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A request for comment has been made on the page for Jill Stein after a number of edits were rolled back without discussion. A careful and concise list of the major elements censored has been made and the question is: should some or all of this censored material be restored? Thank you for your help maintaining Wikipedia's reputation for neutrality.
To give the simplest example: The following text (in green) has been repeatedly blocked from addition to the page because the page owner does not believe it represents her "true" opinion on vaccines, the page owner believes instead that she is using dog-whistle terms... :
In a short article discussing these tweets at Forbes, Emily Willingham described Stein's statements on vaccines as "using dog whistle terms and equivocations bound to appeal to the “antivaccine” constituency". [1] In a later interview, at the Green Party convention, Stein stated that she did not believe that vaccines caused autism, and compared the media frenzy around the question to the birther issue which had been used against Barack Obama in 2008. [2]
Existing text on the page is in black, what I'm trying to include is in dark green. (I've added the fact that the smear quote is from a short article, because the editor is giving this polemical citation undue weight by citing all of Emily Willingham's credentials for a 100-word squib on a tweetstorm on the web version of a finance magazine...)
If you would like to come and remind the page owner that pages on Wikipedia are not owned, your help will be much appreciated!! (actually there appears to be a team of 3 working together, all of whom voted against the addition of the dark green text above to counterbalance the "dog whistle" takedown... with primary and secondary source material (see video in reference with commentary from Cenk Ugyur, who spoke at the DNC Convention, so is seemingly a credible source.)
Request for Comment (Jill Stein page)
SashiRolls ( talk) 23:37, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
An attempt to have the above user blocked from the site has failed, even though I offered to agree to accept a block myself in exchange, so others could work peacefully. His latest questionable action was to announce that he had he removed a section that consensus was calling for while, in fact, only removing the section title. People looking at the diff could mistakenly believe that he had removed the on 3rd party chances sections as he says he did in the edit summary, and as consensus has suggested is necessary. See Duverger's, Delete the 3rd party Chances Section, [1], and Doesn't seem neutral. I am taking the step of deleting the section to follow up on 6-8 users belief that it does not belong, even though I fully expect that I will be berated violently for doing so by [User:Snooganssnoogans|Snooganssnoogans] who seems to be hoping the "systemic bias" tag will remain as long as possible... SashiRolls ( talk) 10:28, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Thank you very much to all who have worked on the page trying to challenge this user's behavior. I have been singled out for the user's worst abuse, but still no official action has been taken. SashiRolls ( talk) 10:28, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Christian140 has raised some valid concerns at WT:SOCIOLOGY#Racism in South Korea that are relevant to this noticeboard. Since that project is not super-duper active, I wanted to call attention to it here as well since Christian's recent post indicates that he/she's about ready to give up and I think more input from uninvolved editors is needed. I'm going to try to take a closer look later, but I don't have any background knowledge on the article in question ( Racism in South Korea). —PermStrump (talk) 17:52, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
Weeks ago, Trivialist unfairly destroyed the Family Home Entertainment (or FHE for short) page and redirected it to the Artisan Entertainment page ( here) just because he thinks that FHE was a former name of the company, so I reverted it a few days ago but he and the others kept adding the redirect back ( here, here, here, here, and here). I tried to revert the FHE page back to the way it was several times, and I even threatened them for adding the redirect back. But then they blocked me and I tried so hard to remind anyone on my talk page that FHE was the name of the KIDS AND FAMILY SUBSIDIARY of Artisan, not just one of the parent company's former names. It's just that FHE became a LABEL of the parent company after the latter was incorporated as International Video Entertainment in 1986. (I even said this on the article's talk page.) Can you please remove the page's redirect to the Artisan page and add all of its content back? 68.2.123.163 ( talk) 00:02, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
You are invited to participate in Talk:Donald Trump#RfC: Donald Trump's false campaign statements. -- Dr. Fleischman ( talk) 17:48, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
Editors are invited to review Talk:Jill Stein#RfC: Should the article discuss a crowd-funded YouTube documentary or include a quotation from Chris Hedges stating that "the Democratic Party is one of the engines for ... proto-fascism," or include similar content?. Neutrality talk 19:36, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
This issue was originally posted here but the discussion has been abruptly closed because it was in the "wrong venue". It is primarily an issue of source unreliability, however it could also be viewed as a problem of "point of view", so this could be the right place for such an issue.
Articles such as:
Are in a horrible state as they appear to have become platforms of propaganda for a certain religious ideology who sees inflated statistical data as its strength and weapon. However, the main problem is that those articles (or major parts of them) are constructed on unreliable sources such as tabloids and low-level journalism (which by definition is not academic, and by Wikipedia standards should not be used as a source here), for example articles from The Guardian or The Economist, and ostensively biased agencies such as the "World Christian Encyclopedia". I have also discovered that the user who has recently revised those articles or the Christianity-related sections of those articles has made an unfair use of some sources (and in this case I refer to the few good quality ones, academico books, that apparently (deceptively) are referenced), reporting information that those sources do not contain.
I ask for help from administrators and other editors in dealing with this issue, to purge those articles from the aforementioned bad quality sources.-- 151.68.153.125 ( talk) 21:51, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
Hello, Wikipedians! I hope editors experienced in WP:NPOV issues can look at a conversation on the Walmart Talk page. To summarize: An editor recently added a subsection to the article called Growing crime problem based on a report from Bloomberg. I made an edit request asking editors to include two sentences about Walmart's efforts to curb crimes, citing the aforementioned Bloomberg story and another one. Two editors have weighed in, Sammy1339 and Meters. I would not want to attempt to summarize their opinions, as both editors have clearly stated their viewpoints already. However, as the discussion is at a standstill, it seems more input is needed. Thanks, JLD at Walmart ( talk) 17:32, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
At War in Donbass, RGloucester and Iryna Harpy are insisting ( [4], [5]) that we keep scare quotes around the term humanitarian convoy, editorially implying, in wikipedia's voice, that usage of the term is absurd or misleading. The term is already attributed to Russia in writing: "what Russia called a humanitarian convoy".
RGloucester maintains at Talk:War in Donbass that "It is a direct quote FROM THE SOURCE" (caps in the original), and that removing the quotes would render us guilty of WP:OR. However, none of the five sources used in this paragraph ( [6], [7], [8], [9], [10]) directly quote Russian officials when using this term - the sources are paraphrasing - and it is therefore false to suggest that quotation marks are necessary to denote exact Russian language from any of these sources. It is furthermore unclear why quotation marks are necessary in this specific instance, when the construction of the sentence clearly indicates this phrase originates with Russia.
I am not sure if there may be a language proficiency problem in terms of identifying sarcasm, or a POV problem in terms of thinking that scare quotes are justified, but more eyes would be appreciated. Obviously if scare quotes were permitted around any phrase appearing in a newspaper, POV-pushers would have a field day all across the encyclopedia, and maintain in every case "It is a direct quote FROM THE SOURCE." - Darouet ( talk) 13:29, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
In order to check that a source had been represented fairly and to determine how to neutrally present material, I asked an editor to quote the relevant material from a newly cited book or to supply a link so that I could read it myself. He refused to do either. Do I have recourse to any action or is my only resort to make a general request to other editors to look up the material for me? ← ZScarpia 19:09, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
Guys, I've just noticed and tried the "Search Inside" box on Drawing Fire's Google Books page. Through that I've managed to access the relevant page and confirmed that Pogrund did write what Epson Salts claimed and that he was referring to the incident in Haiti. Now there is just the neutrality issue to deal with. As a result I'm prepared, for the moment at least, to go with the article using "baseless" rumours or claims. I'd like to point out the logic of the situation, though: because no (at least public) investigation was carried out, nobody who was not directly involved can actually know for sure whether in fact the suspicions were 'baseless' or not. ← ZScarpia 14:14, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
TL;DR. To ZScarpia: I don't know what you want here. The discussion here should be on the talkpage. And problems with user conduct aren't dealt here - you need to go to the drama boards.
Kingsindian
♝
♚ 15:37, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
Should Jill Stein be allowed to have a Political positions page as the rest of the candidates do, and if so, is there currently undue weight given to her "political positions" (many of which originally written by editors opposed to them) on her biography page? This is the question for which a request for comment has been opened here. As stated before by other editors, this page urgently needs "more eyes". SashiRolls ( talk) 18:34, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
A edit of mine has been reverted multiple times by User:Lysimachi who says that it violates WP:NPOV. There was a previous Dispute resolution case on this Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_141#Talk:Han_Taiwanese.23Lead_sentence_WikiLink but the status is unresolved. According to User:Lysimachi, saying that "Han Taiwanese" are ethnically "Han Chinese" violates WP:UNDUE ( Diff). The term "Han Chinese" is used in multiple sources and I don't see why we should not mention it at all in this article. The term "Chinese" is an ethnic term and differentiates the Taiwanese of Han Chinese descent from those of Aboriginal descent. I'm struggling to understand where is the NPOV violation here. -- Lemongirl942 ( talk) 18:57, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
A RFC posted at Project Automobiles is discussing two similar article edits:
Springee ( talk) 19:43, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
Mena Intermountain Municipal Airport ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
I just removed an unsourced section about conspiracy theories, but another section that attempts to collate such conspiracy theories remains. I feel as though this whole discussion is basically a coatrack especially because the most reliable sources basically conclude that no one in government knew anything about the use of this airport as a drug trafficking drop point. Help on this article would be greatly appreciated.
jps ( talk) 11:02, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
The claim that the results of the Referendum of the United Kingdom on the Membership of the United Kingdom in the European Union (2016), are "not legally binding", is tainted, or, is put into doubt by the fact that it was NEVER actually widely made (and was certainly never made on THIS article, here, on Wikipedia, and cited) BEFORE the (provisional) final results were announced and confirmed by the national chief Returning Officer from the Electoral Commission, in Manchester, based in one of the premises of Manchester City Council, sometime on June the 24th..
One of the last "clean" versions of the article, and the last version dated June the 23rd..
This question is in fact not first raised by me, but by Peter Lilley MP (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Conservative), who said ( Hansard: House of Commons; 5 September 2016; Volume 614), by his speech in the debate (regarding the e-Petition Number 131215; relating to EU referendum rules ),
"The final argument I want to deal with is that the referendum was only advisory. I debated daily with remainers—sometimes three times a day—but not once did a remain opponent say to the audience, “Oh by the way, this referendum is just advisory. If you give us the wrong advice we will ignore the result and remain in the EU anyway or perhaps call another referendum or vote against application of article 50 and the referendum result until we get the right result.” Did any Opposition Member say that to an audience and can they give me chapter and verse of them saying that they would treat the result as advisory and ignore it if they did not like it? Not one of them did. Now they are pretending that the whole thing was advisory. I forget which hon. Member said that was made clear during the debate.
"On the contrary, the then Foreign Secretary, who introduced the Referendum Bill, said that it was giving the decision to the British people. When launching the campaign, the Prime Minister said:
""This is a straight democratic decision—staying in or leaving—and no Government can ignore that. Having a second renegotiation followed by a second referendum is not on the ballot paper. For a Prime Minister to ignore the express will of the British people to leave the EU would be not just wrong, but undemocratic." —(Official Report, 22 February 2016; Vol. 606, c. 24.)
