This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
1966 FIFA World Cup final article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
There is a request, submitted by WikiHmmmm... ( talk), for an audio version of this article to be created. For further information, see WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia. The rationale behind the request is: "most watched event in British history. Arguably Britains most important sporting achievement ever". |
Did the royal wedding or queen's jubilee or something overtake it as the most watched event? must've done by now — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.148.212.193 ( talk) 11:48, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
On this web page, there is two different dates of the final, one in july and one in august, when was this match played?
What do the rules say about fans entering the pitch?
I'd like to identify all the players in the famous photo. I think they are (left to right):
Jackie Charlton (top left), Nobby Stiles? (bottom left), Gordon Banks, Alan Ball, Martin Peters?, Geoff Hurst, Bobby Moore, George Cohen?, Ray Wilson?, Bobby Charlton.
Can anyone confirm? -- Auximines 13:19, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Moved per consensus. -- Pkchan 13:53, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm finding it hard to cite that many people consider the fourth goal controversial. Wouldn't it come under the (admittedly slippery) category of common sense, when viewed alongside the relevant rule that I already quoted? FWIW I have always heard other Scots regard it as controversial; of course, you may not regard Scots as neutrals in this instance! -- Guinnog 10:35, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
The article currently says "Allowing the fourth goal to stand, although it was scored as a pitch invasion was in progress, was, like the award of the third goal, an example of home advantage. The laws of the game clearly state that the game should be stopped in such circumstances [2]." - This is a clear example of someone trying to push a POV. I haven't looked into the edit history. Jooler 22:02, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Both goals were seen as valid by the officials on the day. The fact that an entire nation who were not there, ad have a history of supporting 'ABE' (anyone but England) object is a pure delight that enhances the fact that we won the game on the day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doctor-Scrumpy ( talk • contribs) 17:12, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for your considered and sensible response. I'll have a think about your suggestions towards improving the article. I may copy them to the article's discussion page as well, so that others can join the discussion. That's how things are improved here in my experience. Thanks again.-- Guinnog 16:43, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't understand the sentence "The laws of the game clearly state that in such circumstances, the game has to be stopped because of outside interference of any kind". That law isn't clear at all. What exactly is "outside interference". Certainly I don't think the pitch invasion could be deemed "outside interference" since thet were nowhere near the ball and both team continued to play as normal.-- 82.6.163.253 15:29, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
I can't think of any football matches with pitch invasions during play period. There is a famous amrican football game called "the play" where that happened and play continued. However I think that's rarther beside the piont. -- Buc 15:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
The question I was aking was not, has it ever happened? it was what the rules means because to me it's unclear.-- Buc 15:52, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
Guinnog you haven't reacted to my comment: How comes the controversial decisions "in England's favour" are mentioned twice and are even given a whole extra paragraph while the decisions in Germany's favour (like the controversial free kick that was awarded and that lead to the 2nd german goal) are not even mentioned? How can this article claim to be fair? You are clearly pushing a POV.
In that case I don't think you can say the fourth goals controversy is notable. I've never heard anyone talk about it till now.-- Buc 15:52, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
I think you need a better sourse than that. As said before the rule seems unclear. Buc 19:49, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
And also as said before it's got nothingh to do with whether play has continued during an invasion in other matches. It's to do with the rule simply not being clear. Buc 09:44, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
(deindent) I would have thought it obvious that a pitch invasion would constitute interference and cannot think of a single other example where a match has been allowed to continue during one. As I said I will try and find a more specific reference though. -- Guinnog 12:58, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
"It seems pretty clear to me." Well it's not. "I would have thought it obvious that a pitch invasion would constitute interference" They were nowhere near the ball. How can they have been interfering. "cannot think of a match has been allowed to continue during one" that doesn't proove asnything. Except that pitch invasions are very rare. Buc 15:44, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
In light of no evidence being produced to suggest that any controversy or complaint arose from the fourth goal, nand am removing this from the paragraph. Jooler 04:35, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm not questioning that there is controversy surrounding the forth goal. But I am going to question the notability of it. Particularly in comparison to the controversy surrounding the third goal. Also the rule regarding it is unclear. What exactly is “outside interference of any kind”? To me for a pitch invasion to be interfering the fans involved have to either but in an area of the field close to the ball, be making physical contact with a player or distract a player to stop playing. None of these were the case in 1966. Buc 16:41, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Seems to me that there were a number of questionable refereeing decisions made in the game - the big difference between the two sides is the England made the most of their good fortune, whilst West Germany wasted their opportunities.
