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1948 United States Senate election in Texas article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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![]() | 1948 United States Senate election in Texas received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
My goals in creating this page are:
Geographyinitiative ( talk) 08:17, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
(Draft)
Party | Candidate | Votes | % | |
---|---|---|---|---|
Democratic | Lyndon B. Johnson | 494,191 | 50.00% | |
Democratic | Coke Stevenson | 494,104 | 50.00% | |
Total votes | 988,295 | 100.00% |
I made this via mathematical calculation based on the statement "he won by 87 votes", but it doesn't include ballots that were thrown out, write-ins, etc. Geographyinitiative ( talk) 08:57, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
from https://www.icpsr.umich.edu/icpsrweb/ICPSR/studies/71/version/1/datadocumentation#
and from https://www.icpsr.umich.edu/icpsrweb/ICPSR/studies/00071/datasets/0010/variables/V262?archive=ICPSR
Geographyinitiative ( talk) 11:45, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
Party | Candidate | Votes | % | |
---|---|---|---|---|
Democratic | Otis C. Myers | 15,330 | 1.28% | |
Democratic | F. B. Clark | 7,420 | 0.62% | |
Democratic | Roscoe H. Collier | 12,327 | 1.03% | |
Democratic | Coke R. Stevenson | 477,077 | 39.68% | |
Democratic | Cyclone Davis | 10,871 | 0.90% | |
Democratic | Frank G. Cortez | 13,344 | 1.11% | |
Democratic | Jesse C. Saunders | 7,401 | 0.62% | |
Democratic | George E. B. Peddy | 237,195 | 19.73% | |
Democratic | Lyndon B. Johnson | 405,617 | 33.73% | |
Democratic | Terrell Sledge | 6,692 | 0.56% | |
Democratic | James F. Alford | 9,117 | 0.76% | |
Total votes | 1,202,391 | 100.00% |
percentages from https://www.ourcampaigns.com/RaceDetail.html?RaceID=151515
vote total created via addition
Geographyinitiative ( talk) 11:59, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
My long-term goal is to give a day-by-day account of the events in the campaign- where the candidates were on every day, etc. After August 28, I want to get even more detailed- who was ahead by how much at what times and what specific new results came in that switched the lead. The goals is to paint a picture of who could have known what and when. Although the present location of the list of 202 voters seems to be unknown to the public, I would like to add a picture to the article which shows a list similar to the way the list of 202 voters would have been. (I find it difficult to picture in my mind how voters names could be in a list in the way that the situation seems to be described.) I read in one source that 11 people on the list were contacted and said they didn't vote- who were they? Any records of those people? Local history books should be consulted. What popular legends about 1948 existed or exist today in Texas? The background of every member of the Committee that certified the election should be understood. The days and steps leading to the Hugo Black decision should be documented too. The documents related to the Hugo Black decision should be linked- shouldn't his decision be part of some kind of formal record? Commentary on the runoff from LBJ, Connally, Stevenson, Parr, Salas, Fortas, Black, Truman, etc should all be included. Changes in the understanding of the 1948 election over the past seventy years should be clearly understood, as well as defences for LBJ etc. In a separate page, events in the 1941 election should be documented as well since Connally seemed to think there were some problems in that election. Geographyinitiative ( talk) 21:18, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
Sept. 28 -- Supreme Court Justice Hugo L. Black today stayed a temporary injunction which kept the name of Representative Lyndon Johnson off the Texas ballot as Democratic nominee for Senator.
In a remarkable feat, LBJ’s Washington lawyers bluffed the Supreme Court Clerk into file-marking their stay motion, despite the absence of papers from the courts below; and a few days later, after an in-chambers hearing on September 29, Justice Black issued his unusual stay order — bearing no case number — that terminated the masters’ efforts to unlock the challenged ballot boxes in the Valley. Free of Judge Davidson’s injunction, the Secretary of State then promulgated the statewide ballot with LBJ on it as Democratic nominee for U.S. Senate.
