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Aren't all LDS movement members "converts to Mormonism"? Are you trying to profile early members here? WBardwin 17:15, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
This is part of a general set of "converts to" categories. This is people who converted from one religion to another. The Mormonism category is probably the largest proportionately, but there are lots of others. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:01, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
Mormons are indeed Christians - I am not disputing this. However Converts to Mormonism are not necessarily converts to Christianity because many were already Christians. See eg List of converts to Christianity. The only one listed who is also a convert to Mormonism is Chieko N. Okazaki. A convert to Christianity converts from something outside Christianity to Christianity. A convert from Catholicism to mormonism converts to Mormonism but not to Christianity as the person was already Christian. Carminis ( talk) 11:47, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Anyone else notice that the list is 99.9% male?
-- 65.92.84.24 ( talk) 19:58, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
Other reason for this is that many of the converts are politicians, especially 19th century ones. The first elected woman in Utah, and the first elected female state senator in any state, Martha Hughes Cannon, had come to Utah with her family at age three. I am not sure if her parents were baptized before or after her birth, but even if it was after calling her a convert would not really work. I will go through, but I wonder if Ann Romney got counted in the total figures, which would have an effect. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:40, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
The current count is 42 out of 480 or 8.7% of the listings are female. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:53, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
Some Latter Day Saint groups (such as the Community of Christ) do not want to be called Mormons, so references to "Mormonism" and being "Mormon" in Wikipedia usually refer to the movement following Brigham Young (see Manual of Style. However, William W. Blair and R. C. Evans are in this category, yet both converted to the RLDS Church after the LDS Church settled in Utah. Is that a problem? Do we need another category for Latter Day Saints that aren't called Mormons? "Converts to the Latter Day Saint movement" sounds awkward and "Latter Day Saint converts" is ambiguous (What is being converted to and what is being converted from?). —— Rich jj ( talk) 16:49, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
I can see legitimate arguments for limiting this category to people who converted to Church's openly following Joseph Smith, and then Brigham Young on down. However, in theory various polygamists groups want to use the term "Mormon" and a we could follow the example of the Converts to Catholicism categories and create "Converts to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" as a specific title. Realistically there are few "Converts to Mormonsim" that join polygamous groups, since they do not actively prosylite. Considering that you seem to only be able to cite two people who are in this category who converted to the RLDS Church, and there are over 400 people in the category, maybe removing them from the category is the easiest solution. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:09, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
If you go through the "Converts to Christianity" section you will find lots of examples of people converting from one Christian faith to another. The general sense is that the categories "Converts to Eastern Orthodoxy", "Converts to Roman Catholicsm" and "Converts to Protestantism" belong there, even though many of the people in each of those categories converted from other Christian denominations. For consistentcy in wikipedia I put this category as a sub-category of the "Converts to Christianity" category. It creates a consistency of categories. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:04, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
Some of the people in this category were not Christians before joining the LDS Church. Kanosh, Sagwitch, Chief Tuba and Tutsegabit come to mind the fastest. Also, some of the Japanese converts in Hawaii and Japan were not Christian. Also, Walter Gong may not have been a Christian before joining the LDS Church. Others, such as Joseph Smith, Sr. lacked any religious affiliation before becoming LDS. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 01:09, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
Carminis in his comments above is wrong. If he takes a look at those who are in the various sub-categories the majority converted from other branches of Christianity, and many of the sub-categories of sub-categories are entirely made up of transfers of allegiance within Christianity. "Converts to Mormonism" fits in this general plan, especially since there are people in this category who were not Christian at the time of their conversion. If their is a good reason for changing it back, please explain. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 00:57, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
Whether the other categories are wrong is not my worry. My goal is to have consistent placement of categories. If you want to rework the whole system of categories, you will need to take it up as a general discussion urging a re-work of the entire system. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 02:21, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This category does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
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Aren't all LDS movement members "converts to Mormonism"? Are you trying to profile early members here? WBardwin 17:15, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
This is part of a general set of "converts to" categories. This is people who converted from one religion to another. The Mormonism category is probably the largest proportionately, but there are lots of others. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:01, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
Mormons are indeed Christians - I am not disputing this. However Converts to Mormonism are not necessarily converts to Christianity because many were already Christians. See eg List of converts to Christianity. The only one listed who is also a convert to Mormonism is Chieko N. Okazaki. A convert to Christianity converts from something outside Christianity to Christianity. A convert from Catholicism to mormonism converts to Mormonism but not to Christianity as the person was already Christian. Carminis ( talk) 11:47, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Anyone else notice that the list is 99.9% male?
-- 65.92.84.24 ( talk) 19:58, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
Other reason for this is that many of the converts are politicians, especially 19th century ones. The first elected woman in Utah, and the first elected female state senator in any state, Martha Hughes Cannon, had come to Utah with her family at age three. I am not sure if her parents were baptized before or after her birth, but even if it was after calling her a convert would not really work. I will go through, but I wonder if Ann Romney got counted in the total figures, which would have an effect. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:40, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
The current count is 42 out of 480 or 8.7% of the listings are female. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:53, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
Some Latter Day Saint groups (such as the Community of Christ) do not want to be called Mormons, so references to "Mormonism" and being "Mormon" in Wikipedia usually refer to the movement following Brigham Young (see Manual of Style. However, William W. Blair and R. C. Evans are in this category, yet both converted to the RLDS Church after the LDS Church settled in Utah. Is that a problem? Do we need another category for Latter Day Saints that aren't called Mormons? "Converts to the Latter Day Saint movement" sounds awkward and "Latter Day Saint converts" is ambiguous (What is being converted to and what is being converted from?). —— Rich jj ( talk) 16:49, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
I can see legitimate arguments for limiting this category to people who converted to Church's openly following Joseph Smith, and then Brigham Young on down. However, in theory various polygamists groups want to use the term "Mormon" and a we could follow the example of the Converts to Catholicism categories and create "Converts to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" as a specific title. Realistically there are few "Converts to Mormonsim" that join polygamous groups, since they do not actively prosylite. Considering that you seem to only be able to cite two people who are in this category who converted to the RLDS Church, and there are over 400 people in the category, maybe removing them from the category is the easiest solution. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:09, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
If you go through the "Converts to Christianity" section you will find lots of examples of people converting from one Christian faith to another. The general sense is that the categories "Converts to Eastern Orthodoxy", "Converts to Roman Catholicsm" and "Converts to Protestantism" belong there, even though many of the people in each of those categories converted from other Christian denominations. For consistentcy in wikipedia I put this category as a sub-category of the "Converts to Christianity" category. It creates a consistency of categories. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 20:04, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
Some of the people in this category were not Christians before joining the LDS Church. Kanosh, Sagwitch, Chief Tuba and Tutsegabit come to mind the fastest. Also, some of the Japanese converts in Hawaii and Japan were not Christian. Also, Walter Gong may not have been a Christian before joining the LDS Church. Others, such as Joseph Smith, Sr. lacked any religious affiliation before becoming LDS. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 01:09, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
Carminis in his comments above is wrong. If he takes a look at those who are in the various sub-categories the majority converted from other branches of Christianity, and many of the sub-categories of sub-categories are entirely made up of transfers of allegiance within Christianity. "Converts to Mormonism" fits in this general plan, especially since there are people in this category who were not Christian at the time of their conversion. If their is a good reason for changing it back, please explain. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 00:57, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
Whether the other categories are wrong is not my worry. My goal is to have consistent placement of categories. If you want to rework the whole system of categories, you will need to take it up as a general discussion urging a re-work of the entire system. John Pack Lambert ( talk) 02:21, 13 July 2010 (UTC)