This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I guarantee this won't be the name of the album. Tool likes to fuck with us. BluesX 18:11, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, but the information I had wrote in this article was either released on the official Tool web sites, or in official, reputed magazines, which got their information from the band. I agree that this may not end up being true, knowing Tool, but at the moment, the most we can do is take the band's word for it and chronicle what they tell us. Not to mention I also wrote that due to Tool's nature as a band to give false information, this posted information in the article MAY not be true, but it's all we have go on right now, and it is currently official from the band.
Just fixed the crap out of the entire article, due to the ridiculous amount of made-up content, such as the album length (no one knows, as only rough counts have emerged), mistakes regarding systema encephale, and assumptions about the track title meanings. 138.78.106.76 18:29, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
...But most Tool fans know to take things with a grain of salt, especially if it involves an album name months before the release date. I say it might be a hoax and I vote to delete the page until things get official with the record company. Kpwa gok 18:47, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
I found a quote by a Dr. Wayne Dyer: "Have you really lived 10,000 or more days, or have you lived one day 10,000 or more times?" Related? I have no idea, just something to think about 163.120.77.181 15:27, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
The album title is real, and it is a reference to Maynard’s mother. And there is no question as to its authenticity. The album has been leaked and anyone who has actually heard it will know this to be the case. The two part song “Wings for Marie (part I)” and “10,000 Days (wings part II) includes the lyric “10,000 days in the fire is long enough, you‘re going home” and also specifically has the name Judith Marie in it. (these both occur in the track titled 10,000 days)-Lux Ferre
If not for the album, at least something that has to do with Tool. The domain 10000days.com was registered February 15th, while the news about the album name was posted at toolband.com March 3rd. -- drange 13:36, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
I have listed this article on articles for deletion to see wether this article should be deleted or not. If anyone of you guys think this article should be deleted (since it's another hoax), please feel free to vote here. Mike Garcia 23:45, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002155882
We should probably just decide and leave it, because I keep seeing edits going back and forth as to whether 10,000 Days is the fourth, fifth, or sixth album. It's:
How do you want to call it? Kane5187 19:19, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
There are a few songs on morpheus that say their from 10,000 days. One is called Vicarious, which is the first track on the new CD. I'm normally very very skeptical about leaked tracks, but this one sounds legit. It really does. It doesn't sound like Adam's normal gear that he uses, but the Tool style is definitely there and you can hear some whispered vocals in the background that sound like they could be Maynard. There are no audible lyrics, but it sounds like it could be a first track on a Tool record. What do you guys think?
There is another track I found claiming to be "Rosetta Stoned". It couldn't be more fake, don't even waste time on it.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jombage ( talk • contribs).
It may be worth noting the other meaning for the names of some of these songs in a trivia section or something. For example, Jambi is a province of Indonesia, and the Lipan Apache are a Native American tribe. The Rosetta Stone is a granite stone found in Egypt, which provedcrucial to the deciphering of Egyptian hieroglyphs. Viginti Tres is also means twenty three in latin (see Wiktionary and search viginti and tres seperately). Amazonis 10:29, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
I thought I would consult some other humans before doing anything... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Amazonis ( talk • contribs).
There has been some speculation that `Hofmann' refers to Mark Hofmann rather than Albert Hofmann. Mark Hofmann was an elaborate hoaxster that sold forged documents to the Mormon chuch among others. Hobophobe 23:14, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
FYI, the "stealth banana" bit in Rosetta Stoned is a pretty direct Bill Hicks reference. He had a bit about using military weapons technology to shoot food at hungry people. One of his deadlines was "Stealth Banana -- Smart Fruit!". 199.209.144.27 20:38, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
I added the cover art today. Don't know if this is 100% confirmed. -- Steerpike 19:07, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
To be honest that looks more than real. Like someone got a hold of the booklet. Why would anyone go through the trouble of producing an entire fake booklet and take pictures of it? Are you sure this is confirmed as fake? -- Steerpike 22:53, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
UPDATE: Amazon.com has posted the new image from toolband.com as the album cover, including the new logo released at the same time. [2] Kane5187 06:04, 22 March 2006 (UTC).
Hmmm, so we don't know if the image is genuine or not, eh.
So What???
