![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
Attempting to address Belyny's concerns, here is a revision of the section, which I would call "French navy (1702–1714)":
When he was 15, Perier began a military career at sea. [1] French naval power at the time was invested primarily in a fleet of coursairs, [2] and Perier served on several ships escorting convoys in the English Channel and the North Sea until August 8, 1704, when he joined a company of gardes-marine. [1] [3]
During the War of Spanish Succession, he saw action and was wounded in several engagements, including the capture of the HMS Falmouth in 1704 [4] and the HMS Hampton Court and HMS Grafton in 1707. [5] In 1708, he sailed with Claude de Forbin to Scotland as part of the failed French invasion of Britian. [1]
In 1711, Perier was taken captive as a prisoner of war and released on the condition he no longer serve at sea. [4] To comply with the terms of his parole, he served on land in the Marine Artillery Corps in Valenciennes, France. [1] In June 1712, during the Holy Roman Empire's siege of Le Quesnoy , Perier took part in the city's defense. He was injured by a parapet brick during the siege, [6] and was captured again when the Austrians overran the city. [1]
References
With the above, specific page numbers in Haudrère for 1) Perier's involvement with the capture of HMS Falmouth and 2) His capture and parole in 1711 would be appreciated.
In addition, what would be helpful to me is if someone has a concern with the text, instead of saying we can't say something or that it's wrong, suggest alternative text. If there is something that is unclear, ask a question. If you're asked a question, try to provide a clear answer. If you feel a source is unreliable, especially for something that should be easy to affirm, then provide a better alternative.
— Carter ( talk) 11:01, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
After the Wars of the Spanish Succession wound to an end in 1714, Perier returned to sea to combat pirates off the coast of Senegal for the Compagnie du Sénégal, which later was merged with the Company of the Indies. [1] [2]
In 1720, Perier served under his younger brother, Antoine Alexis, in the capture of Arguin , an island off the coast of Mauritania, in 1721. The Dutch retook the island a year later, but lost it again to French troops, including Perier and his brother, in 1724. [3] After recovering Arguin, the Company troops captured a battery and a fort at Portendick further down the Mauritanian coast before returning to France. [3]
While serving the Company, Perier also protected Company ships in the Pacific off the coasts of Chile and Peru, [1] as well as spent six months on the Malabar Coast, guarding the recently established fort at Mahé, India, which was under threat from local rulers. [4]
References
I believe all the other involved editors have provided input on this section, except for Belyny. — Carter ( talk) 11:21, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
Thanks Carter for your serious and documented work. I’m sorry I didn’t have time to respond faster (work, family life)
A few remarks :
My proposoal of amendments:
When he was 15, Perier began a career at sea. [1] French naval power at the time was invested primarily in a fleet of coursairs, [2] and Perier served on several ships escorting convoys in the English Channel and the North Sea. On August 1704, he joined a company of gardes-marine. [1] [3], but he returned the same year as ensign on privateer frigates (Haudrère). He sailed with Claude de Forbin to Scotland as part of the failed French invasion of Britian. [1] and Duguay-Trouin (Haudrère) He took part in the capture of several ships. He was wounded by a shrapnel in 1704 and wounded in the arm by a gunfire in 1707 (Haudrère). He was taken captive as a prisoner of war and released on the condition he no longer serve at sea. [4]
In 1711, He served on land in the Marine Artillery Corps in Valenciennes, France. [1] In June 1712, during the Holy Roman Empire's siege of Le Quesnoy , he took part in the city's defense and was injured by a parapet brick. [4] He was captured when the Austrians overran the city. [1]
..........
..........
...........
Regards, -- Belyny ( talk) 18:54, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
On August 1704, he joined a company of gardes-marine. [1] [3], but he returned the same year as ensign on privateer frigates (Haudrère). He sailed with Claude de Forbin to Scotland as part of the failed French invasion of Britian. [1] and Duguay-Trouin (Haudrère) He took part in the capture of several ships. He was wounded by a shrapnel in 1704 and wounded in the arm by a gunfire in 1707 (Haudrère).
