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Some quick comments about the current draft, and especially the sources used:
But the Mughal force wasn’t unduly worried; there was utter quiet in the woods, and no enemy anywhere in sight. Suddenly, when Kartalab’s men had least expected it, there was an eerie rustling in the trees on both sides, and the Marathas appeared as if out of nowhere, showering arrows and firing their muskets. Taken aback, the Mughal side and its leaders fought valiantly, but the Marathas pounded their positions and made flight impossible. Amid the frenzied fighting, the earth turned a flaming red in the blood of the dead and the wounded.
The first histories, termed bakhars, and written in Marathi by Brahmin eulogists, were the product of the late seventeenth century to the mid-eighteenth century. The current consensus is that much of the genre was hagiographical and often confused in dating and placing events. Nevertheless, the best of this literature - the Shabasad Bakhar and the 91-Kalami Bakhar - is important both for the facts and the tone of the heroic and tragic events which form the basis of the popular history of Maharashtra. Unfortunately, many of the statements of even these two most reliable bakhars have found their way into scholarly writing without careful use of corroborating evidence.
And besides sourcing issues, the draft has lots of statements that are unsupported by even the cited sources. For example, the battle date (Sardesai dates it to 24 Jan 1661, which again I'll take with a pinch of salt); the claim that "Shivaji himself attacked the enemy in the rear"; the POV claim in wikipedia's voice that "Shivaji as the man of valour had own motto to not harm unarmed man and woman" etc. And some unparseable sentences such as "Shaista Khan ordered his... against Maratha Empire." A rewrite is needed. Abecedare ( talk) 16:10, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
About the new citation added:
Besides being another popular history by a non-expert and generic publisher, it is also a WP:CIRCULAR ref. Its description of the battle is at least in part apparently copied from the 2012 version of the wikipedia article. There are tons of such books churned out regularly ( here's another one) given the immense following Shivaji has in the state of Maharashtra. Abecedare ( talk) 16:28, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
Mughal manpower in the conflict is unknown. It is not mentioned by any of the reliable and conserved sources. It is often misleading. Ajayraj890 ( talk) 17:29, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
@ Sudsahab, before working on this article again, I suggest you to read the Battle of Umberkhind section at [1]. Also, pinging @ Abecedare. Imperial [AFCND] 08:08, 7 April 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This draft does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Some quick comments about the current draft, and especially the sources used:
But the Mughal force wasn’t unduly worried; there was utter quiet in the woods, and no enemy anywhere in sight. Suddenly, when Kartalab’s men had least expected it, there was an eerie rustling in the trees on both sides, and the Marathas appeared as if out of nowhere, showering arrows and firing their muskets. Taken aback, the Mughal side and its leaders fought valiantly, but the Marathas pounded their positions and made flight impossible. Amid the frenzied fighting, the earth turned a flaming red in the blood of the dead and the wounded.
The first histories, termed bakhars, and written in Marathi by Brahmin eulogists, were the product of the late seventeenth century to the mid-eighteenth century. The current consensus is that much of the genre was hagiographical and often confused in dating and placing events. Nevertheless, the best of this literature - the Shabasad Bakhar and the 91-Kalami Bakhar - is important both for the facts and the tone of the heroic and tragic events which form the basis of the popular history of Maharashtra. Unfortunately, many of the statements of even these two most reliable bakhars have found their way into scholarly writing without careful use of corroborating evidence.
And besides sourcing issues, the draft has lots of statements that are unsupported by even the cited sources. For example, the battle date (Sardesai dates it to 24 Jan 1661, which again I'll take with a pinch of salt); the claim that "Shivaji himself attacked the enemy in the rear"; the POV claim in wikipedia's voice that "Shivaji as the man of valour had own motto to not harm unarmed man and woman" etc. And some unparseable sentences such as "Shaista Khan ordered his... against Maratha Empire." A rewrite is needed. Abecedare ( talk) 16:10, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
About the new citation added:
Besides being another popular history by a non-expert and generic publisher, it is also a WP:CIRCULAR ref. Its description of the battle is at least in part apparently copied from the 2012 version of the wikipedia article. There are tons of such books churned out regularly ( here's another one) given the immense following Shivaji has in the state of Maharashtra. Abecedare ( talk) 16:28, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
Mughal manpower in the conflict is unknown. It is not mentioned by any of the reliable and conserved sources. It is often misleading. Ajayraj890 ( talk) 17:29, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
@ Sudsahab, before working on this article again, I suggest you to read the Battle of Umberkhind section at [1]. Also, pinging @ Abecedare. Imperial [AFCND] 08:08, 7 April 2024 (UTC)