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Does anyone know that Éamon Ó Cuív gave a speech in Dáil Éireann in 1997 that called for Ireland to rejoin the British Commonwealth? If anyone can find the text of this speech, which raised more than a few eyebrows, it would be of interest to a lot of people. ( Aidan Work 01:56, 18 November 2005 (UTC))
I have added a profile. See 'External Link.' at the bottom of the article. - ( Aidan Work 02:59, 14 December 2005 (UTC))
Is his surname "officially" in Irish - because there is no letter 'v' in the Gaelic alphabet. Bastun 00:02, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Yes, it is. His father was the one and only Brian Ó Cuív, and his grandfather was John Ó Cuív, a Cork journalist. It was the latter who, in the early 20th century, changed the spelling from Ó Caoimh to Ó Cuív because he favoured a more simplified spelling system. This is according to Diarmaid Breathnach writing in a letter to The Irish Times in the past 18 months. Although personally I remember reading a satirical magazine years ago called The Phoenix magazine. The writer there pointed out that on the ballot paper in Conamara he is down as 'Cuív, Éamon', with the 'Ó' dropped. (statistically, the nearer your surname is to the letter 'A' on the alphabetical listing that is the ballot paper, the higher is your chance of being elected). El Gringo 22:12, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
It never ceases to amaze me how many times non-Irish speakers claim there is no 'v' in the Irish alphabet. This is utter nonsense. Words containing 'v' are listed in Ó Dónaill, de Bhaldraithe, An Caighdeán Oifigiúil and in Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithre Críostaí to name a few as well as in thousands of terms on focal.ie. Éamon Ó Cuív's grandfather Seán (or 'Shán Ó Cuív') as he spelled it in his own simplified spelling) published a number of books in his 'Letiriú Simplí'. 'Ó Cuív' is very much the official spelling of the minister's surname and is objected to by none apart from the aforementioned non-Irish speakers. But, as they say, alas, 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'. An Muimhneach Machnamhach 17:14, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
a á b c d e é f g h i í l m n o ó p r s t u ú; Modern loanwords also make use of j k q v w x y z. Of these, j and v are the most common. The letters' names are spelt out thus:"
"Modern loanwords" they may be but they are still integral Irish language words which have been in the language for over fifty years AND are accepted by all of the sources previously mentioned thus making 'v' as much an Irish letter as any other. New words are being devised all the time by An Coiste Téarmaíochta containing v, w, y etc. "Those selfsame Christian Brothers" you speak of seem to have no problem at all listing 'v' as a letter in the Irish language. See for yourself in Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithre Críostaí, page 1. On page 121 of Gramadach na Gaeilge agus Litriú na Gaeilge: An Caighdeán Oifigiúil, a detailed account is given of what positions in words 'v' is used.
