What does it take for an image to no longer be considered to have "no source". Is it enough to add a compatable copyright tag (like {{ coatofarms}} or {{ film-screenshot}}, or do we need to know exactly where and how the image was obtained for it no longer to be eligable for speedy deletion under Critera 4 (tagged as no source for more than 7 days)? Just curious because a lot of images here could probably be re-tagged under some form of "fair use", but finding the exact source is near impossible. Just wondering if I should bother re-tagging images listed here or just nominate anyting that's been tagged for more than 7 days for speedy almost regardles? -- Sherool 16:16, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
Obviously ridiculous to require everything to have a source, and just creating additional work for us who have to re-upload the logos, coat of arms, etc. Fred- Chess 21:56, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
We should make a subcategory for images whose uploaders had been notified of their images status. There should be a corresponding {{ no source notified}}. All uploaders should have been notified when the tag was placed but not all were. Uploaders deserve fair warning, even if it's just a request that they tag their images. Non-admins like me can go through the main category, notify uploaders, and then change the template. It could be a corrollary of the untagged images project. What do people, especially admins (because of their deletion powers), think? Superm401 | Talk 00:38, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
These images of Hulk Hogan were uploaded by User:Iamsk3 in July 2005. They are all copyrighted.
// Fred- Chess 11:18, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
This is certainly not true. Many old images that currently have no source are still Public Domain. To that end, I am working my way through the images in this category, removing the "no source" tag and adding PD to old images that are free to use due to age and unlikely to have a copyright holder. // Fred- Chess 11:49, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
Works created but not published before January 1 1978 are protected for 95 years from the date they where registered for copyright, or 95 (for anonymous or pseudononymous works) resp. 120 years (for works by individuals) from year of creation, whichever expires first.
Doesn't that mean that a picture created in 1890 make it public domain since 1985? -- Bash 23:43, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
I use the pywikipedia framework. Specifically, the following code:
import wikipedia, catlib q=catlib.Category(wikipedia.Site('en'), 'Images with unknown source').articles();print len(q)
That takes about 15 minutes or so to run on my machine (and dial up connection), and outputs the number of images in the category. Then I just add it to the page. JesseW, the juggling janitor 21:39, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
Please let me know if this is not the most appropriate place to post this.
Click here to see a user who uploaded four really unused images that can be speedied. // Fred- Chess 22:55, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm all for notifying the uploader especially if it's a recently uploaded image, however I think that it's rediculous that there are images from June that are untagged and we are expected to notify the uploader after they have had plenty of time to tag the image. I prefer just to use good faith when deciding whether or not to notify and I think the notice should probably be changed to reflect the option to do so. Jtkiefer T | @ | C ----- 23:08, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Regarding clarify the upload page - There Is A Clear Simple Version available on the talk page, just waiting for sufficient consenus to get applied to the page. I'm going to try and drum up this support. Please go to MediaWiki talk:Uploadtext#Simple_version and express your support, if you feel so moved. JesseW, the juggling janitor 20:24, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Frankly I think that no image should be deleted unless (1) the original uploader is noticed, and (b) all links have been removed. I have spent far too much time lately cleaning up deleters' screw-ups where pages were turned into embarrassing messes all because the deleter couldn't be bothered to clean up links. One feature article some weeks ago lost 4 images and was turned into a ragged mess. What is more, when the deleted images were traced back it turned out that every single one was valid. They had simply been wrongly categorised by the uploader or had not had the required information because they were old images downloaded before the new stricter rules came in. All the deleter had to do was leave a message on the user's talkpage and in in many cases the user might well have been able to trace the source or spot a category error. But people aren't psychic. They may not know that na image they downloaded years ago is a problem. The first they know is when they stumble across the article where it was and find it gone and an ugly red link left.