"It was spelled out at the beginning of the referendum debate and again and again during it that this was a decisive choice for the British people. If we ignore that choice now and treat the British people with contempt, we will undermine their respect for democracy and prove how little faith we have in it."
Hansard transcripts
Recordings of proceedings in audio and video, or Audio-only
Recordings of proceedings (Audio-only)
David Lammy MP (Tottenham) (Labour) had indeed, on the same debate, cited the Briefing Paper issued by the House of Commons Library. He, however, erred, in that he either omitted by oversight, or he conveniently, for his own purpose, deliberately ignored and omitted the disclaimer, at the end of the document, which clearly states, at the end (Page 33 of 33 pages according to the Printers), that,
"Disclaimer - This information is provided to Members of Parliament in support of their parliamentary duties. It is a general briefing only and should not be relied on as a substitute for specific advice. The House of Commons or the author(s) shall not be liable for any errors or omissions, or for any loss or damage of any kind arising from its use, and may remove, vary or amend any information at any time without prior notice."
Bill documents — European Union Referendum Act 2015 (2015 c. 36)
European Union Referendum Bill 2015-16 (Briefing Paper) (Number 07212, 3 June 2015) (summary)
(in full) (.PDF)
(cached) (Google)
Essentially, the cited Brief Paper cannot be used or otherwise cited as an acceptable or reliable legal advice.
The article is otherwise generally written in a (rather strong) pro-Remain bias, especially the disproportionate use of pro-Remain publications (especially The Guardian and The Independent). -- 87.102.116.36 ( talk) 00:19, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
The War of 1812 is (unfortunately) notorious for arguments about who won it. Canadians (who are aware of the war at least) generally say they won it, Americans say they won it or it was a stalemate. While more historians say it was a stalemate, a body of mainly British Historians tend to say it was a British victory, American Historians tend to say it was a stalemate, or a US victory. There are books written to support both views. People have been arguing about who won it for 100 years, and probably will for another 1000.
So on the War of 1812 page, after some discussion it was decided to include both viewpoints in the infobox, rather like the results in Battle_of_Ia_Drang, also a conflict where both sides think they won the conflict. Unfortunately, the Canadian/British centric result was later removed, leaving the US centric result only. I have attempted to put it back in via the talk page, and attempted to start a mediation to return the Canadian/British view so that IMHO the article meets NPOV...but with no luck. Most of the active Wikipedians on the page are from the US and support the US centric view that Canada/Britain didn't win the war, and that it was a stalemate.
In summary, it concerns me that we have a US centric historical viewpoint, argued by US historians and supported by US wikipedians on this page, with the removal of a Canadian/British viewpoint, mainly supported by British Historians. My suggestion would be to have it like the Battle of Ia Drang. This was a battle between Vietnamese forces and US forces, who both argue they won it from their own perspectives, and the infobox indicates the result is disputed. In the war of 1812's case, the result is disputed to indicate the two national opinions on either side of the border, and the difference of opinions between British Historians and US historians.
Lengthy discussion here. [ [18]] Deathlibrarian ( talk) 08:59, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Comment: Deathlibrarian, TFD: is there a link in the talk page archives where we can review a list of historians and their comments on the war's outcome? That would help to evaluate: right now on the talk page I don't see that presentation of sources. - Darouet ( talk) 14:57, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This article states in the first sentence that race in humans is a "social construct".
The same article states that this means that it is arbitrarily applied to humans for political reasons, and is not valid according to any standards of biology. While it is true that that appears to be a consensus view in American sociology, it drops off from a majority to minority to fringe view in American anthropology, American biology, international anthropology, and international biology. Numerous sources including surveys of experts have demonstrated this, contemporary scholars whatever their position agree there is no consensus. Many of these sources are on the talk page, I can reference them on request.
There is no question that some race classifications can be an arbitrary social construct (eg. one drop rule, Asians), but mixed views on whether other race classifications can be biologically valid (usually overall genetic or phenetic similarity or inferred shared ancestry). So we should put in both views ie. biological or social construct.
At the moment their appears to be a tagteam operating on the article to maintain the American sociology POV status quo: User:Maunus, User:EvergreenFir. Stonewalling tactics are apparent. Editors are told to "seek consensus". No amount of demonstration will be accepted. Biological race is "fringe" a priori. Multiple sources to the contrary are simply ignored. Several non regular editors have dropped by to question the POV. [20] [21] [22] [23] This team is always around to revert and ignore.
Maunus has deployed a subject changing tactic of offering an entire article rewrite rather than admit one word change in the lead. [24] There is no hope of any agreement on his article rewrite, which is biased towards a view which was not even consensus in 90s American sociology, if he cannot change one word based on international surveys. This is a stonewalling tactic.
Tiny Dancer 48 ( talk) 15:08, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
Taking note that it says "Race as a social construct" rather than "Race is a social construct" I don't see a problem. Other significant views on race are represented in the same paragraph. Given that the most common usage of the word tends to be in the sense that is a social construct, and race as a biological concept is not particularly informative or predictive, I don't see a problem with the current weighting overall. It does seem odd that the concept of haplogroup is treated mainly in a U.S.-centric subsection. Rhoark ( talk) 17:21, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
For note, Tiny Dancer was originally engaging in significant WP:OR by listing a ton of old primary sources which talk about race as biological (e.g., Darwin, Dawkin, Mayr). AFAIK, the stance that race is biological (as opposed to being based on biological characteristics) is not widely held. The American Medical Association, for example, says race is a cultural construct in their manual of style ( [29]). I admit being INVOLVED here, but frankly I think this user is trying quite hard to push their POV and has dismissed the current definition, Wikipedia, and its edits as " cultural Marxists" and dismissed the American Anthropological Association as " a stacked leftist executive board with no membership voting". Since they just got off their block for edit warring, they came here to further push the issue. I'm curious what uninvolved others think, but am skeptical of Tiny Dancer's motives here. EvergreenFir (talk) 17:55, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
Strkalj, The Status of the Race Concept in Contemporary Biological Anthropology: A Review, 2007
Text from "Biological definitions" section |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Biological definitions
The race concept arose in the context of Linnaen taxonomy, which was based on phenotypic resemblance, to describe intraspecific lineages defined genealogically, or by descent. Kant: "What is a race? The word is not to be found in any systematic description of nature [Linnaen taxonomy], so presumably the thing itself is nowhere to be found in nature. The concept which this expression designates is, however, surely well established in the reason of every observer of nature who supposes a self-peculiar feature in different animals produced from interbreeding, that is to say, a union of cause that does not lie in the concept of its species but was certainly placed originally in the lineal stem stock of the species itself. The fact that the word race does not appear in the description of nature (but instead, in its place, the word variety) cannot keep an observer of nature from finding it necessary from the viewpoint of natural history." (On the Use of Teleological Principles in Philosophy) Darwin: "Grant all races of man descended from one race; grant that all structure of each race of man were perfectly known – grant that a perfect table of descent of each race was perfectly known – grant all this, & then do you not think that most would prefer as the best classification, a genealogical one, even if it did occasionally put one race not quite so near to another, as it would have stood, if allocated by structure alone. Generally, we may safely presume, that the resemblance of races & their pedigrees would go together." (Darwin, letter 204) However, descent based phylogenetics was subsumed in the 20th century due to concerns that it was possible for organisms with different descent to be genetically more similar, rendering descent based classification less informative. Mayr: "In phylogeny, where thousands and millions of generations are involved, thousands and millions of occasions for a change in gene frequencies owing to mutation, recombination, and selection, it is no longer legitimate to express relationship in terms of genealogy. The amount of genotypic similarity now becomes the dominant consideration for a biologist … When a biologist speaks of phylogenetic relationship, he means relationship in gene content rather than cladistic genealogy." Modern biological definitions of race thus tend to use overall genetic similarity as the criterion: Hulse (1962): “Races are breeding populations which can be readily distinguished from one another on genetic grounds alone. They are not types, as are a few of the so-called races within the European population, such as Nordics and Alpines. It is the breeding population into which one was born which determines one’s race, not one’s personal characteristics.” Dobzhansky (1970): “A race is a Mendelian population, not a single genotype; it consists of individuals who differ genetically among themselves … This is not to deny that a racial classification should ideally take cognizance of all genetically variable traits, oligogenic as well as polygenic." Hartl and Clark (1997): "In population genetics, a race is a group of organisms in a species that are genetically more similar to each other than they are to the members of other such groups. Populations that have undergone some degree of genetic differentiation as measured by, for example, Fst, therefore qualify as races." Dawkins (2004): "But that doesn’t mean that race is of “virtually no genetic or taxonomic significance.” This is Edwards’s point, and he reasons as follows. However small the racial partition of total variation may be, if such racial characteristics as there are highly correlated with other racial characteristics, they are by definition informative, and therefore of taxonomic significance." Leroi (2005): "Populations that share by descent a set of genetic variants in common that are collectively rare in everyone else." Coyne (2014). “To a biologist, races are simply genetically differentiated populations, and human populations are genetically differentiated. Although it’s a subjective exercise to say how many races there are, human genetic differentiation seems to cluster largely by continent, as you’d expect if that differentiation evolved in allopatry (geographic isolation).” |
Yudell, M., Roberts, D., DeSalle, R., & Tishkoff, S. (2016). Taking race out of human genetics
Cartmill 1998
Anemone 2011 (Referenced for first sentence!)
The race concept in six regions: variation without consensus. 2004 Lieberman L1, Kaszycka KA, Martinez Fuentes AJ, Yablonsky L, Kirk RC, Strkalj G, Wang Q, Sun L.
Tiny Dancer 48 ( talk) 18:42, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
I move that we close this thread. When this discussion began I had no prior interaction with Tiny Dancer, but it has become apparent they are totally uninterested in the science of human genetics. This whole discussion is a monumental waste of time and looks like a WP:TROJAN horse for far-right politics. - Darouet ( talk) 17:11, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
Category:Violence against men.
Someone else deal with them, please.
jps ( talk) 20:20, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Well that was quick. This follows this conversation where the user tried to remove the cat from the Domestic Violence article. My final response was to take it up with the cat if you don't think it should explicitly include domestic violence. Of course I didn't mean unilaterally change the language; I meant to gain consensus there, but I suppose I could have been more clear in that given their block log. TimothyJosephWood 22:06, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Please comment here: Category talk:Violence against men#Which version is better?. jps ( talk) 18:17, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
There is currently an ongoing dispute in the talkpage of the John A. McDougall article about a particular claim therein, specifically about whether the McDougall Plan is a "fad diet" (among other claims) and—more importantly—whether the source cited to support that claims are adequate. The claims, from the lead, are as follows:
McDougall's diet—The McDougall Plan—has been categorized as a fad diet that carries some disadvantages, such as a boring food choice and the risk of feeling hungry.
The claims are again stated in John A. McDougall § McDougall Plan criticism as follows:
McDougall's namesake diet, The McDougall Plan, has been categorized as a fad diet with possible disadvantages including a boring food choice, flatulence, and the risk of feeling hungry.