Paul-b4 (
talk) 13:02, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
This article is one of thousands on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message here, on this talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material that violates someones copyright. If you are not sure if the link on this article should be removed, feel free to ask me on my talk page and I'll review it personally. Thanks. --- J.S ( t| c) 06:46, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
The image Image:GB World Cup Overprint Stamp.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --22:06, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
I have removed the reference to Joao Havelange's accusations of match fixing, as there is a general consensus that Goal.com is not a reliable source, and also that Havelange's comments are heavily biased (he seems to think that the only tournaments that were fixed were ones that Brazil didn't win!) – Pee Jay 13:58, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Hi. I don't think it is correct to remove such accusations. Joao Havelange was FIFA President, and when he accuses England and Germany of match fixing, such a notation should not be removed because someone says 'Eh, he is biased anyway'. Jonathan0007 ( talk) 23:56, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
I have no idea how to make pictures on here, but every source I've ever read, and the classic England side on Pro-Evo claims the "Wingless Wonders" as a 4-4-2 formation, not a 4-3-3 formation, the 4-3-3 formation was very common back then. The modern useage of the word "winger" in England is very different to how it is round the world, and how it as in England back then. Nowadays, in England it is used for wide midfielders, rather than wide forwards. It should be more like a modern day diamond formation, but with not so much as a gap between Charlton and Ball/Peters.
Here are just a few sources saying so: http://www.fifa.com/newscentre/news/newsid=510253.html http://www.englandcaps.co.uk/AlfRamsey19631974.html http://www.nationalfootballmuseum.com/pages/fame/Inductees/siralframsey.htm http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Midfielder
The current picture shows England lining up as a 4-3-3 as follows:
Banks
Cohen J Charlton Moore Wilson
Stiles B Charlton Peters
Ball Hurst Hunt
But it should be a 4-4-2 more like this:
Banks
Cohen J Charlton Moore Wilson
Stiles
Ball Peters B Charlton
Hurst Hunt —Preceding unsigned comment added by MIR17 ( talk • contribs) 14:01, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
OK, thanks to whoever changed it. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
MIR17 (
talk •
contribs) 21:05, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
Just bought the book The Importance of Being Trivial and a factoid says that if the match would have ended 2-2 after 120 minutes the game would have been decided by the toss of a coin. There were several European Cup ties settled that way during the 60s so its a distinct possiblity, however the article says there would have been a replay. Anyone with the match programme or similar source that could clarify? EDIT: perhaps it would have been the replay that would have been decided by coin toss? Seedybob2 ( talk) 20:36, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Yes, there would have been a replay. And if that replay would have again ended in a draw, there would most likely have been a coin toss. I say "most likely", because, although there WAS at least one club-level european cup decided that way, it has never been put to a test in a World Cup final (and it's good that it came out this way :-) ). red ( talk) 00:10, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
Schnellinger's hand never touched the ball in the 90th minute. The third goal never was a. And the fourth goal also was irregular. If someone red this article he may coul think that England nearly won by "4-1" or something like that. That Students say "6cm left for a goal" cannot be... . So Schnellinger's "hand-ball" wasn't controversial too and during the last goal were lots of people on the field. So I think this article needs to be edited!!! The best is to wtach this video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvxVGMOgmcU 82.149.182.151 ( talk) 17:08, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
As an American I have a personal recollection that would be a worthwhile addition to this article, if someone can verify the details.
I watched the 1966 final in the U.S. on a live satellite feed. I believe it was televised by ABC as part of their "Wide World of Sports" show. As I recall, the significance of this is that it was the first time a sporting event was carried live via satellite on American television. In addition it was the first time a World Cup match was ever shown on American television. What made this memorable for me (I was in high school at the time and had never before seen a soccer match) was that when the game went into extra time, ABC switched to its regularly scheduled programming! As it was later explained in the media, ABC had only purchased satellite time for a regulation 90 minutes of game time. Since no World Cup final had ever gone into extra time, they had not bothered to make (or perhaps could not afford) contingency plans. The result was that "Wide World of Sports" abruptly went off the air after England tied the score 2-2, leaving the audience hanging. In an era when soccer was on the radar screen of very few Americans, I was unable to learn how the Final turned out until seeing the result in the next day's newspaper.
