The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Article (
|
visual edit |
history) ·
Article talk (
|
history) ·
Watch
Reviewer: Mujinga ( talk · contribs) 18:22, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
Hi I'll take this on as part of the August 2023 GAN Backlog Drive. Mujinga ( talk) 18:22, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
Good Article review progress box
|
Earwig doesn't give hits, but most sources are in foreign languages, so I'll keep my eyes peeled for close paraphrasing
I've been trying to do excerpts here because I think that's more manageable but for most of the Swedish sources, I have Swedish and English translations in a big messy text file. Earwig let's you run an article here against any URL, so if you have a place to temporarily host it, I could email you the concatenated text. If you're interested, just let me know, and I'll send it, Rjjiii ( talk) 04:29, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
On this version
After the interview, Semitjov sent the purportedly discarded quartz to the mineralogical department at Stockholm University. Semitjov did not disclose the provenance of the quartz to the researchers, who found it to be completely mundane.[8]: 219- hmm yes can't get hold of this source. do you have it as a pdf or could write down the sentence(s) these claims are based on from p219? thanks!
- Här hittade jag den där saken som flickan hade kastat. - Vad var det? - En kort stav av ljust graviolett kvarts. Fyrkantig, 4 centimeter tjock, 7 centimeter lang. Den var bränd eller smält i ena änden. [- Here I found that thing that the girl had thrown away. - What was that? - A short rod of light graviolite quartz. Square, 4 centimeters thick, 7 centimeters long. It was burnt or melted at one end.]" And the clearest version of the conclusion on 221 is, "
Att hela föremalet är homogent till sin sammansättning visar att ingen del varit uppsmält och hastigt avkyld. Kvarts, kemisk formel SiO2, är den mest förekommande oxiden och ett av jordskorpans vanligaste mineral. Utlátander är undertecknat: Thom Bergh, fil.kand." I thought posting excerpts would be easiest, but can send transcribed pages as well if you need them. Rjjiii ( talk) 20:32, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
Ett av jordskorpans vanligaste mineral... [That the entire object is homogeneous in its composition shows that no part has been melted and quickly cooled. Quartz, chemical formula SiO2, is the most abundant oxide and one of the most common minerals in the earth's crust. Statements are signed: Thom Bergh, Ph.D.
One of the most common minerals in the earth's crust...]
According to Svahn, there was no convincing evidence that the event occurred as described by Carlsson. Svahn has described typical alien abductions as "stories [that] originate in inner experiences rather than in an external, physical reality" ("berättelserna har sitt ursprung i inre upplevelser snarare än i en yttre, fysisk verklighet").- here i think the swedish would be better in a quotation in the citation. however, i also wonder what makes http://www.ufo.se a reliable source? and svahn appears to have written parts of this but has he written this bit? the quote is backed by source
Svahn ägnade själv exempelvis åtta år åt att samla material till och skriva Gösta ”Pollenkungen” Carlssons biografi. Receptet till den pollenmedicin som gjorde honom till miljonär, och gav honom möjligheten att göra Rögle till Sveriges första professionella hockeylag, påstod han sig fått från några utomjordingar som landat i en glänta utanför Ängelholm. De hundratals timmarna bandade intervjuer resulterade i boken Mötet i gläntan (1995), som blev en storsäljare. Åtminstone i Ängelholm. Att Carlsson någonsin träffade några aliens tror inte Svahn. [Svahn himself, for example, spent eight years collecting material for and writing Gösta "Pollenkungen" Carlsson's biography. The recipe for the pollen medicine that made him a millionaire, and gave him the opportunity to make Rögle Sweden's first professional hockey team, he claimed to have received from some aliens who landed in a clearing outside Ängelholm. The hundreds of hours of taped interviews resulted in the book Mötet i gläntan (1995), which became a bestseller. At least in Ängelholm. Svahn does not believe that Carlsson ever met any aliens.]" And I've changed the article's text to, "
After years of research and over a hundred hours of interviews, Svahn came away disbelieving the encounter,[11] but not doubting Carlsson's conviction." This is a little less clear but also leaning on a higher quality source than what is a kind of online press release. Rjjiii ( talk) 05:27, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
Carlsson both maintained that the events occurred and acknowledged that they might sound like dreams to others. He additionally connected the Kronoskogen encounter to subsequent fainting spells, nightmares, and feeling as if his skull were an overloaded radio receiver- quote is backed by source, please use double apostrophes. 11 is the same as 8, so I'm wondering why you gave a quote here and not on the other mentions? the quoted source backs some stuff but not "Carlsson both maintained that the events occurred and acknowledged that they might sound like dreams to others" and not "fainting spells"
-Folk kommer väl att säga att jag har drömt allt det här, säger Gösta Carlsson. Men jag kan gá ed pá att det var verklighet. [- People will probably say that I have dreamed all this, says Gösta Carlsson. But I can swear it was real.]" and on 225: "