This issue is relevant to WP:NPOV because the claims and their accompanying source (assuming it's upheld) are, in my opinion, being given undue weight to achieve a false balance by being included in the lead. Moreover, I would question whether the claim is itself consistent with WP:NPOV, particularly WP:ASSERT and WP:WikiVoice, given how it is being stated as an unqualified fact despite it clearly being the opinions of the authors of the source. At the very least, these claims and accompanying source should be removed from the article lead and qualified as being the opinions of the authors, assuming the claims and source are even upheld. This is my opinion, at least, and I invite further input on this matter.
For the record, I have also submitted reports on the Reliable Sources Noticeboard and Biographies of Living Persons Noticeboard, which can be found here and here, respectively. Alexbrn has also submitted a report to the Fringe Theories Noticeboard, which can be found here. ― Nøkkenbuer ( talk • contribs) 21:24, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
In this article, Kautilya3 has added a irrelevant citation [1] which is not related to "2016 Uri Attack" [2]. Hence a request has been sent to author Kautilya3 for removal of text on article talk page [3] However, user has not taken WP:NOPV and WP:BALASP into consideration and has also made more insertion in discussed text [4].
It is requested to remove the article based on irrelevancy [5] and lack of balance WP:BALASP
Rugby9090 ( talk) 15:24, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
References
Opinions are needed on the following: Talk:Murder of JonBenét Ramsey#Requested move 20 September 2016. Among the concerns noted in the move discussion is whether or not WP:Undue weight is being given to a recent documentary. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 15:48, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
Tiny Dancer has been indefinitely blocked - immediately after a 48 hour block for personal attacks, he responded with ":::Bye for now US kike slave. Tiny Dancer 48 ( talk) 18:59, 20 September 2016 (UTC)" and when reverted, "oh no I used an "ethnic slur" while kikes demonize and genocide whites." He was a sockpuppet of the banned editor User:MIkemikev. Doug Weller talk 15:22, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
/info/en/?search=Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States
The way that this article is edited is extremely biased in its favor of one race over the other, and considering the fact that these are incredibly divisive subjects in the country as well as the fact that subjects when worded this way can sway the minds of people in one direction versus the other, politically, morally, among other ways, this is dangerous. I'm asking that something be done about this because even people in the Talk section of this page are incredibly racist, someone suggested that black people supposedly rape white people exactly 100 times more than the other way around, and were being extremely heated in their wording, and this is not only incorrect but reinforcing stereotypes that are at an all time high in scrutiny in the united states. Under the "see also" section was a link to a book by a conservative author titled "White Girl Bleed A Lot," which is an incredibly racist title and also the book is clearly stated under reception to have been largely biased and warped, and should not be something that is a springboard from a supposedly unbiased article. There is no doubt in my mind that the people editing these pages have ulterior motives. I beg that something be done about this, and articles like this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.83.33.129 ( talk) 02:12, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
So did you completely ignore everything else that I said? Yeah, it's not on the page because I removed it. I referenced the talk page so you could see what the motives are behind the people editing the main page, which I guess you chose not to acknowledge. Way to go. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.83.33.129 ( talk) 15:10, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
I have an issue with the lead of the article. Since I'm tired of arguing with the editors here and I'm not really an editor myself (don't really know how to handle disputes), I'm passing the ball to someone else who may want or may not want to alert some higher-ups. So, to sum it up, the intro says that "[Bret] Hart changed the perception of mainstream wrestling in the early 1990s by bringing technical in-ring performance to the fore". [no source]
It appeared really puffery to me, so I asked for clarification. An editor said that it was reported in an IGN article and that they had just reworded everything a little. Per WP:PEACOCK I said that the quote should have been reported as a quote and not as a fact (and proposed an edit that reflected the policy), yet the editors kept categorically rolled back everything. This was my revision: "according to IGN, Hart winning the WWF title in 1992 "changed the entire industry, re-setting the WWF back to the days of technical wizardry and reshaping all our notions of what a great wrestling match should actually look and feel like". [source: article, quoted ad litteram from what the editor claimed it was the source]
In the talk page, the argument eventually evolved into the claim that the bit in the lead was ultimately "a widespread opinion", according to editor that kept rolling everything back. Needless to say that I disagree with it, but there's this wall of two/three editors who simply believe that there's some kind of bias on my part. Is there something wrong and is it really preferable to keep the article like that or not?
151.35.36.60 ( talk) 02:27, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
Please participate at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Gamergate draft. Rhoark ( talk) 03:15, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
The current stable version of the lead of James Watson describes certain controversial comments that led to Watson's resignation in 2007 thusly:
Over the past months several editors (most recently myself) have attempted to change this wording to one which they argue more accurately represents third party coverage of Watson's comments (diffs: [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37] [38] [39]). Suggestions have included:
These changes have been reverted by others who argue that they imply Watson is racist, and that this violates WP:NPOV, WP:BLP and/or WP:ARBR&I. Numerous discussions on the talk page have failed to resolve the dispute, most recently Talk:James Watson#"Geographic ancestry" - is that like being descended from an atlas?, and I think a wider discussion amongst uninvolved editors is sorely needed.
The references below are a good summary of the sources on the issue, but a google search will turn up many more. Pinging @ Zaostao, Carwil, Collect, Klortho, Landerman56, and Ianmacm:. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joe Roe ( talk • contribs)
References
... he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours, whereas all the testing says not really".
Thank you for posting this here on the NPOV noticeboard. It seems an important and disputed question of content in that article. It's important to be accurate and to not whitewash anything. From one CNN article:
Watson was quoted as saying he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours, whereas all the testing says not really." He also asserted there was no reason to believe different races separated by geography should have evolved identically, and that while he hoped everyone was equal, "people who have to deal with black employees find this is not true."
and from this CNN article "Nobel winner in 'racist' claim row":
The American professor's words have been roundly condemned as "racist," with fellow scientists dismissing his claims as "genetic nonsense." "He should recognize that statements of this sort have racist functions and are to be deeply, deeply regretted," said Professor Steven Rose of the British Open University.
There it does seem the use of the term "racist comments" is justified from these sources. SageRad ( talk) 12:33, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
New eyes are very much appreciated, but unfortunately posting to this noticeboard hasn't brought any besides your own! To that end, I've taken Collect's suggestion and started an RfC at Talk:James Watson#RfC on comments leading to Watson's resignation. Joe Roe ( talk) 21:24, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
At the moment, the article on Joseph Conrad says "Though he did not speak English fluently until he was in his twenties, he was a master prose stylist who brought a non-English sensibility into English literature". I can hardly imagine a clearer violation of NPOV than that. I tried to amend it to say that he was regarded as being a master prose stylist, which complies with NPOV and V. However, for reasons that have not been made clear, my edits have been undone, and the talk page discussion I started had been deleted, several times. I assume that no-one would argue that the current line is neutral. Thus, I hope someone will go and make the necessary changes. On the other hand, if you can think of a serious argument that this text does in fact comply with NPOV, I'd love to hear it. 82.132.240.93 ( talk) 15:19, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
The opinions of editors on this matter is not what's important to determining content -- it's what good reliable sources say about this matter that can be brought to support the content. Please find good reliable sources to describe Conrad's use of language and this is what we include. SageRad ( talk) 15:48, 24 September 2016 (UTC
It's extremely possible that I'm missing something, but where is this user banned? Arkon ( talk) 21:50, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
The community reassessment could use input on the neutrality of the article. The discussion is happening here: GAR: Joachim Helbig. Thank you. K.e.coffman ( talk) 23:52, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
Another editor had placed a notice on this page: Unbalanced scales.svg This article may be unbalanced towards certain viewpoints. Please improve the article by adding information on neglected viewpoints, or discuss the issue on the talk page. (September 2016)
Yesterday, I added information to the article per that editor's good suggestion, and noted so on the article's talk page. This morning, I deleted that notice. Being new to Wikipedia, I just want to be sure I have acted properly in this instance.
Thank you. KIRTIS ( talk) 10:53, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
The subject is a British student politician who identifies as black based on her Algerian (North African) heritage. Whatever we might make of her racial identification in the United States, there is precedent in Britain for classifying North Africans as black.
See /info/en/?search=Black_people#Northern_Africa and black British; the latter page notes "[t]he term "black" has historically had a number of applications as a racial and political label, and may be used in a wider sociopolitical context to encompass a broader range of non-European ethnic minority populations in Britain. This is a controversial definition.[6] "Black British" is one of various self-designation entries used in official UK ethnicity classifications."
Moreover, Bouattia is classified as black in almost every reliable source in British media. See her wiki page and check out the sources in the lede. A minority have criticized her identity on the grounds that she is not sub-Saharan African, and these sources are covered in the article. In light of this, the best approach seems to be to describe her as Black British while covering the controversy about her racial identity.
Instead, some editors are insisting that all references to her being black (apart from the criticisms of her identity) be purged from the article. This is bias and, exasperated at the need to do periodic reversions on the page, I'm flagging it. Steeletrap ( talk) 21:41, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
The lede of the Ebrié article says "Originally called the "Tchaman" or "Achan" (both of which mean "the chosen ones" in the Ebrié language), the name Ébrié was given to them by the neighboring Abouré people. In the Abouré language, Ébrié means "dirty" or "soiled," and was given to them after a military defeat."
Wouldn't it be better to move the page to the name which is not derogatory? I am seeing them referred to as "Achan" in at least one article about Abidjan that seems to be written by somebody local, so it's not an obsolete name.
However, I am not at all a subject expert or all that familiar with WP policies on page moves so I thought I would ask here. I propose moving the page to Achan annd giving the Tchaman alternate name, then further down (not in lede, maybe in history) saying oh and the neighboring Abouré gave them a rude name when they defeated them (be nice to know when) in year whatever. They called them Ébrié, which means "soiled"... Elinruby ( talk) 07:53, 2 October 2016 (UTC) PS the name is spelled wrong in addition to being derogatory; there should be an accent aigu on the capital E. This does matter. Elinruby ( talk) 07:55, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
Participation in the RfC at Talk:Aquatic ape hypothesis is requested. The RfC asks whether presented sources require that the article should include the viewpoint that the theory is a form of pseudoscience or whether this viewpoint can be excluded entirely from the article. ·maunus · snunɐɯ· 20:09, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
I came across this article via the edits of an IP editor ( Special:Contributions/94.60.196.117) inserting neo-Nazi publications into articles. The article is in need of a cleaning up and could use some RS. I cleaned up the lead, but it was a drop in the bucket due to the amount of neo-Nazi fancruft.