Simdav ( talk) 17:06, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
-- JeffGBot ( talk) 13:19, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
-- JeffGBot ( talk) 13:20, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi. There has never been a country named West Germany, i know it was colloquial language in foreign media to call the Federal Republic of Germany "West Germany", but this usage of words is surely no phrasing worthy of an encyclopaedic article, and it also lacks understanding of German history. Since disclosure seems necessary here: I'm from Germany, born in the German Democratic Republic or "East Germany" that is. I will however change "West Germany" to "Germany", because since 1900 until today, the governing body that has declared to represent all Germans in the DFB, the exact organisation that fielded the 1966-team, and the country and its institutions are the same as today, since from the eastern territories that joined the Federal Republic of Germany in 1990 no institutions or laws were inherited. And in the 1966-team - as well as in every other German lineup - men from the eastern territories of Germany were eligible to play, if only they were able to leave the then comunist country. In conclusion: Country is the same, governing body is the same, players eligible the same, name should be the same, and i think nobody thinks the Federal Republic of Germany should be called "West Germany" today. I hope nobody disagrees with this change, but if so, feel invited to join this discussion-posting. Greetings, Jonathan. Jonathan0007 ( talk) 00:18, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
Hi, thanks for your thoughts. I have to disagree about your disambiguity-argument. You say "Germany" can refer to either "West Germany" or "East Germany". This is - as I already stated - simply not correct, since there never was a country named "West Germany" and there never was a country named "East Germany", they were called those names in foreign media for simplicity reasons, as the "Federal Republic of Germany" was part of the western capitalist world or first world, while the "German Democratic Republic" was part of Eastern bloc, or second world. Still this is not the correct term for the country, and is therefore no phrasing for an encyclopaedia. It is colloquial language that saves time, but still this doesn't make it the correct term. I do not make up names or use other possibly derogatory terms for other countries, and therefore would prefer, if wikipaedia articles are kept in a neutral tone too. So if there is really confusion to avoid, then the only correct way to do so, is to use the complete names of the country, and not some popular slang. To be honest, i didn't think there would be a confusion, and someone might think this final was between the German Democratic Republic and England, and not between the Federal Republic of Germany and England (since the German Democratic Republic only participated in one World Cup anyways). But that's probably me knowing already a lot about this topic and forgetting about people that know little about World Cup history, so i might be wrong. But if others do think the distinction is necessary, then please distinguish the teams with the real names of the country and not colloquial language. Finally i want to point out, that the link to Germany National Football Team leads to an article that already explains, that there were temporary governing football associations other than the DFB, so if there really is a confusion which German team this is, a click on the link of the team name will resolve that confusion.
Your second argument is, that "most sources refer to that team as West Germany". That may be right, but is that really the deciding criterion? If i find, that most sources say, that eg Evolution is wrong, and Intelligent Design is right, will that decide the content of a wikipaedia article? I know it's a bad example, and i don't want to provoke a political or offtopic discussion, i just want to make the point that what many people say is not necessarily right. But unlike in discussions about "most sources say Britney Spears is the best singer of all times" this whole thing is not up to taste, political views, scientific surveys, or speculations. It is simply a fact, that the name of the country this team represents is not "West Germany", so it is not right to call the football team that represents this country "West Germany". If you don't believe that this is a fact, then look it up on every government document of the Federal Republic of Germany, the name "West Germany" is never used. And btw: it is not like, there is no source using the proper name of the team. It may not be the majority (i don't know tbh), but i am confident, that i can find a sizeable number of references using the correct term, which will be enough for every passage of this article. German sources use the correct term anyways, i could bombard you with thousands of sources in German language that use "Germany" or "FRG" or "BRD", and not "West Germany". At the end it is the souvereign right of a country to name herself (see also Macedonia vs Greece) and in English the "Bundesrepublik Deutschland" has the official name "Federal Republic of Germany" - or short "Germany" - and has never called herself or referred to herself as "West Germany", or "Federal Republic of West Germany" or any other alteration including geographical terms. And the governing body of German football since 1900, the "Deutscher Fußballbund" which translates into "German Football Association" has never called itself "West German Football Association" or referred to its players as "West Germans". As i have already mentioned above, all Germans were eligble to play, whether they are from east or west or south or north. Even Germans born in other countries are eligible, like Paolo Rink born in Brazil, or Miroslav Klose/Lukas Podolski/Piotr Trochowski born in Poland, or Oliver Neuville born in Switzerland, as long as they have German ancestry.
