Trakai Voivodeship is a historical, geographical entity (it existed from 1413-1795, first in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, and after Union of Lublin 1569 still in the Grand Duchy in the federal state of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth as one of the voivodeships of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth). Unfortunately there are no clearly established name in the English literature for the terms related to the administrative division of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth; voivodeships are sometimes reffered to as palatinates or provinces, and geographical names like Trakai are referred to in spellings of various nations once controlling the territory). There are very few English language sources making reference to this entity (a discussion long ago at WikiProject History and Geography of Poland has concluded that voivodeship is the proffered term to palatinate or province, and this has not been challenged). Trakai is a Lithuanian name (the city of Trakai is currently in Lithuania), and Troki is a Polish name variant of the city. Lithuanian was not an official language in the Commonwealth; Polish was (see Polish-Lithuanian_Commonwealth#Languages_of_the_Commonwealth); the historical name in official language of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth - Polish - was województwo trockie). It is likely that the province has been referred to in Ruthenian language (as before the 1697 the official language of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was the Ruthenian language, albeit Polish was increasingly used due to polonization after Union of Lublin in 1569).
A recent discussion and vote about renaming Trakai Voivodeship (not a single source has been found to support this name) to a slightly better referenced Troki Voivodeship (supported by three references in English, all three however written by Polish authors publishing in Engish) has generated a stalemate on talk (with voters relatively clearly divided among national lines). Lithuanian editors prefer Trakai despite no English source supporting this name, Polish editors support Polish name, and the discussion is dominated by the "Poles vs Lithuanians" attitude. The stalemate, if continued, will result in keeping the ORish name Trakai Voivodeship. No side has suggested using the Ruthenian spelling (personally I am not even sure what it would be, and I've found no reference to it in the sources I've read). Input and mediation by neutral editors, who would attempt to mediate between Polish and Lithuanian editors, is requested.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 20:07, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
User:DSuran has been attempting to edit the IPKF article to try to portray it as a predominantly "Sikh" Force, and/or as a sperate entity from the rest of the "Indian" forces in the IPKF, subsequently labeling the Sikh units as Special Forces, and has deleted the Hindi script from the article lead and ifobox. All his edits are factually blatantly wrong, and smacks of Sikh Nationalism, and is moreover very PoV. Can somebody please have a look since I am do not wish to deal with this if I introduce my own biases. rueben_lys ( talk · contribs) 11:44, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
The issue in my opinion is not anything to do with Sri Lanka at all. It is more to do with views on Sikh/Punjabi contribution to the Indian forces etc and can be pushed on to "righting historical wrongs". Have a look at Dsuran's earlier edits. I wrote half the page (if not more) on the IPKF, and the references listed in the bottom are mostly journal articles or reliable websources on the Indian military. DSuran, on the other hand, has only ever edited or made unreferenced edits making generalising and factually wrong content that attempted to portray the IPKF as a "Sikh force", or the Sikh Light Infantry as a force seperate from the Indian Army, and now that it is a "Special Force". His last edit was inclusion of Punjabi text to the name for IPKF (which I think is to redress the seeming bias of having hindi text there).The bias I hope will be self-evident. Also see IPKF history for a previous edit conflict with DSuran to see what I am saying. rueben_lys ( talk · contribs) 16:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Content Problem:
The anti-Americanism article labels people as anti-American who don't accept that label for themselves. Typically, it does this to people of cultures who aren't equally represented on Wikipedia. It has a section that consists almost entirely of calling people of other cultures anti-American. There is no way there would be a consensus on any of the
"Regional Attitudes" section if the people being labeled in those sections were equally represented hereon the English Wikipedia. The article labels these cultures explicitly, and also implicitly by discussing aspects of the cultures in the context of anti-Americanism. It also gives undue (exclusive) weight to the position that the term "anti-Americanism" depicts prejudice in a meaningful way; the article itself says the term may be propaganda. At times, it reads like a laundry list of what anybody has ever called anti-American. Examples:
European anti-Americanism well predates the invasion of Iraq and the Bush Administration, with criticisms of American "hegemonism", the coining of the term "hyperpuissance", and the dream of making the EU a "counterbalance" to the United States all flaring up in the '90s. The usual criticisms were also levied, that America was enforcing sanctions against Iraq for oil, and attributing sinister motives to the bombing of the Chinese embassy in Serbia.[53] French anti-americanism predates the founding of the United States with the belief that it was a barbaric land and all who went there also degenerated.[54]
The Middle East region has been a focal point of much anti-American sentiment in the latter decades of the 20th century and the beginning of the 21st, often blamed on specific U.S. policies in the region, particularly its close relationship with Israel and its stance on such matters as Sudan's civil war and Darfur. However, some argue that the real roots lay in government policy as reflected in state-directed media. By this reasoning, America is blamed for failed systems in the Middle East, as a means of re-directing internal dissent outwards, towards what Osama Bin Ladin has called "the far enemy", America, instead of at indigenous regimes.
(Note: the above paragraph is entirely unsourced.)
Cultural anti-Americanism in the Middle East may have its origins with Sayyid Qutb, an influential Egyptian author, who Paul Berman titled "the Philosopher of Islamic Terror".[59] Qutb, the leading intellectual of the Muslim Brotherhood, studied in Greely, Colorado, from 1948-50, and wrote a book, The America I Have Seen based on his impressions. In it he decried everything in American from individual freedom and taste in music to Church socials and haircuts,[60].
(The above leads to an enormous quote from Qutb, followed by more extensive quoting of Paul Hollander explaining how this shows all Middle Easterners are anti-American)
In Latin America, anti-American sentiment has deep roots dating back to the 1830s and the Texas Revolution.[69]Other significant 19th century events which led to a rise in anti-American sentiment were the 1846-1848 Mexican-American War, in which Mexico lost almost half of its territory to the US, the 1855 American intervention in Nicaragua and the Spanish-American War of 1898 - which turned Cuba into a virtual dependency of the United States.[70][71][72]Perceived racist attitudes of the white Anglo-Saxon Protestants of the north towards the populations of South America also caused resentment.[73]In the twentieth century American support for the 1954 coup in Guatemala against Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán, the United States embargo against Cuba, the 1964 Brazilian coup d'état, Operation Condor, the 1973 Chilean coup d'état, the Salvadoran Civil War, the support of the Contras and the refusal to extradite a terrorist, continued to fuel anti-Americanism in the region.[74][75][76]Similarly, U.S. support for dictators such as Augusto Pinochet, Anastasio Somoza, Alfredo Stroessner has influenced regional attitudes.[77]Fidel Castro the revolutionary leader of Cuba has throughout his career tried to co-ordinate long standing South American resentments against the USA through military and propagandist means.[78][79]
Solution: "Anti-American" tends to be a negative term applied by outsiders to others. It suggests prejudice. Furthermore, it tends to be applied by one culture (Americans and their allies) to other cultures (French, Middle Easterners, etc.). As such, it is not neutral for Wikipedia to state or imply what is anti-American and what is not. The term itself has a strong connection to propaganda, as the article itself suggests. So, the article should not consist of a long list of what people have called anti-American (sourced or not). That runs the risk of promoting the propaganda. The mere idea of a "Region Attitudes" section carries the implication that it is appropriate for Wikipedia to be telling readers which cultures are anti-American and which are not. Since the article violates neutrality blatantly, and since there is undue weight problem as well as many particular violations, I think the best approach is to shorten the article. The most potentially neutral part is the discussion of the way the term is used; the rest should be dramatically shortened and/or brought into balance.
Behavior Problem: The other two editors disagree with this analysis and refuse to discuss it. They have disrupted informal mediation, refused formal mediation, refused a truce, argued against arbitration, and explicitly stated an intention not to discuss any of these problems with me. Right now, it's a slow-moving edit war. Life.temp ( talk) 12:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Life.temp has been blocked indefinitely by David Gerard as a returning sockpuppet of an indefinitely blocked editor. Durova Charge! 19:29, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
The Persian Gulf, in the Southwest Asian region, is an extension of the Indian Ocean located between Iran and the Arabian Peninsula. It is the most commonly referred-to name by most nation-states and NGO and has been for quite some time. However, an alternative name, Arabian Gulf has also ben present for an equally long time and is in use today by citizens of many Arab nations. This has lef to significant conflict in the RW, as noted by the wiki-article, Persian Gulf naming dispute.
A vehement discussion regarding the inclusion (not replacement) of the alternative name in the Lead has been ongoing and unproductive. Edit-warring has resulted in blocks and warnings, resulting in the article being dispute-locked since March of this year. The locking admin advised that once a consensus was reached, to contact him regarding the unlocking of the article. To date, no one has, as there is no consensus for the addition of the alternative name. MedCab was enlisted to help negotiate a compromise and break the stalemate, without success. The case has been silent since May 8. The proposed working solution:
- The Persian Gulf, in the Southwest Asian region, is an extension of the Arabian Sea located between Iran and the Arabian Peninsula. It is sometimes controversially referred to as the Arabian Gulf by Arab countries or The Gulf, although neither terms are recognized internationally.}}
had not met with any amount of success, though endorsed by both the mediator and the some of the parties.
The dispute is mostly factionalized along cultural and ethnic lines. Editors with a leaning towards excluding the Arabian Gulf alternative name usually tend to be either anti-Arabian or pro-Persian. Editors opting for inclusion are mostly either pro-Arab or anti-Iranian. There is also a small group of editors who are apolitical and still support the inclusion of the alternative name. -
Arcayne
(cast a spell) 19:02, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
- The Persian Gulf, in the Southwest Asian region, is an extension of the Indian Ocean located between Iran and the Arabian Peninsula. It is sometimes controversially referred to as the Arabian Gulf or The Gulf, although neither terms are recognized internationally.
I suggest to move the discussion to the talk page of the article and unless reasonable oposing arguments are found made a pretected edit Alex Bakharev ( talk) 02:50, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
“ | The Persian Gulf, in the Southwest Asian region, is an extension of the Gulf of Oman located between Iran and the Arabian Peninsula. Historically and commonly known as the Persian Gulf, this body of water, for political reasons, is sometimes controversially referred to as the Arabian Gulf by Arab countries or The Gulf, although neither terms are recognized internationally or commonly used in English. | ” |
I have implemented a slightly modified version of the working solution, and unprotected the page. Further discussion can go at Talk:Persian Gulf#Unprotected - compromise. Khoi khoi 05:52, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
The article on Sambalpuri/Kosali, a region in the Orissa state of India, could benefit from a few more neutral eyes. It seems to be the product of a single editor and efforts to improve the English and make the article more encyclopedic are met with wholesale reverts. Every part of the article could use attention, starting with the title. The follow links suggest the primary editor’s motivations: here and here. Aramgar ( talk) 16:56, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
I would appreciate some tips how to deal with that problem. Some users (including me) reverted edits like this one as it appeared to be vandalism, and now disputes flared up like the one mentioned above and User_talk:Jons63/Archive_1#Byzantium (already archieved). I would be grateful for your opinions, → Christian .И 13:40, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
I've got a question about the
Romanian diaspora article - see also the recent
edit history. What exactly defines a diaspora? Specifically, with regard to Ukraine, here is the situation. In the 2001 census there, 150,989 declared as Romanian and 258,619 as Moldovan. However, Romanian sources consider both (self-declared Romanians and self-declared Moldovans) to be Romanians. Examples:
[7] ("Over 400,000 Romanians live in Ukraine.")
[8] ("According to the 2002 census, the Romanian minority in Ukraine numbers 410,000 members.")
[9] ("Over 400,000 ethnic Romanians live in Ukraine according to the 2001 census.")
I'm being stopped from making a note of that, but why not? Sure, they call themselves Moldovans, and we should say that, but Romanians see no difference between the two groups. Surely some solution (a footnote?) can be found.
Biruitorul
Talk 00:15, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Hello. The user HP1740-B denies the existence of a Flemish ethnicity and states that Flemish people are of Dutch ethnicity. He removed all content from Flemish (linguistics) with the edit summary "what it should be", and he's always reverting to his version of Dutch (ethnic group) and Flemish people. I can't find any information stating that a Flemish ethnicity doesn't exist. He always arguments that he has sources (two books; I'm not going to buy a book to see what they say). SPQRobin ( talk) 19:11, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Multiple pro-Palestine editors are working in a coordinated manner to squash this merger. User:Pedrito has even gone as far as to label attempts to merge material into the target article as "slurring Palestinians". I have placed a warning on his page that this is not useful as we discuss this merge but his friend User:Nickhh has stepped up to support him in his tendentious behavior. He is also trying to circumvent local discussion by shopping his opinion on other noticeboards then suggesting that involved editors should not have a say in the discussion at RSN. I'm trying to do my best but when faced with suggestions of racism, it is really difficult to work with these folks. The relevant talk page is: [10] Kyaa the Catlord ( talk) 13:55, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
The Taxila article presently has a pro-pakistani annon editor (several actualy) constantly changing "Ancient India, modern Pakistan" to just "Ancient Pakistan". The editor also removes india from several other spots ont he pages, tags, categories. Several editors have reverted but the perticular editor has the tendency to leave derogitory comments on anyone talk page accusing them of being "islamaphobic and pro western". If someone can assist with this content dispute. Knowledgeum ( talk) 15:42, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Bastianich is an Istrian-born American chef who specializes in Italian cuisine and publicly identifies herself as an Italian. A persistent IP editor is disrupting the article to claim that she is Croatian, despite having any sources to back up this claim. The editor has been at it for months, and I'm getting tired of reverting him. I've tried to discuss this on the talk page but still have not seen any sources about her ethnicity. Note that this is the same editor who has left trolling remarks on the talk page, poking fun at the subject's physical appearance [11]. Can someone step in here?-- The Fat Man Who Never Came Back ( talk) 04:01, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Assistance is required regarding the Arabistan Article. As part of an ongoing ethnic dispute between Arabs and Persians, my attempt to create have an article based on facts has been met with opposition which does not seem too interested in constructive discussion. This also extends to the articles of Khuzestan, Iranian Arabs and Racism in the Middle East. I have already been forced to request Wikiquette intervention with regards to one particularly uncivil editor. Editors which have been involved are User:BehnamFarid, User:CreazySuit and possibly User:Farmanesh as well. MiS-Saath ( talk) 05:32, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
03:55, 4 August 2008 (hist) (diff) Arabistan (Undid revision 229650164 by CreazySuit (talk) this is the last time before i turn to DR. this is NOT a POV fork. the talk is active - join it!) 21:03, 3 August 2008 (hist) (diff) Arabistan (Undid revision 229642268 by CreazySuit (talk) rv well sourced article with disucssion. please join discussion before reverting). I don't think that i have to beg them to talk back to me. MiS-Saath ( talk) 08:51, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
I've taken a quick look at the dispute, and although I must admit I don't fully understand the dispute, and I'm not very well-read on the Arab-Persian political conflict in Khuzestan/Arabistan, I think I can offer at least some help.