I spotted one image that had not been notified to the user for deletion but whose source was instantly recognised. It was from the Northern Ireland Assembly and so CrownCopyright. There are large numbers of images in specialist areas whose sources, and so category, is patently obvious. Some users are deleting images without so much as having the cop-on to work out where it is obviously from, and without the politeness to let the downloader know that there is a problem. Frankly, if you can't be bothered letting people know there is a problem with there images, or can't be arsed cleaning up the effects of a deletion, then you shouldn't be doing deletions. If you can't be bothered doing it right, then leave it to someone who will do it properly. FearÉIREANN 22:32, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
Among the incompetent deletions have I have had to fix are
I have no problem with people who know what they are doing deleting images. I have spent much of my time on Wikipedia removing copyright text and images, so don't lecture me about the law. I was pushing to get the legal status of all images clarified two years ago. But it is not too much to ask for elementary competence in doing it. While most are competent (and I am not attacking them by any stretch of the imagination, it seems that there are a fair few doing deletions who haven't a clue what they are doing, don't know the legal meaning of fairuse, don't know that a version of internet explorer screws up categories (it doesn't show them so people have no way when downloading images of filling in a category) and who delete such images even when the people have listed in the page the source, the location of the image, the category they would have put it into if IE had enabled them to do it, etc. But the asshole who deleted it couldn't be bothered spending 10 seconds correcting the problem. Instead, with notification, without listing it anywhere, he deleted it.
The next person I come across deleting GFDL images, or tearing an article to shreds because they were too lazy to spend 1 minute fixing links, will be reported on the admin page and on the wikilist. If people are too incompetent to do the job properly then they should not be doing it. The incompetent few have managed to piss off a lot of genuine users who do obey copyright rules to the letter. One guy some weeks ago had an article he had worked on for 3 weeks torn to shreds because some incompetent fool didn't know the legal rules regarding crowncopyright images and thought crowncopyright images needed written permission for usage!!! So he deleted them all and reduced a superb article full of illustations to a tangled mess. That sort of incompetence is what I am talking about. I had one of my own images, which I had explicitly given under full licence to WP deleted for no logical reason whatsoever. I had to go to a site that had copied the page from us and download it back again. It couldn't have been more explicit on the page that it was given to WP. The categorisation was correct. The source stated. The only problem was that it was it was downloaded when a different set of commands were used. All the asshole had to do was replace the old command from 2003 with the new one we now use, but he couldn't be bothered. So an important article lost its main image because of a deleter's incompetence. I got 6 emails from others who had the exact same thing happen. Perfectly good, 100% legal images were deleted because of a deleter's incompetence. And everyone was livid. One user, who had loaded large numbers of his own, superb shots, wrote that "Wikipedia can fuck itself if it thinks I'm giving it any more images after this." Incompetent deletions don't make WP more safe (they usually delete legal images and leave illegal ones). They just screw up articles, annoy users and means that it has fewer legal images than it could have to use. FearÉIREANN 03:17, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
I have rewritten a portion of this to make it clear that notifying the uploader is not required only strongly suggested, below is the original and the changed version:
Original:
Don't delete an image unless the uploader has been notified, and it's been at least 7 days since then. After informing the uploader, leave a dated note for other speedy deleters on the image page, to let them know you've done so.
Modified
Those working on this cleanup project should use good judgment when considering deletion. Placing the notice {{No source}} on the uploaders talk page is strongly recommended however admins should use good judgement as to whether notify upload or delete without notice.
Jtkiefer
T |
@ |
C -----
04:46, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
In a bot of pure brilliant usefulness User:AllyUnion has made a bot to do the notification, making life much easier. So the new categories Category:Images with unknown copyright status - notified and Category:Images with unknown source - notified will start to fill up. Justinc 13:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
So the number was slowly but surely coming down, but then spiked up. Is this due to a pause while everyone is being (re)notified?
Is it likely that at some point 7 days after a major bot run, there will be a really awe inspiring deletion spree? :-) That would rock.-- Jimbo Wales 07:05, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
The {{nosource}} template appears to have been changed to include the date; should the instructions for adding this be updated to be something like {{nosource|~~~~~}} (or something similar)? (Normally I'd just be bold, but I'm slightly more circumspect with things that may potentially affect lots of people) -- Pak21 12:47, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
"To help with deleting these images, one can press "Alt-D" on the keyboard to do so." ANYONE? That seems odd, but if it is just admins (as I suspect), it should probably be rewritten to make that clear. -- InShaneee 19:07, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
G'day all.