It is and was the explicit objective of the DFB to represent all Germans. This is exemplified when the Federal Republic of Germany played in eastern Europe, thousands came from the German Democratic Republic to support the team from the other side of the Iron Curtain. They did that even though the German Democratic Republic over time started penalizing people who support the "class enemy" from across the border. Sometimes travel into a country (in the eastern bloc!) was denied for everyone weeks before a game of the DFB-team took place in this country, to keep citizens from the German Democratic Republic away from the stadion and away from cheering for the team of the Federal Republic of Germany. And people who managed to come to the stadion and grab tickets anyways were treated bad by the comunist government. On the DFB matches in Eastern Europe there were always government officials (Stasi-members) who obverved the German fan crowd and took their personal data on record. Those fans were then observed and herassed by the state, they had to suffer various disadvantages, in the comunist system they had the same rank as a former convicted sex criminal. Still throughout history the support for the DFB-team was larger than for the DFV-team (representing the German Democratic Republic), because the DFV-team was always affiliated with opressive socialist regime, and the DFB team was considered the "real" team of free Germany, even during a time when the DFV won the Olympic gold medal (1976). But this only as a little view inside why the DFB objective to represent all Germans is not without validation, even if you take the emotional and historic aspect out of the equation, it is still not appropriate to use the term "West Germany" in an encyclopaedia.
The only question remaining is, if there has to be a distinction between the two teams of DFB and DFV, because the link in the country name is not enough. In the case, that a destinction seems necessary, the name of the country should be used, the name this country has given herself is "Federal Republic of Germany". Also okay would be the name of the governing body: DFB, in English its official name is "German Football Association" (i just looked it up to be sure), but in my taste the name of the country represented is more suitable. Since the DFB (founded in "East German" Leipzig, based in "West German" Frankfurt am Main) has always declared it represents all Germans "Germany" should suffice. In this point I may be biased, beeing a German myself, so if other neutral users opionion is, the DFB does not represent all Germans despite declaring so, then the country name can be used for distinction, and the country name is "Federal Republic of Germany". As i have stated repeatedly now, and explained extensively, besides the simple and short "Germany" this is the only proper term.
Thanks for reading and my apologies for the long text. Greetings Jonathan. Jonathan0007 ( talk) 19:21, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
Way too much British bias is at wikipedia. Time to start cleaning this garbage up.
It's absolutely disguting this behavior is tolerated on wikipedia. The video evidence clearly shows no handball ever occurred. There are tons of video edits of this game and the various aspects of it such as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvxVGMOgmcU which easily shows no handball occurring. repeating a lie over and over does not make a lie true, nor should wikipedia tolerate blatantly false British propaganda on this site. Any other further fairytales will likewise be removed Whatzinaname ( talk) 17:02, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
In the describing of the match, I don't think what later technical measuring says really belong. If the Germans protested at the time, that could be noted. But it counted as a goal then, and still does. The referee thought so, and that's a part of the rules of the game. Hence it was a goal !
I suggest a separate section for the long time aftermath (within this article, but outside the Match summary). There it can be twisted from every possible angle (but this also applies to Maradonna's first goal in the 1986 quarterfinal). There's always an element of possible human errors - of which offside or not, perhaps is the most common. But England did win this final fair and square by the rules - at the time as well as in the history of Football !
Boeing720 (
talk) 02:03, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
What does misheaded mean in this case:
"After 12 minutes, Sigfried Held sent a cross into the English penalty area which Ray Wilson misheaded to Helmut Haller, who got his shot on target."
Google's references generally lead back to this article directly, or indirectly or to casual use in documentation. Stifynsemons ( talk) 03:52, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:1930 FIFA World Cup Final which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 14:31, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
A German player, possibly Karl Heinz Schnellinger, was offside. Stop the video [3] at 1 minute and 13 seconds in and, clear as day, the German player at the far post is, according to the offside Law as it stood in 1966, a good 2 yards offside. I have a still of it but copy/paste from my laptop isn't an option. Hence the video uploaded.
[3] MadAmster ( talk) 14:38, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
1966 FIFA World Cup final article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
There is a request, submitted by WikiHmmmm... ( talk), for an audio version of this article to be created. For further information, see WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia. The rationale behind the request is: "most watched event in British history. Arguably Britains most important sporting achievement ever". |
Did the royal wedding or queen's jubilee or something overtake it as the most watched event? must've done by now — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.148.212.193 ( talk) 11:48, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
On this web page, there is two different dates of the final, one in july and one in august, when was this match played?