"There are any number of ways of rendering a 'v' sound, but none depend on using a letter 'v'." I presume you're referring here to 'bh' or 'mh' instead of 'v'. Now there was a very sound historic and linguistic reason for introducing 'v' into Irish in the first place. 'Bh' and 'mh' in Irish exist only as the lenited forms of 'b' and 'm' respectively. Now, are you suggesting that words such as 'vóitín', 'vácarnach' and 'vuinsciú' be spelled 'bhóitín' or 'mhóitín', 'bhácarnach' or 'mhácarnach', 'bhuinsciú' or 'mhuinsciú' in spite of the fact that the phonemes /b/ or /m/ never existed in these words historically/. And how about the risk of 'bh' or 'mh' being mistakenly taken for /w/ by learners? How do you bypass that problem? Are we writing Irish here or Scottish Gaelic? Should we just abandon a spelling convention that has worked without any problems for almost fifty years? An Muimhneach Machnamhach 20:01, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
The claim that there is no V in the Irish alphabet is absurd, whatever you may have been taught in school. At best, one can say that the letter V is not usually used in words of native Goidelic origin, and that it wasn't used in Gaelic script. But that fact is far too tangential to the topic of Éamon Ó Cuív to be worth mentioning in this article. — An gr 21:18, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
To Bastún: Yes, I know full well what "Gaeilgeoir" means and know that it is considered derogatory when used in English and also commonly in Irish. I also believe that anyone choosing that particular word in preference to "Irish speaker" understands all too well the connotations it carries. You implied that the staff of Rannóg an Aistriúcháin are "Gaeilgeoirí" handing down "diktats". So everyone who works there is, in your own words, a "Irish-language zealot who won't give you any credit for trying to learn or use the language but will condemn you if you get anything the slightest bit wrong." I for one find that highly offensive. You have claimed several times that 'v' does not exist in Irish orthography and is not taught in the school curriculum. I have asked you to produce evidence for these bizarre claims and you have failed to do so. You instead come back with the following pearl of erudition: "Because when I was going to school, there wasn't a 'v' or 'y' in Irish. Loanwords aside - there still isn't." So, there you have it. Irish doesn't have 'v' or 'y' because you say so. Nuff said. Case closed. So your antediluvian remembrances are to be valued higher than the work of scholars and translators over many years. Wonderful. And of course it's all rounded off with the typical whinge of the monoglot English speaker: "It's de government's fault I can't speak Irish!! Blame de schools!! Blame de meeja!! Blame de Gailgore zealots!!" etc. etc. etc. An Muimhneach Machnamhach 18:23, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
You seem to be incapable of seeing the incongruity between accepting that headwords beginning with and/or containing ‘v’, ‘x’, ‘y’ and ‘z’ are listed in Ó Dónaill and An Caighdeán Oifigiúil and claiming yet again (sigh . . . ) that there is no ‘v’ in the Irish alphabet. The orthography used by Niall Ó Dónaill and in An Caighdeán Oifigiúil IS the orthography of the Modern Irish language!! As for the Irish orthography article stating that ‘v’, ‘x’ etc. only exist in loanwords, that may be true of ‘x’, ‘y’ and ‘z’ but not strictly true of ‘v’. In what way is vácarnach a loanword for example? From which language has it been borrowed? Or how about vrác? And the sounds represented by both ‘z’ and ‘x’ and ‘y’ already exist in native spoken Irish (in the case of ‘z’ in West Muskerry and possibly other dialects). And even if most words containing ‘v’ are borrowings from other languages which have been irishised, does that make them any less Irish? If that were the case, we would have to ‘cleanse’ the language of thousands of loanwords such as leabhar, scríobh, eaglais (Latin), buntáiste, saghas, sóinseáil (English), seol, stiúir, sceir (Old Norse), séipéal, seomra (French), Gael (Welsh), síciatraí (Greek), etc. etc. etc.
Who exactly is this school teacher you speak of? What authority does he or she have to dictate to the likes of Niall Ó Dónaill? What qualifies him or her to know more about Irish orthography than a scholar and linguist of his calibre and that of countless other translators, linguists and scholars who work with and through the language every day?
