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Is an article on Alpha really neccesary at this point? Maybe, if God forbids, it wrecks havoc on Hispaniola but at it present state I do not see the need. Only thing is it's the only storm to use a greek letter but that's it. tdwuhs
I oppose an article. Most of the information is in the 2005 article anyway. What more could be added without making it too long. Heck, the summary for Katrina is longer than the entire Alpha article. No offense to Hispaniola, but any storm it seems can cause major damage there. A tropical wave early last year caused 2000 deaths. What about other storms that caused more than 25 deaths? Should Bret from 1993, a tropical storm, get its own article because it killed 184 people in Venezuela? What about Gert that killed 76 in the same year? Isabel in 1985 for killing 180 in Puerto Rico? Beryl in 1982 for killing 115 in the Cape Verdes? Tropical Storms and Hurricanes are deadly, but an article isn't needed for every storm that killed 22 or so people. Sure, it is important now, but in the long run, it will seem like any other storm. It is noteworthy for being the first Greek storm ever by running out of names, but if you look at the storm at itself, it isn't very important. I vote for no article split. Hurricanehink 02:17, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Why doesn't the article have an infobox? Well, one problem is (amazingly) it seems impossible to find a season track map. But nonetheless I think this infobox should be added. Jdorje 19:37, 25 October 2005 (UTC) {{infobox hurricane season nopic|basin=Atlantic hurricane |first storm formed=[[June 9]], [[2005]] |last storm dissipated= |strongest storm=[[Hurricane Wilma|Wilma]] - 882 [[mbar]], 175 [[mph]] |total storms=22 (Record) |major storms=6 |total damages=estimated over $100 billion [[USD]] (Record) |total fatalities=2,500+ confirmed |five seasons=[[2003 Atlantic hurricane season|2003]], [[2004 Atlantic hurricane season|2004]], '''2005''', [[2006 Atlantic hurricane season|2006]], [[2007 Atlantic hurricane season|2007]]}}
How about a {{SeasonActive}} template of some sort (See here for an example? -- NSLE ( Communicate!) < Contribs> 01:04, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
The strongest storm section should be sepperated into Pressure and Wind Speeds like the other seasons. Fableheroesguild 03:11, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Should Tropical Storm Alpha redirect here? There were Subtropical Storms Alpha in 1972 and Alfa in 1973. A disambiguation page would look something like this:
The name Alpha has been used for two subtropical cyclones and one tropical storm in the Atlantic Ocean. It was used to name subtropical storms in 1972 and 1973, and is used to name the first storm in excess of the last name on the basin's list.
In the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season, the list was enhausted and Alpha was used to name the season's 22nd tropical storm:
Should the East Pacific exhaust its list, the Greek Alphabet will be used to name storms in excess of 24. This has never happened. However, the 1983 and 1992 seasons exhausted the list. The 1985 would have exhausted its list, but instead Xina, York and Zelda were added during the season. As the season ended with Hurricane Xina, there would have been a Hurricane Alpha that year. Had there not been X, Y, and Z names in 1992, that season would have had a Tropical Storm Alpha.
PAGASA and the Southwest Indian Ocean also use annual lists to name tropical cyclones in their areas of responsibility. It is not known if the Greek Alphabet will be used should those lists be exhausted in a season. Miss Michelle | Talk to Michelle 19:54, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
In the progression of each hurricane article, we upload many, many images which will probably never be reused on Wikipedia. For example, after the forecasts are discontinued, we typically have a forecast image page which has been updated many, many times, eating many megabytes of space on the servers. Should we be nice and pick up after ourselves? The currently recommended procedure which would apply in this case would be to list these images on IfD as orphans. Some images actually cause copyright problems when they are orphaned, because the fair use rational no longer apply. For example, Image:Wilma forecast track (Canada).png. The original uploaders cannot speedy them because they were not uploaded accidentally. -- Mm35173 12:48, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Hmmm is it just me, or is this article a veritable orgasm of rankings, records and statistics.... often repeated over and over... with very little actual content, with real meaning? Where is the information to *EXPLAIN* these statistics, rankings and records?