I've been cleaning out images (anything starting with J) out of this catergory, either finding sources of each image or notifying uploaders and then marking CSD. This is going pretty well, except there seems to be some confusion as to what exactly constitutes an 'image source', so...opinions people.... and i'm assumeing that {{fairusein|}} is being claimed.
If not, then what further information is required (in each instance). If theres a better place for this query, can somone suggest it? Thanks. Agnte 15:44, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
In regards to:
Before adding the speedy delete template please notify the uploader (if this hasnt been done already) and also remove the image from all pages (or at least articles) that are currently using it (remember to explain why in the edit summary so people don't think it's vandalism) as requested on WP:CSD#Images/Media.
I want to know others' opinion about this rule. Personally as an admin trying to delete the images I try to "use good judgment when considering deletion" as the page says but I find this to conflict with the above rule. When I can't see where the file was linked I can't judge its worth. If an image is prominantly linked I will try to find a replacement before deleting it, however, when I have no idea where it is linked I just delete it. I understand the legal issue and am not trying to advocate keeping good pictures under faulty copyright premises indefinitely but just that I would like to know how important what I'm deleting is so I can make an effort to replace it, or defer it to someone who might know better. When I can't see where the image was linked I lose this ability. In my opinion if this is the policy we might as well have a bot do it. If an image in no point in its history has any copyright tag then it it given a no source tag by the bot. It comes back in seven days and if still no tag exists then it is deleted. Simple and sweet. Under the current system it's merely a waste of time to have human involvement because judgment of the admin becomes less meaningful when we can't see where things were. I don't know if anyone agrees or disagrees but I'd like to hear opinions on this at least. Also, if people disagree with me then could we get a bot like that going? It'd be a whole lot quicker and waste a lot less admin time that could be spent on CSD or something more useful. Thanks. gren グレン 17:38, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
I have created this template as an alternative version of 'no source'. It places images into categories by day, for example Category:Images with unknown source: December 5. It does not put those images in the larger category. This will ease cleanup of CAT:NS, because editors won't have to wade through all the images that can't be deleted yet. To add nsd to an image, use {{ nsd|<monthname> <day number>}} (example: {{ nsd|December 5}}). Ingoolemo talk 17:54, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
I would have thought this was obvious, but screenshots, book covers, album covers, etc, all have a single unambiguous source - the publisher. For the purposes of copyright, it doesn't matter whether the work was scanned, photographed, collected from a web site which collected it from some other website, or whatever. Similarly for logos and seals, by definition the source is the organization represented by the symbol. So in all these cases, the description of what the image represents is also a sufficient description of their source. (It doesn't hurt to mention how the image was collected, in case one wishes to compare quality of different copies.) Stan 17:49, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
You may have noticed that I've been flooding these categories with images uploaded by JillandJack ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). I wanted to alert you to the status of these images--this user was indefinitely blocked for, among other things, serial copyright violations, and the images are to be regarded with suspicion. In particular, JillandJack had the habit of not placing sources on images they claimed to be public domain; their claims should probably be taken with skepticism. See User:DW for more information. Thanks. Chick Bowen 23:18, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Don't put the backlog template if the earliest images are only 7 days old! That's how long we have to wait, and doesn't indicate a problem. Superm401 - Talk 08:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Image:1stBibleCharlesBaldFol011rInitGen.jpg has been tagged as being without a source. This is an image of a page from th First Bible of Charles the Bald an 1100+ year old manuscript. The ultimate source for this image is that it was created by an anonymous artist, probably a monk in the 9th century. The image on wikipedia has had at least two intermediary images: a photograph taken of the manuscript page, and a digitial scan made of the photograph. However, under Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp., the intermediaries are automatically public domain, since the original is a two-dimensional art work in the public domain. This is true regardless who made the intermediares. The image page identified the manuscript from which the image came, even to the point of naming the page it came from. (I have since added the shelfmark, which removes any ambiguity as to the manuscripts identity.) I would argue that the source for this manuscript has been adequately identified, and that there is no doubt of the copyright status of this image. Dsmdgold 02:40, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't this be using NOGALLERY? I would suspect many of the images would be copyrighted in the usual case of what would be categorized here. -- 76.65.128.252 ( talk) 00:03, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
What does it take for an image to no longer be considered to have "no source". Is it enough to add a compatable copyright tag (like {{ coatofarms}} or {{ film-screenshot}}, or do we need to know exactly where and how the image was obtained for it no longer to be eligable for speedy deletion under Critera 4 (tagged as no source for more than 7 days)? Just curious because a lot of images here could probably be re-tagged under some form of "fair use", but finding the exact source is near impossible. Just wondering if I should bother re-tagging images listed here or just nominate anyting that's been tagged for more than 7 days for speedy almost regardles? -- Sherool 16:16, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
Obviously ridiculous to require everything to have a source, and just creating additional work for us who have to re-upload the logos, coat of arms, etc. Fred- Chess 21:56, 26 September 2005 (UTC)
We should make a subcategory for images whose uploaders had been notified of their images status. There should be a corresponding {{ no source notified}}. All uploaders should have been notified when the tag was placed but not all were. Uploaders deserve fair warning, even if it's just a request that they tag their images. Non-admins like me can go through the main category, notify uploaders, and then change the template. It could be a corrollary of the untagged images project. What do people, especially admins (because of their deletion powers), think? Superm401 | Talk 00:38, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
These images of Hulk Hogan were uploaded by User:Iamsk3 in July 2005. They are all copyrighted.