We don't know if ANYTHING on this page is genuine. For all we know everything from the album title to the track listing could be fake. BUT we still created this article. The article has a tag up the top warning people that it may contain material of a speculative nature. What is the diference between a speculative track listing and a speculative image? Amazonis 06:13, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
UPDATE: Very interesting, after visiting the European Sony BMG page, I found the "official" German homepage on their links page. Interestingly enough, it DOES show the Amazon cover!! Although the website looks more like a generic music page, it really is part of SonyBMG: it footnote reads "©2006 SONY BMG MUSIC ENTERTAINMENT (Germany) GmbH". (And on a side note, it will be released here in Germany on April 28th.. ^^ ). Accordingly, Sony BMG is the European distributor/label (the SonyBMG page directly links to Amazon who lists "Zomba (Sony BMG)" as the label on the according item page. Maybe this suffices to dissolve our copyright concerns? -- Johnnyw 12:29, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
150px|right I found an image at rockdetector.com. Make of it what you will. I was going to add it to the article but then read the notice telling me not to. -- Lolapop 12:45, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
I added a note about Bebo Norman, a contemporary Christian musician, having released a similarly named album in 1999, which was reverted by Kane5187 for not seeming relevant. I don't feel that strongly about it, but I think it's relevant. Last time Tool pulled a hoax, the claim was that Maynard James Keenan found Jesus [4], a hoax carried through so effectively that MTV reported on it and many fans were convinced it was true [5]. I don't want to violate NPOV about this, but I am 99.9% sure that the album name and track listing is bullshit, and there are a lot of clues making it out to be an elaborate joke. The background notes on the track names do a good job of referencing those clues without passing a judgment one way or another. Maybe I'm reading too much into it with the Bebo Norman thing, but I wanted to do the same with the title. There may also be some (possibly biblical) significance to "ten thousand days" that motivated both titles that I'm not aware of. - VJ 20:59, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
This is just to warn/advise everyone that there was an edit I reverted recently on this page that involved a link to Amazon.com's product page for 10,000 Days. Not only on the actual article, but in the talk section (they edited Kane5187's comment on this discussion page with the link as well). The motive of the edit was to add that ip's referral account to the link so they could generate commissions from people buying the album after clicking through Wikipedia. I doubt they'll return here, but their edit page showed a number of other unscrupulous 'vandalisms' with the same motive. In this article and in others you participate in, watch out for this sort of behavior. Hobophobe 19:26, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
I've filed a request for page protection, because of the ongoin revert war. We need a clear and final decision on two subjects: 1. Album artwork 2. 4th, 5th or 6th release. Both topics have already been discussed, nevertheless, anons as well as registered users seem to revert whichever way they feel like. Let's have a talk here with a clear vote one way or the other to quiet things down and make this page a little more stable. -- Johnnyw 15:35, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Album artwork The question is: are you in favor or against the inclusion of the artwork posted on toolband.com as the album conver infobox?
The vote is closed. The result was against. See the summary at the bottom. -- Johnnyw 19:04, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Your opinion:
4th/5th/6th release? Dylan kindly opened the discussion on this issue. Sadly, only I responded. The question is: do we want to call the album
The vote is closed. The result was fourth full-length album. See the at the bottom. -- Johnnyw 19:04, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Your opinion:
Summary. If nobody has a significant reason to object, I'll close the vote now. The result was that
Sorry for jumping into the discussion so late, but what exactly is the problem with using the Amazon image? It is very likely that this will be the album cover art and the image can be attributed as a promotional render released by Volcano. Fair use rationale can easily be established since this is the best image currently available to illustrate the album, as it is sourced, low-rez, and there are no better alternatives. The image certainly wouldn't take away from the commercial value of the record, and the possibility of a legal dispute is nonexistent. Even if ownership of the copyright is questionable, a brief mention of the hoax cover/not hoax cover controversy would in itself justify the usage. When the album is released the cover art could be replaced if necessary. I'm all for a cautious approach to fair use guidelines, but such a seemingly forced consensus against usage seems drastic and reactionary. ˉˉ anetode╞ ┬╡ 00:35, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
A month or so back (the toolshed news update is dated 2/20), a review of the album (this was before the name and tracklist were released) was posted on totalrock.com by a guy named Andy King, who heard it at a press screening. Apparently, the press was not supposed to release any information at all about the album, and the label and band were pissed. The review is posted here and an edited version put against the released tracklist by a fan is here. We might want to talk about this in the article? Note also that some of the song lengths he mentioned don't quite match up with the ones from the Billboard article. I'm not sure how to go about integrating information from this review into the article, if at all. - VJ 23:46, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Please keep in mind the WP guideline that we cannot include any original research. This basically means that "Articles may not contain any unpublished theories, data, statements, concepts, arguments, or ideas; or any new analysis or synthesis of published data, statements, concepts, arguments, or ideas." E.g. stating the obvious might be fine, but to include the unsourced idea that 10,000 days might refer to Jesus' life because someone wrote a book about that subject where 10,000 days are of significance is not only far fetched but cannot be included by ourselves. Anything that goes beyond collecting opinions and facts belongs on fanpages and into forums.. Johnnyw 11:48, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
Sorry to write this here guys but i didnt know where else. 10000 days is being sold earlier ie the 29th August at certain stores in Australia and i have heard even the 28th in one or two places in Germany. Some potential album art has also been shown anyways its all on this website here http://www.fourtheye.net/. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.173.128.90 ( talk • contribs) .
