This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Nagorno-Karabakh conflict detailed map module. |
|
![]() | To help centralise discussions and keep related topics together, Template talk:Nagorno-Karabakh conflict detailed map redirects here. |
![]() | Rules for Editing the Map
1- A reliable source for that specific edit should be provided.
2- Copying from maps is strictly prohibited. Maps from mainstream media are approximate and therefore unreliable for any edit. Maps from amateur sources are below the standards of Wikipedia for any edit. They violate WP:RS and
WP:CIRCULAR.
See also: Wikipedia:Top 10 myths about the Wikipedia Syria war map. |
The map is little bit wrong, can anyone change the map? It must shove 0.3cm to left and 0.3 cm to down. Beshogur ( talk) 16:10, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
@ Solarsuntzu: Hi! All of the sources that have been used for the recent edits are from pro-Azeri sources. International media has so far not gone further than describing the claims as claims made by Azerbaijan and not verified independently. There should be a similar basis for edits as is standard for edits on pages like the Syrian Civil War map - to require sources not potentially biased with regard to the nature of the edit. Therefore, pro-Azeri edits has to use neutral or pro-Armenian sources and vice versa. AntonSamuel ( talk) 00:44, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
@ AntonSamuel: I am wary of propaganda myself, and have been watching the conflict carefully, but as far as I can see the Azeris have backed up their claims with video evidence. I think it's fair to say they control the areas they say they do. I'd post more neutral sources if I could, but as you said outside media hasn't said anything either way on this, probably because this war isn't getting as much worldwide attention as say, Syria, is. But as for video evidence https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-bhm7Xxh74 Armenian military equipment seized by Azeri forces as they advance on Jabrayil https://twitter.com/The_DavidBudd/status/1312754117408813057 Jabrayil under Azeri control https://twitter.com/aldin_ww/status/1312500249907220481?s=21 Mataghis under azeri control
Aldin is actually a pretty decent source, he usually gives a fair take on both sides of a conflict. Although he is just a guy on twitter and not a major media organization. It's just frustrating because there's comparatively little outside media coverage of this war compared to places like Syria. I hope to fill in the map more though, I added a bunch of other towns in Artsakh (who's de facto control status isn't disputed currently) and I plan on adding more towns and cities in Armenia and Azerbaijan proper as well later Solarsuntzu ( talk) 01:59, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
I noticed that Fizuli on the map was marked as a ruined ghost town, but the article for the city shows that it has a population of over 26k as of 2010. That's why I changed it to the standard city icon, but it got reverted back to the ruins, so I have to ask, what's the status of Fizuli? Is it currently a ghost town, or not? What should it be marked as? The article for it says it has a population of 26k Solarsuntzu ( talk) 19:27, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
As Azerbaijan claim, Murovdag is under Azerbaijani control. I want to change it in the map, but unfortunately, I don't know how to. In my opinion, it's possible to display it with half green and half red. -- Ophir botzer ( talk) 18:31, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
This dynamic map is excellent! However, I recommend adding the neighbouring country names into the baseline template. Farawayman ( talk) 12:08, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
Hundreds of settlements in the Nagorno-Karabakh region are missing. There are too many roads, cities, villages. Also, thousands of cities and villages of Armenia and Azerbaijan are missing. We need detailed work like this: /info/en/?search=Template:Syrian_Civil_War_map#/media/File:Syrian_Civil_War_map.svg -- 45.135.206.249 ( talk) 00:16, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
@ CuriousGolden: Have you seen any recent news sources stating that Shosh/Shushakend is under joint Azerbaijani/Russian control? I've seen Armenian news reports about Armenian refugees arriving in Shosh and the school in the village being planned for renovation by Artsakh authorities as one of the ones still being under Armenian control, as well as an Armenian-based photographer taking photos from the town towards Shushi/Shusha. AntonSamuel ( talk) 18:30, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
@ CuriousGolden: It doesn't like seem you understand my point - you've changed the icon to half Russian half Azerbaijani control - this portrays the situation for Shosh/Shushakend such as that it would be similar to the Vang/Dadivank village - Azerbaijani control with a Russian peacekeeper presence. If we are to mark it as disputed, I would argue that it would be appropriate to change it to half Russian half Armenian control. But since you don't seem to share the same view of the likely situation on the ground from the sources provided so far - I offered to show it as under full Russian control instead - as this wouldn't state anything about either an Armenian or an Azerbaijani presence. However, if you still think that is incorrect/imprecise - we can pick another color to paint Shosh/Shushakend to display a "disputed"/"control unknown" status if you think that would be better.