In addition, Jonathan Bowden is part of the same far-right cluster, where Southgate was used as as source: diff. More eyes on this article would be appreciated. K.e.coffman ( talk) 21:10, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
I would appreciate another set of eyes on the article where an editor restored removed material stating that the web site is suitable to use as a source. Please see: Talk:Günther_Seeger#Recent edit. The material reinstated is not NPOV from my reading of things. Thank you. K.e.coffman ( talk) 00:20, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
Wikipedia is presenting her as a saint. Its one thing to present the evidence, it is another to promote on a page with hash tags. Also, unrelated information is posted about the farmer- I disagree with the fine being posted. I don't understand how that adds to her case (or improves it). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.7.14.241 ( talk) 23:24, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
"Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons" - if it is about the case only, as you have stated, then you must remove from Anita Krajnc Case's talk the box that says it is part of a biographies of living persons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.253.130.36 ( talk) 04:33, 26 September 2016 (UTC) What a crock of Sh**. If it was strictly about her case it would be a boring article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.84.127.159 ( talk) 01:17, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
Hi, Anita is in the news again! http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/woman-already-on-trial-for-giving-water-to-pigs-arrested-after-pig-truck-rollover-1.3791972 Make sure to include she has been arrested again for obstruction of a police officer. Thanks, since I can't add it myself. Get rid of farmer fine too — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.253.131.44 ( talk) 06:32, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
I'd like to draw attention to this page, as it appears to have attracted some deletionist/revertionist editors, one who has stated he wanted to delete the page and put it under the heading of delusional parasitosis, when there has only been one study by the CDC with a small sample size and they only used that term once in their report. Now I am being told that the only large scale scientific study is not even MEDRS, according to Jytdog
And the present wikipedia article, as it stands is not a good understanding of what morgellons is, and does not even reflect in tone or attitude articles such as this published in Newsweek. (of which there are many I have linked in the Talk:Morgellons page)
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/08/12/morgellons-skin-disease-485638.html
This article has been labelled as a fringe topic, even while it has received a lot of relatively unbiased mainstream media coverage.
The raging antonyms of advocacy seem to have run amok here, and this page does not seem to me to effectively communicate much in the way of a NPOV which provides much useful information to the users of wikipedia.
Probrooks ( talk) 08:48, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
Probrooks ( talk) 01:28, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
This comprehensive study of an unexplained apparent dermopathy demonstrated no infectious cause and no evidence of an environmental link. There was no indication that it would be helpful to perform additional testing for infectious diseases as a potential cause. Future efforts should focus on helping patients reduce their symptoms through careful attention to treatment of co-existing medical, including psychiatric conditions, that might be contributing to their symptoms.
Some group of authors keep changing caption to the satellite image in the article presented by Russian MoD making it nonneutral and biased [49] [50] [51] [52] [53] ignoring reliable sources. Before I posted a message here I conscientiously called those authors on the article talk page to follow WP:NPOV [54] [55] [56] [57]. Other conserned WP authors should pay attention to this in order to work out the overall consensus. Discussion is here: Talk:Malaysia Airlines Flight 17#Should this image be added to the article?-- Александр Мотин ( talk) 15:26, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
Randomly came across this article and I believe it's a POV fork of Malia Obama which currently redirects to Family_of_Barack_Obama#Malia_and_Sasha_Obama. K.e.coffman ( talk) 17:48, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
In the articles Serbs and Slavs, any total population figures lower than 12 million are removed. I warned and asked that the editors explain their edit according to WP:REVEXP, but the persistent edit war without edit summaries continue. I take that as silent crypto-nationalist WP:IDONTLIKEIT motivation and vandalism of sourced content, so to report it here. Judist ( talk) 13:33, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
Both our Tipu Sultan and Christianity in India articles (and probably others) include the following:
His skin had darkened to the swarthy complexion of negroes
I'm almost certain his is a quotation from a contemporary (eighteenth century) source, but it is not marked as such. The entire section in which the text is embedded (in both articles) is poorly written and very questionable. More eyes (better eyes than mine) would be good. Hijiri 88 ( 聖 やや) 22:35, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
Our James Scurry article marks "complexion of negroes" as a quotation from the guy's memoirs, meaning that the other two articles that don't are probably engaged in OR based on very old, biased, dubious primary sources. Hijiri 88 ( 聖 やや) 22:40, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
The lead for the Hamas article currently includes this material: "Hamas, its military wing, together with several charities it runs, has been designated by Israel, the United States, Canada, the European Union, Jordan, and Japan as a terrorist organization. Others regard this classification as problematic, simplistic or reductive.[49][50][51][52][53]" However the "others" being referred to are cherry-picked academics found in Google Books. Given that the entirety of the paragraph (minus this exception) is focused on international positions, the inclusion of this remark misleadingly makes it seem as if these "others" were other countries, and this random "counterpoint" is non-neutral. There can be a separate section for academic views of Hamas. Drsmoo ( talk) 16:06, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
Hamas, its military wing, together with several charities it runs, has been designated as a terrorist organization by Israel, the United States, Canada, the European Union, and Japan. Hamas has been outlawed in Jordan [1] Others regard this designation as problematic or simplistic. [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] Israel outlawed Hamas in 1989, followed by the United States in 1996 and Canada in 2002. The European Union defined Hamas's military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades as a terrorist organization in 2001, and put Hamas in its list of terrorist organizations in 2003, but such designation was successfully challenged by Hamas in the courts in 2014 on technical grounds. The judgment was appealed. In 2016 an EU legal advisor recommended that Hamas be removed from the list due to procedural errors. The final decision is not thought likely to effect individual government lists. [7] [8] An Egyptian court ruled Hamas was a terrorist organization in 2015. Japan froze Hamas assets according to its legislation on terrorist entities in 2006. Australia and the United Kingdom have designated the military wing of Hamas as a terrorist organization. The organization is also banned in Jordan. It is not regarded as a terrorist organization by Iran, Russia, Norway, Switzerland, Turkey, China, and Brazil.
References
In 1999, King Abdullah of Jordan outlawed Hamas after accusing it of breaking a deal to restrict its activities to politics.
Hamas has been designated a terrorist organization by Israel, the United States, the EU, Japan, Egypt and Canada. It is banned in Jordan.It is not regarded as a terrorist organization by Iran, Russia, Norway, Switzerland, Turkey, China, and Brazil. Many analysts view the designation as problematic, and Hamas successfully challenged in a court of law the EU classification in 2014.
Hamas, its military wing, together with several charities it runs, has been designated as a terrorist organization by Israel (1989), the United States (1996), Canada (2002), the European Union (2001/2003), Japan (2006) Egypt (2015), and was outlawed in Jordan (1999). It is not regarded as a terrorist organization by Iran, Russia, Norway, Switzerland, Turkey, China, and Brazil. Hamas appealed the EU blacklisting in 2008, and the European court found the earlier determination flawed. (2014). The European Council appealed the decision, and in 2016 its Advocate General advised that due to procedural errors, it should be dropped from the terror blacklist, unless proper and sufficient legal evidence to warrant its inclusion were forthcoming. Analysts have disputed the designation.
Hold on, Masem's suggestion in this comment here states that there is, in fact, a way of presenting academic debate on Hamas' designation without confusing academic and governmental designations. Nishidani's proposal above is consistent with Masem's suggestion, though I believe the text could be shortened.
Drsmoo, with no offense intended, your statement about apples and oranges appears confused and confusing. There is no universe in which published academic viewpoints are irrelevant to a wikipedia article: they are the bread and butter of reliable and neutral content. - Darouet ( talk) 20:39, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
UTC)
References
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
It has been noted that “(o)ne problem Israel has in common with other democracies is that it focuses narrowly on its foes’ use of terrorism and ignores the wider strategies. While most groups Israel faces, such as Hezbollah and Hamas, have carried out terrorist acts against civilians, they are also broader social and governing organizations. As a result, it is suggested Israel needs to take lessons from counterinsurgency “which addresses not only the military (or “kinetic” in American soldier parlance) dimensions but also the political, economic, and social ones as well.’ P.112
(Discussion continues below after the list of references.)
References
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link)
References
Drsmoo ( talk) 05:23, 16 October 2016 (UTC)Hamas, its military wing, together with several charities it runs, has been designated as a terrorist organization by Israel (1989), the United States (1996), Canada (2002), the European Union (2001/2003), Japan (2006) Egypt (2015), and was outlawed in Jordan (1999). It is not regarded as a terrorist organization by Iran, Russia, Norway, Switzerland, Turkey, China, and Brazil. Hamas appealed the EU blacklisting in 2008, and the European court found the earlier determination flawed. (2014). The European Council appealed the decision, and in 2016 its Advocate General advised that due to procedural errors, it should be dropped from the terror blacklist, unless proper and sufficient legal evidence to warrant its inclusion were forthcoming. It is a point of debate in political and academic circles over whether or not to classify Hamas as a terrorist group."
Hamas has been designated a terrorist organization by Israel, the United States, the EU, Japan, Egypt and Canada. It is banned in Jordan.It is not regarded as a terrorist organization by Iran, Russia, Norway, Switzerland, Turkey, China, and Brazil. Many analysts view the designation as problematic, and Hamas successfully challenged in a court of law the EU classification in 2014.
(A=Nihshidani)Hamas, its military wing, together with several charities it runs, has been designated as a terrorist organization by Israel (1989), the United States (1996), Canada (2002), the European Union (2001/2003), Japan (2006) Egypt (2015), and was outlawed in Jordan (1999). It is not regarded as a terrorist organization by Iran, Russia, Norway, Switzerland, Turkey, China, and Brazil. Hamas appealed the EU blacklisting in 2008, and the European court found the earlier determination flawed. (2014). The European Council appealed the decision, and in 2016 its Advocate General advised that due to procedural errors, it should be dropped from the terror blacklist, unless proper and sufficient legal evidence to warrant its inclusion were forthcoming. Analysts have disputed the designation.
(B=Drsmoo) Hamas, its military wing, together with several charities it runs, has been designated as a terrorist organization by Israel (1989), the United States (1996), Canada (2002), the European Union (2001/2003), Japan (2006) Egypt (2015), and was outlawed in Jordan (1999). It is not regarded as a terrorist organization by Iran, Russia, Norway, Switzerland, Turkey, China, and Brazil. Hamas appealed the EU blacklisting in 2008, and the European court found the earlier determination flawed. (2014). The European Council appealed the decision, and in 2016 its Advocate General advised that due to procedural errors, it should be dropped from the terror blacklist, unless proper and sufficient legal evidence to warrant its inclusion were forthcoming. It is a point of debate in political and academic circles over whether or not to classify Hamas as a terrorist group.
(C= Masem's précis) Hamas is considered a terrorist organization by (list), while (second list) have stated the group is not a terrorist organization, and Hamas has recently disputed the EU's classification as such in 2014. Whether or not to designate Hamas as as a terrorist organization is a point of debate by many political and academic analysts.
Hamas, its military wing, together with several charities it runs, has been designated as a terrorist organization by Israel (1989), the United States (1996), Canada (2002), the European Union (2001/2003), Japan (2006) Egypt (2015), and was outlawed in Jordan (1999). The EU decision is currently under appeal. It is not regarded as a terrorist organization by Iran, Russia, Norway, Switzerland, Turkey, China, and Brazil. It is a point of debate in political and academic circles over whether or not to classify Hamas as a terrorist group. Drsmoo ( talk) 21:36, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 55 | ← | Archive 59 | Archive 60 | Archive 61 | Archive 62 | Archive 63 | → | Archive 65 |
A request for comment has been made on the page for Jill Stein after a number of edits were rolled back without discussion. A careful and concise list of the major elements censored has been made and the question is: should some or all of this censored material be restored? Thank you for your help maintaining Wikipedia's reputation for neutrality.