The complete album has leaked onto the internet, and is avaible from several bittorrent-sites. Might be an idea for someone better than me in english to update the page with this new info. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.213.252.22 ( talk • contribs) .
How can i tell what is real and who isnt being a dick?( Vance Clarend 23:53, 20 April 2006 (UTC))
I noticed that the Rumours and Speculation section had been removed this morning (by anon). I thought this was a little harsh since it's not released yet. However I have tried to make some effort in seperating some useful facts from that info. Feel free to add and/or re-categorise stuff within the article. hellboy 00:12, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
I heard a rumour that if you buy the CD, you can only listen to the original and not put in a mp3 player because of the copy right protection and sadly it is true, unless it's just me and every one I have talked to only :). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.75.77.185 ( talk • contribs) .
I came across the page this morning and discovered most of the article had been removed. I don't disagree that the page needs some editing, but I though what had been done was overly drastic. There also didn't seem to be a whole lot of justification for doing it, in either the comments or discussion. hellboy 01:58, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
I rearranged most of the article, removed hoax information, added info from the album liner notes and introduced a new "overview" header... Hope you all approve. -- Johnnyw 14:39, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
I removed the reference to the character on Peewee's Playhouse. Tool's song CLEARLY does not refer to it in any way and it is of no relevance, even the link to the Indonesian province shouldn't be there in my opinion.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.29.88.231 ( talk • contribs) .
Maynard has made mentions to Pee Wee's Playhouse at live shows before the band plays Jambi. Hobomaloney
As lame as this may sound, if you listen to the track, particularly the guitar riff, and say Jambi's catch-phrase, "Mekka-lekka-hi-mekka-hiney-ho", the rhythm matches up very well. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.193.145.39 ( talk • contribs).
There was a reference to a US radio station that played an hours worth of 10,000 Dyas on the radio. Seems like something that doesn't really need to be recorded here. If there's any objections, speak up! hellboy 09:17, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
One thing that bothers me about this page, is the Possible Track References page. According to the Verifiability Policy all of this section should really be deleted, as it's all speculation and personal view points with nothing in the way of citation. Personally, while I don't mind the concept of getting some idea of what the songs are about, at the moment it's really just a dumping ground for people's theories on the tracks. Interested in hearing what other people think on this topic.... hellboy 04:24, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
For some reason, when I ripped the CD to my Itunes, it won't play or recognize Viginti Tres. When I try to burn the cd, the file is on my pc, but it says that it's copy protected (Viginti Tres, that is). Is it possible that the cd is copy protected?
Now, think of it. Sony was responsible for the Rootkit disaster. Every internet love (myself included) loves Tool. If this is happening for anyone else, please tell me, because this would have been the most efficient way possible for them to spread anti-copy technology. - CerpinTaxt
I removed the following section:
Tool is notorious for tricking their fans prior to new releases (such as fake album names, track names, etc.), however, since the album was leaked there has been information circulating about the origin of the leak, which has led to the unofficial belief that the band has intentionally leaked the album in response to unfair treatment by their record company. citation needed The battles between Volcano Records/ Zomba Records and the band date as far back as 1998. [1] Tool's vocalist, Maynard James Keenan, has spoken to an Australian newspaper about his dislike for marketing of music through media such as the iTunes Music Store:
- "They're using the same old model...they're still ripping the artist off. They are selling songs for 99 cents, but the artist is only getting about eight cents. It's way out of balance. We're reluctant to jump in because we want to see how it pans out. The record company comes to us and pleads, 'Please, please, please do it' and we say, 'Please, please, please make it worth our while'." [2]
The primary reason is that this whole section revolves around the "belief that the band has intentionally leaked the album in response to unfair treatment by their record company", which I was unable to verify. There are no hints that this is true, which makes this speculation at best. The info regarding the dislike towards iTunes does not substantiate the claim whatsoever, although the citation might serve its purpose in different context. -- Johnnyw 09:44, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
So I've been trying to figure out this "puzzle" in the album art of 10,000 Days and here is what I have so far...