Can someone please explain to me what would count as a separate article? Are the requirements different if the storm lands in America as opposed to a non-english country (seeing as this is en.wikipedia)? If so what are the different requirements for that? I make this point only because I take note that Opehlia did 2 ... 3 fatalities while both Jose and Alpha killed more than her. Why is it that despite the higher fatalities and the scarier possibilities (both landed in places that could see mudslides), Ophelia has an article all of her own and even some people saying she would have a better chance at being retired than Jose or Alpha? -- SargeAbernathy 07:38, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
The only way Ophelia will be retired as a name in 2006 is as part of a seven-pack. Considering that the greatest number of names retired in one year is four and we will most likely have Katrina, Rita, Dennis, Stan, and Wilma be retired (and Emily is much more "worthy" of retirement than Ophelia), I seriously doubt that it will happen... particularly considering that Ophelia never had landfall as a hurricane. B.Wind 07:58, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
The main reason for the Ophelia article: the section got too long on the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season page. Due to the Internet availability and the high presence of local media information in that region, the information was enough to move it off. Same with Alex (2004). That didn't happen with Alpha or Jose (or Arlene or Cindy, for that matter). Note that some other past storms that don't have articles likely would have them if they formed today with all the information available. CrazyC83 15:31, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Some other storms not retired from 1993-2000 that possibly or likely would have had their own articles if they formed today based on current information available (*indicates article later made):
There are none since 2001 that were in that position.
CrazyC83 15:42, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
On why Alpha deserves its own separate article:
-- Revolución ( talk) 20:14, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Or alternatively which Greek alphabet? If we're talking numbering storms after the moment we ran out, should it be Digamma? Or is it (boringly) Zeta? 82.36.26.229 21:29, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Can we take a poll on how we can the alignment of the pictures to be so we can get it over with. Please state if you like then on the:
Left:
Right:
Alternating Left and Right:
Makes no difference:
Comments:
As talked about at Talk:2005_Atlantic_hurricane_season/October#Hurricane_Vince, we might want to put a better picture on the page.... The current one is low-contrast and a little blurry. However, as I don't know how to work with images well, I'll defer to the rest of you to decide which image to use and how to put it in the article. AySz88^ - ^ 05:43, 29 October 2005 (UTC)-- WolFox 04:44, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Apologies for making an edit without discussing it first, and I admit I may be alone in thinking this, but nonetheless I am somewhat offended by this article's opening line, "Early indications were for a very active season, and these expectations have been borne out." Obviously, early in the season, such cautious wording was commendable, but now that this season has officially broken nearly every Atlantic record, caused a hundred billion dollars in damages, and killed nearly three thousand people, it comes across as a poor attempt at ironic understatement. Serendipodous 13:46, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
I think we should have a rule (or more) for new tropical cyclone articles. Maybe something along the lines of "Only if the hurricane reaches Category 3+ and makes landfall" or "Only if the tropical cyclone's death toll exceeds x". I think this would stop the constant arguing on wether to keep a page or not (such as Tropical Storm Alpha). Do you think this is a good idea? - Tcwd (talk) 13:51, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
There are really two rules for gaining its own article:
Why isn't there a separate artical on Hurricane Beta?-- Akako | ☎ 14:03, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Beta probably will get an article - possibly later tonight - but I'm waiting for it to strengthen some more. At least wait for it to get up to Category 2 or a Category 3 landfall forecast. I'd say by the 11:00 pm advisory, the time will come. (Although if someone jumps the gun - not recommending it - I won't redirect it back, I'll build it up) Also, neither the Ophelia nor the Vince articles were made with the storm yet to have effects on land... CrazyC83 21:03, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | → | Archive 15 |