To give the simplest example: The following text (in green) has been repeatedly blocked from addition to the page because the page owner does not believe it represents her "true" opinion on vaccines, the page owner believes instead that she is using dog-whistle terms... :
In a short article discussing these tweets at Forbes, Emily Willingham described Stein's statements on vaccines as "using dog whistle terms and equivocations bound to appeal to the “antivaccine” constituency". [1] In a later interview, at the Green Party convention, Stein stated that she did not believe that vaccines caused autism, and compared the media frenzy around the question to the birther issue which had been used against Barack Obama in 2008. [2]
Existing text on the page is in black, what I'm trying to include is in dark green. (I've added the fact that the smear quote is from a short article, because the editor is giving this polemical citation undue weight by citing all of Emily Willingham's credentials for a 100-word squib on a tweetstorm on the web version of a finance magazine...)
If you would like to come and remind the page owner that pages on Wikipedia are not owned, your help will be much appreciated!! (actually there appears to be a team of 3 working together, all of whom voted against the addition of the dark green text above to counterbalance the "dog whistle" takedown... with primary and secondary source material (see video in reference with commentary from Cenk Ugyur, who spoke at the DNC Convention, so is seemingly a credible source.)
Request for Comment (Jill Stein page)
SashiRolls ( talk) 23:37, 14 August 2016 (UTC)
An attempt to have the above user blocked from the site has failed, even though I offered to agree to accept a block myself in exchange, so others could work peacefully. His latest questionable action was to announce that he had he removed a section that consensus was calling for while, in fact, only removing the section title. People looking at the diff could mistakenly believe that he had removed the on 3rd party chances sections as he says he did in the edit summary, and as consensus has suggested is necessary. See Duverger's, Delete the 3rd party Chances Section, [1], and Doesn't seem neutral. I am taking the step of deleting the section to follow up on 6-8 users belief that it does not belong, even though I fully expect that I will be berated violently for doing so by [User:Snooganssnoogans|Snooganssnoogans] who seems to be hoping the "systemic bias" tag will remain as long as possible... SashiRolls ( talk) 10:28, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Thank you very much to all who have worked on the page trying to challenge this user's behavior. I have been singled out for the user's worst abuse, but still no official action has been taken. SashiRolls ( talk) 10:28, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Christian140 has raised some valid concerns at WT:SOCIOLOGY#Racism in South Korea that are relevant to this noticeboard. Since that project is not super-duper active, I wanted to call attention to it here as well since Christian's recent post indicates that he/she's about ready to give up and I think more input from uninvolved editors is needed. I'm going to try to take a closer look later, but I don't have any background knowledge on the article in question ( Racism in South Korea). —PermStrump (talk) 17:52, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
Weeks ago, Trivialist unfairly destroyed the Family Home Entertainment (or FHE for short) page and redirected it to the Artisan Entertainment page ( here) just because he thinks that FHE was a former name of the company, so I reverted it a few days ago but he and the others kept adding the redirect back ( here, here, here, here, and here). I tried to revert the FHE page back to the way it was several times, and I even threatened them for adding the redirect back. But then they blocked me and I tried so hard to remind anyone on my talk page that FHE was the name of the KIDS AND FAMILY SUBSIDIARY of Artisan, not just one of the parent company's former names. It's just that FHE became a LABEL of the parent company after the latter was incorporated as International Video Entertainment in 1986. (I even said this on the article's talk page.) Can you please remove the page's redirect to the Artisan page and add all of its content back? 68.2.123.163 ( talk) 00:02, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
You are invited to participate in Talk:Donald Trump#RfC: Donald Trump's false campaign statements. -- Dr. Fleischman ( talk) 17:48, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
Editors are invited to review Talk:Jill Stein#RfC: Should the article discuss a crowd-funded YouTube documentary or include a quotation from Chris Hedges stating that "the Democratic Party is one of the engines for ... proto-fascism," or include similar content?. Neutrality talk 19:36, 25 August 2016 (UTC)
This issue was originally posted here but the discussion has been abruptly closed because it was in the "wrong venue". It is primarily an issue of source unreliability, however it could also be viewed as a problem of "point of view", so this could be the right place for such an issue.
Articles such as:
Are in a horrible state as they appear to have become platforms of propaganda for a certain religious ideology who sees inflated statistical data as its strength and weapon. However, the main problem is that those articles (or major parts of them) are constructed on unreliable sources such as tabloids and low-level journalism (which by definition is not academic, and by Wikipedia standards should not be used as a source here), for example articles from The Guardian or The Economist, and ostensively biased agencies such as the "World Christian Encyclopedia". I have also discovered that the user who has recently revised those articles or the Christianity-related sections of those articles has made an unfair use of some sources (and in this case I refer to the few good quality ones, academico books, that apparently (deceptively) are referenced), reporting information that those sources do not contain.
I ask for help from administrators and other editors in dealing with this issue, to purge those articles from the aforementioned bad quality sources.-- 151.68.153.125 ( talk) 21:51, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
Hello, Wikipedians! I hope editors experienced in WP:NPOV issues can look at a conversation on the Walmart Talk page. To summarize: An editor recently added a subsection to the article called Growing crime problem based on a report from Bloomberg. I made an edit request asking editors to include two sentences about Walmart's efforts to curb crimes, citing the aforementioned Bloomberg story and another one. Two editors have weighed in, Sammy1339 and Meters. I would not want to attempt to summarize their opinions, as both editors have clearly stated their viewpoints already. However, as the discussion is at a standstill, it seems more input is needed. Thanks, JLD at Walmart ( talk) 17:32, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
At War in Donbass, RGloucester and Iryna Harpy are insisting ( [4], [5]) that we keep scare quotes around the term humanitarian convoy, editorially implying, in wikipedia's voice, that usage of the term is absurd or misleading. The term is already attributed to Russia in writing: "what Russia called a humanitarian convoy".
RGloucester maintains at Talk:War in Donbass that "It is a direct quote FROM THE SOURCE" (caps in the original), and that removing the quotes would render us guilty of WP:OR. However, none of the five sources used in this paragraph ( [6], [7], [8], [9], [10]) directly quote Russian officials when using this term - the sources are paraphrasing - and it is therefore false to suggest that quotation marks are necessary to denote exact Russian language from any of these sources. It is furthermore unclear why quotation marks are necessary in this specific instance, when the construction of the sentence clearly indicates this phrase originates with Russia.
I am not sure if there may be a language proficiency problem in terms of identifying sarcasm, or a POV problem in terms of thinking that scare quotes are justified, but more eyes would be appreciated. Obviously if scare quotes were permitted around any phrase appearing in a newspaper, POV-pushers would have a field day all across the encyclopedia, and maintain in every case "It is a direct quote FROM THE SOURCE." - Darouet ( talk) 13:29, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
In order to check that a source had been represented fairly and to determine how to neutrally present material, I asked an editor to quote the relevant material from a newly cited book or to supply a link so that I could read it myself. He refused to do either. Do I have recourse to any action or is my only resort to make a general request to other editors to look up the material for me? ← ZScarpia 19:09, 28 August 2016 (UTC)
Guys, I've just noticed and tried the "Search Inside" box on Drawing Fire's Google Books page. Through that I've managed to access the relevant page and confirmed that Pogrund did write what Epson Salts claimed and that he was referring to the incident in Haiti. Now there is just the neutrality issue to deal with. As a result I'm prepared, for the moment at least, to go with the article using "baseless" rumours or claims. I'd like to point out the logic of the situation, though: because no (at least public) investigation was carried out, nobody who was not directly involved can actually know for sure whether in fact the suspicions were 'baseless' or not. ← ZScarpia 14:14, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
TL;DR. To ZScarpia: I don't know what you want here. The discussion here should be on the talkpage. And problems with user conduct aren't dealt here - you need to go to the drama boards.
Kingsindian
♝
♚ 15:37, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
Should Jill Stein be allowed to have a Political positions page as the rest of the candidates do, and if so, is there currently undue weight given to her "political positions" (many of which originally written by editors opposed to them) on her biography page? This is the question for which a request for comment has been opened here. As stated before by other editors, this page urgently needs "more eyes". SashiRolls ( talk) 18:34, 30 August 2016 (UTC)
A edit of mine has been reverted multiple times by User:Lysimachi who says that it violates WP:NPOV. There was a previous Dispute resolution case on this Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard/Archive_141#Talk:Han_Taiwanese.23Lead_sentence_WikiLink but the status is unresolved. According to User:Lysimachi, saying that "Han Taiwanese" are ethnically "Han Chinese" violates WP:UNDUE ( Diff). The term "Han Chinese" is used in multiple sources and I don't see why we should not mention it at all in this article. The term "Chinese" is an ethnic term and differentiates the Taiwanese of Han Chinese descent from those of Aboriginal descent. I'm struggling to understand where is the NPOV violation here. -- Lemongirl942 ( talk) 18:57, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
A RFC posted at Project Automobiles is discussing two similar article edits:
Springee ( talk) 19:43, 9 September 2016 (UTC)
Mena Intermountain Municipal Airport ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
I just removed an unsourced section about conspiracy theories, but another section that attempts to collate such conspiracy theories remains. I feel as though this whole discussion is basically a coatrack especially because the most reliable sources basically conclude that no one in government knew anything about the use of this airport as a drug trafficking drop point. Help on this article would be greatly appreciated.
jps ( talk) 11:02, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
The claim that the results of the Referendum of the United Kingdom on the Membership of the United Kingdom in the European Union (2016), are "not legally binding", is tainted, or, is put into doubt by the fact that it was NEVER actually widely made (and was certainly never made on THIS article, here, on Wikipedia, and cited) BEFORE the (provisional) final results were announced and confirmed by the national chief Returning Officer from the Electoral Commission, in Manchester, based in one of the premises of Manchester City Council, sometime on June the 24th..
One of the last "clean" versions of the article, and the last version dated June the 23rd..
This question is in fact not first raised by me, but by Peter Lilley MP (Hitchin and Harpenden) (Conservative), who said ( Hansard: House of Commons; 5 September 2016; Volume 614), by his speech in the debate (regarding the e-Petition Number 131215; relating to EU referendum rules ),
"The final argument I want to deal with is that the referendum was only advisory. I debated daily with remainers—sometimes three times a day—but not once did a remain opponent say to the audience, “Oh by the way, this referendum is just advisory. If you give us the wrong advice we will ignore the result and remain in the EU anyway or perhaps call another referendum or vote against application of article 50 and the referendum result until we get the right result.” Did any Opposition Member say that to an audience and can they give me chapter and verse of them saying that they would treat the result as advisory and ignore it if they did not like it? Not one of them did. Now they are pretending that the whole thing was advisory. I forget which hon. Member said that was made clear during the debate.
"On the contrary, the then Foreign Secretary, who introduced the Referendum Bill, said that it was giving the decision to the British people. When launching the campaign, the Prime Minister said:
""This is a straight democratic decision—staying in or leaving—and no Government can ignore that. Having a second renegotiation followed by a second referendum is not on the ballot paper. For a Prime Minister to ignore the express will of the British people to leave the EU would be not just wrong, but undemocratic." —(Official Report, 22 February 2016; Vol. 606, c. 24.)