References
Hi Carter,
I understand your desire to have a readable structure and I agree with that. However, I think some sub-paragrahs are sometime useful for understanding the chronology or understanding the reasons for the facts.
For exemple: even the
Compagnie du Sénégal was absorbeb in 1719 by the
French East India Company, the first one was very involved in African slaves trade
Henri Martin, The age of louis XIV page 489. and could explain some behavior of Perier later in louisiana. Also sailing for the
Compagnie du Sénégal and later for the
French East India Company during a lot of years was a determining factor for the choice of Perier as governor (he had no experience at all of colonies).
I propose : (I let you fill the blank following our discussion)
.......
.......
..........
..........
...........
...........
...........
(we will discuss of the structure of this paragraph later)
Let me know (but take your time, you make a very consencious work but real life is also important) 😃 Thanks. -- Belyny ( talk) 23:24, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
During the War of Spanish Succession, he participated in the capture of several British ships and was wounded in several engagements while serving under René Duguay-Trouin and Claude de Forbin, [1] including sailing to Scotland as part of the failed French invasion of Britian. [2]
References
Hi Carter,,
I’m a little confused with your last amendments directly on the article, I think it's better to modify after a consensus on a clear version on Talk page as we have done until now.
For Taillemite, I am not questioning the author, but the way the source is reported. I have a problem using a lot a source without being able to know exactly the content. Regards, -- Belyny ( talk) 18:01, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
=== First fights ===.
He joined the royal
French Navy as a volunteer in 1702, at the age of 15.
He sailed on ships escorting convoys in the English Channel and the North Sea until August 8, 1704, when he joined a company of marine guards. [1] He embarked on the Prince-Eugène and the Protée in Saint-Pol de Hécourt's squadron, took part in several battles [1] and was wounded in the left hip during an engagement that led to the capture of two English vessels, the Farmouth and the Foix. [2] He then served under Forbin and Duguay-Trouin, alongside François-Cornil Bart. [2] [useless]
In 1706 on the Protée, in Forbin's squadron, he assisted in the capture of the ships the City of Hambourg, the Pélerin, the Grafton and the Hampton-Court. [3] ["Statement of services of Mr. de Perier, Lieutenant General of the Naval Armies (Documents kept in Paris, in the archives of the Navy" is not a acceptable source]
In 1707, he boarded the Ruby and was shot in the right arm. [1]
In 1708, he embarked again in the squadron commanded by Forbin to bring a corps of troops to Scotland [1] .
Taken prisoner of war in 1711, he was released on condition that he would not serve at sea. [2] He served on land, as a marine gunner in Valenciennes. [1]
==== Siege of Le Quesnoy (1712) ====</ref>
[Delete pic "'Siege of Le Quesnoy in June 1712"]: useless ("The purpose of an image is to increase readers' understanding of the article's subject matter... The relevant aspect of the image should be clear and central".)