First of all, Arabistan should stay a disambiguation page, conforming to the normal style for dab pages. The real locus of the dispute is the article Khūzestān Province, and related articles like Politics of Khūzestān Province, Politics of Khūzestān Province, Origin of the name Khuzestan and Iranian Arabs. Even if improper decisions are being made on that article, it is not appropriate to try and sidestep the issue by adding the information to Arabistan. There is only one geographical area at issue here, and it is properly discussed by the page Khūzestān Province (which is properly named by WP:NAME policy, as it is the official name of the area, and the most common name in English-language sources.) The argument that the page Arabistan should be a page for the word "Arabistan" is a non-starter.
However, there appears to be a very unhealthy atmosphere on the article Khuzestan Province, which may have contributed to the problem of POV forking. All editors must accept that relevant information which is cited to reliable sources cannot be removed simply on the basis that it is false or "propaganda." Edits like this and [12] are not acceptable. User:BehnamFarid appears to be show classic signs of a nationalist problem editor; see User_talk:MiS-Saath#On_the_Khuzestan_Province.
In the broader coverage of Khuzestan/Arabistan across Wikipedia, there seem to be possible issues of neutrality, WP:UNDUE weight, and the avoidance of WP:ORiginal research, including synthesis of sources to advance a position. For example, Origin of the name Khuzestan appears designed to advance the position that Khuzestan is the original, correct name, and Arabistan the new, usurping name. Regardless of whether this is an accurate assessment, we need actual academic sources that say this, not a collection of ancient documents which are claimed to prove this. The interpretation of ancient primary sources is well beyond the remit of Wikipedia editors. There is too much room for error or selectivity, and virtually no editors have the ability to check these sources and WP:Verify the claim. We can only pass on what scholars and academics - ie, secondary sources - have said on the subject. If they have said nothing about the subject, we cannot write any article at all.
Editors must also accept that Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, U.S. State Department reports, and reports from United Nations agencies are considered top-grade sources. When they raise concerns about human rights in Khuzestan, they certainly can be cited, and they should be given proportionally large weight. This is not to say that criticism or counter-claims should be ommitted, but I am very concerned to see paragraphs like this:
Contrary to the arguments put forward by human rights groups, Arabic is taught in all public schools throughout the country [13] as a mandatory subject. This despite the fact that 97%-98% of Iranians are not ethnically Arabic speakers. [14]
This is a straightforward original synthesis of sources; two sources which have nothing to do with human rights groups' statements on Iran are being used to "disprove" their statements. If officials of the Iranian government - or any reliable sources - have refuted the claims of human rights groups, both sets of claims should be cited, and framed as a dispute between two groups.
For another example, the demographic composition of Khuzestan is not given anywhere in its article. It is briefly mentioned that the Iranian government does not take censuses there, in the context of an unrelated discussion. However, I find several strong human rights sources placing the Arab population in a clear majority - something like 70%. These estimates should be cited, and not buried in sub-sections either. Even if the demographics of Khuzestan were not a key issue of contention, articles on national sub-divisions generally have a top-level "demographics" section anyway. Such a section should probably exist in this article. Again, if Iran disputes the demographic estimates, their figures should certainly be cited as well.
Again, I don't fully understand either the on-Wiki or the off-Wiki conflict, and nobody should take my statement here as an endorsement of a particular position. However, Wikipedia's content policies are important and should be understood and followed. < eleland/ talk edits> 18:03, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- The amount of material i've written on wikipedia with relation to iranian subjects is also totally irrelevant. i could be an iranologist, or i could be the village idiot, it doesn't matter - As long as my writing adheres to the rules of wikipedia, in particular with regards to important guidelines in areas of friction such as WP:V and WP:RS, is to stand by itself detached from whoever wrote it. [...] I would be willing to concede if you give me a reasonable historical authority which rejects the existence of such an emirate in the early 20's. I will of course re-insert this information as a debated fact if i manage to find a serious historical authority which asserts the existence of this entity.
- Regarding foreign investments, while Millspaugh and the Iranian government were eager to attract American capital, Great Britain, still the most influential power, was hostile to inroads by others. [...]
- Millspaugh tried to prevent Russo-Iranian agreement on the Caspian fisheries and on tariffs, though his claims on these points went against the 1921 Russian-Iranian Treaty. No agreement on these issues was reached while Millspaugh was present, and Russio-Iranian trade suffered. Millspaugh's failures made him increasingly unpopular, and disagreements with Reza Shah led to Millspaugh's resignation in 1927.
- The British, rebuffed in their attempt to control all Iran, continued to try in the south. They took four years to evacuate their troops there, and considered plans for an autonomous state, including Khuzestan, the main oil province. These plans centred on Shaikh Khaz'al, the powerful Arab tribal chief. The British negotiated with Khaz'al and promised support against the central government. At the end of 1923, Khaz'al formed a group aiming at an independent south Iranian federation and got some Bakhtiari and Luri [both non-Arab] groups to follow him. The government put down the Lurs, but Khaz'al and his allies declared independence. The central government was now too strong for the rebels, however, and Khaz'al was met with the army and forced to surrender in 1924. Soon after this, Reza Khan negotiated with the British, who saw it was in their interest to come to terms with the newly powerful regime. The British henceforth supported Reza Khan. [My italics.]
- With due respect MiS-Saath, you seem nothing else to do in your life but to request arbitrations. Someone with your language skills, your impeccable command of the English language, should not have difficulty finding a gainful occupation in, for instance, some advertising company. Or, am I missing something? Please kindly leave me in peace, and it has not been a pleasure meeting you. --BF 15:44, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
(outdent) Okay, first of all, I'd like to suggest that all editors make a conscious effort to dial back their rhetoric, and to keep things WP:CIVil. Frankly, comments in this matter have long since passed te point where administrators who read them will probably issue blocks. I'd advise that any editors who may have, for example, insinuated that other editors are Jewish disinormation agents should withdraw such comments immediately.
Now to discuss two content issues. First:
Amnesty International writes, "Prior to 1925, although nominally part of Iranian territory, the area functioned for many years effectively as an autonomous emirate known as Arabistan, until Reza Khan reimposed central control by military force. Its name was changed to Khuzestan in 1936." This information was added to the article Khuzestan Province in an appropriate location. In fact, the version without this paragraph leaves a puzzling gap - it states that the area was Arabized and was under the protection of an Arab sheikh, then it jumps ahead to 1980, with Iran defending Khuzestan against Iraq.
Amnesty is a reliable source, and other reliable sources have much the same information. British policy in Persia, 1918-1925, by Houshang Sabahi, pub Routledge discusses the issue in great detail, and confirms the Amnesty account. http://www.american.edu/ted/ice/khuzestan.htm has the same information. But, as is evident from this page and from User talk:MiS-Saath#On the Khuzestan Province, B.F. does not seem to be actually disputing the information itself - rather, he seems to be disputing the moral and political legitimacy of the emirate, and arguing that since the Sheikh was an unlawful rebel, the fact that his emirate was effectively autonomous should be removed.
This type of behavior is what I refer to as a classic sign of a nationalist problem editor, and I am afraid that given the facts I cannot withdraw that remark. Objecting to a straightforward description of history because you personally condemn the historical figure in question is, to be blunt, inane. Mentioning that an autonomous emirate existed is in no way an endorsement of that emirate, or of its leaders. This is obvious.
Second. User:Nepaheshgar objects to several pieces of information on grounds which are clearly indefensible by Wikipedia policy, and in some cases seem to be logically fallacious.
In summary, there appears to be something of a "hornet's nest" atmosphere on these pages, which no doubt explains some of the evident lapses and ommissions. Editors need to realize that this is a global encyclopedia and has a global perspective. It may at times include information which is troubling or offensive to certain nationalist narriatives. While it is sincerely not our intention to offend individuals, Wikipedia is not censored. < eleland/ talk edits> 02:37, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Solving the naming dispute on Many Greek Town's with a large Slavic speaking population (regardless of ethnicity) which are situated in Central or West Macedonia. What language is usable? Macedonian, Macedonian Slavic, Slavic, Local Slavic, Nothing, Bulgarian, South Slavic even?
*NOTE: This post concerns the Slavic language spoken in Western and Central Greek Macedonia (which is considered as Macedonian or Macedonian slavic), not East Macedonia which is Sometimes considered Bulgarian'
For hundreds of year the Whole region known as Macedonia was part of the Ottoman Empire. When the empire disintegrated many new Balkan States took control of Areas previously controlled by the Ottomans. Most of the Slavic populaiton of Macedonia was considered either Bulgarian or Slav Macedonian, they were the majority population in Macedonia but many large minorities existed (Greeks, Turks, Roma, Aromanians, Albanians). The Greek army took control of the area today known as Greek or Aegean Macedonia after the first Balkan War. They consolidated their rule after World War One. (This is where the Politics Start :) ).
After World War One Many people Bulgarian's left Greek Macedonia and Thrace for Bulgaria as part of population exchanges (in Greece they are referred to as Slavophone Greeks or simply Slavophones), this mainly affected people living in Eastern Macedonia and Thrace, an estimated 50,000 - 70,000 left Greece. Before World War One, Slavs were the majority population in Greek Macedonia while Greeks constituted a Minority. Yet during the years 1913-1926 major demographics changes would take place. Hundreds of thousands of Greeks were resettled from Black Sea, after 1926 Greeks made up the Majority population in greek Macedonia. They are often called Prosfiges or Refugees, while the original Slavic Inhabitants are often refered in greek as Dopii or locals. [27] Although a language primer ( Abecedar) was printed in the local Slavic Dialect (which is now considered Macedonian by most non-Greek linguists) the general policy in the inter-war period was the restriction of the Macedonian language at all levels of society. The use of the Macedonian language was forbidden and people were forced to attend night school. [28] Toponyms and Personal Names were changed from the local slavic to the Greek version, ie. Lerin → Florina, Ovčarani → Meliti. (Note: Greeks refer to the local slavic dialects as a "local idiom with a mixture of Greek, Turkish, Slavonic and Vlach influences)
During the Second World War many Slav Macedonians joined the KKE, soon the Slavic-Macedonian National Liberation Front (SNOF) was established. The Macedonian language was freely taught in Greece, and many macedonian langauge newspapers, schools, theatres and other establishments flourished. The language which was taught was the same language as the language in the Socialist Republic of Macedonia or the Macedonian language. [29] SNOF soon developed into the National Liberation Front (Macedonia), an ethnic macedonian dominated organisation fighting for the Communists. Many of the Slav's who previously identified as Bulgarians began to identify as Slav Macedonians. [30] But the KKE was defeated and tens of thousands of Ethnic Macedonians fled Greece, today they are known as Aegean Macedonians. The 1951 census recorded c.41,000 speakers of Slavic, although this is widely considered a undercount. By 1959 language oaths were introduced in greek villages whereby the villagers claimed to renounce their slavic dialect and speak only Greek. [31] Depite this Slav speakers (regardless of ethnic identity) still made up a large proportion in Florina, Kastoria, Eddessa and the surrounding areas. [32] An estimated 65% of the Florina Prefecture considered themselves Dopii or Locals ( a term synonymous with Slavophone Greeks). An Ethnic Macedonian political party was founded in Florina in the 1990's, it has had most support in that Prefecture with the election of a member to the post of prefecture counselor. Today the estimated number of Slav's (regardless of ethnicity) is between 50,000 to 200,000. [33], [34], [35]. (Note: The Macedonian language is often refered to by scholars as "Macedonian Slavic" or "Slav Macedonian" when the language is in Greece)
Greek POV
Only a few thousands elderly bilinguals speak a local idiom in the border reagions with FYROM. The idiom is a mixture of Slavonic (mainly bulgarian), Greek, Vlach, Albanian and Turkish. The slavic language should not be confused or indentified with the "Makedonski" (Macedonian) spoken in FYROM. Consequently the language used in FYROM although related should not be identified with the idiom spoken in some regions of Greek Macedonia. [36] There is no Slav Macedonian minority in Greece.
Ethnic Macedonian POV
The [slavic] dialects spoken in Greek Macedonia form many of the dialects of the Macedonian language. The macedonian language is widely spoken throughout Greek Macedonia. Some Macedonian activists assert that there is over 1 million Ethnic Macedonians in Greece. [37]
Linguist's Opinions
Peter Trudgill : Greek non-linguists, when they acknowledge the existence of these dialects at all, frequently refer to them by the label Slavika, which has the implication of denying that they have any connection with the languages of the neighboring countries. It seems most sensible, in fact, to refer to the language of the Pomaks as Bulgarian and to that of the Christian Slavonic-speakers in Greek Macedonia as Macedonian. [1]
Roland Schmieger: Apart from certain peripheral areas in the far east of Greek Macedonia, which in our opinion must be considered as part of the Bulgarian linguistic area (the region around Kavala and in the Rhodope Mountains, as well as the eastern part of Drama nomos), the dialects of the Slav minority in Greece belong to Macedonia diasystem. [2]
Most Linguists agree that the Slavic Language spoken in West Macedonian (eg. the Florina/Kastoria region) and Central Macedonia (Pella, Kilkis, Imathia) is Macedonian.
To put it simply. Most Macedonian editors claim that the language spoken in West and Central Macedonia is Macedonian, this veiw is shared by most linguists and scholars although many of them use the term "Macedonian Slavic". Greek users claim it is not Macedonian, but rather Slavic (which even states that the language spoken in Florina is Macedonian} or remove any name other than the Official Greek Name. There have been many revert wars over towns like Florina and Kastoria. I Would like to achieve a wiki-protocol which can be applied on most Wikipedia pages. Input by Neutral Mediators and Administrators would be appreciated in order to achieve a decision on wikipedia, and to mediate between the Macedonian and Greek users.