https://www.velaw.com/uploadedFiles/VEsite/Resources/DefinedLawyering2012.pdf
Did the 'Lawyering' article get the date wrong? Did Hugo Black's stay order happen on the 28th or 29th? Geographyinitiative ( talk) 11:39, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
@ -A-M-B-1996-, A.S. Brown, Billmckern, Danbloch, Dimadick, and Neils51: Hello all. I am so happy about the progress that has been made on this page. There's still more to be done. One of the things I would like to see addressed one day concerns the voter tally list from Box 13 in Alice, Jim Wells County. In all my civics classes, I was never taught how the ballots are counted in the USA (seems like an important point not to discuss in a democratic society!). Why would the names of the voters have been in a list at all? What is the legal name of the type of document that we are talking about when we are talking about a list of voter names plus whoever they voted for? Are there any example photographs of a similar type of document? I have a very hard time imagining the technical mechanics of this whole procedure.
Here's what I'm picturing in my mind's eye (at the moment):
Democratic Party U.S. Senate Primary Runoff Vote Tally
Date: Saturday, August 28, 1948
Location: Precinct 13, Alice, Jim Wells County, TX
Voter Name: Candidate Voted for:
I am going to try to find out more about the official vote totals in Jim Wells (and by county generally). In doing so, I hope that I will get closer to understanding what this list really was really like. I would appreciate any suggestions or help in this area. I really can't imagine what we are talking about when we are saying that there was a list of people's names with the name of the candidate they voted for beside their name. (Or was it two lists, one with the names of people that voted for Stevenson and one with the names of people that voted for Johnson?)
Geographyinitiative ( talk) 21:32, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
My understanding is that the Box 13 list would have been just a list of voters, not their votes. This serves a purpose which continues to this day, of maintaining a list of who has voted for general records-keeping and so they can't vote more than once. In the places that I've voted, the polling place officials have a list of registered voters and you sign next to your typed name. In 1940s Texas, apparently, the names were written on a list by the polling official. The votes would have been on separate paper ballots.
As to the general issue of this not having been addressed in your civics classes, there's a huge amount of local autonomy in how U.S. elections are conducted. Each state potentially does it differently. Dan Bloch ( talk) 03:33, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
To my eye, the Ronnie Dugger story seems to suggest some kind of close relationship between Johnson and Dugger. 1) Is Dugger's story verifiable in any way? 2) Were there other people who visited the presidential bedroom in the same kind of way that Dugger did? 3) What social status did Dugger have that could get him into the presidential bedroom? 4) Is Dugger actually a bachelor? Interesting stuff. Geographyinitiative ( talk) 10:41, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
I used the 1948 Texas Almanac to find the results by county for the 1948 runoff election. I developed a program to ease this process in the future.
The program can be found here: https://github.com/Jurech/texas-election-map-generator
In the Almanac, I also found the county-by-county results for the general election of Johnson vs. Porter; however, these results are incomplete due to many counties not reporting the results in time. My question is, would it be better to include an incomplete map or no map at all for the general election? The best solution would be to find a complete set of county-by-county results, as was apparently done for the 1948 United States presidential election in Texas, but I don't know where to find the primary source for that information or any other place to find the results for the Senate election. I plan on making a map for the first round of the primary, but transcribing all of the results will take a considerable amount of time. What do the rest of you think on this issue? OutlawRun ( talk) 19:03, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
Tower ran in 1960, not 1948. Billmckern ( talk) 22:59, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
The following material was added on September 25, 2019 and a citation to Joan Mellen's Faustian Bargains was added on October 1, 2019:
