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From my talk page:
Thank you for the information. I do not have access to Verbände und Truppen der deutschen Wehrmacht und Waffen-SS 1939 - 1945. I only have access to the information via two general histories of the Battle of Berlin, and they only mention the units in passing. I have joined the dots but my assumption could easily be wrong.
When did Felix Steiner stop being commander of the Eleventh? If Steiner was not commander of the Eleventh on April 21-22 then we can break the articles out into two. IMHO the only important operational details are those in "Army Detachment Steiner" as its failure to carry out Hitlers orders had a direct impact Hitler and history (his decleration on the 22 April). What if anything a paper organization did is only of interest to very few.
If Steiner was not commander of the Eleventh in April:
-- PBS 09:25, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Very usedful thanks. We definatly need two articles because one was
Wermacht the other
SS. The key here is the "III SS-Panzer-Korps" as that was steiner's organization that Hitler swelled. I suggest that we break the Army Detachment Steiner out of this article and include the above information into this article. --
PBS
18:36, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
The reference I used was Beevor Berlin the downfall 1945 and he writes in paragraph two and three on page 88 "12 Feb, ... General von Steuben was torpedoed ... The second Army, meanwhile, had been forced back towards the lower Vistula ... In the centre, in eastern Pomerania, a new Eleventh SS Panzer Army was being formed." -- PBS 19:20, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
That explians the date in the article but the new information needs adding to it. BTW I still think we need three articles. 20th, SS 20th, (links between them saying for later incarnation and in the other for the earlier incarnation and third on Army Detachment Steiner -- PBS 20:18, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Ok given the discussion above I have broken the details of " Army Detachment Steiner, put in links to the German Eleventh Army and added the details mentioned above. But the article still needs lots of work. -- PBS 11:52, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Lots to do! It is a function of the infamousness that the SS is held that there are so many articles on them. Some write them under a misguided sense of admiration and still more articles link to them often because of the crimes they were either involved in or alleged to have been involved in. I have been doing a lot of work on the Battle of Berlin and my major reason for creating this article was for "Army Detachment Steiner" because of the important part it played in the last days of Adolph Hitler, specifically his forlorn orders on the 21st and his rant on the 22nd of April 1945. -- PBS 13:16, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
your all fudgepuckers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.222.190.93 ( talk) 17:03, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Who is/was "Eismann"? His name suddenly appears, without explanation, in para 2 of the article. Is/was he an historian, author, a former member of the 11th Panzer Army?? I have no idea.
One only has to look at the beginning of the same paragraph to see how a brief introduction can be really helpful. i.e. "The military historian
Antony Beevor..."
Does anyone wish to put the information in?
![]() | This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
From my talk page:
Thank you for the information. I do not have access to Verbände und Truppen der deutschen Wehrmacht und Waffen-SS 1939 - 1945. I only have access to the information via two general histories of the Battle of Berlin, and they only mention the units in passing. I have joined the dots but my assumption could easily be wrong.
When did Felix Steiner stop being commander of the Eleventh? If Steiner was not commander of the Eleventh on April 21-22 then we can break the articles out into two. IMHO the only important operational details are those in "Army Detachment Steiner" as its failure to carry out Hitlers orders had a direct impact Hitler and history (his decleration on the 22 April). What if anything a paper organization did is only of interest to very few.
If Steiner was not commander of the Eleventh in April:
-- PBS 09:25, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Very usedful thanks. We definatly need two articles because one was
Wermacht the other
SS. The key here is the "III SS-Panzer-Korps" as that was steiner's organization that Hitler swelled. I suggest that we break the Army Detachment Steiner out of this article and include the above information into this article. --
PBS
18:36, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
The reference I used was Beevor Berlin the downfall 1945 and he writes in paragraph two and three on page 88 "12 Feb, ... General von Steuben was torpedoed ... The second Army, meanwhile, had been forced back towards the lower Vistula ... In the centre, in eastern Pomerania, a new Eleventh SS Panzer Army was being formed." -- PBS 19:20, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
That explians the date in the article but the new information needs adding to it. BTW I still think we need three articles. 20th, SS 20th, (links between them saying for later incarnation and in the other for the earlier incarnation and third on Army Detachment Steiner -- PBS 20:18, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Ok given the discussion above I have broken the details of " Army Detachment Steiner, put in links to the German Eleventh Army and added the details mentioned above. But the article still needs lots of work. -- PBS 11:52, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
Lots to do! It is a function of the infamousness that the SS is held that there are so many articles on them. Some write them under a misguided sense of admiration and still more articles link to them often because of the crimes they were either involved in or alleged to have been involved in. I have been doing a lot of work on the Battle of Berlin and my major reason for creating this article was for "Army Detachment Steiner" because of the important part it played in the last days of Adolph Hitler, specifically his forlorn orders on the 21st and his rant on the 22nd of April 1945. -- PBS 13:16, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
your all fudgepuckers —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.222.190.93 ( talk) 17:03, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
Who is/was "Eismann"? His name suddenly appears, without explanation, in para 2 of the article. Is/was he an historian, author, a former member of the 11th Panzer Army?? I have no idea.
One only has to look at the beginning of the same paragraph to see how a brief introduction can be really helpful. i.e. "The military historian
Antony Beevor..."
Does anyone wish to put the information in?