PS. I have tried to make the intro as neutral as possible. PMK1 ( talk) 08:56, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Skopje has a huge Albanian population do we really need the name of the city in Albanian? At least we do not have to make linguistic research to determine which language they speak. The same goes for Spanish in Los Angeles, Chinese in Kuala Lumpur, Idish in Vitebsk, etc. Usually we provide non-English names of a city in the lead of a city's article if either it is an official language in the city, it was an official language for hundreds years. We do not provide additional names because of minorities living there, it is especially true if the very existence and identity of the minority is disputed. Alex Bakharev ( talk) 09:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
You know, we can just scrap other languages in leads altogether for the Balkans. As this entire episode has shown, it leads nowhere. Balkan Fever 10:34, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
We have the problem that until fairly recently Macedonian (now the official language of the FRYROM) was itself regarded as a dialect of Bulgarian, and the languages are very close. Going by some comments earlier, it may well be the case that in most parts of northern Greece, where a local Slavic dialect is spoken, it is closer to Macedonian than Bulgarian, but there are some areas in the far east of the country where the reverse is true, and it would to some extent be artificial to draw a clear line on the map of Greece. "Slavic" is the least problematic term, nobody disputes that Bulgarian and Macedonian are Slavic. PatGallacher ( talk) 20:00, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
See Slavic dialects of Greece. PatGallacher ( talk) 20:11, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
2008 South Ossetia War is an ongoing conflict between Georgia, Russia, and multiple ethnic groups within the area.
The article has been fighting between those attempting to keep it unbiased and those with a definitely Russian one. For a list of people that have been caught up in this you can go to the 3R section and other places where "edit wars" become visible. Today I opened the page again to see Russian quotes filling the introduction and the only Georgian quote had been erased. This article has become heavily biased.
I am requesting more protection for those that have been attempting to counter the Russian bias. The abilities of the people supporting the Russian bias seem pretty good. And, I as a supporter of the unbiased positions do not have the skill to continue. Thank you for any help. And, I am requesting that editors with more knowledge about bias then myself participate. PlanetCeres ( talk) 23:25, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Within the last few minutes it has been looking better. But, since this problem has been ongoing I will leave this up for now. PlanetCeres ( talk) 00:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
I am creating this thread to centralize discussion regarding a nationalist dispute over Azad Kashmir and the alleged POV fork Pakistan occupied Kashmir. I am asking parties to civilly discuss the articles' title & content here. Until a consensus is achieved, both articles will remain under full protection. I will continue to monitor progress here. Thanks, caknuck ° is geared up for football season 05:39, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
UNITED NATIONS
Kashmircloud, what do you mean when you say I "vandalised the summarised intro and removed the obvious location..similar location removal vandalism has not been done by the same user at j and k, aksai chin , northern areas and ajk..why he bullies my edits " do you have evidence for this? I haven't even edited the
Aksai Chin article. Please provide some diffs to back up your claim. All I have done was to redirect the
Pakistan occupied Kashmir article as can be seen
here and
here. After that I just tagged it as being POV and unbalanced and did not actually alter the contents of the article in anyway. I redirected it on these two occasions as it seems pretty clear to me that it is a POV fork and it was I who actually brought the dispute to Caknuck's attention as can be seen
here.
Pahari Sahib 19:51, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
''POK INCLUDES NOT JUST AJK..IT ALSO INCLUDES TRANS KARAKORAM TRACT, GILGIT AND BALTISTAN.. 117.193.33.134 ( talk) 02:28, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
POK is term used exclusively by INDIANS and no other nation of earth pakistan also regards indian administered kashmir as indian occupied kashmir (IOK) if this goes ahead i assure you there will be edit wars for the next decade kashmir cloud is simply stirring up trouble with a heavily pro indian agenda he is indian after all so i propose scrapping POK and the whole article which if you read you can blatantly tell its PRO INDIAN it shows how desperate kashmir cloud is about vandalising. 86.163.154.87 ( talk) 14:49, 31 August 2008 (UTC) +
I must apologize, I had a response for Meco written yesterday, but forgot to press 'save page' before closing the computer. Certainly Kashmir conflict is a better redirect. PoK is not synonymous to Azad Kashmir, as India claims both AJK & FANA as 'PoK'. However, in usage at wikipedia PoK should be used to describe a term applied by Indian govt and Indian media. It should not be used to describe a geographic location. I found several pages linking to the PoK page as if 'PoK' would be a geographic location (see past version of Balti language for example), a pov problem that will take some time to fix. -- Soman ( talk) 07:12, 1 September 2008 (UTC) I think the debate can be summarized in this way: The state of Kashmir and Jammu was divided in 1947, one part under Indian control and one part under Pakistani control. Both governments have lengthy arguments to support their claims to the entire Kashmir/Jammu region, international orgs like UN have simply taken the compromise to see all of the area as disputed. On the Indian-controlled side, a state called Jammu and Kashmir was formed. India claims all of the old princely state as part of its J&K state. Pakistani divided its areas of the old Kashmir-Jammu state into two (as well as trading off some areas to China) Azad Jammu & kashmir and FANA. I'm not sure if Pakistani govt conisders all of the Indian-controlled areas as parts of AJK, but I'd suppose so. Now, the issue is how to deal with this issue. The current option is that we use the formal names for administrations used by the two states; Jammu and Kashmir for the Indian state and Azad Kashmir for the Pakistani administration. Some Indian editors dislike the usage of the name 'Azad Kashmir', since it literally means 'Free Kashmir' (implying that the areas under Indian control would not be 'free'). However, Azad Kashmir (or more correctly Azad Jammu & Kashmir) is a formal name of an existing administration. Some editors might not consider the Democratic Republic of Congo as a democratic state, but that doesn't warrant a move. We could have moves to Jammu and Kashmir (Indian state) and Azad Kashmir (Pakistani state), but I don't really see that as an improvement. -- Soman ( talk) 10:02, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
It is totally nonsense to have two seperate articles on one subject such as azad kashmir a blatantly biased article such as "POK" shouldnt even deserve to be a page on wikipedia what makes it worse is that some nationalists such as Shovon,kashmir cloud and GDibyendu always seem to put a redirection to this pathetic page they also frequently put there foot into pakistani articles i.e azad kashmir and create problems i notice a pattern of abuse. The azad kashmir article barely survives a week without indian interference while the Jammu and kashmir article is based totally on the indian veiw unless indians stop creating biased articles such as "POK" and stop pushing there point of veiw by brute force without no consensus in the first place i will continue to correct your wrong doings thats a promise freind 86.153.130.184 ( talk) 10:40, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
if status quo is not preferable (i can't understand why!), then the easiest way would be to bring all three parts of PoK or pakistani administered " erstwhile J and K kingdom" (so called northern areas, so called ajk and the trans karakoram tract) under one banner under a unified single article on POK..stop using word "azad"..do you know that the independendence of kashmir is not even recognised by their own constitution!!! pity!! see references on POK page ..i came to know a lot on the blindness of wikipedians there (present version throws light upon these facts) ..please use "so called azad j&k" instead of "azad" since pakistan and pok itself does not recognise its independence! ..even the supreme court of pakistan pities the lack of rights in pok territories!!! ajk citizens are implicitly inferior to pakistani citizens according to its constitution where in 5 out of 11 members are pakistan puppet appointees..they need to get a single pok voice out of the remaining to push the pok slavery agenda smoothly(this i learnt from azad k page ironically!!) and pakistan punjab rules that disputed area Kashmircloud ( talk) 21:08, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
Clamp downs are necessary when articles such as POKwith only one pont of veiw i.e Indias is given and since the POk page was only made by editors who show a consistent pestering in azad kashmir and northern area articles relating to pakistan its safe to say there BIASED only deletion of the POK page will do 86.162.67.217 ( talk) 12:41, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
I have requested that an admin lift the protection so that the article can be tagged for AFD. I've given reason for this on the talk page, and as soon as the AFD is under way, I believe that process will put an end to this debacle. __ meco ( talk) 12:43, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
you can just look above and see what problems this POK article created by a single editor kashmir cloud who seems to be 117 ip 86.162.67.217 ( talk) 14:13, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
Resolved
I seem to have
reached an understanding with our IP friend. I hope this puts an end to this small issue made big.
S3000
☎ 09:07, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Hi S3000 just wanted to let you know this talk whole discussion was not about me lol its about the very controversial POK page just letting you know as you seem to be confusing it with me 86.156.211.157 ( talk) 18:30, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pakistan occupied Kashmir __ meco ( talk) 18:41, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
A edit disputive erupted at Muzaffarabad, regarding how to mention Indian claims on the region. This poses a question on how to deal with the Indian and Pakistani claims across various articles.
-- Soman ( talk) 11:03, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Why does Pakistan-administered Kashmir (also called Pakistan occupied Kashmir) link somewhere else? Its the same geographic place. all one needs is to add another history/background section. That is blatantly Indian POV, just the same as saying Indian Occupied Kashmir for J&K. Obviously there should be a part in the article saying what it is referred to as in India (not to mention maps of India within India, and, I imagine, Pakisan maps in Pakistan), but within the land itself, within Muzaffarabad it is called Azad Kashmir, so it's officially called that by the people and institutions there. Now trying to mention some fringe minority to get away with this would be like saying J&K shouldn't be so because the "fringe minority" there think it ought not to be. Lihaas ( talk) 18:08, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
Is anyone actually monitoring this? or is it going to be left to fester? As it stands the Pakistan-administered Kashmir article now has a POV lead section, and the Azad Kashmir article is locked, the latter article was stable until August when there appeared to be a campaign to POV push. Thus far the POV has gone through an AFD, due to canvassing the result was to speedy close it and redirect it. The Pakistan-administered Kashmir is introduced with POV, as it is a disputed area the lead section should be similar to the Jammu and Kashmir article - as I tried to do here, I asked for a third opinion and we got this version which I agreed with (NPOV). However this was reverted by one editor and the issue remains unresovlved Pahari Sahib 13:28, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm involved in a long running dispute with little or no end in sight. I'm using the WWII persecution of the Serbs as an umbrella header, because the conflict encompasses many related articles like Magnum Crimen, Miroslav Filipović, and Ljubo Miloš. In addition there are several sock farms involved, and some of the checkuser results can be seen here and here. Editing relations have almost completely broken down, there's pointed incivility, endless arguments, sock and meat-puppet allegations, and slow moving edit wars. I've considered mediation, but with the number of articles affected, number of editors involved, and the continuous socking, I'm not sure it would do any good. I noticed in the "See also" below that Wikiprojects and at least one experiment have been formed to help editors in contentious areas edit productively. I've let the majority of editors involved in the various discussions know that I'm attempting to start a project to help stabilize editing in the affected areas, though I haven't informed them of this thread, as almost inevitably both sides begin accusations that have spanned many noticeboards, talkpages, and user talkpages. Help is not only appreciated, but necessary. A ni Mate 23:18, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Anonymous ip editors persist in removing a short section on the Armenian resistance from the article on the Turkish city of Şebinkarahisar. The section has reliable sources and valid wikilinks ( Shabin-Karahisar Resistance, etc.). I have restored it three times but do not wish to be associated with a protracted and sterile revert war with anonymous nationalists. Would other editors please take a look at the passage to see if it is worth defending? Aramgar ( talk) 00:12, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
It's on the verge of becoming a political WP:CIRCUS. Some uninvolved admin should perhaps move off-topic remarks to the AfD's talk page. VG ☎ 16:24, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
At Talk:Żydokomuna#Prominent_individuals, concerns ethnic/cultural issues related to Polish-Jewish history. Comments appreciated, -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 00:22, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
An anonymous editor with a strong Serbian POV 70.80.93.11 ( talk · contribs) is engaging in an edit war on Šar Mountains. The range is located on the border between Kosovo and Macedonia. His edits consist solely of sterile reverts of "Kosovo" to " Serbia" or insisting on the formulation "Kosovo, Serbia", or some such. Several editors have argued in edit summaries that stating that the mountains are located in Kosovo is sufficient geographical precision for the article and implies nothing about Kosovo’s status as a political entity. Nikola Smolenski ( talk · contribs), whom I believe is unaffiliated with the ip, has made similar changes, while several Albanian editors in recent days have sent the article skating around the namespace via a series of undiscussed moves. The article certainly needs more eyes. Is Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Kosovo relevant here? Aramgar ( talk) 22:57, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
In the article, I have re-edited the religion section, because I thought it was biased and only looks at the point of view of secularism or kemalism of the country, therefore I believe that section does not provide a neutral point of view for the readers on Wikipedia, because nothing is mentioned about the conservatism present in Turkey, for example the rise of Islamist-governments and the headscarf controversy - which is banned, but worn by many. I have then added this information about the culture clash between both of these ideologies, with reliable sources and is an important information which should be available in the article based on the impact of Religion in the country.
Furthermore, I have also added the Kemalist ideology to balance between both of these concepts. But in the article it is reverted by two users: User:Turkish Flame and User:Ayça Leovinus (<Part of the 37 Wikipedia sockpuppets of Shuppiluliuma), their reason mainly given: No Islamist ideology allowed on the article, and only favoring secular information, but I have provided two balanced information for the article section, so I believe these two users are reverting my edits due to based on their own ideologies, but not caring about how information is provided for Wikipedia users, and that is what I have done by editing the section, providing a neutral point of view, but however these users are trying to hide these facts and informations, which I think is not a valid reason to revert my edits. Please review this, Thank you!!! My neutral revision : [38] against this: [39]
Many biased reason's against my edit: There is no place for your islamist agenda in wikipedia..., I know that it tickles your Islamist nerves., The top paragraph entirely for religion, the bottom paragraph entirely for secularism., especially when you are the "dedicated Islamist" of Wikipedia?, You are not making a "summary", you are only removing the parts that you dislike due to your Islamic ideology, Mr. Bangladeshi Islamic fanatic in England, why don't you "get a life" and leave Turkey to the Turks - who definitely know their country much better than you do?, Enough - go see a doctor, You are not making a "summary", you are only removing the parts that you dislike due to your Islamic ideology - Note the word Islamist mentioned in these quotes by User:Ayça Leovinus.
My reason's for edits: I have shortened the section because: the section looks cluttered and unorganized; various info moved to subs; reducing article size (not removed secular), Balancing and adding information (ie Kemalism, political situation), fixing info, now clear according to NPOV, good edit (AGF, NPOV), My revision: shortened sentences, and transferred to related articles, adding few relevant political sit., reducing article size (previous cluttered and unorganized) now), re edited section, added more comprehensive populations of Christians and Jews, and fixed Kemalism, with sources, entry referenced, based on NPOV, balanced of view. Conservate and secular present, not only secular, this should not be hidden., NPOV version: providing info based on two sides of point of views, not only one, but two present in society. Secularism/Kemalism, Conservatism/Headscarf - Note no insults given to users, but giving suitable reasons for the edits.