"It was spelled out at the beginning of the referendum debate and again and again during it that this was a decisive choice for the British people. If we ignore that choice now and treat the British people with contempt, we will undermine their respect for democracy and prove how little faith we have in it."
Hansard transcripts
Recordings of proceedings in audio and video, or Audio-only
Recordings of proceedings (Audio-only)
David Lammy MP (Tottenham) (Labour) had indeed, on the same debate, cited the Briefing Paper issued by the House of Commons Library. He, however, erred, in that he either omitted by oversight, or he conveniently, for his own purpose, deliberately ignored and omitted the disclaimer, at the end of the document, which clearly states, at the end (Page 33 of 33 pages according to the Printers), that,
"Disclaimer - This information is provided to Members of Parliament in support of their parliamentary duties. It is a general briefing only and should not be relied on as a substitute for specific advice. The House of Commons or the author(s) shall not be liable for any errors or omissions, or for any loss or damage of any kind arising from its use, and may remove, vary or amend any information at any time without prior notice."
Bill documents — European Union Referendum Act 2015 (2015 c. 36)
European Union Referendum Bill 2015-16 (Briefing Paper) (Number 07212, 3 June 2015) (summary)
(in full) (.PDF)
(cached) (Google)
Essentially, the cited Brief Paper cannot be used or otherwise cited as an acceptable or reliable legal advice.
The article is otherwise generally written in a (rather strong) pro-Remain bias, especially the disproportionate use of pro-Remain publications (especially The Guardian and The Independent). -- 87.102.116.36 ( talk) 00:19, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
The War of 1812 is (unfortunately) notorious for arguments about who won it. Canadians (who are aware of the war at least) generally say they won it, Americans say they won it or it was a stalemate. While more historians say it was a stalemate, a body of mainly British Historians tend to say it was a British victory, American Historians tend to say it was a stalemate, or a US victory. There are books written to support both views. People have been arguing about who won it for 100 years, and probably will for another 1000.
So on the War of 1812 page, after some discussion it was decided to include both viewpoints in the infobox, rather like the results in Battle_of_Ia_Drang, also a conflict where both sides think they won the conflict. Unfortunately, the Canadian/British centric result was later removed, leaving the US centric result only. I have attempted to put it back in via the talk page, and attempted to start a mediation to return the Canadian/British view so that IMHO the article meets NPOV...but with no luck. Most of the active Wikipedians on the page are from the US and support the US centric view that Canada/Britain didn't win the war, and that it was a stalemate.
In summary, it concerns me that we have a US centric historical viewpoint, argued by US historians and supported by US wikipedians on this page, with the removal of a Canadian/British viewpoint, mainly supported by British Historians. My suggestion would be to have it like the Battle of Ia Drang. This was a battle between Vietnamese forces and US forces, who both argue they won it from their own perspectives, and the infobox indicates the result is disputed. In the war of 1812's case, the result is disputed to indicate the two national opinions on either side of the border, and the difference of opinions between British Historians and US historians.
Lengthy discussion here. [ [18]] Deathlibrarian ( talk) 08:59, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Comment: Deathlibrarian, TFD: is there a link in the talk page archives where we can review a list of historians and their comments on the war's outcome? That would help to evaluate: right now on the talk page I don't see that presentation of sources. - Darouet ( talk) 14:57, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
This article states in the first sentence that race in humans is a "social construct".
The same article states that this means that it is arbitrarily applied to humans for political reasons, and is not valid according to any standards of biology. While it is true that that appears to be a consensus view in American sociology, it drops off from a majority to minority to fringe view in American anthropology, American biology, international anthropology, and international biology. Numerous sources including surveys of experts have demonstrated this, contemporary scholars whatever their position agree there is no consensus. Many of these sources are on the talk page, I can reference them on request.
There is no question that some race classifications can be an arbitrary social construct (eg. one drop rule, Asians), but mixed views on whether other race classifications can be biologically valid (usually overall genetic or phenetic similarity or inferred shared ancestry). So we should put in both views ie. biological or social construct.
At the moment their appears to be a tagteam operating on the article to maintain the American sociology POV status quo: User:Maunus, User:EvergreenFir. Stonewalling tactics are apparent. Editors are told to "seek consensus". No amount of demonstration will be accepted. Biological race is "fringe" a priori. Multiple sources to the contrary are simply ignored. Several non regular editors have dropped by to question the POV. [20] [21] [22] [23] This team is always around to revert and ignore.
Maunus has deployed a subject changing tactic of offering an entire article rewrite rather than admit one word change in the lead. [24] There is no hope of any agreement on his article rewrite, which is biased towards a view which was not even consensus in 90s American sociology, if he cannot change one word based on international surveys. This is a stonewalling tactic.
Tiny Dancer 48 ( talk) 15:08, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
Taking note that it says "Race as a social construct" rather than "Race is a social construct" I don't see a problem. Other significant views on race are represented in the same paragraph. Given that the most common usage of the word tends to be in the sense that is a social construct, and race as a biological concept is not particularly informative or predictive, I don't see a problem with the current weighting overall. It does seem odd that the concept of haplogroup is treated mainly in a U.S.-centric subsection. Rhoark ( talk) 17:21, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
For note, Tiny Dancer was originally engaging in significant WP:OR by listing a ton of old primary sources which talk about race as biological (e.g., Darwin, Dawkin, Mayr). AFAIK, the stance that race is biological (as opposed to being based on biological characteristics) is not widely held. The American Medical Association, for example, says race is a cultural construct in their manual of style ( [29]). I admit being INVOLVED here, but frankly I think this user is trying quite hard to push their POV and has dismissed the current definition, Wikipedia, and its edits as " cultural Marxists" and dismissed the American Anthropological Association as " a stacked leftist executive board with no membership voting". Since they just got off their block for edit warring, they came here to further push the issue. I'm curious what uninvolved others think, but am skeptical of Tiny Dancer's motives here. EvergreenFir (talk) 17:55, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
Strkalj, The Status of the Race Concept in Contemporary Biological Anthropology: A Review, 2007
Text from "Biological definitions" section |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Biological definitions
The race concept arose in the context of Linnaen taxonomy, which was based on phenotypic resemblance, to describe intraspecific lineages defined genealogically, or by descent. Kant: "What is a race? The word is not to be found in any systematic description of nature [Linnaen taxonomy], so presumably the thing itself is nowhere to be found in nature. The concept which this expression designates is, however, surely well established in the reason of every observer of nature who supposes a self-peculiar feature in different animals produced from interbreeding, that is to say, a union of cause that does not lie in the concept of its species but was certainly placed originally in the lineal stem stock of the species itself. The fact that the word race does not appear in the description of nature (but instead, in its place, the word variety) cannot keep an observer of nature from finding it necessary from the viewpoint of natural history." (On the Use of Teleological Principles in Philosophy) Darwin: "Grant all races of man descended from one race; grant that all structure of each race of man were perfectly known – grant that a perfect table of descent of each race was perfectly known – grant all this, & then do you not think that most would prefer as the best classification, a genealogical one, even if it did occasionally put one race not quite so near to another, as it would have stood, if allocated by structure alone. Generally, we may safely presume, that the resemblance of races & their pedigrees would go together." (Darwin, letter 204) However, descent based phylogenetics was subsumed in the 20th century due to concerns that it was possible for organisms with different descent to be genetically more similar, rendering descent based classification less informative. Mayr: "In phylogeny, where thousands and millions of generations are involved, thousands and millions of occasions for a change in gene frequencies owing to mutation, recombination, and selection, it is no longer legitimate to express relationship in terms of genealogy. The amount of genotypic similarity now becomes the dominant consideration for a biologist … When a biologist speaks of phylogenetic relationship, he means relationship in gene content rather than cladistic genealogy." Modern biological definitions of race thus tend to use overall genetic similarity as the criterion: Hulse (1962): “Races are breeding populations which can be readily distinguished from one another on genetic grounds alone. They are not types, as are a few of the so-called races within the European population, such as Nordics and Alpines. It is the breeding population into which one was born which determines one’s race, not one’s personal characteristics.” Dobzhansky (1970): “A race is a Mendelian population, not a single genotype; it consists of individuals who differ genetically among themselves … This is not to deny that a racial classification should ideally take cognizance of all genetically variable traits, oligogenic as well as polygenic." Hartl and Clark (1997): "In population genetics, a race is a group of organisms in a species that are genetically more similar to each other than they are to the members of other such groups. Populations that have undergone some degree of genetic differentiation as measured by, for example, Fst, therefore qualify as races." Dawkins (2004): "But that doesn’t mean that race is of “virtually no genetic or taxonomic significance.” This is Edwards’s point, and he reasons as follows. However small the racial partition of total variation may be, if such racial characteristics as there are highly correlated with other racial characteristics, they are by definition informative, and therefore of taxonomic significance." Leroi (2005): "Populations that share by descent a set of genetic variants in common that are collectively rare in everyone else." Coyne (2014). “To a biologist, races are simply genetically differentiated populations, and human populations are genetically differentiated. Although it’s a subjective exercise to say how many races there are, human genetic differentiation seems to cluster largely by continent, as you’d expect if that differentiation evolved in allopatry (geographic isolation).” |
Yudell, M., Roberts, D., DeSalle, R., & Tishkoff, S. (2016). Taking race out of human genetics
Cartmill 1998
Anemone 2011 (Referenced for first sentence!)
The race concept in six regions: variation without consensus. 2004 Lieberman L1, Kaszycka KA, Martinez Fuentes AJ, Yablonsky L, Kirk RC, Strkalj G, Wang Q, Sun L.
Tiny Dancer 48 ( talk) 18:42, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
I move that we close this thread. When this discussion began I had no prior interaction with Tiny Dancer, but it has become apparent they are totally uninterested in the science of human genetics. This whole discussion is a monumental waste of time and looks like a WP:TROJAN horse for far-right politics. - Darouet ( talk) 17:11, 13 September 2016 (UTC)
Category:Violence against men.
Someone else deal with them, please.
jps ( talk) 20:20, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Well that was quick. This follows this conversation where the user tried to remove the cat from the Domestic Violence article. My final response was to take it up with the cat if you don't think it should explicitly include domestic violence. Of course I didn't mean unilaterally change the language; I meant to gain consensus there, but I suppose I could have been more clear in that given their block log. TimothyJosephWood 22:06, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
Please comment here: Category talk:Violence against men#Which version is better?. jps ( talk) 18:17, 19 September 2016 (UTC)
There is currently an ongoing dispute in the talkpage of the John A. McDougall article about a particular claim therein, specifically about whether the McDougall Plan is a "fad diet" (among other claims) and—more importantly—whether the source cited to support that claims are adequate. The claims, from the lead, are as follows:
McDougall's diet—The McDougall Plan—has been categorized as a fad diet that carries some disadvantages, such as a boring food choice and the risk of feeling hungry.
The claims are again stated in John A. McDougall § McDougall Plan criticism as follows:
McDougall's namesake diet, The McDougall Plan, has been categorized as a fad diet with possible disadvantages including a boring food choice, flatulence, and the risk of feeling hungry.