I am going to reffer to the pictures in the order they come in on the album art (starting with the cool tool 10,000 days pic)...
-- The picture on page 4 (with the skull, the dagger, the cards and the book) comes straight out of Danny Carrey's picture on page 5.
-- Page 7 and 8 still confuse me (Justin Chancellor's pic...) My best guess is a refference to the future or past or of letting go.
-- Manyard's picture on page 10 (I don't know if there might be a correlation to 10,000 and the woman in the background), The woman in the mirror is the same as the nude woman behind Manyard.
-- Adam Jones on page 13, if you look behind him you will understand where the picture on page 12 came out of.
Thats all I've been able to come up with until now. Post more if youve figured it out.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.54.247.114 ( talk • contribs) 15:09, May 17, 2006, EDT.
hey dylan did u read what I put in? the puzzle that manyard reffers to in the album art... hence the improvement of the "associated article." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.54.247.114 ( talk • contribs) 02:16, May 18, 2006.
I think I should add here that the pic of Maynard from my point of view, is clearly relating to dualities: the decanter and the wine bottle, the two kinds of telephones, the two boxes on the table, one opened, the other closed, the wine glasses, one on the table, the other being offered to the viewer, the naked woman, reflected on the mirror, dressed, behind Maynard ignoring him and on the mirror like if caressing him, Maynard himself and his reflection on the mirror. The only things I couldn't make out are the two far more to the right and the model building - it reminds me of Metropolis, by the way, but not that this means anything. Also, almost every image in the booklet can be paired, except that the close-ups are only three. And they are not close-ups, but different shots, to be precise. They are to make you see what in not so clear in the main pictures, probably to add meaning to them or clarify things. As a factoid, the cranium in front of Danny (of which he is taken the top as a lid) appears both at the entrance of a section of his personal website and in one of the picures of Antichist Svperstar's (Marilyn Manson) booklet. I think you should also know that "Rosetta Stoned" is less of a reference to the Egyptian stone but more to Mary Magdalene. Fernando Pessoa
I'll try to look up more information and expand that section later. I might make a section about interpretation surrounding the album, although being such a new release, details are tight.
I realize that some of what I posted is speculation at this point, but I will look for references later. If I can't find any, I will reword the section. The information about Undertow is factual, but technically, its significance is speculation.
If anyone would like to expand that section or post more interpretation (with sources!) please do so.
Leopold Bloom 03:25, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
*The tracks "Viginti Tres", "Wings for Marie, Pt. 1", and "10,000 Days, Wings Pt. 2" sync up when Viginti Tres is played before Wings for Marie with 10,000 Days playing simultaneously. [3] The times for Viginti Tres and Wings for Marie add up to 11:13, the exact length of 10,000 Days. When synced, after Viginti Tres's section ends, Wings for Marie and 10,000 Days produce a sound much like that of an eight-piece band. It is important to note that the number 23 is one-third of 69, the number of tracks on initial pressings of Tool's first full-length album, Undertow. 69 is also the approximate length of Undertow in minutes. The number three occurs in the three faces on 10,000 Days' cover as well, representing one whole, and apparently meant as a clue to the three songs' synching.
While I think that yes, the 2 songs do intentionally synch up, I don't think this information belongs on Wikipedia, at least not until it can fullfil WP:V. Foolish Child 12:03, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
I think the song sync theory does not belong until it can be officially verified. Perhaps a separate page onto itself with all the supporting details regarding the theory, a page similar to the Publis Enigma or Kid17 Theory page perhaps? But until something official, it doesn't belong on the WP entry 68.59.54.100 02:09, 21 May 2006 (UTC)jth
Ok, looks like the whole puzzle, syncrhonisation thing has appear again. I though we'd already pretty much establish that there's no real evidence to support any of this, therefore should not be included in the article. I think to clarify this we should consider having a vote on the subject. My vote is to keep it out, since as I mentioned, references to it are highly subjective and circumstantial. hellboy 03:53, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.231.82.98 ( talk) 17:32, 8 November 2006 (UTC).