Who are these people who are blissfully unaware of the existence of ‘v’ in Irish orthography? Might they be the virtual monoglot anglophones that make up the mass of the population? Those who who can vaguely remember ‘Dia duit’ or ‘Go raibh maith agat’ from their schooldays and little else? And, tell me this, how many would be unaware of the existence of ‘v’ in véarsa or veidhlín or vóta for example? Have you evidence to back up any of your claims, it would be nice to see some for a change. An Muimhneach Machnamhach 13:47, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Well, somebody here clearly has a chip on the shoulder concerning the Irish language. Grow up: your failures are your responsibility. It is not your teachers', and not the system's. Have the courage, character and decency to accept that. Pathetic. If any language is "rammed down" anybody's throat in this country it is English, a point any Irish speaker will attest to when it comes to attempting to use Irish in business with both states in this country. In the minds of the bigot, of course, black really is white. 86.42.98.32 ( talk) 03:44, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
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Does anyone know that Éamon Ó Cuív gave a speech in Dáil Éireann in 1997 that called for Ireland to rejoin the British Commonwealth? If anyone can find the text of this speech, which raised more than a few eyebrows, it would be of interest to a lot of people. ( Aidan Work 01:56, 18 November 2005 (UTC))
I have added a profile. See 'External Link.' at the bottom of the article. - ( Aidan Work 02:59, 14 December 2005 (UTC))
Is his surname "officially" in Irish - because there is no letter 'v' in the Gaelic alphabet. Bastun 00:02, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
Yes, it is. His father was the one and only Brian Ó Cuív, and his grandfather was John Ó Cuív, a Cork journalist. It was the latter who, in the early 20th century, changed the spelling from Ó Caoimh to Ó Cuív because he favoured a more simplified spelling system. This is according to Diarmaid Breathnach writing in a letter to The Irish Times in the past 18 months. Although personally I remember reading a satirical magazine years ago called The Phoenix magazine. The writer there pointed out that on the ballot paper in Conamara he is down as 'Cuív, Éamon', with the 'Ó' dropped. (statistically, the nearer your surname is to the letter 'A' on the alphabetical listing that is the ballot paper, the higher is your chance of being elected). El Gringo 22:12, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
It never ceases to amaze me how many times non-Irish speakers claim there is no 'v' in the Irish alphabet. This is utter nonsense. Words containing 'v' are listed in Ó Dónaill, de Bhaldraithe, An Caighdeán Oifigiúil and in Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithre Críostaí to name a few as well as in thousands of terms on focal.ie. Éamon Ó Cuív's grandfather Seán (or 'Shán Ó Cuív') as he spelled it in his own simplified spelling) published a number of books in his 'Letiriú Simplí'. 'Ó Cuív' is very much the official spelling of the minister's surname and is objected to by none apart from the aforementioned non-Irish speakers. But, as they say, alas, 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'. An Muimhneach Machnamhach 17:14, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
a á b c d e é f g h i í l m n o ó p r s t u ú; Modern loanwords also make use of j k q v w x y z. Of these, j and v are the most common. The letters' names are spelt out thus:"
"Modern loanwords" they may be but they are still integral Irish language words which have been in the language for over fifty years AND are accepted by all of the sources previously mentioned thus making 'v' as much an Irish letter as any other. New words are being devised all the time by An Coiste Téarmaíochta containing v, w, y etc. "Those selfsame Christian Brothers" you speak of seem to have no problem at all listing 'v' as a letter in the Irish language. See for yourself in Graiméar Gaeilge na mBráithre Críostaí, page 1. On page 121 of Gramadach na Gaeilge agus Litriú na Gaeilge: An Caighdeán Oifigiúil, a detailed account is given of what positions in words 'v' is used.