In June 1712, during the
War of the Spanish Succession, he took part in the defense of the city during the siege of
Le Quesnoy [in 2 words] as a marine gunner. During the bombardment, siège Perier was hit by a
parapet brick. He was made prisoner he was part of the prisoners of war after the capture of the city
[1] [not specifically him because he was an unknown marine gunner]
After the Wars of the Spanish Succession wound to an end in 1714, Perier returned to sea to combat pirates off the coast of Senegal for the Compagnie du Sénégal, [4] [5] which held a monopoly on the trade of enslaved people from West Africa. [6] After 1718, it merged with several other French trading monopolies into the Company of the Indies. [6]
In 1720, Perier served under his younger brother, Antoine Alexis, in the capture of Arguin , an island off the coast of Mauritania, in 1721. The Dutch retook the island a year later, but lost it again to French troops, including Perier and his brother, in 1724. [7] After recovering Arguin, the Company troops captured a battery and a fort at Portendick further down the Mauritanian coast before returning to France. [7]
While serving the Company, Perier also protected Company ships in the Pacific off the coasts of Chile and Peru, [4] as well as spent six months on the Malabar Coast, guarding the recently established fort at Mahé, India, which was under threat from local rulers. [8]
References
Taillemite2002
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Haudrère1996
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Martial service (1704–1714)
When he was 15, Perier began a military career at sea. [1] French naval power at the time was invested primarily in a fleet of coursairs, [2] and Perier served on several ships escorting convoys in the English Channel and the North Sea until August 8, 1704, when he joined a company of gardes-marine. [1] [3]
During the War of Spanish Succession, he participated in the capture of several British ships and was wounded in several engagements while serving under René Duguay-Trouin and Claude de Forbin, [3] including sailing to Scotland as part of the failed French invasion of Britian. [1]
In 1711, Perier was taken captive as a prisoner of war and released on the condition he no longer serve at sea. [4] To comply with the terms of his parole, he served on land in the Marine Artillery Corps in Valenciennes, France. [1] In June 1712, during the Holy Roman Empire's siege of Le Quesnoy , Perier took part in the city's defense. He was injured by a parapet brick during the siege, [5] and was captured again when the Austrians overran the city. [1]
References
References
When he was 15, Perier began a military career at sea. [1] French naval power at the time was invested primarily in a fleet of coursairs [2] and Perier served on several ships escorting convoys in the English Channel and the North Sea
(he was wounded by a shell spinter in 1704) [Haudrère p 92]. Onuntil August 1704 when he joined a company of gardes-marine. [1] [3]
During the War of Spanish Succession, he participated in the capture of several British ships
and was wounded in the right arm in 1707 He served underwhile serving under René Duguay-Trouin and Claude de Forbin, [3] including sailing to Scotland as part of the failed French invasion of Britian. [1]
In 1711, Perier was taken captive as a prisoner of war and released on the condition he no longer serve at sea. [4]
In 1711He next served on land in the Marine Artillery Corps in Valenciennes, France. [1] In June 1712, during the Holy Roman Empire's siege of Le Quesnoy , Perier took part in the city's defense. He was injured by a parapet brick during the siege, [5] and was captured again when the Austrians overran the city. [1]
References
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
Attempting to address Belyny's concerns, here is a revision of the section, which I would call "French navy (1702–1714)":
When he was 15, Perier began a military career at sea. [1] French naval power at the time was invested primarily in a fleet of coursairs, [2] and Perier served on several ships escorting convoys in the English Channel and the North Sea until August 8, 1704, when he joined a company of gardes-marine. [1] [3]
During the War of Spanish Succession, he saw action and was wounded in several engagements, including the capture of the HMS Falmouth in 1704 [4] and the HMS Hampton Court and HMS Grafton in 1707. [5] In 1708, he sailed with Claude de Forbin to Scotland as part of the failed French invasion of Britian. [1]
In 1711, Perier was taken captive as a prisoner of war and released on the condition he no longer serve at sea. [4] To comply with the terms of his parole, he served on land in the Marine Artillery Corps in Valenciennes, France. [1] In June 1712, during the Holy Roman Empire's siege of Le Quesnoy , Perier took part in the city's defense. He was injured by a parapet brick during the siege, [6] and was captured again when the Austrians overran the city. [1]
References
With the above, specific page numbers in Haudrère for 1) Perier's involvement with the capture of HMS Falmouth and 2) His capture and parole in 1711 would be appreciated.
In addition, what would be helpful to me is if someone has a concern with the text, instead of saying we can't say something or that it's wrong, suggest alternative text. If there is something that is unclear, ask a question. If you're asked a question, try to provide a clear answer. If you feel a source is unreliable, especially for something that should be easy to affirm, then provide a better alternative.