Archived by BotleySmith 14:35, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:10,000 Days (Tool album)/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
* All the start class criteria
|
Last edited at 19:38, 23 June 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 14:05, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I guarantee this won't be the name of the album. Tool likes to fuck with us. BluesX 18:11, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, but the information I had wrote in this article was either released on the official Tool web sites, or in official, reputed magazines, which got their information from the band. I agree that this may not end up being true, knowing Tool, but at the moment, the most we can do is take the band's word for it and chronicle what they tell us. Not to mention I also wrote that due to Tool's nature as a band to give false information, this posted information in the article MAY not be true, but it's all we have go on right now, and it is currently official from the band.
Just fixed the crap out of the entire article, due to the ridiculous amount of made-up content, such as the album length (no one knows, as only rough counts have emerged), mistakes regarding systema encephale, and assumptions about the track title meanings. 138.78.106.76 18:29, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
...But most Tool fans know to take things with a grain of salt, especially if it involves an album name months before the release date. I say it might be a hoax and I vote to delete the page until things get official with the record company. Kpwa gok 18:47, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
I found a quote by a Dr. Wayne Dyer: "Have you really lived 10,000 or more days, or have you lived one day 10,000 or more times?" Related? I have no idea, just something to think about 163.120.77.181 15:27, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
The album title is real, and it is a reference to Maynard’s mother. And there is no question as to its authenticity. The album has been leaked and anyone who has actually heard it will know this to be the case. The two part song “Wings for Marie (part I)” and “10,000 Days (wings part II) includes the lyric “10,000 days in the fire is long enough, you‘re going home” and also specifically has the name Judith Marie in it. (these both occur in the track titled 10,000 days)-Lux Ferre
If not for the album, at least something that has to do with Tool. The domain 10000days.com was registered February 15th, while the news about the album name was posted at toolband.com March 3rd. -- drange 13:36, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
I have listed this article on articles for deletion to see wether this article should be deleted or not. If anyone of you guys think this article should be deleted (since it's another hoax), please feel free to vote here. Mike Garcia 23:45, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1002155882
We should probably just decide and leave it, because I keep seeing edits going back and forth as to whether 10,000 Days is the fourth, fifth, or sixth album. It's:
How do you want to call it? Kane5187 19:19, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
There are a few songs on morpheus that say their from 10,000 days. One is called Vicarious, which is the first track on the new CD. I'm normally very very skeptical about leaked tracks, but this one sounds legit. It really does. It doesn't sound like Adam's normal gear that he uses, but the Tool style is definitely there and you can hear some whispered vocals in the background that sound like they could be Maynard. There are no audible lyrics, but it sounds like it could be a first track on a Tool record. What do you guys think?
There is another track I found claiming to be "Rosetta Stoned". It couldn't be more fake, don't even waste time on it.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jombage ( talk • contribs).
It may be worth noting the other meaning for the names of some of these songs in a trivia section or something. For example, Jambi is a province of Indonesia, and the Lipan Apache are a Native American tribe. The Rosetta Stone is a granite stone found in Egypt, which provedcrucial to the deciphering of Egyptian hieroglyphs. Viginti Tres is also means twenty three in latin (see Wiktionary and search viginti and tres seperately). Amazonis 10:29, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
I thought I would consult some other humans before doing anything... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Amazonis ( talk • contribs).
There has been some speculation that `Hofmann' refers to Mark Hofmann rather than Albert Hofmann. Mark Hofmann was an elaborate hoaxster that sold forged documents to the Mormon chuch among others. Hobophobe 23:14, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
FYI, the "stealth banana" bit in Rosetta Stoned is a pretty direct Bill Hicks reference. He had a bit about using military weapons technology to shoot food at hungry people. One of his deadlines was "Stealth Banana -- Smart Fruit!". 199.209.144.27 20:38, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
I added the cover art today. Don't know if this is 100% confirmed. -- Steerpike 19:07, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
To be honest that looks more than real. Like someone got a hold of the booklet. Why would anyone go through the trouble of producing an entire fake booklet and take pictures of it? Are you sure this is confirmed as fake? -- Steerpike 22:53, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
UPDATE: Amazon.com has posted the new image from toolband.com as the album cover, including the new logo released at the same time. [2] Kane5187 06:04, 22 March 2006 (UTC).
Hmmm, so we don't know if the image is genuine or not, eh.
So What???