This issue is relevant to WP:NPOV because the claims and their accompanying source (assuming it's upheld) are, in my opinion, being given undue weight to achieve a false balance by being included in the lead. Moreover, I would question whether the claim is itself consistent with WP:NPOV, particularly WP:ASSERT and WP:WikiVoice, given how it is being stated as an unqualified fact despite it clearly being the opinions of the authors of the source. At the very least, these claims and accompanying source should be removed from the article lead and qualified as being the opinions of the authors, assuming the claims and source are even upheld. This is my opinion, at least, and I invite further input on this matter.
For the record, I have also submitted reports on the Reliable Sources Noticeboard and Biographies of Living Persons Noticeboard, which can be found here and here, respectively. Alexbrn has also submitted a report to the Fringe Theories Noticeboard, which can be found here. ― Nøkkenbuer ( talk • contribs) 21:24, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
In this article, Kautilya3 has added a irrelevant citation [1] which is not related to "2016 Uri Attack" [2]. Hence a request has been sent to author Kautilya3 for removal of text on article talk page [3] However, user has not taken WP:NOPV and WP:BALASP into consideration and has also made more insertion in discussed text [4].
It is requested to remove the article based on irrelevancy [5] and lack of balance WP:BALASP
Rugby9090 ( talk) 15:24, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
References
Opinions are needed on the following: Talk:Murder of JonBenét Ramsey#Requested move 20 September 2016. Among the concerns noted in the move discussion is whether or not WP:Undue weight is being given to a recent documentary. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 15:48, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
Tiny Dancer has been indefinitely blocked - immediately after a 48 hour block for personal attacks, he responded with ":::Bye for now US kike slave. Tiny Dancer 48 ( talk) 18:59, 20 September 2016 (UTC)" and when reverted, "oh no I used an "ethnic slur" while kikes demonize and genocide whites." He was a sockpuppet of the banned editor User:MIkemikev. Doug Weller talk 15:22, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
/info/en/?search=Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States
The way that this article is edited is extremely biased in its favor of one race over the other, and considering the fact that these are incredibly divisive subjects in the country as well as the fact that subjects when worded this way can sway the minds of people in one direction versus the other, politically, morally, among other ways, this is dangerous. I'm asking that something be done about this because even people in the Talk section of this page are incredibly racist, someone suggested that black people supposedly rape white people exactly 100 times more than the other way around, and were being extremely heated in their wording, and this is not only incorrect but reinforcing stereotypes that are at an all time high in scrutiny in the united states. Under the "see also" section was a link to a book by a conservative author titled "White Girl Bleed A Lot," which is an incredibly racist title and also the book is clearly stated under reception to have been largely biased and warped, and should not be something that is a springboard from a supposedly unbiased article. There is no doubt in my mind that the people editing these pages have ulterior motives. I beg that something be done about this, and articles like this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.83.33.129 ( talk) 02:12, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
So did you completely ignore everything else that I said? Yeah, it's not on the page because I removed it. I referenced the talk page so you could see what the motives are behind the people editing the main page, which I guess you chose not to acknowledge. Way to go. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.83.33.129 ( talk) 15:10, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
I have an issue with the lead of the article. Since I'm tired of arguing with the editors here and I'm not really an editor myself (don't really know how to handle disputes), I'm passing the ball to someone else who may want or may not want to alert some higher-ups. So, to sum it up, the intro says that "[Bret] Hart changed the perception of mainstream wrestling in the early 1990s by bringing technical in-ring performance to the fore". [no source]
It appeared really puffery to me, so I asked for clarification. An editor said that it was reported in an IGN article and that they had just reworded everything a little. Per WP:PEACOCK I said that the quote should have been reported as a quote and not as a fact (and proposed an edit that reflected the policy), yet the editors kept categorically rolled back everything. This was my revision: "according to IGN, Hart winning the WWF title in 1992 "changed the entire industry, re-setting the WWF back to the days of technical wizardry and reshaping all our notions of what a great wrestling match should actually look and feel like". [source: article, quoted ad litteram from what the editor claimed it was the source]
In the talk page, the argument eventually evolved into the claim that the bit in the lead was ultimately "a widespread opinion", according to editor that kept rolling everything back. Needless to say that I disagree with it, but there's this wall of two/three editors who simply believe that there's some kind of bias on my part. Is there something wrong and is it really preferable to keep the article like that or not?
151.35.36.60 ( talk) 02:27, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
Please participate at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Gamergate draft. Rhoark ( talk) 03:15, 12 September 2016 (UTC)
The current stable version of the lead of James Watson describes certain controversial comments that led to Watson's resignation in 2007 thusly:
Over the past months several editors (most recently myself) have attempted to change this wording to one which they argue more accurately represents third party coverage of Watson's comments (diffs: [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37] [38] [39]). Suggestions have included:
These changes have been reverted by others who argue that they imply Watson is racist, and that this violates WP:NPOV, WP:BLP and/or WP:ARBR&I. Numerous discussions on the talk page have failed to resolve the dispute, most recently Talk:James Watson#"Geographic ancestry" - is that like being descended from an atlas?, and I think a wider discussion amongst uninvolved editors is sorely needed.
The references below are a good summary of the sources on the issue, but a google search will turn up many more. Pinging @ Zaostao, Carwil, Collect, Klortho, Landerman56, and Ianmacm:. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joe Roe ( talk • contribs)
References
... he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours, whereas all the testing says not really".
Thank you for posting this here on the NPOV noticeboard. It seems an important and disputed question of content in that article. It's important to be accurate and to not whitewash anything. From one CNN article:
Watson was quoted as saying he was "inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa" because "all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours, whereas all the testing says not really." He also asserted there was no reason to believe different races separated by geography should have evolved identically, and that while he hoped everyone was equal, "people who have to deal with black employees find this is not true."
and from this CNN article "Nobel winner in 'racist' claim row":
The American professor's words have been roundly condemned as "racist," with fellow scientists dismissing his claims as "genetic nonsense." "He should recognize that statements of this sort have racist functions and are to be deeply, deeply regretted," said Professor Steven Rose of the British Open University.
There it does seem the use of the term "racist comments" is justified from these sources. SageRad ( talk) 12:33, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
New eyes are very much appreciated, but unfortunately posting to this noticeboard hasn't brought any besides your own! To that end, I've taken Collect's suggestion and started an RfC at Talk:James Watson#RfC on comments leading to Watson's resignation. Joe Roe ( talk) 21:24, 27 September 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
At the moment, the article on Joseph Conrad says "Though he did not speak English fluently until he was in his twenties, he was a master prose stylist who brought a non-English sensibility into English literature". I can hardly imagine a clearer violation of NPOV than that. I tried to amend it to say that he was regarded as being a master prose stylist, which complies with NPOV and V. However, for reasons that have not been made clear, my edits have been undone, and the talk page discussion I started had been deleted, several times. I assume that no-one would argue that the current line is neutral. Thus, I hope someone will go and make the necessary changes. On the other hand, if you can think of a serious argument that this text does in fact comply with NPOV, I'd love to hear it. 82.132.240.93 ( talk) 15:19, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
The opinions of editors on this matter is not what's important to determining content -- it's what good reliable sources say about this matter that can be brought to support the content. Please find good reliable sources to describe Conrad's use of language and this is what we include. SageRad ( talk) 15:48, 24 September 2016 (UTC
It's extremely possible that I'm missing something, but where is this user banned? Arkon ( talk) 21:50, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
The community reassessment could use input on the neutrality of the article. The discussion is happening here: GAR: Joachim Helbig. Thank you. K.e.coffman ( talk) 23:52, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
Another editor had placed a notice on this page: Unbalanced scales.svg This article may be unbalanced towards certain viewpoints. Please improve the article by adding information on neglected viewpoints, or discuss the issue on the talk page. (September 2016)
Yesterday, I added information to the article per that editor's good suggestion, and noted so on the article's talk page. This morning, I deleted that notice. Being new to Wikipedia, I just want to be sure I have acted properly in this instance.
Thank you. KIRTIS ( talk) 10:53, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
The subject is a British student politician who identifies as black based on her Algerian (North African) heritage. Whatever we might make of her racial identification in the United States, there is precedent in Britain for classifying North Africans as black.
See /info/en/?search=Black_people#Northern_Africa and black British; the latter page notes "[t]he term "black" has historically had a number of applications as a racial and political label, and may be used in a wider sociopolitical context to encompass a broader range of non-European ethnic minority populations in Britain. This is a controversial definition.[6] "Black British" is one of various self-designation entries used in official UK ethnicity classifications."
Moreover, Bouattia is classified as black in almost every reliable source in British media. See her wiki page and check out the sources in the lede. A minority have criticized her identity on the grounds that she is not sub-Saharan African, and these sources are covered in the article. In light of this, the best approach seems to be to describe her as Black British while covering the controversy about her racial identity.
Instead, some editors are insisting that all references to her being black (apart from the criticisms of her identity) be purged from the article. This is bias and, exasperated at the need to do periodic reversions on the page, I'm flagging it. Steeletrap ( talk) 21:41, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
The lede of the Ebrié article says "Originally called the "Tchaman" or "Achan" (both of which mean "the chosen ones" in the Ebrié language), the name Ébrié was given to them by the neighboring Abouré people. In the Abouré language, Ébrié means "dirty" or "soiled," and was given to them after a military defeat."
Wouldn't it be better to move the page to the name which is not derogatory? I am seeing them referred to as "Achan" in at least one article about Abidjan that seems to be written by somebody local, so it's not an obsolete name.
However, I am not at all a subject expert or all that familiar with WP policies on page moves so I thought I would ask here. I propose moving the page to Achan annd giving the Tchaman alternate name, then further down (not in lede, maybe in history) saying oh and the neighboring Abouré gave them a rude name when they defeated them (be nice to know when) in year whatever. They called them Ébrié, which means "soiled"... Elinruby ( talk) 07:53, 2 October 2016 (UTC) PS the name is spelled wrong in addition to being derogatory; there should be an accent aigu on the capital E. This does matter. Elinruby ( talk) 07:55, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
Participation in the RfC at Talk:Aquatic ape hypothesis is requested. The RfC asks whether presented sources require that the article should include the viewpoint that the theory is a form of pseudoscience or whether this viewpoint can be excluded entirely from the article. ·maunus · snunɐɯ· 20:09, 3 October 2016 (UTC)
I came across this article via the edits of an IP editor ( Special:Contributions/94.60.196.117) inserting neo-Nazi publications into articles. The article is in need of a cleaning up and could use some RS. I cleaned up the lead, but it was a drop in the bucket due to the amount of neo-Nazi fancruft.
