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Fyunck, I'm again flattered that you are following my edits, but this isn't a tennis player or ice-hockey player therefore there is no reason that the name should be deliberately misspelled or anglicized. There is no question that this French
Édouard is the same as every other French Édouard. Do you know anything about
French orthography?
Pièce sur le nom d'Édouard Nanny: pour contrebasse et piano. E. Bozza - 1956 - A. Leduc
You should be flattered. If I see strange edits by a person or vandalizing I also take a quick peek to make sure they didn't do more. In this case yes...you overstepped your bounds. I won't move it back because I saw many English sources that that spelled it Edouard Nanny, including sheet music. Not being a music aficionado I though the music experts on wikipedia should have a look to make sure, before it is moved along with your thousands of other page moves.
Fyunck(click) (
talk)
04:02, 23 May 2012 (UTC)reply
Fyunck, I don't think there is a large constituency for the idea that that spelling a French name with with the correct spelling Édouard on en.wp is "vandalism," and none of your arguments that this is a
WP:STAGENAME apply given that Édouard Nanny, to the best of my knowledge, never registered with the ITF to play tennis at Wimbledon :), however if it makes you happy I will burden
WP:RM with another discussion on diacritics.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
06:30, 23 May 2012 (UTC)reply
This particular case is not vandalism, and I didn't label it as such. I just wanted to make sure the music project knew about it and it wasn't just sneaked by as a spelling change.
Fyunck(click) (
talk)
08:11, 23 May 2012 (UTC)reply
Requested move
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Edouard Nanny →
Édouard Nanny – per
French orthography and
WP:UE example of
Besançon. French composer, move contested by WikiProject Tennis editor Fyunck. Even though the old metal typeface used on the cover of his Méthode complète pour la contrebasse à quatre et cinq cordes (1920) does not display the É majuscule, still the spelling of this Édouard as all other French
Édouards is confirmed by E. Bozza Pièce sur le nom d'Édouard Nanny: pour contrebasse et piano. A. Leduc 1956.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
07:02, 23 May 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment - Love your Tennis Project dig... typical of you. I just wanted to make sure the Music Project had a chance to question this. I saw plenty of English sources that had the "'Edouard Nanny'" spelling... sheet music etc... and the Music Project may or may not agree with the request to change to a foreign alphabet. I thought they would know better than anyone else and didn't want it to just slip through the cracks.
Fyunck(click) (
talk)
08:16, 23 May 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose, as this is the English language Wikipedia & there's no diacritics in the English alphabet. The French title belongs 'only' at French language Wikipedia.
GoodDay (
talk)
10:10, 23 May 2012 (UTC)reply
Support – As with all the other people named "Édouard", there is no reason to misspell this one. As for sources: even the French have sometimes difficulties typesetting an "É"; some English-language publications have a policy not ever to use diacritical marks like accents, cédilles, etc. That does not compel this encyclopedia do make the same mistakes. --
Michael Bednarek (
talk)
12:07, 23 May 2012 (UTC)reply
Support. Although in the mechanical typesetting era it was occasionally the practice to omit accents on uppercase letters, in the modern era there is no such practical limitation. Scholarly sources, which Wikipedia should aspire to be, most commonly include such diacritics, for information and accuracy. --
P.T. Aufrette (
talk)
16:57, 23 May 2012 (UTC)reply
There's no sources in the article for the suggested usage in English, so the production of a new title would result in a SYN violation if it were to use the rationale presented. We cannot claim English usage, only French usage, without a SYN violation without references, so add an English language reference that uses the suggested title, or it is a SYN violation to claim it is English language usage.
70.24.251.208 (
talk)
03:58, 28 May 2012 (UTC)reply
CommentBesançon is not
Edouard Nanny using a different article as the basis of this article's naming because that article is
WP:UE doesn't mean that this article is using English. You have to show that this article's topic is used in English in this manner. Are we completely ignoring the need for sourcing nowadays and handwaving saying well.. oranges are oranges, so apples are oranges too? English is English, and not French. This is not the French Wikipedia, so please show usage in English. The nomination is using
WP:SYNTHESIS, which is not allowed.