We don't know if ANYTHING on this page is genuine. For all we know everything from the album title to the track listing could be fake. BUT we still created this article. The article has a tag up the top warning people that it may contain material of a speculative nature. What is the diference between a speculative track listing and a speculative image? Amazonis 06:13, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
UPDATE: Very interesting, after visiting the European Sony BMG page, I found the "official" German homepage on their links page. Interestingly enough, it DOES show the Amazon cover!! Although the website looks more like a generic music page, it really is part of SonyBMG: it footnote reads "©2006 SONY BMG MUSIC ENTERTAINMENT (Germany) GmbH". (And on a side note, it will be released here in Germany on April 28th.. ^^ ). Accordingly, Sony BMG is the European distributor/label (the SonyBMG page directly links to Amazon who lists "Zomba (Sony BMG)" as the label on the according item page. Maybe this suffices to dissolve our copyright concerns? -- Johnnyw 12:29, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
150px|right I found an image at rockdetector.com. Make of it what you will. I was going to add it to the article but then read the notice telling me not to. -- Lolapop 12:45, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
I added a note about Bebo Norman, a contemporary Christian musician, having released a similarly named album in 1999, which was reverted by Kane5187 for not seeming relevant. I don't feel that strongly about it, but I think it's relevant. Last time Tool pulled a hoax, the claim was that Maynard James Keenan found Jesus [4], a hoax carried through so effectively that MTV reported on it and many fans were convinced it was true [5]. I don't want to violate NPOV about this, but I am 99.9% sure that the album name and track listing is bullshit, and there are a lot of clues making it out to be an elaborate joke. The background notes on the track names do a good job of referencing those clues without passing a judgment one way or another. Maybe I'm reading too much into it with the Bebo Norman thing, but I wanted to do the same with the title. There may also be some (possibly biblical) significance to "ten thousand days" that motivated both titles that I'm not aware of. - VJ 20:59, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
This is just to warn/advise everyone that there was an edit I reverted recently on this page that involved a link to Amazon.com's product page for 10,000 Days. Not only on the actual article, but in the talk section (they edited Kane5187's comment on this discussion page with the link as well). The motive of the edit was to add that ip's referral account to the link so they could generate commissions from people buying the album after clicking through Wikipedia. I doubt they'll return here, but their edit page showed a number of other unscrupulous 'vandalisms' with the same motive. In this article and in others you participate in, watch out for this sort of behavior. Hobophobe 19:26, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
I've filed a request for page protection, because of the ongoin revert war. We need a clear and final decision on two subjects: 1. Album artwork 2. 4th, 5th or 6th release. Both topics have already been discussed, nevertheless, anons as well as registered users seem to revert whichever way they feel like. Let's have a talk here with a clear vote one way or the other to quiet things down and make this page a little more stable. -- Johnnyw 15:35, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Album artwork The question is: are you in favor or against the inclusion of the artwork posted on toolband.com as the album conver infobox?
The vote is closed. The result was against. See the summary at the bottom. -- Johnnyw 19:04, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Your opinion:
4th/5th/6th release? Dylan kindly opened the discussion on this issue. Sadly, only I responded. The question is: do we want to call the album
The vote is closed. The result was fourth full-length album. See the at the bottom. -- Johnnyw 19:04, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Your opinion:
Summary. If nobody has a significant reason to object, I'll close the vote now. The result was that
Sorry for jumping into the discussion so late, but what exactly is the problem with using the Amazon image? It is very likely that this will be the album cover art and the image can be attributed as a promotional render released by Volcano. Fair use rationale can easily be established since this is the best image currently available to illustrate the album, as it is sourced, low-rez, and there are no better alternatives. The image certainly wouldn't take away from the commercial value of the record, and the possibility of a legal dispute is nonexistent. Even if ownership of the copyright is questionable, a brief mention of the hoax cover/not hoax cover controversy would in itself justify the usage. When the album is released the cover art could be replaced if necessary. I'm all for a cautious approach to fair use guidelines, but such a seemingly forced consensus against usage seems drastic and reactionary. ˉˉ anetode╞ ┬╡ 00:35, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
A month or so back (the toolshed news update is dated 2/20), a review of the album (this was before the name and tracklist were released) was posted on totalrock.com by a guy named Andy King, who heard it at a press screening. Apparently, the press was not supposed to release any information at all about the album, and the label and band were pissed. The review is posted here and an edited version put against the released tracklist by a fan is here. We might want to talk about this in the article? Note also that some of the song lengths he mentioned don't quite match up with the ones from the Billboard article. I'm not sure how to go about integrating information from this review into the article, if at all. - VJ 23:46, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Please keep in mind the WP guideline that we cannot include any original research. This basically means that "Articles may not contain any unpublished theories, data, statements, concepts, arguments, or ideas; or any new analysis or synthesis of published data, statements, concepts, arguments, or ideas." E.g. stating the obvious might be fine, but to include the unsourced idea that 10,000 days might refer to Jesus' life because someone wrote a book about that subject where 10,000 days are of significance is not only far fetched but cannot be included by ourselves. Anything that goes beyond collecting opinions and facts belongs on fanpages and into forums.. Johnnyw 11:48, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
Sorry to write this here guys but i didnt know where else. 10000 days is being sold earlier ie the 29th August at certain stores in Australia and i have heard even the 28th in one or two places in Germany. Some potential album art has also been shown anyways its all on this website here http://www.fourtheye.net/. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.173.128.90 ( talk • contribs) .