Mohsin ( talk) 13:13, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
I have re-edited it again for a more neutral perspective: [40] Mohsin ( talk) 14:23, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
The Bishopric was created by William of Modena in 1243 as a German Prince-Bishopric that was secularized in 1772, after the date it continued to exist as not a state any more but just a German Bishopric until 1945 when the lands and the bishopric became part of Poland.
now, the thing is that between 1466-1772 it was also part of Poland and first of all there is a controversy between the German and Polish naming versions Ermland vs. Warmia. The result is that there are currently at least 3 articles on WP on the subject Episcopal Duchy of Warmia, Archbishopric of Warmia and finally one about the modern bishopric Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Warmia. There was a long and nice discussion about the problems at Talk:Episcopal Duchy of Warmia (in case anybody can take thier time and get more into it) that unfortunately didn't produce a clear consensus how to go about it. So the mess remains and recently has got worse since a number of IP editors have taken it over, see the edit history of this one [41]. So any help would be appreciated to clean the subject up on WP. thanks!-- Termer ( talk) 06:14, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
An article that you have been involved in editing, Ethnic conflicts in western Poland, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ethnic conflicts in western Poland. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Skäpperöd ( talk) 16:51, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
I'll try to make sense of that! The article in question, dealing with the general concept of a Welfare state, has a POV that goes all over the map - but it is especially overburdened by a libertarian/conservative perspective which cites very few references. In trying to counter that viewpoint, others have countered the criticism... so now, the article is a MESS, to put it mildly. It's a battle of sides adding more flame to the fire, instead of snuffing the fire out - so instead of achieving any sort of NPOV, all that the editors are achieving is an increase in the size of the article, and increased confusion to any reader who might genuinely want to learn something from the page.
By "overly American-Flavored" - the majority of the point/counterpoint material is comparative - basically, comparing every OTHER situation in other countries to the United States situation. Not only that, all figures of monetary value are in US dollars - and some figures and graphs are horribly ambiguous, confusing, or downright wrong! I guess it has to be seen to be appreciated.
I thought about doing some editing myself; then, I knew that it would be a mistake to do it on my own - because I live in the United States, for one! Not only that, I do have a pretty strong left-leaning POV when it comes to the material, and so I might not be the best to do it.
In my opinion, there is one major thing that would improve the article; deleting several major sections. It's too long, and like I said, it's longggg because of the back-and-forthness of the material between sides. Thanks to anyone who takes a look at this. Dmodlin71 ( talk) 04:25, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
I wrote in the discussion area for Obama that he is not African American, he had a white mother and a black father, but everyone calls him African American. This is Bias, one sided opinionated nonsense and I am surprised Wikipedia would allow such a racist issue to go on. He is not African American. Why do half African Americans always insist they are full African American? Please just say he has African American Blood for goodness sakes.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.112.222.247 ( talk) 6 July 2008
We usually follow the self-identification of a person. Obama seems to consider himself African-American despite having also the Anglo-Saxon and Arabic heritages. Alex Bakharev ( talk) 13:50, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
There has been some extremely visceral mutual disagreement over whether this article should be in Category:Homophobia or not. The culturally and religiously liberal side says absolutely yes. The culturally and religiously conservative side says absolutely no, and questions the validity of using the word "homophobia" at all. Talk:California Proposition 8 (2008)#Category:Homophobia is where it's being discussed. No one (including myself) seems to have been neutral and detached enough from the issue to offer a possible NPOV that isn't strongly opposed by another editor. I have considered the possibility that for me this is a conflict of interest and I would prefer to excuse myself from the discussion. However, the issue still remains, and someone neutral and detached enough needs to decide whether this category is appropriate for this article, and possibly also to clarify the appropriate criteria and appropriateness of Category:Homophobia itself. - Gilgamesh ( talk) 19:40, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
This 3RR case ended with semi-protection of History of Silesia and Silesian Piasts, due to revert-warring by IP socks. Though socking and edit warring are against policy, it is not clear who is right about the underlying dispute. The warring IP was trying to put a Polish cast on the article, while the other party, LUCPOL, seemed to be removing mentions of Poland and stressing the independent destiny of Silesia. Can't a well-crafted compromise just factually narrate at what periods various parts of Silesia were, or were not in Poland or the various other surrounding countries? Should this be very difficult? Can anyone think how to get a better quality discussion going at Talk:History of Silesia, so that people are critiquing sources instead of exchanging insults? :-) Can anyone think of a polite way to insist on having Talk discussions and edit summaries in English rather than Polish? EdJohnston ( talk) 22:15, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Really? Warmia isn't part of Silesia if you meant that. 84.139.226.24 ( talk) 05:48, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
???? Was Vecrumba talking about Warmia, or not? If he meant Warmia - it's not in Silesia. Whatever you want to express, I don't understand your POV. 84.139.218.5 ( talk) 10:50, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
Vecrumba write: Silesia ...after all, it's named after the Silesians, the Slav tribe that settled in that area.-
Correction: Silesia (Slesia=Schlesien) is named for the Silinger a Vandalic, of the Germanic tribes, who lived in Germania Slavs started moving into Germania after the 6th century and Silesia was conquered by the first duke of the Polans, Mieszko I around 1000 AD, but shortly after lost again. Polish name is Slask. An Observer ( 71.137.197.97 ( talk) 00:43, 15 October 2008 (UTC))
pagus Silensis ( Thietmar of Merseburg), Sleenzane ( Bavarian Geographer)
It is now commonly accepted that the name Silesia (Slask-Śląsk) derives from the name of the Silesian mountain Sleza ( Ślęża) known in German as Zobotenberg. The name of the mountain comes from old West slavic word ślągwa and ślęgnąć which means moisture, humidity etc. It was given to the mountain and the nearby river due to the humidity which was much higer here than anywere else in the region.
Befor the WWII some German nationalists tried to create a new theory as if the name derives from the word Siligi a Vandalic tribe that passed through the region during the Migration Period. It was strongly defended by Karl Mahr in his Bemerkungen zu den Steinbildern am Siling, "Schlesische Blatter", 1940-1941. It is worth mentioning that this and similar "historical works" are nothing more than part of the Nazi propaganda.
Even more obious it is when we see who edited those books. For instance the "Ostgermanen und Nordgermanen", edited in 1940 in Leipzig and Berlin as a third volumin to the "Vorgeschichte der deutschen Stamme" part of which was "Gcrmanische Tat und Kultur auf deutschem Boden" was edited by the "Reichsbund fur deutsche Vorgeschichte" and "Reichsamt f. Vorgeschichte der NSDAP". Authors of those books are nowdays mostly a shamful topic in the German historiography but as I can see some people still use those "arguments" even though they were invented by Nazi Propaganda.
When we look at the name of the province carved on the tomb of Boleslaus the Tall. We can see the name Slezia. It those times the latin name of the province was not yet stable. For instance Thietmar calles it pagus Silensis and in Bavarian Geographer the name of the tribe is Sleenzane. In a Bohemian document from 968 there is province of Slensane. So the name on the tomb could be just one of the Medieval versions that were in use. What is more interesting this name Slezie directly corresponds with the name of the mountain Sleza as well as with the name of the tribe Slensane and therefore could be older and of more Slavic origin than the later latin Silesia. Cheers 213.238.120.27 ( talk) 11:57, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
Please see discussion at Mos(b).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 20:52, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
I've recently noticed that the Romanians page begins with a redivert 'Not to be confused with Roma people'. Including dabs for other groups that might also be confused with Romanians has resulted in their being reverted, apart from the Roma Dab. I strongly suspect that the singling out of this group is motivated by prejudice rather than any disinterested perceived 'ambiguity'. My attempts to address the issue on the Talk Page, in the face of determined resistance, only produces repeated edit reverts. Is there a policy on the use of such 'disclaimers', and guidelines to determine if this one is appropriate? Any advice greatly appreciated. RashersTierney ( talk) 00:39, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
RashersTierney ( talk) 15:38, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
For anyone interested, the issue is currently being discussed at the appropriate
TalkPage.
RashersTierney (
talk) 15:52, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
There is disagreement at Sveta Gera about whether or not the article should be named Sveta Gera, Trdinov vrh, or something else. Outside views and similar assistance would be appreciated at Talk:Sveta Gera#RfC: Article naming. Thanks! Vassyana ( talk) 09:38, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
There's an ongoing problem there with User:Danh claiming that the hundreds of thousands of Romanian citizens living in Spain and Italy are ... not of Romanian ethnicity. It may be true that not all of them are, but seems a ridiculous to insist on this given the overall ethic composition of Romanian citizens. Danh also claims that those living in Spain and Italy are migrant workers, so they shouldn't be counted as living abroad, even though the census bureaus in these coutries do count them as living there. He's basically pushing his own version of WP:TRUTH, i.e. ethnic Romanians don't live abroad in large numbers. He's also labeling editors that disagree with him as "rudimentary trolls". Pcap ping 14:45, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Already many months I have been involved in the discussion about the ethnic composition of Nagorno-Karabakh ( Artsakh) and of the right bank of the Kura river (Artsakh and Utik) in ancient times. Unfortunatly no consensus was so far reached. I have been trying to use the "dubious" tags in order to avoid edit-warring (espacially with User:Grandmaster). However this did not help long, as they are now removed by a user who even did not react in the relevant talkpage. I therefor want to ask some third-party users to see if they can help us in the following talk pages:
Thank you beforehand.-- Vacio ( talk) 15:41, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Here is a citation from ' The Caucasian Knot' By Levon Chorbajian, Claude Mutafian which could be used as a starting point:
Armenian historians...argue that Caucasian Albanians were absorbed by the Armenians...Azerbaijani historians in stark contrast view Caucasian Albania as the precursor of modern Azerbaijan.
-- Termer ( talk) 19:19, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Did the suggestion help? And the exact "neutral and reliable third party source" suggested by the guy that should be used would be...? Exactly, -none, that is the reason you haven't solved anything because the suggestion doesn't count on realities. Such sources do not exist simply because there is no King Solomon around among historians who'd be able to be "neutral" enough so that any Gordian Knot could be solved so easily in practice. The only proven way to solve any such disputes on Wikipedia is to list opposing POV-s side by side and in that sense the citation I provided above, it can't get more neutral than that. Please read the WP:NPOV -> WP:YESPOV. 'the neutral point of view is a point of view, not the absence or elimination of viewpoints...The policy requires that where multiple or conflicting perspectives exist within a topic each should be presented fairly...etc. Good luck!-- Termer ( talk) 06:35, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
So what do the "top international experts on the ancient history of the region" say differently from the citation above?-- Termer ( talk) 07:13, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Hummus and Za'atar saw ethnic clashes recently, believe it or not, and now the batttleground is Tabbouleh. It's being asserted that the term "Levantine cuisine" is a racist, offensive colonial slur to divide the grand Arab nation. It's enough to give one indigestion. < eleland/ talk edits> 05:26, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Another round has started up, related to Hummus and Felafel this time. See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration#Of_all_things_..._Hummus and the article talk pages; there appears to be disagreement over when you cross the line between documenting a verifiable ethnic/cultural conflict over the origins of national cuisines into actually participating in such a conflict. (See for example this al Jazeera English piece on Jerusalem street food, and its reception and critique in the Jerusalem culture guide, a site about local culture from an Israeli-Jewish perspective.) There is also question over the use of the term "Palestine," with some arguing that it is anachronistic and could be confused for the nascent and unrecognized State of Palestine, and others (incl. myself) arguing that it is a natural and normal geographical term and will be understood in context as referring to Palestine (region). More eyeballs welcome. < eleland/ talk edits> 02:37, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
While discussing Anti-Arabism section about Algeria a dispute arose concerning the relvance of information (such quality of life, speaking french, being christian secular) and some unrelated stated sources. I asked for a section rewrite and put a dispute frame to invite more contributors in good faith. I want to apologize for playing the Don't call the kettle black game but I have no options. The user Nabilus_junius has been causing disruptive edits and undoes, including edit warring, racist attacks against a whole race and people (he said in French: ..Il est interessant de voire comment les arabes vivants en europe savent user des failles de la démocratie chrétienne pour imposer leur lois (bien plus loin que ce qu'ils leur est du)..), personal attacks, accusations of Conflicts of Interest, a hostile tone, writing in a language other than English (I think Kabyle + French), misusing Wikipedia policies and guidelines and refusing to reach a consensus on the topic.
You can check the disucssion here Talk:Anti-Arabism#Algeria_section_rewrite, click here for my last edit snapshot. I am waiting for third party opinions and assistance to resolve the dispute as I cannot continue playing the do/undo game forever. Bestofmed ( talk) 17:19, 20 December 2008 (UTC).
A section of this article entitled " European plates and the GB controversy" describes the various country codes found on European-format number plates of vehicles registered in Northern Ireland. This section has been subject to persistent sporadic edit-warring since July 2008, with (suspiciously similar) edits expressing a distinctly non-neutral POV on the status of Northern Ireland being made by Theraven77 ( talk · contribs), 81.158.101.130 ( talk · contribs), 217.42.114.133 ( talk · contribs) and, most recently, 81.158.100.23 ( talk · contribs) and 86.157.227.132 ( talk · contribs). Ironically, all the IP addresses are from BT Broadband customer IP pools. None of these edits are referenced or have edit summaries, and no attempt has been made to engage in debate on the talk page, despite me adding a request for such. They also tend to be badly written with spelling and typographical errors. Letdorf ( talk) 00:57, 23 December 2008 (UTC).
