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I think paulmitchell.edu is a great/surprising example of a non-university with a .edu domain. I'm not willing to spend the time to integrate it, but I think it should be (perhaps right after deltacolleges.edu). -- Mrcolj ( talk) 17:01, 9 July 2010 (UTC) My Guy — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.106.8.150 ( talk) 18:27, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
I am questioning the purpose of the table of domains registered by "non-schools". This now begins to dominate the article, is all likely uncited and unverified, and doesn't really contribute more than a simple statement to the fact that other organizations have been grandfathered in. Perhaps a separate 'list of...' article is less dramatic than removal. Kbrose ( talk) 19:30, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
How about math.edu ? 67.111.218.42 ( talk) 15:27, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I restored the list, and I spent quite a bit of time cleaning it up -- removing dead domains, adding sources for information in the table, etc. I'll try to respond to the various objections that have been raised to its inclusion:
As I see it, the "grandfathering" section of the article is seriously deficient in its current form because it does not contain any insight into the scope of usage of grandfathered .edu names (i.e., the types of entities that registered these names before 2001 and are still using them). I am not personally aware of any reliable third-party sources for this information, although I can find plenty of Internet sources that aren't WP:RS. The U.S. Department of Education statement that some "suspect" or "illegitimate" institutions use these names tells only a small part of the story, as there are many legitimate entities that use them. I could look at the list of active registrants and describe them ("museums, research organizations, K-12 schools, health systems, libraries, non-US institutions, ..."), but that would be original research. On the other hand, if the article says that the Smithsonian Institution uses a name in this TLD and gives the name, a reader can easily verify the information -- and saying that the Smithsonian uses si.edu is hardly a piece of original research. -- Orlady ( talk) 05:04, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
For purposes of further discussion, here's the list, originally posted as it most recently appeared in the article, and subsequently edited to improve it:
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The following table lists a few examples of the grandfathered uses of .edu domain names by entities that would not qualify under the current eligibility criteria to register a name in the .edu domain.
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-- Orlady ( talk) 05:04, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
I think the examples in the prose currently are fine and relay the relevant information. More importantly, for what is there now, the third party source is not "Orlady (November 2011)". The fact that it is not a comprehensive list is why we need somebody other than us to have noted these particular choices in a reliable source (and even that is not perfect and can lead to POV if we are not careful). To my mind, a list of examples like this needs to be comprehensive (and useful--even if this were comprehensive, it would still not be useful) or cited to good RSs without WP:SYNTH. As it stands now, I don't think a single entry in the table complies with SYNTH, though I might have missed one, since not one of those sources note that the domain was grandfathered in. you are taking the current .edu criteria (A), the WHOIS or other information about the domain or org (B), and stating that the domain does not meet the criteria and was grandfathered (C). The grandfather issue already has a very prominent place in the article (in light of the thousands of domains that fit the rule, this is pushing WP:UNDUE "An article should not give undue weight to any aspects of the subject but should strive to treat each aspect with a weight appropriate to its significance to the subject."). Feel free to have the last word between us, but absent new arguments or others weighing in in favor of including this table of OR, I probably will sit on the sidelines. Novaseminary ( talk) 05:40, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
Sir or madam: you have the wrong photograph attached to John Olver's entry. You have attached an American politician, rather than the photograph of John as Rugby Union player. Thank you, John S Hunter
![]() | This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
.edu article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Archive 1 |
I think paulmitchell.edu is a great/surprising example of a non-university with a .edu domain. I'm not willing to spend the time to integrate it, but I think it should be (perhaps right after deltacolleges.edu). -- Mrcolj ( talk) 17:01, 9 July 2010 (UTC) My Guy — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.106.8.150 ( talk) 18:27, 6 July 2017 (UTC)
I am questioning the purpose of the table of domains registered by "non-schools". This now begins to dominate the article, is all likely uncited and unverified, and doesn't really contribute more than a simple statement to the fact that other organizations have been grandfathered in. Perhaps a separate 'list of...' article is less dramatic than removal. Kbrose ( talk) 19:30, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
How about math.edu ? 67.111.218.42 ( talk) 15:27, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I restored the list, and I spent quite a bit of time cleaning it up -- removing dead domains, adding sources for information in the table, etc. I'll try to respond to the various objections that have been raised to its inclusion:
As I see it, the "grandfathering" section of the article is seriously deficient in its current form because it does not contain any insight into the scope of usage of grandfathered .edu names (i.e., the types of entities that registered these names before 2001 and are still using them). I am not personally aware of any reliable third-party sources for this information, although I can find plenty of Internet sources that aren't WP:RS. The U.S. Department of Education statement that some "suspect" or "illegitimate" institutions use these names tells only a small part of the story, as there are many legitimate entities that use them. I could look at the list of active registrants and describe them ("museums, research organizations, K-12 schools, health systems, libraries, non-US institutions, ..."), but that would be original research. On the other hand, if the article says that the Smithsonian Institution uses a name in this TLD and gives the name, a reader can easily verify the information -- and saying that the Smithsonian uses si.edu is hardly a piece of original research. -- Orlady ( talk) 05:04, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
For purposes of further discussion, here's the list, originally posted as it most recently appeared in the article, and subsequently edited to improve it:
Extended content
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
The following table lists a few examples of the grandfathered uses of .edu domain names by entities that would not qualify under the current eligibility criteria to register a name in the .edu domain.
|
-- Orlady ( talk) 05:04, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
I think the examples in the prose currently are fine and relay the relevant information. More importantly, for what is there now, the third party source is not "Orlady (November 2011)". The fact that it is not a comprehensive list is why we need somebody other than us to have noted these particular choices in a reliable source (and even that is not perfect and can lead to POV if we are not careful). To my mind, a list of examples like this needs to be comprehensive (and useful--even if this were comprehensive, it would still not be useful) or cited to good RSs without WP:SYNTH. As it stands now, I don't think a single entry in the table complies with SYNTH, though I might have missed one, since not one of those sources note that the domain was grandfathered in. you are taking the current .edu criteria (A), the WHOIS or other information about the domain or org (B), and stating that the domain does not meet the criteria and was grandfathered (C). The grandfather issue already has a very prominent place in the article (in light of the thousands of domains that fit the rule, this is pushing WP:UNDUE "An article should not give undue weight to any aspects of the subject but should strive to treat each aspect with a weight appropriate to its significance to the subject."). Feel free to have the last word between us, but absent new arguments or others weighing in in favor of including this table of OR, I probably will sit on the sidelines. Novaseminary ( talk) 05:40, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
Sir or madam: you have the wrong photograph attached to John Olver's entry. You have attached an American politician, rather than the photograph of John as Rugby Union player. Thank you, John S Hunter