The complete album has leaked onto the internet, and is avaible from several bittorrent-sites. Might be an idea for someone better than me in english to update the page with this new info. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.213.252.22 ( talk • contribs) .
How can i tell what is real and who isnt being a dick?( Vance Clarend 23:53, 20 April 2006 (UTC))
I noticed that the Rumours and Speculation section had been removed this morning (by anon). I thought this was a little harsh since it's not released yet. However I have tried to make some effort in seperating some useful facts from that info. Feel free to add and/or re-categorise stuff within the article. hellboy 00:12, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
I heard a rumour that if you buy the CD, you can only listen to the original and not put in a mp3 player because of the copy right protection and sadly it is true, unless it's just me and every one I have talked to only :). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.75.77.185 ( talk • contribs) .
I came across the page this morning and discovered most of the article had been removed. I don't disagree that the page needs some editing, but I though what had been done was overly drastic. There also didn't seem to be a whole lot of justification for doing it, in either the comments or discussion. hellboy 01:58, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
I rearranged most of the article, removed hoax information, added info from the album liner notes and introduced a new "overview" header... Hope you all approve. -- Johnnyw 14:39, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
I removed the reference to the character on Peewee's Playhouse. Tool's song CLEARLY does not refer to it in any way and it is of no relevance, even the link to the Indonesian province shouldn't be there in my opinion.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.29.88.231 ( talk • contribs) .
Maynard has made mentions to Pee Wee's Playhouse at live shows before the band plays Jambi. Hobomaloney
As lame as this may sound, if you listen to the track, particularly the guitar riff, and say Jambi's catch-phrase, "Mekka-lekka-hi-mekka-hiney-ho", the rhythm matches up very well. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.193.145.39 ( talk • contribs).
There was a reference to a US radio station that played an hours worth of 10,000 Dyas on the radio. Seems like something that doesn't really need to be recorded here. If there's any objections, speak up! hellboy 09:17, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
One thing that bothers me about this page, is the Possible Track References page. According to the Verifiability Policy all of this section should really be deleted, as it's all speculation and personal view points with nothing in the way of citation. Personally, while I don't mind the concept of getting some idea of what the songs are about, at the moment it's really just a dumping ground for people's theories on the tracks. Interested in hearing what other people think on this topic.... hellboy 04:24, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
For some reason, when I ripped the CD to my Itunes, it won't play or recognize Viginti Tres. When I try to burn the cd, the file is on my pc, but it says that it's copy protected (Viginti Tres, that is). Is it possible that the cd is copy protected?
Now, think of it. Sony was responsible for the Rootkit disaster. Every internet love (myself included) loves Tool. If this is happening for anyone else, please tell me, because this would have been the most efficient way possible for them to spread anti-copy technology. - CerpinTaxt
I removed the following section:
Tool is notorious for tricking their fans prior to new releases (such as fake album names, track names, etc.), however, since the album was leaked there has been information circulating about the origin of the leak, which has led to the unofficial belief that the band has intentionally leaked the album in response to unfair treatment by their record company. citation needed The battles between Volcano Records/ Zomba Records and the band date as far back as 1998. [1] Tool's vocalist, Maynard James Keenan, has spoken to an Australian newspaper about his dislike for marketing of music through media such as the iTunes Music Store:
- "They're using the same old model...they're still ripping the artist off. They are selling songs for 99 cents, but the artist is only getting about eight cents. It's way out of balance. We're reluctant to jump in because we want to see how it pans out. The record company comes to us and pleads, 'Please, please, please do it' and we say, 'Please, please, please make it worth our while'." [2]
The primary reason is that this whole section revolves around the "belief that the band has intentionally leaked the album in response to unfair treatment by their record company", which I was unable to verify. There are no hints that this is true, which makes this speculation at best. The info regarding the dislike towards iTunes does not substantiate the claim whatsoever, although the citation might serve its purpose in different context. -- Johnnyw 09:44, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
So I've been trying to figure out this "puzzle" in the album art of 10,000 Days and here is what I have so far...