What do the rules say about fans entering the pitch?
I'd like to identify all the players in the famous photo. I think they are (left to right):
Jackie Charlton (top left), Nobby Stiles? (bottom left), Gordon Banks, Alan Ball, Martin Peters?, Geoff Hurst, Bobby Moore, George Cohen?, Ray Wilson?, Bobby Charlton.
Can anyone confirm? -- Auximines 13:19, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Moved per consensus. -- Pkchan 13:53, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm finding it hard to cite that many people consider the fourth goal controversial. Wouldn't it come under the (admittedly slippery) category of common sense, when viewed alongside the relevant rule that I already quoted? FWIW I have always heard other Scots regard it as controversial; of course, you may not regard Scots as neutrals in this instance! -- Guinnog 10:35, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
The article currently says "Allowing the fourth goal to stand, although it was scored as a pitch invasion was in progress, was, like the award of the third goal, an example of home advantage. The laws of the game clearly state that the game should be stopped in such circumstances [2]." - This is a clear example of someone trying to push a POV. I haven't looked into the edit history. Jooler 22:02, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Both goals were seen as valid by the officials on the day. The fact that an entire nation who were not there, ad have a history of supporting 'ABE' (anyone but England) object is a pure delight that enhances the fact that we won the game on the day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doctor-Scrumpy ( talk • contribs) 17:12, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for your considered and sensible response. I'll have a think about your suggestions towards improving the article. I may copy them to the article's discussion page as well, so that others can join the discussion. That's how things are improved here in my experience. Thanks again.-- Guinnog 16:43, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't understand the sentence "The laws of the game clearly state that in such circumstances, the game has to be stopped because of outside interference of any kind". That law isn't clear at all. What exactly is "outside interference". Certainly I don't think the pitch invasion could be deemed "outside interference" since thet were nowhere near the ball and both team continued to play as normal.-- 82.6.163.253 15:29, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
I can't think of any football matches with pitch invasions during play period. There is a famous amrican football game called "the play" where that happened and play continued. However I think that's rarther beside the piont. -- Buc 15:38, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
The question I was aking was not, has it ever happened? it was what the rules means because to me it's unclear.-- Buc 15:52, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
Guinnog you haven't reacted to my comment: How comes the controversial decisions "in England's favour" are mentioned twice and are even given a whole extra paragraph while the decisions in Germany's favour (like the controversial free kick that was awarded and that lead to the 2nd german goal) are not even mentioned? How can this article claim to be fair? You are clearly pushing a POV.
In that case I don't think you can say the fourth goals controversy is notable. I've never heard anyone talk about it till now.-- Buc 15:52, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
I think you need a better sourse than that. As said before the rule seems unclear. Buc 19:49, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
And also as said before it's got nothingh to do with whether play has continued during an invasion in other matches. It's to do with the rule simply not being clear. Buc 09:44, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
(deindent) I would have thought it obvious that a pitch invasion would constitute interference and cannot think of a single other example where a match has been allowed to continue during one. As I said I will try and find a more specific reference though. -- Guinnog 12:58, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
"It seems pretty clear to me." Well it's not. "I would have thought it obvious that a pitch invasion would constitute interference" They were nowhere near the ball. How can they have been interfering. "cannot think of a match has been allowed to continue during one" that doesn't proove asnything. Except that pitch invasions are very rare. Buc 15:44, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
In light of no evidence being produced to suggest that any controversy or complaint arose from the fourth goal, nand am removing this from the paragraph. Jooler 04:35, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm not questioning that there is controversy surrounding the forth goal. But I am going to question the notability of it. Particularly in comparison to the controversy surrounding the third goal. Also the rule regarding it is unclear. What exactly is “outside interference of any kind”? To me for a pitch invasion to be interfering the fans involved have to either but in an area of the field close to the ball, be making physical contact with a player or distract a player to stop playing. None of these were the case in 1966. Buc 16:41, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Seems to me that there were a number of questionable refereeing decisions made in the game - the big difference between the two sides is the England made the most of their good fortune, whilst West Germany wasted their opportunities.