// Fred- Chess 11:18, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
This is certainly not true. Many old images that currently have no source are still Public Domain. To that end, I am working my way through the images in this category, removing the "no source" tag and adding PD to old images that are free to use due to age and unlikely to have a copyright holder. // Fred- Chess 11:49, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
Works created but not published before January 1 1978 are protected for 95 years from the date they where registered for copyright, or 95 (for anonymous or pseudononymous works) resp. 120 years (for works by individuals) from year of creation, whichever expires first.
Doesn't that mean that a picture created in 1890 make it public domain since 1985? -- Bash 23:43, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
I use the pywikipedia framework. Specifically, the following code:
import wikipedia, catlib q=catlib.Category(wikipedia.Site('en'), 'Images with unknown source').articles();print len(q)
That takes about 15 minutes or so to run on my machine (and dial up connection), and outputs the number of images in the category. Then I just add it to the page. JesseW, the juggling janitor 21:39, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
Please let me know if this is not the most appropriate place to post this.
Click here to see a user who uploaded four really unused images that can be speedied. // Fred- Chess 22:55, 30 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm all for notifying the uploader especially if it's a recently uploaded image, however I think that it's rediculous that there are images from June that are untagged and we are expected to notify the uploader after they have had plenty of time to tag the image. I prefer just to use good faith when deciding whether or not to notify and I think the notice should probably be changed to reflect the option to do so. Jtkiefer T | @ | C ----- 23:08, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Regarding clarify the upload page - There Is A Clear Simple Version available on the talk page, just waiting for sufficient consenus to get applied to the page. I'm going to try and drum up this support. Please go to MediaWiki talk:Uploadtext#Simple_version and express your support, if you feel so moved. JesseW, the juggling janitor 20:24, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
Frankly I think that no image should be deleted unless (1) the original uploader is noticed, and (b) all links have been removed. I have spent far too much time lately cleaning up deleters' screw-ups where pages were turned into embarrassing messes all because the deleter couldn't be bothered to clean up links. One feature article some weeks ago lost 4 images and was turned into a ragged mess. What is more, when the deleted images were traced back it turned out that every single one was valid. They had simply been wrongly categorised by the uploader or had not had the required information because they were old images downloaded before the new stricter rules came in. All the deleter had to do was leave a message on the user's talkpage and in in many cases the user might well have been able to trace the source or spot a category error. But people aren't psychic. They may not know that na image they downloaded years ago is a problem. The first they know is when they stumble across the article where it was and find it gone and an ugly red link left.
