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Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
Should the word falsely be included in the first sentence of the lead? soibangla ( talk) 09:08, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
the indisputable proof that caught the mules in the act of rigging the electiontells me you haven't actually read the article. The movie is farcically moronic. soibangla ( talk) 16:59, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
Back-and-forth with various IP sox of Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Makofakeoh. -- Tamzin cetacean needed (she|they|xe) 23:33, 2 July 2022 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
References
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Representing opinions as facts is the very first listed contravention of WP:NPOV policy:Avoid using book reviews as reliable sources for the topics covered in the book. A book review is intended to be an independent review of the book, the author, and related writing issues, not a secondary source for the topics covered within the book.
— Guarapiranga ☎ 00:21, 2 June 2022 (UTC)Avoid stating opinions as facts. Usually, articles will contain information about the significant opinions that have been expressed about their subjects. However, these opinions should not be stated in Wikipedia's voice. Rather, they should be attributed in the text to particular sources, or where justified, described as widespread views, etc. For example, an article should not state that " genocide is an evil action" but may state that "genocide has been described by John So-and-so as the epitome of human evil."
Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Makofakeoh. (Unreplied-to comment hatted rather than removed because it is referenced by Muboshgu below.) -- Tamzin cetacean needed (she|they|xe) 23:33, 2 July 2022 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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makes unsubstantiated allegationsimplies that they could be accurate, they just haven't been substantiated. – Muboshgu ( talk) 19:24, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
References
that unnamed nonprofit organizations paid Democrat-aligned "mules" to illegally collect and deposit ballots into drop boxes in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin during the 2020 presidential electionis false. I don't think they say that, so I don't think the current wording is appropriate. The cited sources do say that this specific claim is unproven, and characterize many other claims put forward by the movie as false (eg. claims to have proven anything), but they do not appear to say this specific claim is false. In contrast to the current wording, an alternative such as
falsely claims to prove that unnamed nonprofit organizations...would accurately reflect the cited sources.
that unnamed nonprofit organizations paid Democrat-aligned "mules" to illegally collect and deposit ballots into drop boxes in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin during the 2020 presidential electionis false (or "impossibly untrue"). Could you back up your claims and provide one? Fiwec81618 ( talk) 00:48, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
“The entirety of the claim rests on cell phone location data, which doesn’t remotely show that people were actually using the drop boxes (it doesn’t have the granularity to show that, as opposed to just walking or even driving by),” said Kenneth R Mayer, Professor of Political Science at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, who spoke to Reuters via email.
The entirety of the claim rests on...which doesn’t remotely show...) say that the claim is unproven, rather than that it is false. It very likely is false, but to say so in the article we need a reliable source saying this, and cannot rely on your opinion. The words unproven and false do not mean the same thing, and to take them as equivalents as your reply appears to suggest is sloppy and simply wrong. Fiwec81618 ( talk) 19:27, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Back-and-forth with various IP sox of Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Makofakeoh. -- Tamzin cetacean needed (she|they|xe) 23:33, 2 July 2022 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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thoroughly debunked...from the Salt Lake Tribune. I also agree that the quotes provided in another comment by an IP editor from AZ Mirror, Atlanta Civic Circle, and Colorado Newsline support the usage of falsely as well, though I am unsure of the reliability of these sources for unattributed statements of fact. But I've looked quite a few times now and just do not see where the currently cited AP and Politifact pieces support such usage, or where in other RS this is done. Fiwec81618 ( talk) 01:27, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
the wording in those sources do clearly support "falsely claim", but I honestly haven't found such text. Why stonewall a simple request for quotes if what you say is true?
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
Should the word falsely be included in the first sentence of the lead? soibangla ( talk) 09:08, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
the indisputable proof that caught the mules in the act of rigging the electiontells me you haven't actually read the article. The movie is farcically moronic. soibangla ( talk) 16:59, 16 July 2022 (UTC)
Back-and-forth with various IP sox of Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Makofakeoh. -- Tamzin cetacean needed (she|they|xe) 23:33, 2 July 2022 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
References
|
Representing opinions as facts is the very first listed contravention of WP:NPOV policy:Avoid using book reviews as reliable sources for the topics covered in the book. A book review is intended to be an independent review of the book, the author, and related writing issues, not a secondary source for the topics covered within the book.
— Guarapiranga ☎ 00:21, 2 June 2022 (UTC)Avoid stating opinions as facts. Usually, articles will contain information about the significant opinions that have been expressed about their subjects. However, these opinions should not be stated in Wikipedia's voice. Rather, they should be attributed in the text to particular sources, or where justified, described as widespread views, etc. For example, an article should not state that " genocide is an evil action" but may state that "genocide has been described by John So-and-so as the epitome of human evil."
Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Makofakeoh. (Unreplied-to comment hatted rather than removed because it is referenced by Muboshgu below.) -- Tamzin cetacean needed (she|they|xe) 23:33, 2 July 2022 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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makes unsubstantiated allegationsimplies that they could be accurate, they just haven't been substantiated. – Muboshgu ( talk) 19:24, 2 June 2022 (UTC)
References
that unnamed nonprofit organizations paid Democrat-aligned "mules" to illegally collect and deposit ballots into drop boxes in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin during the 2020 presidential electionis false. I don't think they say that, so I don't think the current wording is appropriate. The cited sources do say that this specific claim is unproven, and characterize many other claims put forward by the movie as false (eg. claims to have proven anything), but they do not appear to say this specific claim is false. In contrast to the current wording, an alternative such as
falsely claims to prove that unnamed nonprofit organizations...would accurately reflect the cited sources.
that unnamed nonprofit organizations paid Democrat-aligned "mules" to illegally collect and deposit ballots into drop boxes in Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin during the 2020 presidential electionis false (or "impossibly untrue"). Could you back up your claims and provide one? Fiwec81618 ( talk) 00:48, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
“The entirety of the claim rests on cell phone location data, which doesn’t remotely show that people were actually using the drop boxes (it doesn’t have the granularity to show that, as opposed to just walking or even driving by),” said Kenneth R Mayer, Professor of Political Science at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, who spoke to Reuters via email.
The entirety of the claim rests on...which doesn’t remotely show...) say that the claim is unproven, rather than that it is false. It very likely is false, but to say so in the article we need a reliable source saying this, and cannot rely on your opinion. The words unproven and false do not mean the same thing, and to take them as equivalents as your reply appears to suggest is sloppy and simply wrong. Fiwec81618 ( talk) 19:27, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Back-and-forth with various IP sox of Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Makofakeoh. -- Tamzin cetacean needed (she|they|xe) 23:33, 2 July 2022 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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thoroughly debunked...from the Salt Lake Tribune. I also agree that the quotes provided in another comment by an IP editor from AZ Mirror, Atlanta Civic Circle, and Colorado Newsline support the usage of falsely as well, though I am unsure of the reliability of these sources for unattributed statements of fact. But I've looked quite a few times now and just do not see where the currently cited AP and Politifact pieces support such usage, or where in other RS this is done. Fiwec81618 ( talk) 01:27, 15 June 2022 (UTC)
the wording in those sources do clearly support "falsely claim", but I honestly haven't found such text. Why stonewall a simple request for quotes if what you say is true?