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Too many wrong, unsubstansiated and uncited claims. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.17.7.124 ( talk) 00:21, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
The Tebbutt Commission was held two weeks after the Bophuthatswana coup in 1994 and it reported on the events - purely an investigation, nothing to do with prosecution or amnesty. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission was held four years later, in 1998-1999. The Truth Commission didn't prosecute people - it allowed people to apply for amnesty, which Menyatsoe did. His application was opposed by the families, but he was granted amnesty. This was fairly normal. Amnesty went both ways: in other cases, AWB members were also granted amnesty for crimes. Zaian 19:40, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
By the who were the three men, I know that they were from Naboomspruit, but was it Wolfaardt, the elderly man with the beard, who got out and said, "We need an ambulance" or was Wolfaardt the one against the car tyre? I'm pretty sure that Fourie was the half- dead guy lying on the floor but I can't clarify of the other two which one was Uys and which one was Wolfaardt.
P.S.
Sorry to bother you on this issue but you seem to have an abundance of knowledge do you have any idea of who the 3 people killed in the Battle of Ventersdorp were, I've looked everywhere but I can't get names, the Bang Bang Club book covers the Bop Coup but not the Ventersdorp incident so if you know the names please add them to the article.
BOV1993 20:47, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I think the Merc might be cream or white rather than blue. Yes Wolfaardt was the beared AWB member. -- maxrspct ping me 19:24, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
The re-incorporation of Bop was not a consequence of the coup. It was going to happen regardless. Were the 3 AWB members killed by Bop Police or Army? The article says Army in the intro and Police further down. Roger ( talk) 16:05, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
I've seen a youtube clip where he or someone else says "I could kill you in one moment" but tis is neither in the Bang Bang Club book or in TRC report. I have not seen the latest quote - 'why don't bring your own ambulance" anywhere before. The "what are you doing in my country" is in various books and websites but not in that clip i saw on youtube, which is in itself not referenceable. I am looking for further references. - maxrspct ping me 11:08, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
Somebody re-read the introduction and check the wording. It makes it sound like Bophutatswana's army engaged in mutiny and this mutiny was supported by the AVF. The article later states that Mangope asked the AVF for help in suppressing said mutiny. One of these claims must be wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.172.184.105 ( talk) 21:50, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Seb az86556 ( talk) 22:57, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
The killing of Wolfaardt, Uys, and Fourie was clearly murder. Their murderer was charged. The article appears to downplay this to "killing". It makes no reference to others trying to stop the murder, or to the charges laid afterwards. The reference to passengers as "gunmen" is also misleading. There is no evidence anyone in this vehicle had used a firearm. Royalcourtier ( talk) 01:23, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
There was no invasion. This word should be removed from the text. Royalcourtier ( talk) 01:26, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
It is stated that Wolfaardt was a "another gunman". But there was no evidence that these men were firing at anything. Royalcourtier ( talk) 06:25, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
This article is entirely about events of a couple of days. It cannot be called a conflict. It also cannot be said that the result was "Opposition-SADF victory. Removal and abolition of Lucas Mangope's regime. Disestablishment of Bantustan". Those are far too profound, and did not result from this one event. Royalcourtier ( talk) 06:32, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: NO CONSENSUS. ( non-admin closure) There has been no discussion for a while, even after it was relisted, and all three people who commented here suggested different names. KSF T C 16:40, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
Bophuthatswana conflict (1994) → ? – Was the event a "coup d'état" or a "conflict"? If the former, the title should be
Bophuthatswana coup d'état, which I prefer over
Bophuthatswana coup d'état (1994) or
Bophuthatswana coup d'état of 1994. Otherwise, remove "(1994)" as there are no other notable events of the same name. As I can see, the incident lasted a few days or less. If neither "coup d'état" or "conflict", another name must be used.
George Ho (
talk) 10:13, 13 December 2016 (UTC) --Relisting.
JudgeRM
(talk to me) 01:42, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: move to 1994 Bophuthatswana crisis.( non-admin closure) -- Dane talk 00:15, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
Bophuthatswana conflict (1994) →
Bophuthatswana crisis (1994) – Or
Bophuthatswana Crisis (1994). In the previous RM, the consensus agreed to change from "conflict" to "crisis". However, the RM was closed as "no consensus", despite favoring the change. Main reason was changing the format of the title from "<event> (<year>)
" to something like "<event> of <year>
" or "<year> <event>
". Unless changing the format is favored strongly, the current title format should be used by default. Meanwhile, let's change from "conflict" to "crisis" already.