Paul-b4 (
talk) 13:02, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
This article is one of thousands on Wikipedia that have a link to YouTube in it. Based on the External links policy, most of these should probably be removed. I'm putting this message here, on this talk page, to request the regular editors take a look at the link and make sure it doesn't violate policy. In short: 1. 99% of the time YouTube should not be used as a source. 2. We must not link to material that violates someones copyright. If you are not sure if the link on this article should be removed, feel free to ask me on my talk page and I'll review it personally. Thanks. --- J.S ( t| c) 06:46, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
The image Image:GB World Cup Overprint Stamp.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --22:06, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
I have removed the reference to Joao Havelange's accusations of match fixing, as there is a general consensus that Goal.com is not a reliable source, and also that Havelange's comments are heavily biased (he seems to think that the only tournaments that were fixed were ones that Brazil didn't win!) – Pee Jay 13:58, 27 February 2009 (UTC)
Hi. I don't think it is correct to remove such accusations. Joao Havelange was FIFA President, and when he accuses England and Germany of match fixing, such a notation should not be removed because someone says 'Eh, he is biased anyway'. Jonathan0007 ( talk) 23:56, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
I have no idea how to make pictures on here, but every source I've ever read, and the classic England side on Pro-Evo claims the "Wingless Wonders" as a 4-4-2 formation, not a 4-3-3 formation, the 4-3-3 formation was very common back then. The modern useage of the word "winger" in England is very different to how it is round the world, and how it as in England back then. Nowadays, in England it is used for wide midfielders, rather than wide forwards. It should be more like a modern day diamond formation, but with not so much as a gap between Charlton and Ball/Peters.
Here are just a few sources saying so: http://www.fifa.com/newscentre/news/newsid=510253.html http://www.englandcaps.co.uk/AlfRamsey19631974.html http://www.nationalfootballmuseum.com/pages/fame/Inductees/siralframsey.htm http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Midfielder
The current picture shows England lining up as a 4-3-3 as follows:
Banks
Cohen J Charlton Moore Wilson
Stiles B Charlton Peters
Ball Hurst Hunt
But it should be a 4-4-2 more like this:
Banks
Cohen J Charlton Moore Wilson
Stiles
Ball Peters B Charlton
Hurst Hunt —Preceding unsigned comment added by MIR17 ( talk • contribs) 14:01, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
OK, thanks to whoever changed it. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
MIR17 (
talk •
contribs) 21:05, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
Just bought the book The Importance of Being Trivial and a factoid says that if the match would have ended 2-2 after 120 minutes the game would have been decided by the toss of a coin. There were several European Cup ties settled that way during the 60s so its a distinct possiblity, however the article says there would have been a replay. Anyone with the match programme or similar source that could clarify? EDIT: perhaps it would have been the replay that would have been decided by coin toss? Seedybob2 ( talk) 20:36, 23 December 2009 (UTC)
Yes, there would have been a replay. And if that replay would have again ended in a draw, there would most likely have been a coin toss. I say "most likely", because, although there WAS at least one club-level european cup decided that way, it has never been put to a test in a World Cup final (and it's good that it came out this way :-) ). red ( talk) 00:10, 12 December 2012 (UTC)
Schnellinger's hand never touched the ball in the 90th minute. The third goal never was a. And the fourth goal also was irregular. If someone red this article he may coul think that England nearly won by "4-1" or something like that. That Students say "6cm left for a goal" cannot be... . So Schnellinger's "hand-ball" wasn't controversial too and during the last goal were lots of people on the field. So I think this article needs to be edited!!! The best is to wtach this video here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvxVGMOgmcU 82.149.182.151 ( talk) 17:08, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
As an American I have a personal recollection that would be a worthwhile addition to this article, if someone can verify the details.
I watched the 1966 final in the U.S. on a live satellite feed. I believe it was televised by ABC as part of their "Wide World of Sports" show. As I recall, the significance of this is that it was the first time a sporting event was carried live via satellite on American television. In addition it was the first time a World Cup match was ever shown on American television. What made this memorable for me (I was in high school at the time and had never before seen a soccer match) was that when the game went into extra time, ABC switched to its regularly scheduled programming! As it was later explained in the media, ABC had only purchased satellite time for a regulation 90 minutes of game time. Since no World Cup final had ever gone into extra time, they had not bothered to make (or perhaps could not afford) contingency plans. The result was that "Wide World of Sports" abruptly went off the air after England tied the score 2-2, leaving the audience hanging. In an era when soccer was on the radar screen of very few Americans, I was unable to learn how the Final turned out until seeing the result in the next day's newspaper.