I am going to reffer to the pictures in the order they come in on the album art (starting with the cool tool 10,000 days pic)...
-- The picture on page 4 (with the skull, the dagger, the cards and the book) comes straight out of Danny Carrey's picture on page 5.
-- Page 7 and 8 still confuse me (Justin Chancellor's pic...) My best guess is a refference to the future or past or of letting go.
-- Manyard's picture on page 10 (I don't know if there might be a correlation to 10,000 and the woman in the background), The woman in the mirror is the same as the nude woman behind Manyard.
-- Adam Jones on page 13, if you look behind him you will understand where the picture on page 12 came out of.
Thats all I've been able to come up with until now. Post more if youve figured it out.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.54.247.114 ( talk • contribs) 15:09, May 17, 2006, EDT.
hey dylan did u read what I put in? the puzzle that manyard reffers to in the album art... hence the improvement of the "associated article." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.54.247.114 ( talk • contribs) 02:16, May 18, 2006.
I think I should add here that the pic of Maynard from my point of view, is clearly relating to dualities: the decanter and the wine bottle, the two kinds of telephones, the two boxes on the table, one opened, the other closed, the wine glasses, one on the table, the other being offered to the viewer, the naked woman, reflected on the mirror, dressed, behind Maynard ignoring him and on the mirror like if caressing him, Maynard himself and his reflection on the mirror. The only things I couldn't make out are the two far more to the right and the model building - it reminds me of Metropolis, by the way, but not that this means anything. Also, almost every image in the booklet can be paired, except that the close-ups are only three. And they are not close-ups, but different shots, to be precise. They are to make you see what in not so clear in the main pictures, probably to add meaning to them or clarify things. As a factoid, the cranium in front of Danny (of which he is taken the top as a lid) appears both at the entrance of a section of his personal website and in one of the picures of Antichist Svperstar's (Marilyn Manson) booklet. I think you should also know that "Rosetta Stoned" is less of a reference to the Egyptian stone but more to Mary Magdalene. Fernando Pessoa
I'll try to look up more information and expand that section later. I might make a section about interpretation surrounding the album, although being such a new release, details are tight.
I realize that some of what I posted is speculation at this point, but I will look for references later. If I can't find any, I will reword the section. The information about Undertow is factual, but technically, its significance is speculation.
If anyone would like to expand that section or post more interpretation (with sources!) please do so.
Leopold Bloom 03:25, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
*The tracks "Viginti Tres", "Wings for Marie, Pt. 1", and "10,000 Days, Wings Pt. 2" sync up when Viginti Tres is played before Wings for Marie with 10,000 Days playing simultaneously. [3] The times for Viginti Tres and Wings for Marie add up to 11:13, the exact length of 10,000 Days. When synced, after Viginti Tres's section ends, Wings for Marie and 10,000 Days produce a sound much like that of an eight-piece band. It is important to note that the number 23 is one-third of 69, the number of tracks on initial pressings of Tool's first full-length album, Undertow. 69 is also the approximate length of Undertow in minutes. The number three occurs in the three faces on 10,000 Days' cover as well, representing one whole, and apparently meant as a clue to the three songs' synching.
While I think that yes, the 2 songs do intentionally synch up, I don't think this information belongs on Wikipedia, at least not until it can fullfil WP:V. Foolish Child 12:03, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
I think the song sync theory does not belong until it can be officially verified. Perhaps a separate page onto itself with all the supporting details regarding the theory, a page similar to the Publis Enigma or Kid17 Theory page perhaps? But until something official, it doesn't belong on the WP entry 68.59.54.100 02:09, 21 May 2006 (UTC)jth
Ok, looks like the whole puzzle, syncrhonisation thing has appear again. I though we'd already pretty much establish that there's no real evidence to support any of this, therefore should not be included in the article. I think to clarify this we should consider having a vote on the subject. My vote is to keep it out, since as I mentioned, references to it are highly subjective and circumstantial. hellboy 03:53, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.231.82.98 ( talk) 17:32, 8 November 2006 (UTC).
Archived by BotleySmith 14:35, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:10,000 Days (Tool album)/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
* All the start class criteria
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Last edited at 19:38, 23 June 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 14:05, 1 May 2016 (UTC)