- Jag vet inte om de här drömmarna har nágon som helst betydelse, om de bara är inbillning och nonsens, säger Gösta Carlsson. Kanske är det bara min fantasi som har lekt vidare i sömnen - som en följd av mötet med den underliga farkosten i skogsgläntan. [- I don't know if these dreams have any meaning, if they are just imagination and nonsense, says Gösta Carlsson. Perhaps it is only my imagination that has played on in my sleep - as a result of the encounter with the strange craft in the forest clearing.]". And for fainting spells, there is on 224: "
Det gick väl nästan att ár innan samma sak hände pá nytt. En kväll, just när jag gled in i sömnen, bördjade jag urskilja den svarta "bälgkameran". Egendomligt nog kom jag ihág min föresats att försöka vakna. Halvvaken och yr satte jag mig upp i sängen. Jag kände en brännande törst och gick ut i köket för att dricka ett glas vatten. I samma stund som jag skulle vrida pá kranen svimmade jag, föll baklänges och slogy högra axeln i väggen. Min fru som vaknat av dunsen kom för att hjälpa mig upp. Men jag kunde inte vakna helt. Jag svimmade för andra gángen och blev hängande över trappräcket. [It was almost a year before the same thing happened again. One evening, just as I was drifting off to sleep, I began to make out the black "bellows camera". Oddly enough, I remembered my intention to try to wake up. Half awake and dizzy, I sat up in bed. I felt a burning thirst and went into the kitchen to drink a glass of water. At the same moment that I was going to turn the faucet, I fainted, fell backwards and hit my right shoulder on the wall. My wife, who had woken up from the thud, came to help me up. But I couldn't fully wake up. I passed out for the second time and ended up hanging over the banister.]"
Guided tours began hiking to the area in 1996, the 50th anniversary of Carlsson's reported sighting, and the year after Mötet i gläntan was published. Swedish actress and former tour guide Catherine Jeppsson [sv] said that the story was appealing because Carlsson "wasn't just anyone, and the fact that he also claimed that he had the aliens to thank for everything didn't make the story any worse".[15]- checked, ok except for "and the year after Mötet i gläntan was published" - I don't see that, but i also can't get past the paywall
Carlsson shows for the first time the staff and the ring the hand claims to have received from aliens exactly 50 years ago."
In a glass display case guarded by two Securitas guards is the staff ..."
The display of Gösta Carlsson's mythical ring and rod is made in connection with the National Organization UFO-Sweden holding a national meeting in Ängelholm for two days."
Clas Svahn, chairman of UFO-Sweden, says that the purpose of the organization is to critically examine the UFO phenomenon. " We have no favorite hypothesis..."
Clas Svahn is probably the person who has studied Gösta Carlsson's history the most. A couple of years ago, he wrote a book about the incident. In connection with this work, he read pretty much everything that had ever been written about the "Pollen King" and had many long conversations with him.
A plaque beside a nearby pit claims the ship's crew used it as a temporary grave.[12]- this goes to
Gravplats [Graves] (on-site plaque) (in Swedish). Ängelholm, Sweden: pollenkungen.se. I denna grop begravdes tillfälligt tvá döda besättningsmän medan det skedade rymdskeppet reparerades. [Two dead crew members were temporarily buried in this pit meanwhile the spaceship was repaired.]which isn't a citation as such. the information in the article thus needs to be cited. also how does this interact with the caption that says the plaque reads "A UFO landed and took off at this location on May 18, 1946. All cement markings are cast exactly according to existing impressions in the ground and according to the dimensional sketch, which an eyewitness to the event drew up on May 19, 1946. Vegeholm 1–9 1972. Gösta Carlsson"? I'd also suggest replacing meanwhile with while
A 2015 initiative allowed Ängelholm Municipality to maintain the privately-owned site. Workers cleared encroaching plants, replaced rotten wood benches, and repaired the cement paths on the forest floor." This puts it into the past tense, but hopefully has less of an implication about the current situation. Rjjiii ( talk) 02:34, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
I've addressed these except for "who is the private owner" and "I'd suggest adding info from 15". I'll take a look at those later. I know that Carlsson would not have been the owner when that article was written, so I need to look around and find out if there is reliable info on who does own the area and what their relationship is with Carlsson and his estate. Rjjiii ( talk) 21:49, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Article (
|
visual edit |
history) ·
Article talk (
|
history) ·
Watch
Reviewer: Mujinga ( talk · contribs) 18:22, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
Hi I'll take this on as part of the August 2023 GAN Backlog Drive. Mujinga ( talk) 18:22, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
Good Article review progress box
|
Earwig doesn't give hits, but most sources are in foreign languages, so I'll keep my eyes peeled for close paraphrasing
I've been trying to do excerpts here because I think that's more manageable but for most of the Swedish sources, I have Swedish and English translations in a big messy text file. Earwig let's you run an article here against any URL, so if you have a place to temporarily host it, I could email you the concatenated text. If you're interested, just let me know, and I'll send it, Rjjiii ( talk) 04:29, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
On this version
After the interview, Semitjov sent the purportedly discarded quartz to the mineralogical department at Stockholm University. Semitjov did not disclose the provenance of the quartz to the researchers, who found it to be completely mundane.[8]: 219- hmm yes can't get hold of this source. do you have it as a pdf or could write down the sentence(s) these claims are based on from p219? thanks!