There seems to be an edit conflict over the inclusion of the pejorative "Tomb of an Unknown Rapist" name for the Soviet War Memorial (Treptower Park). The monument is a major War World II grave and one of the main international symbols for the victory over Nazism. While every major monument in existence has more or less funny pejorative nickname I do not think the inclusion of such an information satisfies WP:UNDUE. I do not think it is appropriate for the article on this War Memorial and I would not want a race in finding pejoratives for other graves and national icons that would follow inclusion of this informations Alex Bakharev ( talk) 02:09, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
An anonymous ip is constructing an elaborate propaganda piece at Turkish genocide, a disambiguation page. Assistance needed. Aramgar ( talk) 22:55, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
hello, to get you in the context of things, there was an issue between assyrianists and arameanists about the 'assyrian people page' arameanists claim that Syriacs are not assyrians rather arameans, while assyrians claim syriacs are infact assyrians. Long story short, some admins got involved and we compromised that the pages should be one, and that instead of just "Assyrian" they be "Assyrian/Syriac" or "Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac", as seen here: [ [45]], and [ [46]]. This was the norm for a while and everyone was happy. User:The TriZ took liberty of changing all previous "Assyrian" to "Assyrian/Syriac" and everyone was fine with that too. Now the issue is that when I tried to do the exact same thing he did but changing "Syriac" to "Assyrian/Syriac" he undoes my posts ... I ask for explanation, and he asks for sources (mind you he provided no sources for Syriac), then I provide him with sources, and he does want to continue to discuss the issue. He impliments his POV in every page without any sources, and when we try to put the accepted neutral stance of "Assyrian/Syriac" title (Which he agreed upon) he is against it. This is POV at its fullest. The pages I am talking about are: [ [47]], [ [48]], [ [49]], [ [50]], and he recently changed "Assyrian" to "Syriac" just recently on this page [ [51]]. I have asked him as to why he keeps doing this on this talkpage but as you will see he does want to discuss. P.S. his moves threaten the neutral "Assyrian/Syriac" titles implemented by admins, If he continues like this then what is the point of keeping his changes from "Assyrian" to "Assyrian/Syriac"? Malik Danno ( talk) 17:17, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Background:
Pula in Romanian means basically dick. This is accepted in the country, and the page on ro wiki is protected for these obvious reasons. Even the wiki disambig page is getting vandalised by Romanian prankers, but many seem to turn a blind eye to this. As a side-note, I notice that Dick has a similar definition for penis, and is as well protected.
The introduction of the term on Wiktionary was as well controversial, and not permited until an established user added it in a very clear form. Before that, some users were even banned for daring to add this definition there.
Conflict:
I've made an edit on the page, reverting the revertal of an unaware bot of the definition. Before this, I looked in the history and I notice many good-faith edits by Romanians have been reverted as vandalism or diverse reasons. There's no discussion on the talk page and I doubt the undo-happy-trigger-people would take too much time to check it out. I've asked some established users on ro wiki to introduce it themselves, but it seems I'm talking to the walls and noone wants to bother.
What I don't understand is why people from other nationalities, that probably most of the times don't even know or bother to find out about words in other languages, take it upon themselves to revert good-faith edits without a second notice.
I'm requesting some form of introducing and keeping it in that disambig page, as the English slang has one on the dick disambig page, it's only fair enough - it's an "important" word in Romanian slang, mainstream (although I have little idea on the references, but if it was finally accepted on Wiktionary some time ago, I guess they found some, anyway this isn't about making an article about it or its uses, just a short line about the meaning of the word).
I'd like to underline again that the word "Pula" in Romanian language has the same meaning and same wide-spread as "Dick" has in English. -- Anime Addict AA ( talk) 17:25, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
An editor started two threads. Dispute is about whether Rostock was a Polish WWII war aim and if the source, Naimark, has an anti-Polish POV.
Since the discussion has become somehow personal and the sentence in question was outright deleted [52], I guess it would need some neutral input. Skäpperöd ( talk) 14:52, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Sometime might remember this. The issue of naming in the South Tyrol (Italian names versus German ones) is now making its way around the noticeboards as a bitterly-fought issue. For example, it's now being contested at ANI. Does anyone know if Arbcom has ever considered the South Tyrol issue? This seems like an area where restrictions like those of WP:ARBMAC could be useful. There seem to be hundreds of kB of discussion in the archives about the South Tyrol naming dispute, but no clear precedent that you can ask people to abide by. In the Gdansk case, at least there was an answer given, and an accepted procedure for changes. If anyone has pointers on where to look, it would be appreciated. EdJohnston ( talk) 17:37, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
There is a very persistent attempt to insert an excerpt from a 1949 CIA Report that is completely unrelated to the article (on the 1947 resolution) and let alone to the section in which it is inserted. The March 1949 CIA Report does not deal with the UN Partition Resolution and is simply a POV written by anonymous writer whose significance and influence are not clear (but even if it were influential and accurate it has nothing to do with the article). Also the cited paragraph is an extreme POV without justification or relevance. two users insist on inserting it. One of them give arguments that are simply off the wall the other one simply calls preventing the insertion "bad faith". I think that it is high time for an intervention. Mashkin ( talk) 19:08, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
There's a single purpose account attacking any information about Italian people in the article White Brazilian. He has clear "pro-Portuguese" aspirations (in a sentence he writes about his "Portuguese" grandparents, when nobody asked him about it [53] then he starts a discussion to include informations about Portuguese not even listed in his sources [54]) then he started to claim that Portuguese are the majority of White Brazilians, and started to undermine the influence of other peoples.
This user was already blocked 2 times (on the same week) for attacking this same article. [55] Now he's dedicated to undermine the influence of Italians, Germans, Arabs, Spaniards, etc, in Brazil [56] [57]. Notice how he tried to enflate the Portuguese and undermine Italians, Arabs and Germans in this edit [58]. Ethnic persecution? Opinoso ( talk) 21:42, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
I'd be grateful if editors could keep an eye on Thebuddah ( talk · contribs) and his recent contributions to Black Stone. He's repeatedly pasting in an unsourced personal essay which, if I understand Dbachmann correctly, is a fringe Hindu nationalist viewpoint that asserts that the Ka'aba in Mecca was originally a Hindu temple. I've advised the editor about Wikipedia's content policies, but the message doesn't seem to have sunk in yet. -- ChrisO ( talk) 12:42, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
I don't know if this is the right place to present this, but I would like somebody that is more familiar with ethnic issues and neutrality policies to take a look at the Marian Cozma article. Marian Cozma is a Romanian hand ball player that was killed by two Hungarian Romani (Gypsy) individuals in Hungary. This led to strong anti-Romani feelings in both Romania and Hungary. I do not mind that this feelings be represented on Wikipedia, but the article is written in such a way so as to enforce those feelings. I think that most of the people that have contributed to the article just used Marian's death as a pretext to promote xenophoby. I have tried to add some other views to add more balance, but I think that the article is still anti-Romani biased in the way that is written. I would like to ask especially to those that understand the Hungarian language, as many of the sources, as well as an Youtube movie, are in Hungarian, a language that I don't understand. Thank you! Kenshin ( talk) 11:08, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
This Dunmanway Massacre, is a an article about an act of political violence in Ireland in April 1922, in which up to 14 people were killed (11 certainly and three disappeared). At least ten and up to thirteen of those killed were Protestants and this has been cited as a sectarian atrocity by the Irish Republican Army - especially by controversial historian Peter Hart. The current version, which I feel is highly Irish Republican pov, advances the thesis that there was no communal conflict between Catholics and Protestants in the area, that those killed have been identified as informers and that the IRA or its members have not been proved to have been responsible. An alternative version, User:Jdorney/Dunmanway_Massacre the details of which have been deleted from the current article, tries to present details of communal conflict - such as the identifiaction of sections of the Protestant poplation with Loyalist politics and the IRA's prior targetting of them by burning thiers houses. This version also tries to take a more neutral tone regarding the modern interpretations of the event. I would appreciate it if editors could compare and contrast the two to try to reach npov in this article. Thanks. Jdorney ( talk) 15:39, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
Yousaf465 ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) has been on an Anti-India propoganda for sometime now.He began with complaining of too much India bias for FAs on Mainpage at time when there was 59 Indian FAs and 1 Pakistani FA. He is now on a spree to get all images that decipts Pakistan as terrorist hub like [59]. His new interest is to push Anti India POV on State-sponsored terrorism ( history) article. With this edit he removed everything related to Pakistan and replacing with India and Israel. His edits were repeatedly revereted by many users including YellowMonkey. YM blocked him for edit waring and POV push on the article. User:Seicer who is soft on Yousaf , unblocked him ( saying that YM didnt respond back in time) and blocked User:24.28.83.178 who had been also reverting Yousuf's POV additions. A new user Maijinsan ( talk · contribs · count) came up from no-where an adding sock tag to many usernames including the above IP editor... It is evident that he himself is a sock. Seicer semi-protected the article and allowed Yousuf to continue to add Anti-India POV statements referenced to Pak dailies which cannot be considered as reliable . I dont want to " edit war" with him and request for third opinions here.-- Tinu Cherian - 12:09, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
There is small danger that SPA account Bizso ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) will start nationalistic edit warring between Croatian and Hungarian users and because of that I will like to see administration decision about personal union problem.
During edit warring in article Croatia in personal union with Hungary user Bizso is not disputing existence of personal union only validity of document with which union is created [61], but in articles he has started to delete title King of Croatia from rulers of this personal union ? For example I will use article about Ferdinand I Habsburg [62] . I really do not have time for looking on internet for old money or old documents about all articles which he has started to change like I have done for Ferdinand I [63]. On money of Ferdinand I is writen: "Ferdinand, by the grace of God king of Bohemia, Hungary, Dalmatia & Croatia, prince of Spain, archduke of Austria, duke of Burgundy & Silesia, margrave of Moravia".
My point is if user has accepted existence of union then it is not possible to question fact that ruler of 1 country of this union is ruler of second country.
Maybe, maybe there is good faith mistake of user Bizso because for him Lands of St. Stephen=Kingdom of Hungary [64] which are in reality different things. Link for article Lands of St. Stephen before massive rewriting of user Bizso [65].
Can somebody please stop this massive rewriting and edit warring ?-- Rjecina ( talk) 16:11, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
The title of the Hungarian rulers was King of Hungary, and not King of Hungary-Croatia. Croatia was governed by a ban. Please, check it on www.britannica.com All the articles are wrong. Most of the articles were changed in February 2007 by various IP addresses. the King of Hungary was not crowned separately as king of Croatia. He was king of the Croatian people as well as king of the Slovaks and king of the residents of Buda and so on, but these are not mentioned in the articles. Croatia was governed by a ban at that time.-- Bizso ( talk) 11:04, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
Rjecina ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
Croatia was part of Kingdom of Hungary from 1102/1091-1918. It is disputed whether Croatia joined to Hungary by a personal union in 1102, or was conquered by Hungary in 1091.It is not disputed that Croatia was given limited internal autonomy over some of her affairs; sometimes more, sometimes less. The Lands of St Stephen was the official name for Kingdom of Hungary. This is stated in virtually all reliable, verifiable sources and historical maps including Britannica 2009 and Encarta. Rjecina cannot accept this fact owing to his patriotic/nationalistic emotions, thus he alters history at least on Wikipedia. What user Rjecina presents is that Kingdom of Hungary and Kingdom of Croatia were two separate independent kingdoms and the only common between them was the ruler. This is in fact not true. Croatia was ruled by Hungarian kings and a ban was appointed to the administrative district that was Croatia. When he asserts these facts, he furthermore doesn't provide any references, or when he does so, the references he cites in fact support the contrary what he states or refer to entirely different historic periods (Kingdom of Croatia before the Hungarian rule). Hence, in fact he attempts to manipulate the reader hoping that she/he doesn't check the references. See. [66] and [67].
See some example sources, including Encyclopedia Britannica 2009 and Encyclopedia Encarta 2009 that state the academic level viewpoint that Croatia was in fact ruled by Hungary, Britannica 1911 especially stating the Croatia was a province of Hungary. Rjecina cannot accept this, thus he censors Wikipedia and engages into edit wars. See Talk:Croatia_in_personal_union_with_Hungary titled Croatia-Slavonia in the Kingdom of Hungary. but it appears he has removed other users relevant and valuable comments again for I don't know how many times now. [68] [69] and again [70]. He deleted my comments too, removing circa 30 sources including Britannica and Encarta among other English academic sources [71] He is stating the Britannica and Encarta peddle Fringe theories Talk:Kingdom_of_Hungary_in_the_Middle_Ages The problem is that Rjecina cannot discuss nor edit these articles in an objective manner, beause he doesn't acknowledge all competing viewpoints. Although this is fair enough, because everyone is entitled to have an opinion regarding a matter. But Wikipedia should be objective on the other hand, and should not include personal reflections and assertions of the users who edit it, without any references.
He introduces false facts [72], in addition he removes Britannica refernces [73] and doesn't respond on the talk page Talk:Croatia#Questions and also fails to explain himself here when he removed references again Talk:Croatia#User:Rjecina. He cannot accept the validity of Britannica, nor the 1911 edition nor the 2009 edition, just because it says something else that he would like to hear. Hence, as he can't edit britannica or encarta, he changes articles on Wikipedia. see Talk:Triune_Kingdom_of_Croatia,_Slavonia,_and_Dalmatia As a result he removes Britannica 2009 refernces 1st time [74], 2nd time [75], 3rd time [76]. 4th time [77] Now, he removes references from Encyclopedia Encarta. [78]. He calls Academic references "Spam" [79] He deliberately maintains ambiguity and makes disruptive edits here [80], [81], here [82], here again [83], again [84], he sometimes deletes it altogether [85] in addition to the citation needed tags [86]. When I add the other competing academic viewpoint (that he personally supports) to an article to balance it out and include all significant viewpoints, he changes that too! [87] Even the one that he supports, which suggests that he is simply stalking me now.
He maintains ambiguity although article is tagged for in need of Copy-Editing [88] However, he also engages in nationalistic conflicts with other users here Talk:Jasenovac_concentration_camp#Removal_of_images and censors images that hurt his nationalistic feelings regarding history of Croatia and Serbia. [89]He not only deletes talk pages, but also censors articles by removing additional realibly sourced information because he can't take it. He removed sourced information from Encyclopedia of the Holocaust by Shelach [90]
He blanks talk pages that do not suit his personal view. He removed sourced references from talk page. [91] [92]Removed even more sourced references from talk page but left other viewpoint there. He deletes the competing academic level viewpoint and on top that removes references and replaces unreferenced tag and maintains a POV frok [93]. He removes citation needed tags and introduces inaccuracy to suit his views, removes other additional information thus maintains biased sentences [94]
On top of all this, he is constantly accusing me of being a socket puppet of other users that dare to question Rjecina's neutral point of view and of those who also oppose Rjecina's nationalistic POV pushing. He calls me Vandal [95], and my edits disruptive [96] without any basis.
He now has started reverting other users' edits too, because he believes that they are me. [97] [98] [99] [100] [101] [102]
Some quotes:
You are facing with group of people coming from Croatia whose hurt nationalistic pride cannot stand seeing these pictures here. These people want only to destroy this article - if not completely then just as much as they can. This is a consequence of Mr Wales' idea that everybody can contibute knowledge - which makes this and other articles unprotected against malice and ignorance.--71.252.55.101 (talk) 20:10, 14 February 2009 (UTC) Actually that groups of people only refer to Rjecina, as he simply patrols pages.