"There are any number of ways of rendering a 'v' sound, but none depend on using a letter 'v'." I presume you're referring here to 'bh' or 'mh' instead of 'v'. Now there was a very sound historic and linguistic reason for introducing 'v' into Irish in the first place. 'Bh' and 'mh' in Irish exist only as the lenited forms of 'b' and 'm' respectively. Now, are you suggesting that words such as 'vóitín', 'vácarnach' and 'vuinsciú' be spelled 'bhóitín' or 'mhóitín', 'bhácarnach' or 'mhácarnach', 'bhuinsciú' or 'mhuinsciú' in spite of the fact that the phonemes /b/ or /m/ never existed in these words historically/. And how about the risk of 'bh' or 'mh' being mistakenly taken for /w/ by learners? How do you bypass that problem? Are we writing Irish here or Scottish Gaelic? Should we just abandon a spelling convention that has worked without any problems for almost fifty years? An Muimhneach Machnamhach 20:01, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
The claim that there is no V in the Irish alphabet is absurd, whatever you may have been taught in school. At best, one can say that the letter V is not usually used in words of native Goidelic origin, and that it wasn't used in Gaelic script. But that fact is far too tangential to the topic of Éamon Ó Cuív to be worth mentioning in this article. — An gr 21:18, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
To Bastún: Yes, I know full well what "Gaeilgeoir" means and know that it is considered derogatory when used in English and also commonly in Irish. I also believe that anyone choosing that particular word in preference to "Irish speaker" understands all too well the connotations it carries. You implied that the staff of Rannóg an Aistriúcháin are "Gaeilgeoirí" handing down "diktats". So everyone who works there is, in your own words, a "Irish-language zealot who won't give you any credit for trying to learn or use the language but will condemn you if you get anything the slightest bit wrong." I for one find that highly offensive. You have claimed several times that 'v' does not exist in Irish orthography and is not taught in the school curriculum. I have asked you to produce evidence for these bizarre claims and you have failed to do so. You instead come back with the following pearl of erudition: "Because when I was going to school, there wasn't a 'v' or 'y' in Irish. Loanwords aside - there still isn't." So, there you have it. Irish doesn't have 'v' or 'y' because you say so. Nuff said. Case closed. So your antediluvian remembrances are to be valued higher than the work of scholars and translators over many years. Wonderful. And of course it's all rounded off with the typical whinge of the monoglot English speaker: "It's de government's fault I can't speak Irish!! Blame de schools!! Blame de meeja!! Blame de Gailgore zealots!!" etc. etc. etc. An Muimhneach Machnamhach 18:23, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
You seem to be incapable of seeing the incongruity between accepting that headwords beginning with and/or containing ‘v’, ‘x’, ‘y’ and ‘z’ are listed in Ó Dónaill and An Caighdeán Oifigiúil and claiming yet again (sigh . . . ) that there is no ‘v’ in the Irish alphabet. The orthography used by Niall Ó Dónaill and in An Caighdeán Oifigiúil IS the orthography of the Modern Irish language!! As for the Irish orthography article stating that ‘v’, ‘x’ etc. only exist in loanwords, that may be true of ‘x’, ‘y’ and ‘z’ but not strictly true of ‘v’. In what way is vácarnach a loanword for example? From which language has it been borrowed? Or how about vrác? And the sounds represented by both ‘z’ and ‘x’ and ‘y’ already exist in native spoken Irish (in the case of ‘z’ in West Muskerry and possibly other dialects). And even if most words containing ‘v’ are borrowings from other languages which have been irishised, does that make them any less Irish? If that were the case, we would have to ‘cleanse’ the language of thousands of loanwords such as leabhar, scríobh, eaglais (Latin), buntáiste, saghas, sóinseáil (English), seol, stiúir, sceir (Old Norse), séipéal, seomra (French), Gael (Welsh), síciatraí (Greek), etc. etc. etc.
Who exactly is this school teacher you speak of? What authority does he or she have to dictate to the likes of Niall Ó Dónaill? What qualifies him or her to know more about Irish orthography than a scholar and linguist of his calibre and that of countless other translators, linguists and scholars who work with and through the language every day?
Who are these people who are blissfully unaware of the existence of ‘v’ in Irish orthography? Might they be the virtual monoglot anglophones that make up the mass of the population? Those who who can vaguely remember ‘Dia duit’ or ‘Go raibh maith agat’ from their schooldays and little else? And, tell me this, how many would be unaware of the existence of ‘v’ in véarsa or veidhlín or vóta for example? Have you evidence to back up any of your claims, it would be nice to see some for a change. An Muimhneach Machnamhach 13:47, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Well, somebody here clearly has a chip on the shoulder concerning the Irish language. Grow up: your failures are your responsibility. It is not your teachers', and not the system's. Have the courage, character and decency to accept that. Pathetic. If any language is "rammed down" anybody's throat in this country it is English, a point any Irish speaker will attest to when it comes to attempting to use Irish in business with both states in this country. In the minds of the bigot, of course, black really is white. 86.42.98.32 ( talk) 03:44, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
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