Regarding Khtsaberd/Çaylaqqala: I think Khtsaberd's status is more unclear, since I haven't seen a source (including the one's from BBC and Kommersant) that were stating that "Russian troops have withdrawn from Khtsaberd" "Khtsaberd is now under full Azerbaijani control" by basing it on reports from the ground, they've only used the Russian MoD map, and I haven't seen any recent videos of/from Azerbaijani troops in the village. Or have there been such reports/videos? AntonSamuel ( talk) 20:10, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
@ CuriousGolden: While that would be better than the current situation, it would still be a bit problematic since it would convey that we have reports that Shosh would be divided between Azerbaijani and Armenian control, like Taghavard is. I've explained quite thoroghly now why it would be more correct to show full Russian control. However, as I've stated, we can choose another color for "disputed" if you like. These three options would be the options I would consider adequate from what we know so far (or for option number two - what is likely): 1) Full Russian control 2) Half Russian half Armenian/Artsakh control or 3) Disputed/Unknown control.
I've changed it to half Russian half disputed (yellow) control for now.
Tagging some of the recent experienced editors of the 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war article: @ EkoGraf:, @ AyodeleA2:, @ Eurofan88:, @ Jr8825:, @ Pauli133:, @ Wakari07:
What do you guys think is likely with regard to control of Shosh/Shushakend? What status would you guys think would be appropriate to display on the map from the sources available so far?
AntonSamuel ( talk) 20:54, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
Two Armenian videos of Shosh/Shushakend have emerged online, and further reports about the village being under Armenian/Russian peacekeeper control have emerged as well:
AntonSamuel ( talk) 15:08, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
@ AntonSamuel: Hey, I feel like the labels on the map are a bit too clumsy and all over. I was thinking we should turn off labels of most things except large cities/towns and important objects so the map looks a bit clearer. What do you think?
@ AntonSamuel: Hi, can I know what determines the size of pointers so I don't make mistakes in my future edits? — CuriousGolden (T· C) 14:17, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
@ EljanM: Thanks for your additions. But please make sure to use the actual article name in the |link= parameter instead of the transliterated name or it won't work. — CuriousGolden (T· C) 15:46, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
the map is very outdated given that Azerbaijan controls all of it now. Death Editor 2 ( talk) 18:22, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Nagorno-Karabakh conflict detailed map module. |
|
![]() | To help centralise discussions and keep related topics together, Template talk:Nagorno-Karabakh conflict detailed map redirects here. |
![]() | Rules for Editing the Map
1- A reliable source for that specific edit should be provided.
2- Copying from maps is strictly prohibited. Maps from mainstream media are approximate and therefore unreliable for any edit. Maps from amateur sources are below the standards of Wikipedia for any edit. They violate WP:RS and
WP:CIRCULAR.
See also: Wikipedia:Top 10 myths about the Wikipedia Syria war map. |
The map is little bit wrong, can anyone change the map? It must shove 0.3cm to left and 0.3 cm to down. Beshogur ( talk) 16:10, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
@ Solarsuntzu: Hi! All of the sources that have been used for the recent edits are from pro-Azeri sources. International media has so far not gone further than describing the claims as claims made by Azerbaijan and not verified independently. There should be a similar basis for edits as is standard for edits on pages like the Syrian Civil War map - to require sources not potentially biased with regard to the nature of the edit. Therefore, pro-Azeri edits has to use neutral or pro-Armenian sources and vice versa. AntonSamuel ( talk) 00:44, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
@ AntonSamuel: I am wary of propaganda myself, and have been watching the conflict carefully, but as far as I can see the Azeris have backed up their claims with video evidence. I think it's fair to say they control the areas they say they do. I'd post more neutral sources if I could, but as you said outside media hasn't said anything either way on this, probably because this war isn't getting as much worldwide attention as say, Syria, is. But as for video evidence https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-bhm7Xxh74 Armenian military equipment seized by Azeri forces as they advance on Jabrayil https://twitter.com/The_DavidBudd/status/1312754117408813057 Jabrayil under Azeri control https://twitter.com/aldin_ww/status/1312500249907220481?s=21 Mataghis under azeri control
Aldin is actually a pretty decent source, he usually gives a fair take on both sides of a conflict. Although he is just a guy on twitter and not a major media organization. It's just frustrating because there's comparatively little outside media coverage of this war compared to places like Syria. I hope to fill in the map more though, I added a bunch of other towns in Artsakh (who's de facto control status isn't disputed currently) and I plan on adding more towns and cities in Armenia and Azerbaijan proper as well later Solarsuntzu ( talk) 01:59, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