You deleted the truth. You didn't care about the sources, there were only 11 about the conquer of Croatia, but you deleted it Toroko (talk) 23:02, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Although the status of Croatia in the Kingdom of Hungary is still disputed; according to all sources here: Whether you call it conquer, annexation, addition or union; the important thing is that Hungary had control over Croatia, but gave her some extent of internal autonomy within the Kingdom of Hungary (Lands of St. Stephen) and in this relationship Hungary and Croatia were not equal parties--Bizso (talk) 22:01, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
Related talk pages: Talk:Croatia#lol.2C_funny_-_Union_with_Hungary, Talk:Croatia#Congratulations.21, User:Bizso/Reporting_Rjecina#Discussion_2
Therefore I would like to Request the following: User:Rjecina has shown no sign of being capable of distancing himself from his nationalistic/patriotic emotions with regard to the issue on the Valditiy of Pacta Conventa and historical Croatian-Hungarian relations and history of Croatia-Serbia. Hence, User:Rjecina is unable to positively contribute to Wikipedia in an objective manner, which is required by Wikipedia's Policy on Netral Point of View. He is effectively censoring Wikipedia due to patriotic feelings for his recently independent country. He furthermore deliberatly prevents the improvement of Wikipedian articles with regard to these topics by engaging in edit wars and calling other users vandal and disruptive.
As an admin who has had his own fair share of arguments in this section, including a few arguments with User:Rjecina in particular (includes blocking threats), there is probably a part of me that is sympathetic to this request. However, I am not going anywhere near this. I believe I will never block someone solely based on POV-pushing until I am certain that the people opposing are being reasonable, and frankly I'm not going to be confident of that when the other side is blasting away with demands that people be banned without any discussion of alternatives. Do you people honestly believe that nothing short of a full ban is appropriate? Do you people believe that admins will look at this and go along, or don't you think asking for the most extreme situation might turn some people off? Words of advice: you will never get any admin to help out when you blast a wall of text like this. If you have a specific point about conduct, mention that and that alone (with diffs). If you have a specific point about a specific article, point us to the article, the talk page and again with the diffs. Focus. If your argument is that someone else disagrees with you and disputes you and therefore should be banned, that's not going to fly. And Bizso, get rid of all the reports on Rjecina on your talk page if you want to taken remotely seriously. You are turning even the moderates against you. -- Ricky81682 ( talk) 03:56, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
There is a problem on this caegory page: Category:People from Elbląg. As its name states this is a list of people from Elbląg. The city was from 1466 to 1772, and since 1945 again is, part of Poland. Various names were used for it ( see here). Despite this situation user 71.137.194.48 constantly changes the description of the category to People from the Prussian city of Elbing since 1945 known as Elbląg in Poland.
At first he stated that the name Elbląg was invented in 1945. Even though I proved him wrong he still changes the description in the Category People from Elbląg into People from the Prussian city of Elbing. It is a compleatly different description than the categorys name. What is more we all know that state of Prussia does not exist now in any political form and if we wont to say that it "lies in Prussia" we can only refer to a historical region. In Poland those territories that were once part of that region are refered to as Warmia, Pomorze Gdańskie and Mazury. And the city of Elbląg itself lies in a modern region called Warmian-Masurian Voivodship.
In my opinion there are three solutions:
Could you do something about it? I will of course accept every decisiion made by the Admins. Best Wishes 77.253.65.101 ( talk) 16:10, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Hello, can someone take a look at the malicious and politically motivated editing that has been added to the Syrian Social Nationalist Party article recently. Over the past few days the page has been attacked and remade framing the party as a fascist Nazi spin off. The sources being used are all polemicists with a hostile agenda against the party. It seems probable that the editing is being done by a Jewish pro-Zionist editor and his sockpuppets. I suggest reversing the past weeks edits to around this edit [114] and fully protecting the page from any further changes for a while. What do you think? 94.192.38.247 ( talk) 17:56, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
May I draw your attention to Talk:Expulsion of Germans after World War II#RfC: Polish politicians and army comand call for punishment of Germans for Nazi aggression. Skäpperöd ( talk) 20:58, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
A POV-tag has been placed because the article relies much on German sources and therefore must be biased. I strongly disagree a) that there is such a thing as a "German POV", and b) that articles based on sources primarily written by natives of a certain country are automatically biased. If we place POV tags this way, what happens is that articles dealing with topics primarily researched by natives of a particular country have no way to get rid of that tag, regardless how neutral different POVs of these researchers are presented if even these different POVs exist. Please comment on Talk:Flight and expulsion of Germans from Poland during and after World War II/Archive 2#German POV. Skäpperöd ( talk) 20:58, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
I also find it disturbing that with the POV-tag, a refimprove tag was added to the article, because it is containing paragraphs missing inline refs. It makes the article look "in-credible" in the literary sense, despite sources are given and most of the important stuff has inline citations. Even the FAs could be tagged with that refimprove tag, and articles without sources should obviously enough display their need for sources even without that tag. Skäpperöd ( talk) 20:58, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Edit-warring over which nation invented this dish. I tried to be peacemaker, and got personally attacked because of it, and I don't care enough to put up with the tsuris. THF ( talk) 17:23, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Nonsense, there has been no edit warring about 'who invented this dish' as stated by THF. His behaviour is subversive and WP:GAME. See the Sfiha talk page. 94.192.38.247 ( talk) 18:02, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
This is an article that seems to be undergoing some minor edit warring. Apparently, both sides have edited and deleted each others edits, all due to POV. Looking at the previous edits, the crux of the matter is the view of Hungarian vs. Slovak POV on the event. CardinalDan ( talk) 21:46, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Having just come across the existence of this noticeboard, it seems relevant to mention here the edit warring going on at this article, with currently rather little discussion on the Talk page of the actual edits being made (instead general discussion about the issue, due to the disagreements being so fundamental). If people here have experience of this sort of thing (I don't), their input may be helpful. Rd232 talk 16:21, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
An editor spent several days attempting to rewrite the existing article on this topic, got shot down by consensus, so s/he set up a new page to explain the history of the conflict as it really happened. Like other nations, the Palestinians have their own proprietary universities and university chairs for this kind of special pleading. Historicist ( talk) 17:19, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
A straw poll is currently ongoing about how the Republic of Macedonia should be described in the article Greece and related articles. The name of the RoM is a controversial issue in Greece and a number of articles relating to Greece use a different terminology from that in operation in the rest of Wikipedia. The straw poll proposes that the terminology should be standardised across Wikipedia. Please leave comments at Talk:Greece#Straw poll on the application of the name "Republic of Macedonia" on the article Greece. -- ChrisO ( talk) 00:07, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
User 92.27.15.246 has been adding "grossly offensive racial comments" on some pages. Please see contribs. Montgomery' 39 ( talk) 19:36, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
New article undergoing an AFD. Article presents broader issues. The word “Judaize” is an old term referring to the attraction of some Christians to Jewish theology and practice. This old term has been put to a new political use in the last couple of decades, almost exclusively by individuals, some with university appointments, who are outspoken opponents of the existence of the State of Israel. Islamization is an old coinage referring to the spread of Islam, both political and religious. There is a large literature on Islamizaton going back centuries and covering most of the world. In many parts fo the world, memories of forcess Islamization still rankle. If we are to go this route, it would be equally useful to have articles on the Islamisation of Constantinople the Islamisation of Budapest the Islamisation of France – we can cover the globe! How would we argue against a Greek nationalist who wanted to wirte on Islamization of Constantinople if we have an article on the Judaization of Jerusalem? Do we really want to go there? This material, after all, could form a short paragraph in a more balanced article on Jerusalem. Historicist ( talk) 20:55, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Comment The article clearly violates all core Wikipedia policies, the subject is defined by pro Arab, anti Israeli sources and is therefore far from anything that would be close to WP:NPOV or even WP:YESPOV that could describe the dispute instead of geting involved with it. As far as I'm concerned, the article could be also named Rejudaization of Jerusalem considering that historically the city was established by Jews and later taken over by Arabs etc. So this is slippery road that the creators of this article have taken and I'm just amazed that such one sided political propaganda like the article is full of is tolerated on Wikipedia.-- Termer ( talk) 05:49, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
This noticeboard, it seems, is functioning only as a place for frustrated editors to vent their frustration, making a noticeboard of no real interest to me. I will close this discussion, with my original point: the article does not comply with WP policy for descriptive names, and at minimum needs to be moved to a new, and more neutral, name. Malcolm Schosha ( talk) 16:26, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
This article has been plagued with issues in its history. Just recently it was subject to two BLP Noticeboard threads ( [117], [118]), a request for comment ( [119]), an Edit-Warring Noticeboard thread ( [120]), to name a few. It was even brought to arbitration which eventually passed resolutions, although they have had little effect as evidenced by this stale Arbitration Enforcement thread ( [121]).
There are legitimate BLP and NPOV concerns (weight, direct quoting, weasel wording), but there is also a pattern of tendentious editing such as removing tags, reintroducing heavily-weighted quoting, etc. The article needs fresh eyes, and I'm nearing the end of my rope on this one. ← Spidern → 13:39, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
I renamed Republic of Macedonia to Macedonia earlier to address a long-running dispute over the article name; the policy rationale is at Talk:Macedonia#Article move. Input from editors with an interest in ethnic conflicts would be welcomed. -- ChrisO ( talk) 21:41, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
You did not address a long-running dispute. You just destroyed the delicate balance there was between the two communities and singlehandedly sabotaged all relating articles, which will naturally be attacked after the fanaticism you brought on. You knew perfectly well what would happen and you decided to ignore logic and common sense to create a problematic situation. Well done! GK1973 ( talk) 23:36, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Although the move is backed up by valid sources, I'm not sure whether that was a good idea, given the existing tensions. It was not a bad thing per se, but it'll definitely draw heat. — Admiral Norton ( talk) 13:09, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone know anything about Kurds, Syrians, and the best reliable sources for writing about them, and want to wade into the waters of this article? It looks like there's an edit-war between two different not-very-neutral versions. - FisherQueen ( talk · contribs) 02:07, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
I'd like to notify editors that there is an RfC here where the request is that the term Hamastan be described, first and foremost, as a pejorative. The issue is whether this meets NPOV standards and is reliably sourced. Outside views would be welcomed. Jaakobou Chalk Talk 22:41, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
it is known to majority that in islam, making pictures of living things is near to be forbidden. it is being told in islam clearly that peoples who make pictures of living things and humans will be punished the most on the day of the judgment. for that reason islamic culture move towards calligraphy etc. In wikipedia when i search for the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, there are some pictures who portray Muhammad peace be upon him. which not only hurt muslims as muslims themselves have never tried to made any sculpture or picture of said personality. nor this practice is being done for any other famous figure related to islam and its history. offcorse not by muslims. i humbly requests wikipedia to delete those pictures. i dont think they are very relevant to the topic also. i found that article complete without them too. ofcorse its not wikipedia by which i or we learn our Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, as we have much more trusted medias to do so. but i came to know about this by facebooks cause. this is no good practice. i really pledge for this issue. to be addressed as soon as possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Innocent danger ( talk • contribs) 11:04, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
hello, to get you in the context of things, there was an issue between assyrianists and arameanists about the 'assyrian people page' arameanists claim that Syriacs are not assyrians rather arameans, while assyrians claim syriacs are infact assyrians. Long story short, some admins got involved and we compromised that the pages should be one, and that instead of just "Assyrian" they be "Assyrian/Syriac" or "Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac", as seen here: [ [122]], and [ [123]]. This was the norm for a while and everyone was happy. User:The TriZ took liberty of changing all previous "Assyrian" to "Assyrian/Syriac" and everyone was fine with that too. Now the issue is that when I tried to do the exact same thing he did but changing "Syriac" to "Assyrian/Syriac" he undoes my posts ... I ask for explanation, and he asks for sources (mind you he provided no sources for Syriac), then I provide him with sources, and he does want to continue to discuss the issue. He impliments his POV in every page without any sources, and when we try to put the accepted neutral stance of "Assyrian/Syriac" title (Which he agreed upon) he is against it. This is POV at its fullest. The pages I am talking about are: [ [124]], [ [125]], [ [126]], [ [127]], and he recently changed "Assyrian" to "Syriac" just recently on this page [ [128]]. I have asked him as to why he keeps doing this on this talkpage but as you will see he does want to discuss. P.S. his moves threaten the neutral "Assyrian/Syriac" titles implemented by admins, If he continues like this then what is the point of keeping his changes from "Assyrian" to "Assyrian/Syriac"? Malik Danno ( talk) 17:17, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
There is an edit war with the Piracy in Somalia page. I suggested to the two editors involved that their edits were taking on characteristics of an edit war, and asked them both to take a one week holiday from editing the article... however both insist on having the last word. Both insist that what they are doing is needed for NPOV, and one of them uses [OR] to justify removing anything that he disagrees with. Both are clearly well-intentioned people. It really needs some neutral people to become involved.-- Toddy1 ( talk) 05:17, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
- "Since the Somali government collapsed in 1991, including the coast guard, there have been a lot of questions regarding the motivations and intentions of the so-called "pirates"."
- "However, no efforts from the international community have been conducted on behalf of the people of Somalia to deter and punish multinational corporations for their violation of international law."
- "In terms of territorial sovereignty, there has been a lack of questions regarding the illegal presence of these "victim tankers" off of the coast of Somalia"
- "European ships began dumping millions of barrels of toxic waste into the ocean off the Somali coast."
- "I must stress however, that no government has endorsed this act, and that private companies and individuals acting alone are responsible,"
- Ould-Abdallah said piracy will not prevent waste dumping.
- "The intentions of these pirates are not concerned with protecting their environment," he said.
- "What is ultimately needed is a functioning, effective government that will get its act together and take control of its affairs."
- that piracy will not prevent the dumping of waste, "The intentions of these pirates are not concerned with protecting their environment,", and "What is ultimately needed is a functioning, effective government that will get its act together and take control of its affairs.
- that piracy will not prevent waste dumping: "The intentions of these pirates are not concerned with protecting their environment," and "What is ultimately needed is a functioning, effective government that will get its act together and take control of its affairs.