Joan Mellen is a well-known JFK assassination conspiracy theorist whose book Faustian Bargains has the primary purpose of promulgating a number of conspiracy theories centered around Johnson. It is possible that Mellen may get a few details correct from time-to-time, but as it would be considered an unreliable fringe source in the main LBJ article I think it should be considered similarly here. (See reviews in Jerusalem Post, Kirkus, and Publishers Weekly.) This material very well could be true, so I am simply tagging the material with {{better source needed}} and pinging Billmckern and Geographyinitiative who appear to be the two editors who have contributed most to the article. - Location ( talk) 17:41, 17 November 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
1948 United States Senate election in Texas article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | 1948 United States Senate election in Texas received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
My goals in creating this page are:
Geographyinitiative ( talk) 08:17, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
(Draft)
Party | Candidate | Votes | % | |
---|---|---|---|---|
Democratic | Lyndon B. Johnson | 494,191 | 50.00% | |
Democratic | Coke Stevenson | 494,104 | 50.00% | |
Total votes | 988,295 | 100.00% |
I made this via mathematical calculation based on the statement "he won by 87 votes", but it doesn't include ballots that were thrown out, write-ins, etc. Geographyinitiative ( talk) 08:57, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
from https://www.icpsr.umich.edu/icpsrweb/ICPSR/studies/71/version/1/datadocumentation#
and from https://www.icpsr.umich.edu/icpsrweb/ICPSR/studies/00071/datasets/0010/variables/V262?archive=ICPSR
Geographyinitiative ( talk) 11:45, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
Party | Candidate | Votes | % | |
---|---|---|---|---|
Democratic | Otis C. Myers | 15,330 | 1.28% | |
Democratic | F. B. Clark | 7,420 | 0.62% | |
Democratic | Roscoe H. Collier | 12,327 | 1.03% | |
Democratic | Coke R. Stevenson | 477,077 | 39.68% | |
Democratic | Cyclone Davis | 10,871 | 0.90% | |
Democratic | Frank G. Cortez | 13,344 | 1.11% | |
Democratic | Jesse C. Saunders | 7,401 | 0.62% | |
Democratic | George E. B. Peddy | 237,195 | 19.73% | |
Democratic | Lyndon B. Johnson | 405,617 | 33.73% | |
Democratic | Terrell Sledge | 6,692 | 0.56% | |
Democratic | James F. Alford | 9,117 | 0.76% | |
Total votes | 1,202,391 | 100.00% |
percentages from https://www.ourcampaigns.com/RaceDetail.html?RaceID=151515
vote total created via addition
Geographyinitiative ( talk) 11:59, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
My long-term goal is to give a day-by-day account of the events in the campaign- where the candidates were on every day, etc. After August 28, I want to get even more detailed- who was ahead by how much at what times and what specific new results came in that switched the lead. The goals is to paint a picture of who could have known what and when. Although the present location of the list of 202 voters seems to be unknown to the public, I would like to add a picture to the article which shows a list similar to the way the list of 202 voters would have been. (I find it difficult to picture in my mind how voters names could be in a list in the way that the situation seems to be described.) I read in one source that 11 people on the list were contacted and said they didn't vote- who were they? Any records of those people? Local history books should be consulted. What popular legends about 1948 existed or exist today in Texas? The background of every member of the Committee that certified the election should be understood. The days and steps leading to the Hugo Black decision should be documented too. The documents related to the Hugo Black decision should be linked- shouldn't his decision be part of some kind of formal record? Commentary on the runoff from LBJ, Connally, Stevenson, Parr, Salas, Fortas, Black, Truman, etc should all be included. Changes in the understanding of the 1948 election over the past seventy years should be clearly understood, as well as defences for LBJ etc. In a separate page, events in the 1941 election should be documented as well since Connally seemed to think there were some problems in that election. Geographyinitiative ( talk) 21:18, 12 August 2019 (UTC)
Sept. 28 -- Supreme Court Justice Hugo L. Black today stayed a temporary injunction which kept the name of Representative Lyndon Johnson off the Texas ballot as Democratic nominee for Senator.
In a remarkable feat, LBJ’s Washington lawyers bluffed the Supreme Court Clerk into file-marking their stay motion, despite the absence of papers from the courts below; and a few days later, after an in-chambers hearing on September 29, Justice Black issued his unusual stay order — bearing no case number — that terminated the masters’ efforts to unlock the challenged ballot boxes in the Valley. Free of Judge Davidson’s injunction, the Secretary of State then promulgated the statewide ballot with LBJ on it as Democratic nominee for U.S. Senate.