In addition, Jonathan Bowden is part of the same far-right cluster, where Southgate was used as as source: diff. More eyes on this article would be appreciated. K.e.coffman ( talk) 21:10, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
I would appreciate another set of eyes on the article where an editor restored removed material stating that the web site is suitable to use as a source. Please see: Talk:Günther_Seeger#Recent edit. The material reinstated is not NPOV from my reading of things. Thank you. K.e.coffman ( talk) 00:20, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
Wikipedia is presenting her as a saint. Its one thing to present the evidence, it is another to promote on a page with hash tags. Also, unrelated information is posted about the farmer- I disagree with the fine being posted. I don't understand how that adds to her case (or improves it). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.7.14.241 ( talk) 23:24, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
"Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons" - if it is about the case only, as you have stated, then you must remove from Anita Krajnc Case's talk the box that says it is part of a biographies of living persons. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.253.130.36 ( talk) 04:33, 26 September 2016 (UTC) What a crock of Sh**. If it was strictly about her case it would be a boring article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.84.127.159 ( talk) 01:17, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
Hi, Anita is in the news again! http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/woman-already-on-trial-for-giving-water-to-pigs-arrested-after-pig-truck-rollover-1.3791972 Make sure to include she has been arrested again for obstruction of a police officer. Thanks, since I can't add it myself. Get rid of farmer fine too — Preceding unsigned comment added by 162.253.131.44 ( talk) 06:32, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
I'd like to draw attention to this page, as it appears to have attracted some deletionist/revertionist editors, one who has stated he wanted to delete the page and put it under the heading of delusional parasitosis, when there has only been one study by the CDC with a small sample size and they only used that term once in their report. Now I am being told that the only large scale scientific study is not even MEDRS, according to Jytdog
And the present wikipedia article, as it stands is not a good understanding of what morgellons is, and does not even reflect in tone or attitude articles such as this published in Newsweek. (of which there are many I have linked in the Talk:Morgellons page)
http://www.newsweek.com/2016/08/12/morgellons-skin-disease-485638.html
This article has been labelled as a fringe topic, even while it has received a lot of relatively unbiased mainstream media coverage.
The raging antonyms of advocacy seem to have run amok here, and this page does not seem to me to effectively communicate much in the way of a NPOV which provides much useful information to the users of wikipedia.
Probrooks ( talk) 08:48, 7 October 2016 (UTC)
Probrooks ( talk) 01:28, 8 October 2016 (UTC)
This comprehensive study of an unexplained apparent dermopathy demonstrated no infectious cause and no evidence of an environmental link. There was no indication that it would be helpful to perform additional testing for infectious diseases as a potential cause. Future efforts should focus on helping patients reduce their symptoms through careful attention to treatment of co-existing medical, including psychiatric conditions, that might be contributing to their symptoms.
Some group of authors keep changing caption to the satellite image in the article presented by Russian MoD making it nonneutral and biased [49] [50] [51] [52] [53] ignoring reliable sources. Before I posted a message here I conscientiously called those authors on the article talk page to follow WP:NPOV [54] [55] [56] [57]. Other conserned WP authors should pay attention to this in order to work out the overall consensus. Discussion is here: Talk:Malaysia Airlines Flight 17#Should this image be added to the article?-- Александр Мотин ( talk) 15:26, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
Randomly came across this article and I believe it's a POV fork of Malia Obama which currently redirects to Family_of_Barack_Obama#Malia_and_Sasha_Obama. K.e.coffman ( talk) 17:48, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
In the articles Serbs and Slavs, any total population figures lower than 12 million are removed. I warned and asked that the editors explain their edit according to WP:REVEXP, but the persistent edit war without edit summaries continue. I take that as silent crypto-nationalist WP:IDONTLIKEIT motivation and vandalism of sourced content, so to report it here. Judist ( talk) 13:33, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
Both our Tipu Sultan and Christianity in India articles (and probably others) include the following:
His skin had darkened to the swarthy complexion of negroes
I'm almost certain his is a quotation from a contemporary (eighteenth century) source, but it is not marked as such. The entire section in which the text is embedded (in both articles) is poorly written and very questionable. More eyes (better eyes than mine) would be good. Hijiri 88 ( 聖 やや) 22:35, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
Our James Scurry article marks "complexion of negroes" as a quotation from the guy's memoirs, meaning that the other two articles that don't are probably engaged in OR based on very old, biased, dubious primary sources. Hijiri 88 ( 聖 やや) 22:40, 19 October 2016 (UTC)
The lead for the Hamas article currently includes this material: "Hamas, its military wing, together with several charities it runs, has been designated by Israel, the United States, Canada, the European Union, Jordan, and Japan as a terrorist organization. Others regard this classification as problematic, simplistic or reductive.[49][50][51][52][53]" However the "others" being referred to are cherry-picked academics found in Google Books. Given that the entirety of the paragraph (minus this exception) is focused on international positions, the inclusion of this remark misleadingly makes it seem as if these "others" were other countries, and this random "counterpoint" is non-neutral. There can be a separate section for academic views of Hamas. Drsmoo ( talk) 16:06, 10 October 2016 (UTC)
Hamas, its military wing, together with several charities it runs, has been designated as a terrorist organization by Israel, the United States, Canada, the European Union, and Japan. Hamas has been outlawed in Jordan [1] Others regard this designation as problematic or simplistic. [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] Israel outlawed Hamas in 1989, followed by the United States in 1996 and Canada in 2002. The European Union defined Hamas's military wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades as a terrorist organization in 2001, and put Hamas in its list of terrorist organizations in 2003, but such designation was successfully challenged by Hamas in the courts in 2014 on technical grounds. The judgment was appealed. In 2016 an EU legal advisor recommended that Hamas be removed from the list due to procedural errors. The final decision is not thought likely to effect individual government lists. [7] [8] An Egyptian court ruled Hamas was a terrorist organization in 2015. Japan froze Hamas assets according to its legislation on terrorist entities in 2006. Australia and the United Kingdom have designated the military wing of Hamas as a terrorist organization. The organization is also banned in Jordan. It is not regarded as a terrorist organization by Iran, Russia, Norway, Switzerland, Turkey, China, and Brazil.
References
In 1999, King Abdullah of Jordan outlawed Hamas after accusing it of breaking a deal to restrict its activities to politics.
Hamas has been designated a terrorist organization by Israel, the United States, the EU, Japan, Egypt and Canada. It is banned in Jordan.It is not regarded as a terrorist organization by Iran, Russia, Norway, Switzerland, Turkey, China, and Brazil. Many analysts view the designation as problematic, and Hamas successfully challenged in a court of law the EU classification in 2014.
Hamas, its military wing, together with several charities it runs, has been designated as a terrorist organization by Israel (1989), the United States (1996), Canada (2002), the European Union (2001/2003), Japan (2006) Egypt (2015), and was outlawed in Jordan (1999). It is not regarded as a terrorist organization by Iran, Russia, Norway, Switzerland, Turkey, China, and Brazil. Hamas appealed the EU blacklisting in 2008, and the European court found the earlier determination flawed. (2014). The European Council appealed the decision, and in 2016 its Advocate General advised that due to procedural errors, it should be dropped from the terror blacklist, unless proper and sufficient legal evidence to warrant its inclusion were forthcoming. Analysts have disputed the designation.
Hold on, Masem's suggestion in this comment here states that there is, in fact, a way of presenting academic debate on Hamas' designation without confusing academic and governmental designations. Nishidani's proposal above is consistent with Masem's suggestion, though I believe the text could be shortened.
Drsmoo, with no offense intended, your statement about apples and oranges appears confused and confusing. There is no universe in which published academic viewpoints are irrelevant to a wikipedia article: they are the bread and butter of reliable and neutral content. - Darouet ( talk) 20:39, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
UTC)
References
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cite book}}
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It has been noted that “(o)ne problem Israel has in common with other democracies is that it focuses narrowly on its foes’ use of terrorism and ignores the wider strategies. While most groups Israel faces, such as Hezbollah and Hamas, have carried out terrorist acts against civilians, they are also broader social and governing organizations. As a result, it is suggested Israel needs to take lessons from counterinsurgency “which addresses not only the military (or “kinetic” in American soldier parlance) dimensions but also the political, economic, and social ones as well.’ P.112
(Discussion continues below after the list of references.)
References
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: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
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References
Drsmoo ( talk) 05:23, 16 October 2016 (UTC)Hamas, its military wing, together with several charities it runs, has been designated as a terrorist organization by Israel (1989), the United States (1996), Canada (2002), the European Union (2001/2003), Japan (2006) Egypt (2015), and was outlawed in Jordan (1999). It is not regarded as a terrorist organization by Iran, Russia, Norway, Switzerland, Turkey, China, and Brazil. Hamas appealed the EU blacklisting in 2008, and the European court found the earlier determination flawed. (2014). The European Council appealed the decision, and in 2016 its Advocate General advised that due to procedural errors, it should be dropped from the terror blacklist, unless proper and sufficient legal evidence to warrant its inclusion were forthcoming. It is a point of debate in political and academic circles over whether or not to classify Hamas as a terrorist group."
Hamas has been designated a terrorist organization by Israel, the United States, the EU, Japan, Egypt and Canada. It is banned in Jordan.It is not regarded as a terrorist organization by Iran, Russia, Norway, Switzerland, Turkey, China, and Brazil. Many analysts view the designation as problematic, and Hamas successfully challenged in a court of law the EU classification in 2014.
(A=Nihshidani)Hamas, its military wing, together with several charities it runs, has been designated as a terrorist organization by Israel (1989), the United States (1996), Canada (2002), the European Union (2001/2003), Japan (2006) Egypt (2015), and was outlawed in Jordan (1999). It is not regarded as a terrorist organization by Iran, Russia, Norway, Switzerland, Turkey, China, and Brazil. Hamas appealed the EU blacklisting in 2008, and the European court found the earlier determination flawed. (2014). The European Council appealed the decision, and in 2016 its Advocate General advised that due to procedural errors, it should be dropped from the terror blacklist, unless proper and sufficient legal evidence to warrant its inclusion were forthcoming. Analysts have disputed the designation.
(B=Drsmoo) Hamas, its military wing, together with several charities it runs, has been designated as a terrorist organization by Israel (1989), the United States (1996), Canada (2002), the European Union (2001/2003), Japan (2006) Egypt (2015), and was outlawed in Jordan (1999). It is not regarded as a terrorist organization by Iran, Russia, Norway, Switzerland, Turkey, China, and Brazil. Hamas appealed the EU blacklisting in 2008, and the European court found the earlier determination flawed. (2014). The European Council appealed the decision, and in 2016 its Advocate General advised that due to procedural errors, it should be dropped from the terror blacklist, unless proper and sufficient legal evidence to warrant its inclusion were forthcoming. It is a point of debate in political and academic circles over whether or not to classify Hamas as a terrorist group.
(C= Masem's précis) Hamas is considered a terrorist organization by (list), while (second list) have stated the group is not a terrorist organization, and Hamas has recently disputed the EU's classification as such in 2014. Whether or not to designate Hamas as as a terrorist organization is a point of debate by many political and academic analysts.
Hamas, its military wing, together with several charities it runs, has been designated as a terrorist organization by Israel (1989), the United States (1996), Canada (2002), the European Union (2001/2003), Japan (2006) Egypt (2015), and was outlawed in Jordan (1999). The EU decision is currently under appeal. It is not regarded as a terrorist organization by Iran, Russia, Norway, Switzerland, Turkey, China, and Brazil. It is a point of debate in political and academic circles over whether or not to classify Hamas as a terrorist group. Drsmoo ( talk) 21:36, 18 October 2016 (UTC)