Horn of Africa is a region with many serious international conflicts and problems. Sadly, the section on 'culture' was in a state of serious neglect until my edits of the last few days. One of the editors seems to think that my edits threaten his nationalist interest, hence he wrote the following comment on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Scoobycentric ... "I constantly find myself caught in the most retarded edit wars on this silly site. Right now brother, there are two I'm involved in. The first I've pretty much got under control and that's on the Piracy in Somalia page. However, the second one could be a major problem. Some Afrocentrist has just targeted the Horn of Africa page, and he's been adding things that don't really jibe with reality and that are too pro-Ethiopia (you know how they're obsessed with Habesha! lol)."
I suspect it is me that 'Middayexpress' is falsely labelling an 'Afrocentrist'. I approached the article with the clear and stated intention of dealing in a neutral way with all of the states and ethnic groups in the region and an absolute hostility to any kind of ethno-centricism - a position I have outlined and defended in the talk page. This is not true of Middayexpress, whose primary interest is Somalia. That is fine, but what is not fine is his belligerent attitude and his absurd removal of a picture of the leading sportsman of the region just because he is Ethiopian. I'd be grateful for some assistance in helping this editor to realise that there are four states in the region, not just the one. Ackees ( talk) 01:28, 26 April 2009 (UTC) Ackees ( talk) 01:29, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
"Some Afrocentrist has just targeted the Horn of Africa page, and he's been adding things that don't really jibe with reality and that are too pro-Ethiopia (you know how they're obsessed with Habesha! lol). I've re-balanced the page, but he'll probably be back soon enough... Nice edits bro. The page was too Ethio-centric, so I tried to add some Somali info to it to balance it out a bit."
I'm going to ignore the WP:HOUNDING by you Ackees. Suspicion of you having a 'agenda' is not without 'warrant' I remember your name from when i visited the E1b1b article's talkpage(only a month ago) when you were edit-warring with several wiki-editors about the image of a Somali politician and how he in your eyes didn't look Somali [129]. Other than stating that the Somali Politician resembled a Greek/Mexican you failed to make your point why he didn't look Somali and resorted to blame it all on the 'White racist Boogeymen'. If anyone is feeling their 'interests are 'threatened' by reliable sources it would be you since you have a clear pre-conceived image of what Somalis are supposed to look like and therefore probably also the Horn of Africa! Your history again on a deleted section of the E1b1b clearly demonstrates that you have an agenda that you are pursuing [130]. There another editor made it clear that 'race' was not an obselete term but was still very much a subject of debate, Middayexpress also made the same point here [131]. The majority Ethnic groups of the Horn of Africa constitute a clear distinct population from the rest of Africa. Wether it's the majority Cushitic/Ethiopic languages that are only found there, the unique Cultural heritage, the classical Horn of African phenotype evolved over thousands of years, or the genetical markers predominant in Horn Africans and which originated in the Horn of Africa. Highlighting this is not 'racism' as Midday has given you plenty of scholars that follow this line of thinking. Your edits on sports page with regards to countries such as Somalia and Djibouti were horrible hence why both me and Middayexpress began balancing it out by adding Somali athletes -- Scoobycentric ( talk) 05:16, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Dear Scooby,
First you falsely accuse me of WP:HOUNDING - and then immediately admit that after hounding me a month ago on the Haplogroup_E1b1b_(Y-DNA), you faithfully obeyed Middayexpress's command to come and hound me some more on the Horn of Africa page [132]. All 'populations' are distinct from, or are indeed linked to, all others - depending on whatever arbitrary measure one wishes to use. For example, if we were to take the 'far right' as our arbitrary category, then crypto-fascist Euro-Americans pretending to be Somali nationalists are a 'distinct population' from neo-fascist North Italians eager to relive the glories of Il Duce. Nevertheless, both are linked by a common pseudo-scientific anti-rational heritage that remains obsessed with 19th-century myths about 'race', 'racial purity', 'racial difference' etc, etc. However, I'm glad that you, Middayexpress and all decent editors are uniting with the consensus to purge such ideologically-driven nonsense from the scientific pages of Wikipedia. Ackees ( talk) 14:18, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Could a number of more informed fellow admins take a look at this thread (and its sub-threads) over at Occupation of the Baltic states? User:Dojarca who represents what I'll call the current Russian nationalist view of events asked me to take a look at the POV of the article with concerns that it is anti-Russian in tone, which given the topic of the article should not be a huge surprise. My request is for others to weigh in on trying to hash out some more neutral middle ground, either with a page move, or changes to the article. I really haven't made much progress as everyone on the talk page seems to be shouting past me. I also have not made any changes to the article itself. All thoughts are greatly appreciated! Hiberniantears ( talk) 16:40, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
The changes I made yesterday go a long way to bringing the article back to a more NPOV presentation... and I did that without adding or removing a thing. That said, we can probably move the conversation back to the article page since it appears nobody reads this board unless they are monitoring my own contributions. Hiberniantears ( talk) 11:19, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, I'm not particularly familiar with the rules behind WP:CANVASS but do people think User:Kasaalan listing Public reactions to death of Rachel Corrie and the deletion as a cleanup projection and a deletion review (it's actually at AFD) at Portal:Palestine/Opentask could be a issue? Since I was the one who nominated it for deletion, would it be appropriate to list it somewhere at Wikipedia:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration so that everyone collaborating on the topic can review? I consider Rachel Corrie a topic that affects both sides of the dispute but it seems Kasaalan disagrees. An outside view? -- Ricky81682 ( talk) 20:03, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Look, asking editors that share your viewpoint to come comment on an AfD is a common practice. I disapprove of it though, and wanted to say something to Kasaalan about it but didn't want to come off as rude. BTW, user Ceedjee is more biased towards the Israeli viewpoint as indicated on his userpage and I have seen many pro-Israeli users ask him for his input, so this user may not share Kasalaan's viewpoint. The right course of action in order to avoid escalation, Ricky (I know you to be a reasonable, sensible person), is to ask Kasalaan to refrain from selectively inviting people. If you were not sure on whether Kasaalan's actions were against policy and you are merely seeking advice, you should have made your post more general. Noticeboard isn't a helpdesk. Since we are casting suspicion on voters at the AfD, are you going to comment on Somno's involvement? I don't think Somno in particular is in the place to accuse Kasaalan of policy violations such as "votestacking and meatpuppetry". It is clear on Kasaalan's talk page that s/he had/have a dispute with Kasaalan over another unrelated article. I don't see Somno in the AfD, DRV, editing history. Perhaps s/he is trying to antagonize Kasaalan by voting delete for an article Kasaalan wishes to save? See the bad faith allegations can be thrown from both sides. I don't think they are useful and I hope people would stop making them. - Falastine fee Qalby ( talk) 19:13, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
- Very much appreciated, my motive is letting editors know about the voting beforehand. Since I created a deletion review, yet most of our dedicated page editors not voted, it turned on a contrary base. Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Artistic_Tributes_to_Rachel_CorrieWikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2009_April_16 Most users don't even read before they vote, and on behalf of their political views. So if you please have a look to the articles first. Last revision [1] copy of the article is available for your review.
- "My potential biases about this subject are : * a higher empathy for Jewish culture and history than for Arab or Islamic culture. * a higher empathy for Zionism than for Arab and Palestinian nationalisms. * a categorical rejection of antisemitism; a rejection of any form of racism as a rule and rejection of racism towards Arabs and/or Muslims ie Islamophobia.
Kasaalan, Philip Munger is irrelevant to this discussion - this is about your selective notification of others about an AFD. I have explained copyright violation to you several times, and it's off-topic here. Please feel free to look into my involvement - I tried to clean up a copyright-violating article in February, which unfortunately was created by Kasaalan. I have recently monitored his/her edits to protect the encyclopedia where possible, and I do not care about Rachel Corrie, Israel, Palestine or any of the related topics. I am just tired of Kasaalan's tendentious editing, insults, edit warring, POV pushing and possible votestacking, and I wish this situation were resolved. Somno ( talk) 05:11, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Also if you were right about "your might-be-canvas-concern" I should have also left invitation for overturn keep voter if I had vote-in-the-bag approach. Why do you think I didn't do that. I posted messages on active project and main page editors, along with public announcements. But I will copy Alansohn's overturn reason from previous deletion review.
Overturn Deep down inside, before I saw the details, my personal political biases on the subject were assuming that this couldn't possibly merit a standalone article; This had to be a blatantly POV fork. In reviewing the article under discussion, I see clear encyclopedic handling of a topic that has received far more media coverage than I ever realized, providing several dozen reliable and verifiable sources to support the material in the article. In looking at the parent article, there is a section on tributes, and a merge would largely overwhelm the parent article. This is exactly what forks are for. The consensus in the AfD was extremely muddled, and while there were calls for a merge, there seems to be no way that the results of the AfD could have been read to support any one result, and least of all merge. I would suggest using a lower case "t" in the second word of the title. Alansohn
Moreover if you really bother to do a search, you can easily see I picked the editors to be noted, from project and main page discussions, not from Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Artistic_Tributes_to_Rachel_Corrie keep voters, if that would be the case, I would also notify alanshon, mgm or yamanam. You make every effort to spread your concerns everywhere systematically, and how do you expect me to discuss it only here. I wanted this case to be discussed, by help of relevant editors, which are active main and project page editors apparently. Some dedicated delete or keep voters won't help the discussion anyway. Kasaalan ( talk) 12:16, 7 May 2009 (UTC) It is not right to discuss a page's existence with only afd watchers, and simply putting a link in the discussion page didn't lead much discussion about the content, but turned out a keep or delete voting. Kasaalan ( talk) 12:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Actually I can go on discussion fully, but after the related admin closed the discussion in 3 days, without letting people fully talk and get the issue over with approach, I am fully frustrated that, even if anyone ban me for my inexperienced yet good-intended public attempts to getting this issue discussed, I couldn't care less. So can the admin tell me what is the worst punishment I will get, if I say I have the worse intention on earth in history, while accusers are angels from heaven. 3 month ban, 6 month ban, article ban, anything but a full account deletion is fine by me, just get this over with. Yet I will never quit from my approach of inclusion instead censorship, creation over deletion, voicing minor voices over major ones, alternative media against mainstream ones, local yet notable artists over famous ones, and the ones that have been killed over the ones who killed them. I can clearly say, all the jurisdical process in wikipedia currently is highly bureucratic, non-productive and most of the case either a waste of time or dependant of the judgement of 1-2 admin most of the cases, so a better review system required. And wikipedia needs a better organisation, simpler, shorter and better guidelines, that can be fully read, understand and applied by every editor and admin, even in highly disputable cases. Bias and prejiduce applies by lots of the users in all the article page discussions that I have been participated over recent months. All the user and article dependent personal approachs to the guidelines are ultimately harmful, and can be considered as the leading threat that keeps wikipedia from reaching to a higher quality with better integrity. Kasaalan ( talk) 01:43, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
New user Mystery.sin ( talk · contribs) is repeatedly removing all references to the historical Armenian community from the article on their alleged hometown. I have warned this user about blanking and removal of content and also left him or her a note regarding their insistence that nobody is interested in historical figures. I don't want to get caught in an edit war and so would appreciate some extra eyes here. Thanks, Kafka Liz ( talk) 11:40, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
PinoyFilAmPride ( talk · contribs) has been dispruptive in this article for the past week. This user has also been distruptive in the talk page article, such as providing personal point of view information and other issues. The user has also removed academic reference in the information article with out providing a valid reason. Please help, investigate and resolve this problem. Thank you. IQfur01 talk 21:50, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
We've recently made some efforts to remove the strong anti-LTTE POV in Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, but some disagreements with the article persist. At Talk:Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam#Improved Intro, John harvey125 ( talk · contribs) first argued that organizations cannot commit crimes, only individuals of an organization. He has also claimed, much to my chagrin, that since LTTE members have not been convicted of committing murder and assassinations, then we cannot report the parties as being guilty. However, numerous sources have attributed the LTTE to a variety of attacks and assassinations over the last 25 years. I have argued that we are supposed to report what the sources are telling us, but John harvey125 believes that this is defamatory and against real life laws. Could someone please comment on the talk page? Nishkid64 ( Make articles, not wikidrama) 01:56, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Just wanna point out that everytime LTTE is mentioned in other articles its almost always followed by "they are proscribed as terrorists by 32 countries". this seems pointless and unnecessary and some sort of attempt to circumvent the WP:TERRORIST, I mean you could just about follow every mention of the sri lanka government with "they have been kicked out the UN Human Rights Council for gross human rights violations". I mean you can see how rediculous that is. -- Icemansatriani ( talk) 01:09, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
It would probably be easier to call them "terrorist organization" but that is of course POV, which is why it is attributed in that clumsy way. In most of the articles, the LTTE are mentioned because of their militant activities, which probably warrants the inclusion of some background info. In articles unrelated to war, the so-called terrorist nature of the LTTE probably need not be mentioned, but there do not seem to be that many of them. Internal structure of the LTTE probably would not require the "terrorist 32" info, neither would List of villages founded by the LTTE or similar articles. Jasy jatere ( talk) 08:07, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
GoSL are no angels either, but there is a difference in degree between being kicked out of HR council and being called "terrorist". The latter is much more notable than the former. Jasy jatere ( talk) 08:07, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
There is currently some discussion regarding whether the name "North Cyprus" should be included as an alternate name of Northern Cyprus on the article's talk page, as I have recently been informed on my own talk page. There seems to me in any event to be some justification for the use of the name, as some Google news hits here, google books hits here, and Google Scholar hits here, all clearly use the name "North Cyprus", even if not all of those hits use it necessarily as a proper name. Any reasonable input on the matter on the article's talk page would likely be welcomed. Thank you. John Carter ( talk) 19:45, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
In my view there are some problems at the Cornwall article, although i am the only one who appears to see it and everybody there would like to ignore my concerns. Cornwall is a county of England and has been part of England for 100s of years and this is not disputed by the vast majority of the population of Cornwall. The main problem at the moment is in the introduction where it currently states
My concern is the article is declaring Cornwall a "celtic nation" despite this not being a majority held or mainstream view and without valid neutral 3rd party sources. Now there is no doubt Cornwall has a rich celtic history and that organisations such as Celtic League (political organisation) and Celtic Congress consider Cornwall one of the 6 Celtic Nations, but these are political organisations with a clear interest in promoting a certain point of view. In my opinion the sentence does not even belong in the introduction, but the other editors on the article have refused to even allow an explanation as to WHO describes Cornwall as a Celtic Nation. Without that explanation, this seems grossly misleading and could be offensive to some. There also seems to be a problem at Celtic Nations where i am not the only one who has raised concerns about declaring a place like Cornwall a Celtic Nation, without proper explanation as to who has and what others think about it. At the moment because i am the only editor who seems to have a problem with the wording, it is impossible for me to make the changes with out them being reverted, so i placed some tags on the article but those are also continuing to be removed. Please can someone suggest what i should do next or should i simply leave the article the way it is if i think its misleading the reader? Thank you BritishWatcher ( talk) 09:32, 12 May 2009 (UTC) I have restored my post as the recent change which removed the problem has been undone and the editor responsible said i should see what the admins say here. BritishWatcher ( talk) 11:14, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
The interesting thing about your comments British watcher, is that although you feign objectivity with your calls for 3rd party sources etc etc, you are blatantly using this for your own particular poltical agenda. Your username and Union Flag with motto shout out your Unionist political views, to which you are entitled no doubt- yet render your comments on Cornwall, the Celtic nature of Cornwall and so on, completely and utterly biased and one sided. As a Cornishman, I could tear your argument about Cornwall being part of England to bits. You make assumption after assumption about what is mainstream view or not, based on what may I ask? Where are your facts? I ask myself if you have ever been to Kernow..oops, that's a bit too Celtic, Cornwall?