Is an article on Alpha really neccesary at this point? Maybe, if God forbids, it wrecks havoc on Hispaniola but at it present state I do not see the need. Only thing is it's the only storm to use a greek letter but that's it. tdwuhs
I oppose an article. Most of the information is in the 2005 article anyway. What more could be added without making it too long. Heck, the summary for Katrina is longer than the entire Alpha article. No offense to Hispaniola, but any storm it seems can cause major damage there. A tropical wave early last year caused 2000 deaths. What about other storms that caused more than 25 deaths? Should Bret from 1993, a tropical storm, get its own article because it killed 184 people in Venezuela? What about Gert that killed 76 in the same year? Isabel in 1985 for killing 180 in Puerto Rico? Beryl in 1982 for killing 115 in the Cape Verdes? Tropical Storms and Hurricanes are deadly, but an article isn't needed for every storm that killed 22 or so people. Sure, it is important now, but in the long run, it will seem like any other storm. It is noteworthy for being the first Greek storm ever by running out of names, but if you look at the storm at itself, it isn't very important. I vote for no article split. Hurricanehink 02:17, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Why doesn't the article have an infobox? Well, one problem is (amazingly) it seems impossible to find a season track map. But nonetheless I think this infobox should be added. Jdorje 19:37, 25 October 2005 (UTC) {{infobox hurricane season nopic|basin=Atlantic hurricane |first storm formed=[[June 9]], [[2005]] |last storm dissipated= |strongest storm=[[Hurricane Wilma|Wilma]] - 882 [[mbar]], 175 [[mph]] |total storms=22 (Record) |major storms=6 |total damages=estimated over $100 billion [[USD]] (Record) |total fatalities=2,500+ confirmed |five seasons=[[2003 Atlantic hurricane season|2003]], [[2004 Atlantic hurricane season|2004]], '''2005''', [[2006 Atlantic hurricane season|2006]], [[2007 Atlantic hurricane season|2007]]}}
How about a {{SeasonActive}} template of some sort (See here for an example? -- NSLE ( Communicate!) < Contribs> 01:04, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
The strongest storm section should be sepperated into Pressure and Wind Speeds like the other seasons. Fableheroesguild 03:11, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Should Tropical Storm Alpha redirect here? There were Subtropical Storms Alpha in 1972 and Alfa in 1973. A disambiguation page would look something like this:
The name Alpha has been used for two subtropical cyclones and one tropical storm in the Atlantic Ocean. It was used to name subtropical storms in 1972 and 1973, and is used to name the first storm in excess of the last name on the basin's list.
In the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season, the list was enhausted and Alpha was used to name the season's 22nd tropical storm:
Should the East Pacific exhaust its list, the Greek Alphabet will be used to name storms in excess of 24. This has never happened. However, the 1983 and 1992 seasons exhausted the list. The 1985 would have exhausted its list, but instead Xina, York and Zelda were added during the season. As the season ended with Hurricane Xina, there would have been a Hurricane Alpha that year. Had there not been X, Y, and Z names in 1992, that season would have had a Tropical Storm Alpha.
PAGASA and the Southwest Indian Ocean also use annual lists to name tropical cyclones in their areas of responsibility. It is not known if the Greek Alphabet will be used should those lists be exhausted in a season. Miss Michelle | Talk to Michelle 19:54, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
In the progression of each hurricane article, we upload many, many images which will probably never be reused on Wikipedia. For example, after the forecasts are discontinued, we typically have a forecast image page which has been updated many, many times, eating many megabytes of space on the servers. Should we be nice and pick up after ourselves? The currently recommended procedure which would apply in this case would be to list these images on IfD as orphans. Some images actually cause copyright problems when they are orphaned, because the fair use rational no longer apply. For example, Image:Wilma forecast track (Canada).png. The original uploaders cannot speedy them because they were not uploaded accidentally. -- Mm35173 12:48, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
Hmmm is it just me, or is this article a veritable orgasm of rankings, records and statistics.... often repeated over and over... with very little actual content, with real meaning? Where is the information to *EXPLAIN* these statistics, rankings and records?