George Ho (
talk) 21:57, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
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Too many wrong, unsubstansiated and uncited claims. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.17.7.124 ( talk) 00:21, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
The Tebbutt Commission was held two weeks after the Bophuthatswana coup in 1994 and it reported on the events - purely an investigation, nothing to do with prosecution or amnesty. The Truth and Reconciliation Commission was held four years later, in 1998-1999. The Truth Commission didn't prosecute people - it allowed people to apply for amnesty, which Menyatsoe did. His application was opposed by the families, but he was granted amnesty. This was fairly normal. Amnesty went both ways: in other cases, AWB members were also granted amnesty for crimes. Zaian 19:40, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
By the who were the three men, I know that they were from Naboomspruit, but was it Wolfaardt, the elderly man with the beard, who got out and said, "We need an ambulance" or was Wolfaardt the one against the car tyre? I'm pretty sure that Fourie was the half- dead guy lying on the floor but I can't clarify of the other two which one was Uys and which one was Wolfaardt.
P.S.
Sorry to bother you on this issue but you seem to have an abundance of knowledge do you have any idea of who the 3 people killed in the Battle of Ventersdorp were, I've looked everywhere but I can't get names, the Bang Bang Club book covers the Bop Coup but not the Ventersdorp incident so if you know the names please add them to the article.
BOV1993 20:47, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I think the Merc might be cream or white rather than blue. Yes Wolfaardt was the beared AWB member. -- maxrspct ping me 19:24, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
The re-incorporation of Bop was not a consequence of the coup. It was going to happen regardless. Were the 3 AWB members killed by Bop Police or Army? The article says Army in the intro and Police further down. Roger ( talk) 16:05, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
I've seen a youtube clip where he or someone else says "I could kill you in one moment" but tis is neither in the Bang Bang Club book or in TRC report. I have not seen the latest quote - 'why don't bring your own ambulance" anywhere before. The "what are you doing in my country" is in various books and websites but not in that clip i saw on youtube, which is in itself not referenceable. I am looking for further references. - maxrspct ping me 11:08, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
Somebody re-read the introduction and check the wording. It makes it sound like Bophutatswana's army engaged in mutiny and this mutiny was supported by the AVF. The article later states that Mangope asked the AVF for help in suppressing said mutiny. One of these claims must be wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.172.184.105 ( talk) 21:50, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Seb az86556 ( talk) 22:57, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
The killing of Wolfaardt, Uys, and Fourie was clearly murder. Their murderer was charged. The article appears to downplay this to "killing". It makes no reference to others trying to stop the murder, or to the charges laid afterwards. The reference to passengers as "gunmen" is also misleading. There is no evidence anyone in this vehicle had used a firearm. Royalcourtier ( talk) 01:23, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
There was no invasion. This word should be removed from the text. Royalcourtier ( talk) 01:26, 20 December 2014 (UTC)
It is stated that Wolfaardt was a "another gunman". But there was no evidence that these men were firing at anything. Royalcourtier ( talk) 06:25, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
This article is entirely about events of a couple of days. It cannot be called a conflict. It also cannot be said that the result was "Opposition-SADF victory. Removal and abolition of Lucas Mangope's regime. Disestablishment of Bantustan". Those are far too profound, and did not result from this one event. Royalcourtier ( talk) 06:32, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Bophuthatswana conflict (1994). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 02:11, 6 November 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: NO CONSENSUS. ( non-admin closure) There has been no discussion for a while, even after it was relisted, and all three people who commented here suggested different names. KSF T C 16:40, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
Bophuthatswana conflict (1994) → ? – Was the event a "coup d'état" or a "conflict"? If the former, the title should be
Bophuthatswana coup d'état, which I prefer over
Bophuthatswana coup d'état (1994) or
Bophuthatswana coup d'état of 1994. Otherwise, remove "(1994)" as there are no other notable events of the same name. As I can see, the incident lasted a few days or less. If neither "coup d'état" or "conflict", another name must be used.
George Ho (
talk) 10:13, 13 December 2016 (UTC) --Relisting.
JudgeRM
(talk to me) 01:42, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: move to 1994 Bophuthatswana crisis.( non-admin closure) -- Dane talk 00:15, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
Bophuthatswana conflict (1994) →
Bophuthatswana crisis (1994) – Or
Bophuthatswana Crisis (1994). In the previous RM, the consensus agreed to change from "conflict" to "crisis". However, the RM was closed as "no consensus", despite favoring the change. Main reason was changing the format of the title from "<event> (<year>)
" to something like "<event> of <year>
" or "<year> <event>
". Unless changing the format is favored strongly, the current title format should be used by default. Meanwhile, let's change from "conflict" to "crisis" already.
George Ho (
talk) 21:57, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on 1994 Bophuthatswana crisis. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:51, 16 June 2017 (UTC)