- Här hittade jag den där saken som flickan hade kastat. - Vad var det? - En kort stav av ljust graviolett kvarts. Fyrkantig, 4 centimeter tjock, 7 centimeter lang. Den var bränd eller smält i ena änden. [- Here I found that thing that the girl had thrown away. - What was that? - A short rod of light graviolite quartz. Square, 4 centimeters thick, 7 centimeters long. It was burnt or melted at one end.]" And the clearest version of the conclusion on 221 is, "
Att hela föremalet är homogent till sin sammansättning visar att ingen del varit uppsmält och hastigt avkyld. Kvarts, kemisk formel SiO2, är den mest förekommande oxiden och ett av jordskorpans vanligaste mineral. Utlátander är undertecknat: Thom Bergh, fil.kand." I thought posting excerpts would be easiest, but can send transcribed pages as well if you need them. Rjjiii ( talk) 20:32, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
Ett av jordskorpans vanligaste mineral... [That the entire object is homogeneous in its composition shows that no part has been melted and quickly cooled. Quartz, chemical formula SiO2, is the most abundant oxide and one of the most common minerals in the earth's crust. Statements are signed: Thom Bergh, Ph.D.
One of the most common minerals in the earth's crust...]
According to Svahn, there was no convincing evidence that the event occurred as described by Carlsson. Svahn has described typical alien abductions as "stories [that] originate in inner experiences rather than in an external, physical reality" ("berättelserna har sitt ursprung i inre upplevelser snarare än i en yttre, fysisk verklighet").- here i think the swedish would be better in a quotation in the citation. however, i also wonder what makes http://www.ufo.se a reliable source? and svahn appears to have written parts of this but has he written this bit? the quote is backed by source
Svahn ägnade själv exempelvis åtta år åt att samla material till och skriva Gösta ”Pollenkungen” Carlssons biografi. Receptet till den pollenmedicin som gjorde honom till miljonär, och gav honom möjligheten att göra Rögle till Sveriges första professionella hockeylag, påstod han sig fått från några utomjordingar som landat i en glänta utanför Ängelholm. De hundratals timmarna bandade intervjuer resulterade i boken Mötet i gläntan (1995), som blev en storsäljare. Åtminstone i Ängelholm. Att Carlsson någonsin träffade några aliens tror inte Svahn. [Svahn himself, for example, spent eight years collecting material for and writing Gösta "Pollenkungen" Carlsson's biography. The recipe for the pollen medicine that made him a millionaire, and gave him the opportunity to make Rögle Sweden's first professional hockey team, he claimed to have received from some aliens who landed in a clearing outside Ängelholm. The hundreds of hours of taped interviews resulted in the book Mötet i gläntan (1995), which became a bestseller. At least in Ängelholm. Svahn does not believe that Carlsson ever met any aliens.]" And I've changed the article's text to, "
After years of research and over a hundred hours of interviews, Svahn came away disbelieving the encounter,[11] but not doubting Carlsson's conviction." This is a little less clear but also leaning on a higher quality source than what is a kind of online press release. Rjjiii ( talk) 05:27, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
Carlsson both maintained that the events occurred and acknowledged that they might sound like dreams to others. He additionally connected the Kronoskogen encounter to subsequent fainting spells, nightmares, and feeling as if his skull were an overloaded radio receiver- quote is backed by source, please use double apostrophes. 11 is the same as 8, so I'm wondering why you gave a quote here and not on the other mentions? the quoted source backs some stuff but not "Carlsson both maintained that the events occurred and acknowledged that they might sound like dreams to others" and not "fainting spells"
-Folk kommer väl att säga att jag har drömt allt det här, säger Gösta Carlsson. Men jag kan gá ed pá att det var verklighet. [- People will probably say that I have dreamed all this, says Gösta Carlsson. But I can swear it was real.]" and on 225: "
- Jag vet inte om de här drömmarna har nágon som helst betydelse, om de bara är inbillning och nonsens, säger Gösta Carlsson. Kanske är det bara min fantasi som har lekt vidare i sömnen - som en följd av mötet med den underliga farkosten i skogsgläntan. [- I don't know if these dreams have any meaning, if they are just imagination and nonsense, says Gösta Carlsson. Perhaps it is only my imagination that has played on in my sleep - as a result of the encounter with the strange craft in the forest clearing.]". And for fainting spells, there is on 224: "
