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The author of the article is wrong about calling [ə] and [ɐ]phonemes, as these are phonetic realizations of one phoneme. We need to select one symbol (I suggest ⟨ə⟩) to represent this phoneme and stick to it. —
Peter238 (
v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 17:39, 6 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Actually, this is apparently the realization of a number of phonemes in unstressed position. If we can determine some criteria of when it is one the other (as is the case with Russian), then I would say we list them separately and use both. Otherwise, [ə] is fine. —
Ƶ§œš¹[lɛts b̥iː pʰəˈlaɪˀt] 18:33, 6 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the correction. From what I see, there may be no criteria, and they may be in free variation. Anyway, we need a source for that. —
Peter238 (
v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 18:59, 6 March 2015 (UTC)reply
The two are in free variation; both can be realizations of /a e/. This has been one of the big issues Romansh writers have argued about when standardizing Romansh, as some preferred to analyze the unstressed vowels as /a/ and others as /e/, which influenced their spelling preference. Romansh speakers tend to use [ɐ] as the unstressed version of /a/ and [ə] as unstressed /e/, but not always. Here are two sound samples of the same speaker pronouncing orthographic <a> as [ə] in one word and [ɐ] in another: [kənˈtsʊn]ⓘ vs. [ˈkazɐ]ⓘ. "Ricarda, Liver (1999), Rätoromanisch – Eine Einführung in das Bündnerromanische" gives more information on that, but I don't have the book available right now. --
Terfili (
talk) 09:01, 9 January 2016 (UTC)reply
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This page is within the scope of the Wikipedia Help Project, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's help documentation for readers and contributors. If you would like to participate, please visit
the project page, where you can join the
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This page is within the scope of WikiProject Linguistics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
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The author of the article is wrong about calling [ə] and [ɐ]phonemes, as these are phonetic realizations of one phoneme. We need to select one symbol (I suggest ⟨ə⟩) to represent this phoneme and stick to it. —
Peter238 (
v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 17:39, 6 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Actually, this is apparently the realization of a number of phonemes in unstressed position. If we can determine some criteria of when it is one the other (as is the case with Russian), then I would say we list them separately and use both. Otherwise, [ə] is fine. —
Ƶ§œš¹[lɛts b̥iː pʰəˈlaɪˀt] 18:33, 6 March 2015 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the correction. From what I see, there may be no criteria, and they may be in free variation. Anyway, we need a source for that. —
Peter238 (
v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 18:59, 6 March 2015 (UTC)reply
The two are in free variation; both can be realizations of /a e/. This has been one of the big issues Romansh writers have argued about when standardizing Romansh, as some preferred to analyze the unstressed vowels as /a/ and others as /e/, which influenced their spelling preference. Romansh speakers tend to use [ɐ] as the unstressed version of /a/ and [ə] as unstressed /e/, but not always. Here are two sound samples of the same speaker pronouncing orthographic <a> as [ə] in one word and [ɐ] in another: [kənˈtsʊn]ⓘ vs. [ˈkazɐ]ⓘ. "Ricarda, Liver (1999), Rätoromanisch – Eine Einführung in das Bündnerromanische" gives more information on that, but I don't have the book available right now. --
Terfili (
talk) 09:01, 9 January 2016 (UTC)reply
Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on
Help talk:IPA which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —
RMCD bot 16:18, 15 July 2017 (UTC)reply