Can someone please explain to me what would count as a separate article? Are the requirements different if the storm lands in America as opposed to a non-english country (seeing as this is en.wikipedia)? If so what are the different requirements for that? I make this point only because I take note that Opehlia did 2 ... 3 fatalities while both Jose and Alpha killed more than her. Why is it that despite the higher fatalities and the scarier possibilities (both landed in places that could see mudslides), Ophelia has an article all of her own and even some people saying she would have a better chance at being retired than Jose or Alpha? -- SargeAbernathy 07:38, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
The only way Ophelia will be retired as a name in 2006 is as part of a seven-pack. Considering that the greatest number of names retired in one year is four and we will most likely have Katrina, Rita, Dennis, Stan, and Wilma be retired (and Emily is much more "worthy" of retirement than Ophelia), I seriously doubt that it will happen... particularly considering that Ophelia never had landfall as a hurricane. B.Wind 07:58, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
The main reason for the Ophelia article: the section got too long on the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season page. Due to the Internet availability and the high presence of local media information in that region, the information was enough to move it off. Same with Alex (2004). That didn't happen with Alpha or Jose (or Arlene or Cindy, for that matter). Note that some other past storms that don't have articles likely would have them if they formed today with all the information available. CrazyC83 15:31, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Some other storms not retired from 1993-2000 that possibly or likely would have had their own articles if they formed today based on current information available (*indicates article later made):
There are none since 2001 that were in that position.
CrazyC83 15:42, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
On why Alpha deserves its own separate article:
-- Revolución ( talk) 20:14, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Or alternatively which Greek alphabet? If we're talking numbering storms after the moment we ran out, should it be Digamma? Or is it (boringly) Zeta? 82.36.26.229 21:29, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
Can we take a poll on how we can the alignment of the pictures to be so we can get it over with. Please state if you like then on the:
Left:
Right:
Alternating Left and Right:
Makes no difference:
Comments:
As talked about at Talk:2005_Atlantic_hurricane_season/October#Hurricane_Vince, we might want to put a better picture on the page.... The current one is low-contrast and a little blurry. However, as I don't know how to work with images well, I'll defer to the rest of you to decide which image to use and how to put it in the article. AySz88^ - ^ 05:43, 29 October 2005 (UTC)-- WolFox 04:44, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Apologies for making an edit without discussing it first, and I admit I may be alone in thinking this, but nonetheless I am somewhat offended by this article's opening line, "Early indications were for a very active season, and these expectations have been borne out." Obviously, early in the season, such cautious wording was commendable, but now that this season has officially broken nearly every Atlantic record, caused a hundred billion dollars in damages, and killed nearly three thousand people, it comes across as a poor attempt at ironic understatement. Serendipodous 13:46, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
I think we should have a rule (or more) for new tropical cyclone articles. Maybe something along the lines of "Only if the hurricane reaches Category 3+ and makes landfall" or "Only if the tropical cyclone's death toll exceeds x". I think this would stop the constant arguing on wether to keep a page or not (such as Tropical Storm Alpha). Do you think this is a good idea? - Tcwd (talk) 13:51, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
There are really two rules for gaining its own article:
Why isn't there a separate artical on Hurricane Beta?-- Akako | ☎ 14:03, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
Beta probably will get an article - possibly later tonight - but I'm waiting for it to strengthen some more. At least wait for it to get up to Category 2 or a Category 3 landfall forecast. I'd say by the 11:00 pm advisory, the time will come. (Although if someone jumps the gun - not recommending it - I won't redirect it back, I'll build it up) Also, neither the Ophelia nor the Vince articles were made with the storm yet to have effects on land... CrazyC83 21:03, 29 October 2005 (UTC)