I spotted one image that had not been notified to the user for deletion but whose source was instantly recognised. It was from the Northern Ireland Assembly and so CrownCopyright. There are large numbers of images in specialist areas whose sources, and so category, is patently obvious. Some users are deleting images without so much as having the cop-on to work out where it is obviously from, and without the politeness to let the downloader know that there is a problem. Frankly, if you can't be bothered letting people know there is a problem with there images, or can't be arsed cleaning up the effects of a deletion, then you shouldn't be doing deletions. If you can't be bothered doing it right, then leave it to someone who will do it properly. FearÉIREANN 22:32, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
Among the incompetent deletions have I have had to fix are
I have no problem with people who know what they are doing deleting images. I have spent much of my time on Wikipedia removing copyright text and images, so don't lecture me about the law. I was pushing to get the legal status of all images clarified two years ago. But it is not too much to ask for elementary competence in doing it. While most are competent (and I am not attacking them by any stretch of the imagination, it seems that there are a fair few doing deletions who haven't a clue what they are doing, don't know the legal meaning of fairuse, don't know that a version of internet explorer screws up categories (it doesn't show them so people have no way when downloading images of filling in a category) and who delete such images even when the people have listed in the page the source, the location of the image, the category they would have put it into if IE had enabled them to do it, etc. But the asshole who deleted it couldn't be bothered spending 10 seconds correcting the problem. Instead, with notification, without listing it anywhere, he deleted it.
The next person I come across deleting GFDL images, or tearing an article to shreds because they were too lazy to spend 1 minute fixing links, will be reported on the admin page and on the wikilist. If people are too incompetent to do the job properly then they should not be doing it. The incompetent few have managed to piss off a lot of genuine users who do obey copyright rules to the letter. One guy some weeks ago had an article he had worked on for 3 weeks torn to shreds because some incompetent fool didn't know the legal rules regarding crowncopyright images and thought crowncopyright images needed written permission for usage!!! So he deleted them all and reduced a superb article full of illustations to a tangled mess. That sort of incompetence is what I am talking about. I had one of my own images, which I had explicitly given under full licence to WP deleted for no logical reason whatsoever. I had to go to a site that had copied the page from us and download it back again. It couldn't have been more explicit on the page that it was given to WP. The categorisation was correct. The source stated. The only problem was that it was it was downloaded when a different set of commands were used. All the asshole had to do was replace the old command from 2003 with the new one we now use, but he couldn't be bothered. So an important article lost its main image because of a deleter's incompetence. I got 6 emails from others who had the exact same thing happen. Perfectly good, 100% legal images were deleted because of a deleter's incompetence. And everyone was livid. One user, who had loaded large numbers of his own, superb shots, wrote that "Wikipedia can fuck itself if it thinks I'm giving it any more images after this." Incompetent deletions don't make WP more safe (they usually delete legal images and leave illegal ones). They just screw up articles, annoy users and means that it has fewer legal images than it could have to use. FearÉIREANN 03:17, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
I have rewritten a portion of this to make it clear that notifying the uploader is not required only strongly suggested, below is the original and the changed version:
Original:
Don't delete an image unless the uploader has been notified, and it's been at least 7 days since then. After informing the uploader, leave a dated note for other speedy deleters on the image page, to let them know you've done so.
Modified
Those working on this cleanup project should use good judgment when considering deletion. Placing the notice {{No source}} on the uploaders talk page is strongly recommended however admins should use good judgement as to whether notify upload or delete without notice.
Jtkiefer
T |
@ |
C -----
04:46, 8 October 2005 (UTC)
In a bot of pure brilliant usefulness User:AllyUnion has made a bot to do the notification, making life much easier. So the new categories Category:Images with unknown copyright status - notified and Category:Images with unknown source - notified will start to fill up. Justinc 13:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
So the number was slowly but surely coming down, but then spiked up. Is this due to a pause while everyone is being (re)notified?
Is it likely that at some point 7 days after a major bot run, there will be a really awe inspiring deletion spree? :-) That would rock.-- Jimbo Wales 07:05, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
The {{nosource}} template appears to have been changed to include the date; should the instructions for adding this be updated to be something like {{nosource|~~~~~}} (or something similar)? (Normally I'd just be bold, but I'm slightly more circumspect with things that may potentially affect lots of people) -- Pak21 12:47, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
"To help with deleting these images, one can press "Alt-D" on the keyboard to do so." ANYONE? That seems odd, but if it is just admins (as I suspect), it should probably be rewritten to make that clear. -- InShaneee 19:07, 12 November 2005 (UTC)
G'day all.