— Carter ( talk) 11:01, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
After the Wars of the Spanish Succession wound to an end in 1714, Perier returned to sea to combat pirates off the coast of Senegal for the Compagnie du Sénégal, which later was merged with the Company of the Indies. [1] [2]
In 1720, Perier served under his younger brother, Antoine Alexis, in the capture of Arguin , an island off the coast of Mauritania, in 1721. The Dutch retook the island a year later, but lost it again to French troops, including Perier and his brother, in 1724. [3] After recovering Arguin, the Company troops captured a battery and a fort at Portendick further down the Mauritanian coast before returning to France. [3]
While serving the Company, Perier also protected Company ships in the Pacific off the coasts of Chile and Peru, [1] as well as spent six months on the Malabar Coast, guarding the recently established fort at Mahé, India, which was under threat from local rulers. [4]
References
I believe all the other involved editors have provided input on this section, except for Belyny. — Carter ( talk) 11:21, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
Thanks Carter for your serious and documented work. I’m sorry I didn’t have time to respond faster (work, family life)
A few remarks :
My proposoal of amendments:
When he was 15, Perier began a career at sea. [1] French naval power at the time was invested primarily in a fleet of coursairs, [2] and Perier served on several ships escorting convoys in the English Channel and the North Sea. On August 1704, he joined a company of gardes-marine. [1] [3], but he returned the same year as ensign on privateer frigates (Haudrère). He sailed with Claude de Forbin to Scotland as part of the failed French invasion of Britian. [1] and Duguay-Trouin (Haudrère) He took part in the capture of several ships. He was wounded by a shrapnel in 1704 and wounded in the arm by a gunfire in 1707 (Haudrère). He was taken captive as a prisoner of war and released on the condition he no longer serve at sea. [4]
In 1711, He served on land in the Marine Artillery Corps in Valenciennes, France. [1] In June 1712, during the Holy Roman Empire's siege of Le Quesnoy , he took part in the city's defense and was injured by a parapet brick. [4] He was captured when the Austrians overran the city. [1]
..........
..........
...........
Regards, -- Belyny ( talk) 18:54, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
On August 1704, he joined a company of gardes-marine. [1] [3], but he returned the same year as ensign on privateer frigates (Haudrère). He sailed with Claude de Forbin to Scotland as part of the failed French invasion of Britian. [1] and Duguay-Trouin (Haudrère) He took part in the capture of several ships. He was wounded by a shrapnel in 1704 and wounded in the arm by a gunfire in 1707 (Haudrère).
References
Hi Carter,
I understand your desire to have a readable structure and I agree with that. However, I think some sub-paragrahs are sometime useful for understanding the chronology or understanding the reasons for the facts.
For exemple: even the
Compagnie du Sénégal was absorbeb in 1719 by the
French East India Company, the first one was very involved in African slaves trade
Henri Martin, The age of louis XIV page 489. and could explain some behavior of Perier later in louisiana. Also sailing for the
Compagnie du Sénégal and later for the
French East India Company during a lot of years was a determining factor for the choice of Perier as governor (he had no experience at all of colonies).
I propose : (I let you fill the blank following our discussion)
.......
.......
..........
..........
...........
...........
...........
(we will discuss of the structure of this paragraph later)
Let me know (but take your time, you make a very consencious work but real life is also important) 😃 Thanks. -- Belyny ( talk) 23:24, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
During the War of Spanish Succession, he participated in the capture of several British ships and was wounded in several engagements while serving under René Duguay-Trouin and Claude de Forbin, [1] including sailing to Scotland as part of the failed French invasion of Britian. [2]
References
Hi Carter,,
I’m a little confused with your last amendments directly on the article, I think it's better to modify after a consensus on a clear version on Talk page as we have done until now.
For Taillemite, I am not questioning the author, but the way the source is reported. I have a problem using a lot a source without being able to know exactly the content. Regards, -- Belyny ( talk) 18:01, 23 June 2021 (UTC)
=== First fights ===.
He joined the royal
French Navy as a volunteer in 1702, at the age of 15.
He sailed on ships escorting convoys in the English Channel and the North Sea until August 8, 1704, when he joined a company of marine guards. [1] He embarked on the Prince-Eugène and the Protée in Saint-Pol de Hécourt's squadron, took part in several battles [1] and was wounded in the left hip during an engagement that led to the capture of two English vessels, the Farmouth and the Foix. [2] He then served under Forbin and Duguay-Trouin, alongside François-Cornil Bart. [2] [useless]
In 1706 on the Protée, in Forbin's squadron, he assisted in the capture of the ships the City of Hambourg, the Pélerin, the Grafton and the Hampton-Court. [3] ["Statement of services of Mr. de Perier, Lieutenant General of the Naval Armies (Documents kept in Paris, in the archives of the Navy" is not a acceptable source]
In 1707, he boarded the Ruby and was shot in the right arm. [1]
In 1708, he embarked again in the squadron commanded by Forbin to bring a corps of troops to Scotland [1] .