Simdav ( talk) 17:06, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
-- JeffGBot ( talk) 13:19, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
-- JeffGBot ( talk) 13:20, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi. There has never been a country named West Germany, i know it was colloquial language in foreign media to call the Federal Republic of Germany "West Germany", but this usage of words is surely no phrasing worthy of an encyclopaedic article, and it also lacks understanding of German history. Since disclosure seems necessary here: I'm from Germany, born in the German Democratic Republic or "East Germany" that is. I will however change "West Germany" to "Germany", because since 1900 until today, the governing body that has declared to represent all Germans in the DFB, the exact organisation that fielded the 1966-team, and the country and its institutions are the same as today, since from the eastern territories that joined the Federal Republic of Germany in 1990 no institutions or laws were inherited. And in the 1966-team - as well as in every other German lineup - men from the eastern territories of Germany were eligible to play, if only they were able to leave the then comunist country. In conclusion: Country is the same, governing body is the same, players eligible the same, name should be the same, and i think nobody thinks the Federal Republic of Germany should be called "West Germany" today. I hope nobody disagrees with this change, but if so, feel invited to join this discussion-posting. Greetings, Jonathan. Jonathan0007 ( talk) 00:18, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
Hi, thanks for your thoughts. I have to disagree about your disambiguity-argument. You say "Germany" can refer to either "West Germany" or "East Germany". This is - as I already stated - simply not correct, since there never was a country named "West Germany" and there never was a country named "East Germany", they were called those names in foreign media for simplicity reasons, as the "Federal Republic of Germany" was part of the western capitalist world or first world, while the "German Democratic Republic" was part of Eastern bloc, or second world. Still this is not the correct term for the country, and is therefore no phrasing for an encyclopaedia. It is colloquial language that saves time, but still this doesn't make it the correct term. I do not make up names or use other possibly derogatory terms for other countries, and therefore would prefer, if wikipaedia articles are kept in a neutral tone too. So if there is really confusion to avoid, then the only correct way to do so, is to use the complete names of the country, and not some popular slang. To be honest, i didn't think there would be a confusion, and someone might think this final was between the German Democratic Republic and England, and not between the Federal Republic of Germany and England (since the German Democratic Republic only participated in one World Cup anyways). But that's probably me knowing already a lot about this topic and forgetting about people that know little about World Cup history, so i might be wrong. But if others do think the distinction is necessary, then please distinguish the teams with the real names of the country and not colloquial language. Finally i want to point out, that the link to Germany National Football Team leads to an article that already explains, that there were temporary governing football associations other than the DFB, so if there really is a confusion which German team this is, a click on the link of the team name will resolve that confusion.
Your second argument is, that "most sources refer to that team as West Germany". That may be right, but is that really the deciding criterion? If i find, that most sources say, that eg Evolution is wrong, and Intelligent Design is right, will that decide the content of a wikipaedia article? I know it's a bad example, and i don't want to provoke a political or offtopic discussion, i just want to make the point that what many people say is not necessarily right. But unlike in discussions about "most sources say Britney Spears is the best singer of all times" this whole thing is not up to taste, political views, scientific surveys, or speculations. It is simply a fact, that the name of the country this team represents is not "West Germany", so it is not right to call the football team that represents this country "West Germany". If you don't believe that this is a fact, then look it up on every government document of the Federal Republic of Germany, the name "West Germany" is never used. And btw: it is not like, there is no source using the proper name of the team. It may not be the majority (i don't know tbh), but i am confident, that i can find a sizeable number of references using the correct term, which will be enough for every passage of this article. German sources use the correct term anyways, i could bombard you with thousands of sources in German language that use "Germany" or "FRG" or "BRD", and not "West Germany". At the end it is the souvereign right of a country to name herself (see also Macedonia vs Greece) and in English the "Bundesrepublik Deutschland" has the official name "Federal Republic of Germany" - or short "Germany" - and has never called herself or referred to herself as "West Germany", or "Federal Republic of West Germany" or any other alteration including geographical terms. And the governing body of German football since 1900, the "Deutscher Fußballbund" which translates into "German Football Association" has never called itself "West German Football Association" or referred to its players as "West Germans". As i have already mentioned above, all Germans were eligble to play, whether they are from east or west or south or north. Even Germans born in other countries are eligible, like Paolo Rink born in Brazil, or Miroslav Klose/Lukas Podolski/Piotr Trochowski born in Poland, or Oliver Neuville born in Switzerland, as long as they have German ancestry.