https://www.velaw.com/uploadedFiles/VEsite/Resources/DefinedLawyering2012.pdf
Did the 'Lawyering' article get the date wrong? Did Hugo Black's stay order happen on the 28th or 29th? Geographyinitiative ( talk) 11:39, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
@ -A-M-B-1996-, A.S. Brown, Billmckern, Danbloch, Dimadick, and Neils51: Hello all. I am so happy about the progress that has been made on this page. There's still more to be done. One of the things I would like to see addressed one day concerns the voter tally list from Box 13 in Alice, Jim Wells County. In all my civics classes, I was never taught how the ballots are counted in the USA (seems like an important point not to discuss in a democratic society!). Why would the names of the voters have been in a list at all? What is the legal name of the type of document that we are talking about when we are talking about a list of voter names plus whoever they voted for? Are there any example photographs of a similar type of document? I have a very hard time imagining the technical mechanics of this whole procedure.
Here's what I'm picturing in my mind's eye (at the moment):
Democratic Party U.S. Senate Primary Runoff Vote Tally
Date: Saturday, August 28, 1948
Location: Precinct 13, Alice, Jim Wells County, TX
Voter Name: Candidate Voted for:
I am going to try to find out more about the official vote totals in Jim Wells (and by county generally). In doing so, I hope that I will get closer to understanding what this list really was really like. I would appreciate any suggestions or help in this area. I really can't imagine what we are talking about when we are saying that there was a list of people's names with the name of the candidate they voted for beside their name. (Or was it two lists, one with the names of people that voted for Stevenson and one with the names of people that voted for Johnson?)
Geographyinitiative ( talk) 21:32, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
My understanding is that the Box 13 list would have been just a list of voters, not their votes. This serves a purpose which continues to this day, of maintaining a list of who has voted for general records-keeping and so they can't vote more than once. In the places that I've voted, the polling place officials have a list of registered voters and you sign next to your typed name. In 1940s Texas, apparently, the names were written on a list by the polling official. The votes would have been on separate paper ballots.
As to the general issue of this not having been addressed in your civics classes, there's a huge amount of local autonomy in how U.S. elections are conducted. Each state potentially does it differently. Dan Bloch ( talk) 03:33, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
To my eye, the Ronnie Dugger story seems to suggest some kind of close relationship between Johnson and Dugger. 1) Is Dugger's story verifiable in any way? 2) Were there other people who visited the presidential bedroom in the same kind of way that Dugger did? 3) What social status did Dugger have that could get him into the presidential bedroom? 4) Is Dugger actually a bachelor? Interesting stuff. Geographyinitiative ( talk) 10:41, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
I used the 1948 Texas Almanac to find the results by county for the 1948 runoff election. I developed a program to ease this process in the future.
The program can be found here: https://github.com/Jurech/texas-election-map-generator
In the Almanac, I also found the county-by-county results for the general election of Johnson vs. Porter; however, these results are incomplete due to many counties not reporting the results in time. My question is, would it be better to include an incomplete map or no map at all for the general election? The best solution would be to find a complete set of county-by-county results, as was apparently done for the 1948 United States presidential election in Texas, but I don't know where to find the primary source for that information or any other place to find the results for the Senate election. I plan on making a map for the first round of the primary, but transcribing all of the results will take a considerable amount of time. What do the rest of you think on this issue? OutlawRun ( talk) 19:03, 2 April 2022 (UTC)
Tower ran in 1960, not 1948. Billmckern ( talk) 22:59, 27 September 2022 (UTC)
The following material was added on September 25, 2019 and a citation to Joan Mellen's Faustian Bargains was added on October 1, 2019:
Joan Mellen is a well-known JFK assassination conspiracy theorist whose book Faustian Bargains has the primary purpose of promulgating a number of conspiracy theories centered around Johnson. It is possible that Mellen may get a few details correct from time-to-time, but as it would be considered an unreliable fringe source in the main LBJ article I think it should be considered similarly here. (See reviews in Jerusalem Post, Kirkus, and Publishers Weekly.) This material very well could be true, so I am simply tagging the material with {{better source needed}} and pinging Billmckern and Geographyinitiative who appear to be the two editors who have contributed most to the article. - Location ( talk) 17:41, 17 November 2022 (UTC)