Taken prisoner of war in 1711, he was released on condition that he would not serve at sea. [2] He served on land, as a marine gunner in Valenciennes. [1]
==== Siege of Le Quesnoy (1712) ====</ref>
[Delete pic "'Siege of Le Quesnoy in June 1712"]: useless ("The purpose of an image is to increase readers' understanding of the article's subject matter... The relevant aspect of the image should be clear and central".)
In June 1712, during the
War of the Spanish Succession, he took part in the defense of the city during the siege of
Le Quesnoy [in 2 words] as a marine gunner. During the bombardment, siège Perier was hit by a
parapet brick. He was made prisoner he was part of the prisoners of war after the capture of the city
[1] [not specifically him because he was an unknown marine gunner]
After the Wars of the Spanish Succession wound to an end in 1714, Perier returned to sea to combat pirates off the coast of Senegal for the Compagnie du Sénégal, [4] [5] which held a monopoly on the trade of enslaved people from West Africa. [6] After 1718, it merged with several other French trading monopolies into the Company of the Indies. [6]
In 1720, Perier served under his younger brother, Antoine Alexis, in the capture of Arguin , an island off the coast of Mauritania, in 1721. The Dutch retook the island a year later, but lost it again to French troops, including Perier and his brother, in 1724. [7] After recovering Arguin, the Company troops captured a battery and a fort at Portendick further down the Mauritanian coast before returning to France. [7]
While serving the Company, Perier also protected Company ships in the Pacific off the coasts of Chile and Peru, [4] as well as spent six months on the Malabar Coast, guarding the recently established fort at Mahé, India, which was under threat from local rulers. [8]
References
Taillemite2002
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Haudrère1996
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Martial service (1704–1714)
When he was 15, Perier began a military career at sea. [1] French naval power at the time was invested primarily in a fleet of coursairs, [2] and Perier served on several ships escorting convoys in the English Channel and the North Sea until August 8, 1704, when he joined a company of gardes-marine. [1] [3]
During the War of Spanish Succession, he participated in the capture of several British ships and was wounded in several engagements while serving under René Duguay-Trouin and Claude de Forbin, [3] including sailing to Scotland as part of the failed French invasion of Britian. [1]
In 1711, Perier was taken captive as a prisoner of war and released on the condition he no longer serve at sea. [4] To comply with the terms of his parole, he served on land in the Marine Artillery Corps in Valenciennes, France. [1] In June 1712, during the Holy Roman Empire's siege of Le Quesnoy , Perier took part in the city's defense. He was injured by a parapet brick during the siege, [5] and was captured again when the Austrians overran the city. [1]
References
References
When he was 15, Perier began a military career at sea. [1] French naval power at the time was invested primarily in a fleet of coursairs [2] and Perier served on several ships escorting convoys in the English Channel and the North Sea
(he was wounded by a shell spinter in 1704) [Haudrère p 92]. Onuntil August 1704 when he joined a company of gardes-marine. [1] [3]
During the War of Spanish Succession, he participated in the capture of several British ships
and was wounded in the right arm in 1707 He served underwhile serving under René Duguay-Trouin and Claude de Forbin, [3] including sailing to Scotland as part of the failed French invasion of Britian. [1]
In 1711, Perier was taken captive as a prisoner of war and released on the condition he no longer serve at sea. [4]
In 1711He next served on land in the Marine Artillery Corps in Valenciennes, France. [1] In June 1712, during the Holy Roman Empire's siege of Le Quesnoy , Perier took part in the city's defense. He was injured by a parapet brick during the siege, [5] and was captured again when the Austrians overran the city. [1]
References