70.24.251.208 (
talk)
13:25, 26 May 2012 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Classical music, which aims to improve, expand, copy edit, and maintain all articles related to
classical music, that are not covered by other classical music related projects. Please read the
guidelines for writing and maintaining articles. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the
project page for more details.Classical musicWikipedia:WikiProject Classical musicTemplate:WikiProject Classical musicClassical music articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject France, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
France on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FranceWikipedia:WikiProject FranceTemplate:WikiProject FranceFrance articles
Fyunck, I'm again flattered that you are following my edits, but this isn't a tennis player or ice-hockey player therefore there is no reason that the name should be deliberately misspelled or anglicized. There is no question that this French
Édouard is the same as every other French Édouard. Do you know anything about
French orthography?
Pièce sur le nom d'Édouard Nanny: pour contrebasse et piano. E. Bozza - 1956 - A. Leduc
You should be flattered. If I see strange edits by a person or vandalizing I also take a quick peek to make sure they didn't do more. In this case yes...you overstepped your bounds. I won't move it back because I saw many English sources that that spelled it Edouard Nanny, including sheet music. Not being a music aficionado I though the music experts on wikipedia should have a look to make sure, before it is moved along with your thousands of other page moves.
Fyunck(click) (
talk)
04:02, 23 May 2012 (UTC)reply
Fyunck, I don't think there is a large constituency for the idea that that spelling a French name with with the correct spelling Édouard on en.wp is "vandalism," and none of your arguments that this is a
WP:STAGENAME apply given that Édouard Nanny, to the best of my knowledge, never registered with the ITF to play tennis at Wimbledon :), however if it makes you happy I will burden
WP:RM with another discussion on diacritics.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
06:30, 23 May 2012 (UTC)reply
This particular case is not vandalism, and I didn't label it as such. I just wanted to make sure the music project knew about it and it wasn't just sneaked by as a spelling change.
Fyunck(click) (
talk)
08:11, 23 May 2012 (UTC)reply
Requested move
The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
Edouard Nanny →
Édouard Nanny – per
French orthography and
WP:UE example of
Besançon. French composer, move contested by WikiProject Tennis editor Fyunck. Even though the old metal typeface used on the cover of his Méthode complète pour la contrebasse à quatre et cinq cordes (1920) does not display the É majuscule, still the spelling of this Édouard as all other French
Édouards is confirmed by E. Bozza Pièce sur le nom d'Édouard Nanny: pour contrebasse et piano. A. Leduc 1956.
In ictu oculi (
talk)
07:02, 23 May 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment - Love your Tennis Project dig... typical of you. I just wanted to make sure the Music Project had a chance to question this. I saw plenty of English sources that had the "'Edouard Nanny'" spelling... sheet music etc... and the Music Project may or may not agree with the request to change to a foreign alphabet. I thought they would know better than anyone else and didn't want it to just slip through the cracks.
Fyunck(click) (
talk)
08:16, 23 May 2012 (UTC)reply
Oppose, as this is the English language Wikipedia & there's no diacritics in the English alphabet. The French title belongs 'only' at French language Wikipedia.
GoodDay (
talk)
10:10, 23 May 2012 (UTC)reply
Support – As with all the other people named "Édouard", there is no reason to misspell this one. As for sources: even the French have sometimes difficulties typesetting an "É"; some English-language publications have a policy not ever to use diacritical marks like accents, cédilles, etc. That does not compel this encyclopedia do make the same mistakes. --
Michael Bednarek (
talk)
12:07, 23 May 2012 (UTC)reply
Support. Although in the mechanical typesetting era it was occasionally the practice to omit accents on uppercase letters, in the modern era there is no such practical limitation. Scholarly sources, which Wikipedia should aspire to be, most commonly include such diacritics, for information and accuracy. --
P.T. Aufrette (
talk)
16:57, 23 May 2012 (UTC)reply
There's no sources in the article for the suggested usage in English, so the production of a new title would result in a SYN violation if it were to use the rationale presented. We cannot claim English usage, only French usage, without a SYN violation without references, so add an English language reference that uses the suggested title, or it is a SYN violation to claim it is English language usage.
70.24.251.208 (
talk)
03:58, 28 May 2012 (UTC)reply
CommentBesançon is not
Edouard Nanny using a different article as the basis of this article's naming because that article is
WP:UE doesn't mean that this article is using English. You have to show that this article's topic is used in English in this manner. Are we completely ignoring the need for sourcing nowadays and handwaving saying well.. oranges are oranges, so apples are oranges too? English is English, and not French. This is not the French Wikipedia, so please show usage in English. The nomination is using
WP:SYNTHESIS, which is not allowed.
70.24.251.208 (
talk)
13:25, 26 May 2012 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.