It is and was the explicit objective of the DFB to represent all Germans. This is exemplified when the Federal Republic of Germany played in eastern Europe, thousands came from the German Democratic Republic to support the team from the other side of the Iron Curtain. They did that even though the German Democratic Republic over time started penalizing people who support the "class enemy" from across the border. Sometimes travel into a country (in the eastern bloc!) was denied for everyone weeks before a game of the DFB-team took place in this country, to keep citizens from the German Democratic Republic away from the stadion and away from cheering for the team of the Federal Republic of Germany. And people who managed to come to the stadion and grab tickets anyways were treated bad by the comunist government. On the DFB matches in Eastern Europe there were always government officials (Stasi-members) who obverved the German fan crowd and took their personal data on record. Those fans were then observed and herassed by the state, they had to suffer various disadvantages, in the comunist system they had the same rank as a former convicted sex criminal. Still throughout history the support for the DFB-team was larger than for the DFV-team (representing the German Democratic Republic), because the DFV-team was always affiliated with opressive socialist regime, and the DFB team was considered the "real" team of free Germany, even during a time when the DFV won the Olympic gold medal (1976). But this only as a little view inside why the DFB objective to represent all Germans is not without validation, even if you take the emotional and historic aspect out of the equation, it is still not appropriate to use the term "West Germany" in an encyclopaedia.
The only question remaining is, if there has to be a distinction between the two teams of DFB and DFV, because the link in the country name is not enough. In the case, that a destinction seems necessary, the name of the country should be used, the name this country has given herself is "Federal Republic of Germany". Also okay would be the name of the governing body: DFB, in English its official name is "German Football Association" (i just looked it up to be sure), but in my taste the name of the country represented is more suitable. Since the DFB (founded in "East German" Leipzig, based in "West German" Frankfurt am Main) has always declared it represents all Germans "Germany" should suffice. In this point I may be biased, beeing a German myself, so if other neutral users opionion is, the DFB does not represent all Germans despite declaring so, then the country name can be used for distinction, and the country name is "Federal Republic of Germany". As i have stated repeatedly now, and explained extensively, besides the simple and short "Germany" this is the only proper term.
Thanks for reading and my apologies for the long text. Greetings Jonathan. Jonathan0007 ( talk) 19:21, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
Way too much British bias is at wikipedia. Time to start cleaning this garbage up.
It's absolutely disguting this behavior is tolerated on wikipedia. The video evidence clearly shows no handball ever occurred. There are tons of video edits of this game and the various aspects of it such as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvxVGMOgmcU which easily shows no handball occurring. repeating a lie over and over does not make a lie true, nor should wikipedia tolerate blatantly false British propaganda on this site. Any other further fairytales will likewise be removed Whatzinaname ( talk) 17:02, 22 June 2014 (UTC)
In the describing of the match, I don't think what later technical measuring says really belong. If the Germans protested at the time, that could be noted. But it counted as a goal then, and still does. The referee thought so, and that's a part of the rules of the game. Hence it was a goal !
I suggest a separate section for the long time aftermath (within this article, but outside the Match summary). There it can be twisted from every possible angle (but this also applies to Maradonna's first goal in the 1986 quarterfinal). There's always an element of possible human errors - of which offside or not, perhaps is the most common. But England did win this final fair and square by the rules - at the time as well as in the history of Football !
Boeing720 (
talk) 02:03, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
What does misheaded mean in this case:
"After 12 minutes, Sigfried Held sent a cross into the English penalty area which Ray Wilson misheaded to Helmut Haller, who got his shot on target."
Google's references generally lead back to this article directly, or indirectly or to casual use in documentation. Stifynsemons ( talk) 03:52, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:1930 FIFA World Cup Final which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 14:31, 12 December 2022 (UTC)
A German player, possibly Karl Heinz Schnellinger, was offside. Stop the video [3] at 1 minute and 13 seconds in and, clear as day, the German player at the far post is, according to the offside Law as it stood in 1966, a good 2 yards offside. I have a still of it but copy/paste from my laptop isn't an option. Hence the video uploaded.
[3] MadAmster ( talk) 14:38, 20 December 2022 (UTC)