This category is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This category is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a
WikiProject dedicated to coverage of
Russia on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the
project page, or contribute to the
project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia articles
This category is within the scope of WikiProject Literature, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Literature on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LiteratureWikipedia:WikiProject LiteratureTemplate:WikiProject LiteratureLiterature articles
This category is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity articles
This category is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us
assess and improve articles to
good and
1.0 standards, or visit the
wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion articles
This category is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to
philosophy on Wikipedia. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Wikipedia.PhilosophyWikipedia:WikiProject PhilosophyTemplate:WikiProject PhilosophyPhilosophy articles
This category is within the scope of WikiProject Constructed languages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
constructed languages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Constructed languagesWikipedia:WikiProject Constructed languagesTemplate:WikiProject Constructed languagesconstructed language articles
This category is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
I removed this category because the guidelines at
Wikipedia:Categorization say that items (with a few exceptions) shouldn't be in a both a parent category and its subcategories, and it's certainly standard practice among many projects and individual editors to remove redundant categories. This category was still in "Russian literature" as it was in included in its subcategory
Category:Russian writers through
Category:Russian novelists and
Category:Russian short story writers. If this categorization is incomplete as far as his writing, then a case could be made for it being in both "Russian writers" and its subcategories, but I don't see how it's an exception to the guideline otherwise.
Aitch Eye19:29, 24 February 2006 (UTC)reply
Thanks for explanation. I don't care about dates, but I would insist that
Category:Leo Tolstoy should be included directly into
Category:Russian literature, as it contains 2 or 3-pages-long short stories, which I would not like to see littering the general category for Russian literature. If we relegate this cat to
Category:Russian writers only, than these stories would be lost to those who search for Russian short stories in
Category:Russian literature. Sorry if my statement is not so clear, I have no time to explain myself at large, suffice it to say that current categorization works fine for me. I shall probably return to the subject in a few days, when I start the cat for Dostoevsky. --
Ghirla |
talk20:03, 24 February 2006 (UTC)reply
I apologise for not spotting the issue of the short stories, your reasoning makes sense. I'd been considering creating a category for Russian short stories as there seem to be enough in
Category:Russian literature category to justify it. There is already a
Category:German stories and
Category:British short stories, so there are precedents for that type of subcategory. Do you think this would be a good idea, and if so, would "Russian stories" or "Russian short stories" be a better name? You've put more thought and work into the subject area than I have, and I don't want to cause problems with any changes I make. I won't remove the categories on this again unless you agree.
Aitch Eye04:37, 25 February 2006 (UTC)reply
I removed these categories because this and
Category:Boris and Arkady Strugatsky were the only categories I had seen where the years of birth and death were included. Before making the change, I checked
Wikipedia:People by year, which only mentions adding the categories to articles and pictures. The only specific mention of whether to apply them to categories I could find was in
this comment on the talk page, where the editor who started the project said:
"The various queries work much better if the categories are on the article (e.g
Nikola Tesla), rather than the person's category (e.g
Category:Nikola Tesla). Thus, I'd prefer if they are added to the article. Besides, with the category on the article, it's more likely some corrects a year."
I also went through and checked a number of authors and major political and scientific figures with their own categories, and the births and deaths categories of a number of years at random, and I couldn't find any other examples. Doing some more checking before writing this, I now see that
Category:Aleksandr Pushkin and
Category: Benjamin Franklin have them, but that's all I've been able to find. It doesn't seem to be standard practice, and a lot of prominent people who receive a fair amount of attention (such as Gandhi, Newton, Washington) have not had them added, and I would expect major figures to be targeted if it was intended that catgories be included. In the absence of clear instruction on the relevant page, I'm not going to put up a fuss about their inclusion, but I didn't make the edit in an offhand manner.
Aitch Eye19:29, 24 February 2006 (UTC)reply
This category is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This category is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a
WikiProject dedicated to coverage of
Russia on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the
project page, or contribute to the
project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia articles
This category is within the scope of WikiProject Literature, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Literature on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LiteratureWikipedia:WikiProject LiteratureTemplate:WikiProject LiteratureLiterature articles
This category is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity articles
This category is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us
assess and improve articles to
good and
1.0 standards, or visit the
wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion articles
This category is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to
philosophy on Wikipedia. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Wikipedia.PhilosophyWikipedia:WikiProject PhilosophyTemplate:WikiProject PhilosophyPhilosophy articles
This category is within the scope of WikiProject Constructed languages, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
constructed languages on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Constructed languagesWikipedia:WikiProject Constructed languagesTemplate:WikiProject Constructed languagesconstructed language articles
This category is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
I removed this category because the guidelines at
Wikipedia:Categorization say that items (with a few exceptions) shouldn't be in a both a parent category and its subcategories, and it's certainly standard practice among many projects and individual editors to remove redundant categories. This category was still in "Russian literature" as it was in included in its subcategory
Category:Russian writers through
Category:Russian novelists and
Category:Russian short story writers. If this categorization is incomplete as far as his writing, then a case could be made for it being in both "Russian writers" and its subcategories, but I don't see how it's an exception to the guideline otherwise.
Aitch Eye19:29, 24 February 2006 (UTC)reply
Thanks for explanation. I don't care about dates, but I would insist that
Category:Leo Tolstoy should be included directly into
Category:Russian literature, as it contains 2 or 3-pages-long short stories, which I would not like to see littering the general category for Russian literature. If we relegate this cat to
Category:Russian writers only, than these stories would be lost to those who search for Russian short stories in
Category:Russian literature. Sorry if my statement is not so clear, I have no time to explain myself at large, suffice it to say that current categorization works fine for me. I shall probably return to the subject in a few days, when I start the cat for Dostoevsky. --
Ghirla |
talk20:03, 24 February 2006 (UTC)reply
I apologise for not spotting the issue of the short stories, your reasoning makes sense. I'd been considering creating a category for Russian short stories as there seem to be enough in
Category:Russian literature category to justify it. There is already a
Category:German stories and
Category:British short stories, so there are precedents for that type of subcategory. Do you think this would be a good idea, and if so, would "Russian stories" or "Russian short stories" be a better name? You've put more thought and work into the subject area than I have, and I don't want to cause problems with any changes I make. I won't remove the categories on this again unless you agree.
Aitch Eye04:37, 25 February 2006 (UTC)reply
I removed these categories because this and
Category:Boris and Arkady Strugatsky were the only categories I had seen where the years of birth and death were included. Before making the change, I checked
Wikipedia:People by year, which only mentions adding the categories to articles and pictures. The only specific mention of whether to apply them to categories I could find was in
this comment on the talk page, where the editor who started the project said:
"The various queries work much better if the categories are on the article (e.g
Nikola Tesla), rather than the person's category (e.g
Category:Nikola Tesla). Thus, I'd prefer if they are added to the article. Besides, with the category on the article, it's more likely some corrects a year."
I also went through and checked a number of authors and major political and scientific figures with their own categories, and the births and deaths categories of a number of years at random, and I couldn't find any other examples. Doing some more checking before writing this, I now see that
Category:Aleksandr Pushkin and
Category: Benjamin Franklin have them, but that's all I've been able to find. It doesn't seem to be standard practice, and a lot of prominent people who receive a fair amount of attention (such as Gandhi, Newton, Washington) have not had them added, and I would expect major figures to be targeted if it was intended that catgories be included. In the absence of clear instruction on the relevant page, I'm not going to put up a fuss about their inclusion, but I didn't make the edit in an offhand manner.
Aitch Eye19:29, 24 February 2006 (UTC)reply