Det gick väl nästan att ár innan samma sak hände pá nytt. En kväll, just när jag gled in i sömnen, bördjade jag urskilja den svarta "bälgkameran". Egendomligt nog kom jag ihág min föresats att försöka vakna. Halvvaken och yr satte jag mig upp i sängen. Jag kände en brännande törst och gick ut i köket för att dricka ett glas vatten. I samma stund som jag skulle vrida pá kranen svimmade jag, föll baklänges och slogy högra axeln i väggen. Min fru som vaknat av dunsen kom för att hjälpa mig upp. Men jag kunde inte vakna helt. Jag svimmade för andra gángen och blev hängande över trappräcket. [It was almost a year before the same thing happened again. One evening, just as I was drifting off to sleep, I began to make out the black "bellows camera". Oddly enough, I remembered my intention to try to wake up. Half awake and dizzy, I sat up in bed. I felt a burning thirst and went into the kitchen to drink a glass of water. At the same moment that I was going to turn the faucet, I fainted, fell backwards and hit my right shoulder on the wall. My wife, who had woken up from the thud, came to help me up. But I couldn't fully wake up. I passed out for the second time and ended up hanging over the banister.]"
Guided tours began hiking to the area in 1996, the 50th anniversary of Carlsson's reported sighting, and the year after Mötet i gläntan was published. Swedish actress and former tour guide Catherine Jeppsson [sv] said that the story was appealing because Carlsson "wasn't just anyone, and the fact that he also claimed that he had the aliens to thank for everything didn't make the story any worse".[15]- checked, ok except for "and the year after Mötet i gläntan was published" - I don't see that, but i also can't get past the paywall
Carlsson shows for the first time the staff and the ring the hand claims to have received from aliens exactly 50 years ago."
In a glass display case guarded by two Securitas guards is the staff ..."
The display of Gösta Carlsson's mythical ring and rod is made in connection with the National Organization UFO-Sweden holding a national meeting in Ängelholm for two days."
Clas Svahn, chairman of UFO-Sweden, says that the purpose of the organization is to critically examine the UFO phenomenon. " We have no favorite hypothesis..."
Clas Svahn is probably the person who has studied Gösta Carlsson's history the most. A couple of years ago, he wrote a book about the incident. In connection with this work, he read pretty much everything that had ever been written about the "Pollen King" and had many long conversations with him.
A plaque beside a nearby pit claims the ship's crew used it as a temporary grave.[12]- this goes to
Gravplats [Graves] (on-site plaque) (in Swedish). Ängelholm, Sweden: pollenkungen.se. I denna grop begravdes tillfälligt tvá döda besättningsmän medan det skedade rymdskeppet reparerades. [Two dead crew members were temporarily buried in this pit meanwhile the spaceship was repaired.]which isn't a citation as such. the information in the article thus needs to be cited. also how does this interact with the caption that says the plaque reads "A UFO landed and took off at this location on May 18, 1946. All cement markings are cast exactly according to existing impressions in the ground and according to the dimensional sketch, which an eyewitness to the event drew up on May 19, 1946. Vegeholm 1–9 1972. Gösta Carlsson"? I'd also suggest replacing meanwhile with while
A 2015 initiative allowed Ängelholm Municipality to maintain the privately-owned site. Workers cleared encroaching plants, replaced rotten wood benches, and repaired the cement paths on the forest floor." This puts it into the past tense, but hopefully has less of an implication about the current situation. Rjjiii ( talk) 02:34, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
I've addressed these except for "who is the private owner" and "I'd suggest adding info from 15". I'll take a look at those later. I know that Carlsson would not have been the owner when that article was written, so I need to look around and find out if there is reliable info on who does own the area and what their relationship is with Carlsson and his estate. Rjjiii ( talk) 21:49, 6 August 2023 (UTC)