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![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on September 13, 2012. |
John Keegan's History of Warfare discusses the strategies and tactics employed by the Khans. One key area was the use of mobile warfare dependent on their large cavalry. His theory was that after leaving the Steppes, this cavalry would have had serious challenges in feeding the horses - less pasture land - and would have gradually lost enough horses to sustain that type of warfare. It was inevitable, according to Keegan, that they would have failed.
For that reason I feel the section discussing their ability to conquer all of Europe needs to be better balanced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.253.81.39 ( talk) 03:10, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
i think this european pasture excuse is not enough to doubt the mental toughness of the mongol horde. Mongols have survived the harshest of weathers from the heat of the middle east and the severe winters of kievan rus which btw no other european empire of all time can overcome. If mongols did destroy the fortresses in china, persians and the best knights in eastern europe. They can defenetely destroy the scattered states of the holy roman empire. Europe is just lucky really, that the best commander subotai was unfortunate enough not to finish his winter campaign on the holy roman empire. he knows it and every mongolian knows it the asian folk can beat europe in their own turf. And yes iam mad that whites wont accept they can lose in their own homeland. its just disgusting — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.85.230.82 ( talk) 06:18, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
"He was an extremely pragmatic person, much like his father, and looked at the end rather than the means" By pragmatic is machiavellian what's meant here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.187.172 ( talk) 13:28, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
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He uses a historian who speculates/suggests that Odegei Khan may have had red hair but that is all pure speculation because there is no historical record that had ever described Odegei Khan. Hunan201p never provide a historical record confirming Odegei Khan was red haired, no one had ever described him red hair during his lifetime.
Hunan201p uses this source
Ogedei was confirmed as the new ruler in 1229 and reigned until his death in 1241. We may know what he looked like, thanks to his well-known portrait, (painted about a hundred years after his death), showing him as stocky in the same way as Genghis, red bearded, hazel eyed, and well prepared for Northern interiors with his domed, fur-trimmed winter helmet.
The problem with this. First she said "We may know what he looked like", meaning she doesn't confirm it to be 100% sure. And that's "thanks to his well-known portrait, (painted about a hundred years after his death)", how can you used a portrait painted hundred years after his deaths as evidence? Gemmaso ( talk) 08:11, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
What are you talking about? Everything must be based on historical facts and CONFIRMED...who told you that?
You do not have any historical confirmation from medieval description or medieval historians and witness that suggest Odegei Khan had red hair. All your sources come from modern speculation...it is perfectly acceptable to use modern scholarship as source.
The portrait like your source says is painted hundred years after his death, how can that be considered accurate?...lay off the original research already...
Besides the red hair claims on Khans is a proven error. The source from Andrew Boyle...the only error here is your hallucinatory interpretation of Boyle. That is not the part where Rashid said the Borjigins had red hair. - Hunan201p ( talk) 08:56, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
According to Pamela Kyle Crossleypart of the quote. This clearly signifies that this is an opinion of a modern historian. The opinion is that a posthumous portrait depicts him with certain features. I can see absolutely no evidence for your accusations of "fooling the world". You would do well to take back your numerous unfounded allegations before preventative measures are taken against you. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 ( talk) 12:14, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
Ogedei was confirmed as the new ruler in 1229 and reigned until his death in 1241. We may know what he looked like, thanks to his well-known portrait, (painted about a hundred years after his death), showing him as stocky in the same way as Genghis, red bearded, hazel eyed, and well prepared for Northern interiors with his domed, fur-trimmed winter helmet.
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Ögedei Khan article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on September 13, 2012. |
John Keegan's History of Warfare discusses the strategies and tactics employed by the Khans. One key area was the use of mobile warfare dependent on their large cavalry. His theory was that after leaving the Steppes, this cavalry would have had serious challenges in feeding the horses - less pasture land - and would have gradually lost enough horses to sustain that type of warfare. It was inevitable, according to Keegan, that they would have failed.
For that reason I feel the section discussing their ability to conquer all of Europe needs to be better balanced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.253.81.39 ( talk) 03:10, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
i think this european pasture excuse is not enough to doubt the mental toughness of the mongol horde. Mongols have survived the harshest of weathers from the heat of the middle east and the severe winters of kievan rus which btw no other european empire of all time can overcome. If mongols did destroy the fortresses in china, persians and the best knights in eastern europe. They can defenetely destroy the scattered states of the holy roman empire. Europe is just lucky really, that the best commander subotai was unfortunate enough not to finish his winter campaign on the holy roman empire. he knows it and every mongolian knows it the asian folk can beat europe in their own turf. And yes iam mad that whites wont accept they can lose in their own homeland. its just disgusting — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.85.230.82 ( talk) 06:18, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
"He was an extremely pragmatic person, much like his father, and looked at the end rather than the means" By pragmatic is machiavellian what's meant here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.187.172 ( talk) 13:28, 20 March 2015 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 22:00, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 05:12, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
He uses a historian who speculates/suggests that Odegei Khan may have had red hair but that is all pure speculation because there is no historical record that had ever described Odegei Khan. Hunan201p never provide a historical record confirming Odegei Khan was red haired, no one had ever described him red hair during his lifetime.
Hunan201p uses this source
Ogedei was confirmed as the new ruler in 1229 and reigned until his death in 1241. We may know what he looked like, thanks to his well-known portrait, (painted about a hundred years after his death), showing him as stocky in the same way as Genghis, red bearded, hazel eyed, and well prepared for Northern interiors with his domed, fur-trimmed winter helmet.
The problem with this. First she said "We may know what he looked like", meaning she doesn't confirm it to be 100% sure. And that's "thanks to his well-known portrait, (painted about a hundred years after his death)", how can you used a portrait painted hundred years after his deaths as evidence? Gemmaso ( talk) 08:11, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
What are you talking about? Everything must be based on historical facts and CONFIRMED...who told you that?
You do not have any historical confirmation from medieval description or medieval historians and witness that suggest Odegei Khan had red hair. All your sources come from modern speculation...it is perfectly acceptable to use modern scholarship as source.
The portrait like your source says is painted hundred years after his death, how can that be considered accurate?...lay off the original research already...
Besides the red hair claims on Khans is a proven error. The source from Andrew Boyle...the only error here is your hallucinatory interpretation of Boyle. That is not the part where Rashid said the Borjigins had red hair. - Hunan201p ( talk) 08:56, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
According to Pamela Kyle Crossleypart of the quote. This clearly signifies that this is an opinion of a modern historian. The opinion is that a posthumous portrait depicts him with certain features. I can see absolutely no evidence for your accusations of "fooling the world". You would do well to take back your numerous unfounded allegations before preventative measures are taken against you. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 ( talk) 12:14, 27 February 2023 (UTC)
Ogedei was confirmed as the new ruler in 1229 and reigned until his death in 1241. We may know what he looked like, thanks to his well-known portrait, (painted about a hundred years after his death), showing him as stocky in the same way as Genghis, red bearded, hazel eyed, and well prepared for Northern interiors with his domed, fur-trimmed winter helmet.