I noticed that Fizuli on the map was marked as a ruined ghost town, but the article for the city shows that it has a population of over 26k as of 2010. That's why I changed it to the standard city icon, but it got reverted back to the ruins, so I have to ask, what's the status of Fizuli? Is it currently a ghost town, or not? What should it be marked as? The article for it says it has a population of 26k Solarsuntzu ( talk) 19:27, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
As Azerbaijan claim, Murovdag is under Azerbaijani control. I want to change it in the map, but unfortunately, I don't know how to. In my opinion, it's possible to display it with half green and half red. -- Ophir botzer ( talk) 18:31, 9 October 2020 (UTC)
This dynamic map is excellent! However, I recommend adding the neighbouring country names into the baseline template. Farawayman ( talk) 12:08, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
Hundreds of settlements in the Nagorno-Karabakh region are missing. There are too many roads, cities, villages. Also, thousands of cities and villages of Armenia and Azerbaijan are missing. We need detailed work like this: /info/en/?search=Template:Syrian_Civil_War_map#/media/File:Syrian_Civil_War_map.svg -- 45.135.206.249 ( talk) 00:16, 30 October 2020 (UTC)
@ CuriousGolden: Have you seen any recent news sources stating that Shosh/Shushakend is under joint Azerbaijani/Russian control? I've seen Armenian news reports about Armenian refugees arriving in Shosh and the school in the village being planned for renovation by Artsakh authorities as one of the ones still being under Armenian control, as well as an Armenian-based photographer taking photos from the town towards Shushi/Shusha. AntonSamuel ( talk) 18:30, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
@ CuriousGolden: It doesn't like seem you understand my point - you've changed the icon to half Russian half Azerbaijani control - this portrays the situation for Shosh/Shushakend such as that it would be similar to the Vang/Dadivank village - Azerbaijani control with a Russian peacekeeper presence. If we are to mark it as disputed, I would argue that it would be appropriate to change it to half Russian half Armenian control. But since you don't seem to share the same view of the likely situation on the ground from the sources provided so far - I offered to show it as under full Russian control instead - as this wouldn't state anything about either an Armenian or an Azerbaijani presence. However, if you still think that is incorrect/imprecise - we can pick another color to paint Shosh/Shushakend to display a "disputed"/"control unknown" status if you think that would be better.
Regarding Khtsaberd/Çaylaqqala: I think Khtsaberd's status is more unclear, since I haven't seen a source (including the one's from BBC and Kommersant) that were stating that "Russian troops have withdrawn from Khtsaberd" "Khtsaberd is now under full Azerbaijani control" by basing it on reports from the ground, they've only used the Russian MoD map, and I haven't seen any recent videos of/from Azerbaijani troops in the village. Or have there been such reports/videos? AntonSamuel ( talk) 20:10, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
@ CuriousGolden: While that would be better than the current situation, it would still be a bit problematic since it would convey that we have reports that Shosh would be divided between Azerbaijani and Armenian control, like Taghavard is. I've explained quite thoroghly now why it would be more correct to show full Russian control. However, as I've stated, we can choose another color for "disputed" if you like. These three options would be the options I would consider adequate from what we know so far (or for option number two - what is likely): 1) Full Russian control 2) Half Russian half Armenian/Artsakh control or 3) Disputed/Unknown control.
I've changed it to half Russian half disputed (yellow) control for now.
Tagging some of the recent experienced editors of the 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war article: @ EkoGraf:, @ AyodeleA2:, @ Eurofan88:, @ Jr8825:, @ Pauli133:, @ Wakari07:
What do you guys think is likely with regard to control of Shosh/Shushakend? What status would you guys think would be appropriate to display on the map from the sources available so far?
AntonSamuel ( talk) 20:54, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
Two Armenian videos of Shosh/Shushakend have emerged online, and further reports about the village being under Armenian/Russian peacekeeper control have emerged as well:
AntonSamuel ( talk) 15:08, 26 December 2020 (UTC)
@ AntonSamuel: Hey, I feel like the labels on the map are a bit too clumsy and all over. I was thinking we should turn off labels of most things except large cities/towns and important objects so the map looks a bit clearer. What do you think?
@ AntonSamuel: Hi, can I know what determines the size of pointers so I don't make mistakes in my future edits? — CuriousGolden (T· C) 14:17, 8 January 2021 (UTC)
@ EljanM: Thanks for your additions. But please make sure to use the actual article name in the |link= parameter instead of the transliterated name or it won't work. — CuriousGolden (T· C) 15:46, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
the map is very outdated given that Azerbaijan controls all of it now. Death Editor 2 ( talk) 18:22, 28 October 2023 (UTC)