I've been cleaning out images (anything starting with J) out of this catergory, either finding sources of each image or notifying uploaders and then marking CSD. This is going pretty well, except there seems to be some confusion as to what exactly constitutes an 'image source', so...opinions people.... and i'm assumeing that {{fairusein|}} is being claimed.
If not, then what further information is required (in each instance). If theres a better place for this query, can somone suggest it? Thanks. Agnte 15:44, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
In regards to:
Before adding the speedy delete template please notify the uploader (if this hasnt been done already) and also remove the image from all pages (or at least articles) that are currently using it (remember to explain why in the edit summary so people don't think it's vandalism) as requested on WP:CSD#Images/Media.
I want to know others' opinion about this rule. Personally as an admin trying to delete the images I try to "use good judgment when considering deletion" as the page says but I find this to conflict with the above rule. When I can't see where the file was linked I can't judge its worth. If an image is prominantly linked I will try to find a replacement before deleting it, however, when I have no idea where it is linked I just delete it. I understand the legal issue and am not trying to advocate keeping good pictures under faulty copyright premises indefinitely but just that I would like to know how important what I'm deleting is so I can make an effort to replace it, or defer it to someone who might know better. When I can't see where the image was linked I lose this ability. In my opinion if this is the policy we might as well have a bot do it. If an image in no point in its history has any copyright tag then it it given a no source tag by the bot. It comes back in seven days and if still no tag exists then it is deleted. Simple and sweet. Under the current system it's merely a waste of time to have human involvement because judgment of the admin becomes less meaningful when we can't see where things were. I don't know if anyone agrees or disagrees but I'd like to hear opinions on this at least. Also, if people disagree with me then could we get a bot like that going? It'd be a whole lot quicker and waste a lot less admin time that could be spent on CSD or something more useful. Thanks. gren グレン 17:38, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
I have created this template as an alternative version of 'no source'. It places images into categories by day, for example Category:Images with unknown source: December 5. It does not put those images in the larger category. This will ease cleanup of CAT:NS, because editors won't have to wade through all the images that can't be deleted yet. To add nsd to an image, use {{ nsd|<monthname> <day number>}} (example: {{ nsd|December 5}}). Ingoolemo talk 17:54, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
I would have thought this was obvious, but screenshots, book covers, album covers, etc, all have a single unambiguous source - the publisher. For the purposes of copyright, it doesn't matter whether the work was scanned, photographed, collected from a web site which collected it from some other website, or whatever. Similarly for logos and seals, by definition the source is the organization represented by the symbol. So in all these cases, the description of what the image represents is also a sufficient description of their source. (It doesn't hurt to mention how the image was collected, in case one wishes to compare quality of different copies.) Stan 17:49, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
You may have noticed that I've been flooding these categories with images uploaded by JillandJack ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log). I wanted to alert you to the status of these images--this user was indefinitely blocked for, among other things, serial copyright violations, and the images are to be regarded with suspicion. In particular, JillandJack had the habit of not placing sources on images they claimed to be public domain; their claims should probably be taken with skepticism. See User:DW for more information. Thanks. Chick Bowen 23:18, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Don't put the backlog template if the earliest images are only 7 days old! That's how long we have to wait, and doesn't indicate a problem. Superm401 - Talk 08:03, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
Image:1stBibleCharlesBaldFol011rInitGen.jpg has been tagged as being without a source. This is an image of a page from th First Bible of Charles the Bald an 1100+ year old manuscript. The ultimate source for this image is that it was created by an anonymous artist, probably a monk in the 9th century. The image on wikipedia has had at least two intermediary images: a photograph taken of the manuscript page, and a digitial scan made of the photograph. However, under Bridgeman Art Library v. Corel Corp., the intermediaries are automatically public domain, since the original is a two-dimensional art work in the public domain. This is true regardless who made the intermediares. The image page identified the manuscript from which the image came, even to the point of naming the page it came from. (I have since added the shelfmark, which removes any ambiguity as to the manuscripts identity.) I would argue that the source for this manuscript has been adequately identified, and that there is no doubt of the copyright status of this image. Dsmdgold 02:40, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't this be using NOGALLERY? I would suspect many of the images would be copyrighted in the usual case of what would be categorized here. -- 76.65.128.252 ( talk) 00:03, 24 August 2012 (UTC)