14.05.09
At the bottom of the Talk page for this article, a Wiki user makes comments saying that "for their own safety," Jews need to hide their Jewishness. (Apparently, this user pulled something similar on an article about Mila Kunis and the Adyghe people.) I'm new, and I'm wondering how to play this and if anything can be done.( DarkKnight613 ( talk) 19:54, 18 May 2009 (UTC))
This is related to the short thread "Little monkeys" close above. That part of it can be considered resolved. Unfortunately the bad feeling underlying it cannot.
There are multiple disputes among a number of editors, and particularly between two, over White Brazilian, German Brazilian, and so forth. These seem to reflect two points of view, which I think I can describe very simply here but about which I'll remain silent: those interested are free to work them out for themselves, and I'll avoid the risk of being accused of misinterpretation.
I first noticed complaints at WP:AN/I. I was a late arrival to this and noted the tiredness with which people greeted these complaints. At least one of the dismissive comments made on a complaint struck me as fatuous and I took the time to look at what was involved. I was surprised to see that some of the complaints were about apparently clearcut matters; see Template talk:Largest cities of Brazil.
The closest I have been to Brazil is Manhattan and I know very little about Brazil and its history. So I'm uneducated and uninformed, but I hope I'm open minded. I arrived with the intention of being evenhandedly sceptical and firm, and I hope that I am still fair. However, I've gradually come to respect the efforts of one of the two parties in this brouhaha and think I may be on the verge of losing patience with the other. I don't think that this would necessarily be bad. Still, if I did lose patience I'd probably be accused of bias. And so I invite another administrator to take a long look through Talk:White Brazilian and to step in. (Another reason: "RL" is about to take up a lot of my time.) -- Hoary ( talk) 03:49, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Voting or commenting on each segment of the Proposed guidelines in relation to remedy 13.1 of the recently closed West Bank - Judea and Samaria arbitration case. Please comment here on preferred usage in the West Bank/Judea and Samaria area, to determine consensus by July 13th 2009.
The more comments/votes/consensus, the better. We really need to firm up consensus by community input into some of these areas to reduce the drain on admin and editor resources in policing naming disputes. Casliber ( talk · contribs) 14:26, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
See [144] and all contribs. He is putting hoaxes on 2008 attacks on North Indians in Maharashtra even when we warned him. All warnings are gone from his talk. Some more bad eits also ocurred. See history
i hope its the right place ( WP:AIV asks for recent disruption and I don't smell a 3RR violation.) Hometech ( talk) 19:12, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
This article urgently needs an eye. I toned it down a bit, stating at the beginning that the story is an "allegation". I hope I've done it correctly, but I'm not an expert on the former Yugoslavia conflict. It does seem to be a very important issue and our article on it ought to be impeccably in line with NPOV policy. Itsmejudith ( talk) 14:44, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Is it Ok that almost half of the article is dedicated to "controversies", most of which are not even notable? For instance, allegations in Belorussian media were never officially confirmed, and their reliability is doubted even in Belarus. The Iranian image was never a controversy, because the Iranian government never objected to its inclusion. The only real controversy was the Armenian-Azerbaijani picture scandal, and it received enough coverage. It now seems that the controversy section is being expanded beyond any reasonable limit, as if the speculations in non-notable media are the most important info about one of the top 3 Eurovision 2009 entires. Grand master 12:23, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Following the conclusion of the recent Macedonia Arbcom case, there is now a new centralized discussion at Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Macedonia, to decide on the final page title for the Macedonia (country) article and to finalize a general guideline on how to refer to the country in other articles. Fresh input will be welcome. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:51, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
User Ninguém reported that Argentine "love to call Brazilians macaquitos (little monkeys in Spanish).
Systematically using the verbiage "afro-brasileiro" instead of negro is POVed: it is the Point of View that Brazilian culture is not essentially different from North-American culture, and that American usage can be employed in explaining it without further clarification and qualification. In this way, Brazil become a mere intellectual suburb of the United States, a country with no cultural autonomy, or - like our "hermanos" would love to point - a pack of macaquitos, always trying (and failing) to copy the intellectual fads in the metropolis. [145]
I think this is an ethnic issue, since this user is claiming that people from Argentina call people from Brazil of "little monkeys". This type of comments should be allowed to be posted in talk pages of articles. This is a mere disruption and offensive for both Argentine and Brazilians. Opinoso ( talk) 17:46, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
We need a few more eyes (again) on Greater and Lesser Tunbs ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), an article about a minor territorial dispute in the Persian Gulf. Two editors stubbornly revert-war to monopolise the article with the POV of their country, denying even the existence of a dispute (which, needless to say, is abundantly sourced and notable). This is very much a long-term problem and has been going on with interruptions for years. It has reached a point where further discussion seems senseless: these two editors simply do not want this project to be neutral; there is thus no basis for cooperative dispute resolution. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:55, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
This is a reference to something I've been trying to get changed over the past couple of days but I keep being reverted. The relevant paragraph currently reads:
The city of Jerusalem is of special importance to Jews, Muslims and Christians as it is the home of sites that are pivotal to their religious beliefs, such as the Old City that incorporates the Western Wall and the Temple Mount, the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Other landmarks of religious importance are located in the West Bank, among them the birthplace of Jesus and Rachel's Tomb in Bethlehem, and the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron.
My issue that all the sites mentioned lie in East Jerusalem or the West Bank. Neither of these Occupied Territories are generally regarded as part of Israel and therefore should not be mentioned in this section without qualification. There have been numerous UN motions in both the security council and general assembly on this matter and most Western nations regard the final fate of Jerusalem as a matter to be settled. For this reason, it is my view that the unqualified inclusion of these sites in an article on Israel carries with it an implication that they are in that country and therefore violates WP:NPOV by giveing WP:Undue weight to a nationalist position. My last three edits (one each for 20th, 21st and 22nd of this month) are attempted fixes. I've tried approaches such as describing the Old City as "administered by Israel since the Six Day War" but keep on being reverted with the reverters either stating baldly that the Old City is in Israel, nitpicking about one part of East Jerusalem (Mount Scopus) being already Israeli pre-67, or claiming that the mention of the occupied territories as an issue in another section is sufficient. In all cases the text qualifying the implication that these sites are in Israel has been removed. I don't think the text as it stands is acceptable but the discussion thread I started Talk:Israel#Religious_sites_in_Old_City_are_not_internationally_recognised_as_being_in_Israel has received no response. Therefore I feel the need to escalate to this board.-- Peter cohen ( talk) 16:10, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Originally, I was going to go to ANI but this issue is big. Mass rape in the Bosnian War has a section that was reinserted even though it was a strong BLP violation: Individuals convicted of war crimes related to mass rape. Even though there is no such thing as "mass rape", there is a list for this neologism. Furthermore, the list is not an attempt at fairness, neutrality, or anything. It is a part of a great claim that Serbs, not individuals but the whole ethnicity, committed "mass rape". Ottava Rima ( talk) 18:29, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
The Centralized discussion set up to decide on a comprehensive naming convention about Macedonia-related naming practices is now inviting comments on a number of competing proposals from the community. Please register your opinions on the RfC subpages 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.
Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Reporting IP 69.116.12.93 for deleting references to Armenian and Greek ethnic conflict in Turkey in 20th century. Requesting comment and administrator action. Thanks! Jaybird vt ( talk) 01:55, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
This is in regard of the article "List of cities by time of continuous habitation". The location keeps getting changed by diferent parties from Israel to Palestine to Israel/Palestine to "see status of Jerusalem" etc... East Jerusalem is considered by the international community as part of the occupied territories of Palestine and hence the location should indicate such as issue. I believe this needs a resolution.
Yes, I was hoping for some sort of lock on the editting of the location, to change the location to something that's more internationally accepted such as Israel/Palestine or a link to "the status of Palestine". I am not sure if that's doable, but i sure there is a way to make sure that the location doesn't keep getting editted to something that suits the editor's Point of view! -- 02:49, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
This is a notice of a request for arbitration I initiated to try to force a centralised discussion of a roving content dispute. Comments welcome. (I started it at a time that really wasn't the most practical from my own POV so am being a bit slow at issuing notices and deciding who to add as parties, but hopefully will be catching up this week.)-- Peter cohen ( talk) 09:58, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
I think an administrative eye and eprhaps action could be useful regarding recent edits to this section. This edit for example is captioned "rv unRS" and removes material referenced to 13 different sources some of which (Turkish weekly and the Indo-Asian News Service, for example) certainly striek me as reliable.-- Peter cohen ( talk) 22:17, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
There is an edit war currently escalating as regards the composer Aram Khachaturian: he was born on the territory of Georgia in the family with Armenian roots. From yesterday on I spotted more than 10 corrections of the article opening from "Soviet-Georgian" to "Soviet-Armenian". My attempt to [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Aram_Khachaturian#Proposal_of_a_compromise mediate and to elaborate a more neutral wording] was not accepted. Alaudo ( talk) 09:00, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
Over the last several days a major incident has occurred which puts Wikipedia’s neutrality concerning the Israel-Palestine conflict in question and on the line. It deals with the creation of the Anti-Israel lobby in the United States, [147] as well as a non-discussed page move [148], which changes the Israel lobby in the United States to the Pro-Israel lobby in the United States [149]. These major changes are the work of a single editor, using largely biased and one-sided references and great amounts of WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. Because this is growing rapidly, it is beyond what any set of editors can correct, and must be discussed at an admin level and corrected.
The SYNTH, appears to revolved around the assumption that any criticism of the Israeli government/policy equals being “anti-Israeli”. This is not the case generally (though those may exist at the fringe); It is more accurately opposion to particular ideologies within that body politic. Is synonymous with saying that any American or foreigner who disagrees with US government policy is “anti-American”? This is ridiculous on its face.
To do this quickly, there are two quick examples included in the "anti" article I can provide, which will refute some of the new article’s SYNTH. The first is WRMEA, which states on its ‘about’ page, “The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs does not take partisan domestic political positions. As a solution to the Palestinian-Israeli dispute, it endorses U.N. Security Council Resolution 242´s land-for-peace formula, supported by seven successive U.S. presidents. In general, the Washington Report supports Middle East solutions which it judges to be consistent with the charter of the United Nations and traditional American support for human rights, self-determination, and fair play.” [150] This it their official stated position; it is not “anti-Israel”, though may be seen by some as such. That is not NPOV; that is POV’d synth. The second example is the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, which states its position regarding the Middle East as “Encouraging a balanced U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East.” [151] This likewise is not by neutral definition “anti-Israel.” This article must be discussed and should be deleted immediately; it is only one biased side of a very complicated issue. I can see lfew other neutral alternatives.
The undiscussed name-change for the Pro-Israel lobby in the United States, is based on one new reference which notes that particular phrase being “calculated” as the "mildest" opposition. It does not say that the ref is by a columnist that has strong pro-Israeli credentials (it will take me a while to find that RS). I should note that the ref was added by the same editor and has been accepted; I myself improved its grammar and have no argument with the thought. That however, did not mean that it was accepted as neutral and is sufficient to move the page.
This issue is of extreme importance and must be dealt with quickly and effectively. Regards, CasualObserver'48 ( talk) 02:44, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Please see section in question here ► RATEL ◄ 15:42, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
The article on Roald Dahl has long had a section on his anti-Semitic remarks. It was there before I reached the article; however, I contributed to the section, by looking through the biography of him by literary scholar Jeremy Treglown, which I happened to own, and by finding an interview from shortly before his death where he seemed to admit to having become anti-Semitic.
Every now and then, a user would try to delete or alter the section. Their argument was that his statements were anti-Israel, not anti-Jewish. I disagreed, pointing out that his most notorious remarks were specifically directed at Jews, though they were framed in the context of his views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I've seen many famous people accused of racism or anti-Semitism, and I've rarely seen a more clear-cut case than Dahl. To deny it is ludicrous, effectively denying the ordinary definition of words. It should be noted that the biographer Treglown, while suggesting that Dahl's grievances with Israel (during the Lebanon War in 1982) were justified, still unhesitatingly called Dahl an anti-Semite.
A while back, a user named Ratel came to the page. We argued for a while, but finally reached an agreement on how the section should look. Both of us compromised a little, and I don't think either of us were satisfied with the final product, but we were willing to accept it. Part of the disagreement was over the section's title. It was originally called simply "Antisemitism." Others wanted it to be called "Allegations of Antisemitism," but those of us who think Dahl's remarks were clearly anti-Semitic find the idea of it being a mere "allegation" insulting. For a while, I had the section titled "Antisemitic remarks," to make it clear that the article wasn't casting a judgment on Dahl himself, but simply reporting on what he said. Ratel and I eventually agreed on calling it "Literary Review controversy," because most of what was included in the section sprang from that one incident, though Treglown's biography mentioned other incidents.
Ratel put into the section information about Dahl's views on the Lebanon War, and I agreed to include a quote from a friend of Dahl's who defended him from the antisemitism charge (sort of). It stayed in that form for a while, but recently we've begun arguing again over it, and I feel we're at an impasse. The record of our arguments can be found on the Talk Page to the article on Dahl, and I'm going to invite Ratel to this page, to provide his/her side to the story. marbeh raglaim ( talk) 19:54, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
The links you provide only show that Felicity Dahl did not authorize the biography; they do not say she accused it of being full of lies. The book has been positively reviewed in many credible media outlets ( New York Times: "Mr. Treglown has produced a scrupulously fair-minded and revealing, if hardly affectionately intimate, account"; The Independent: "Jeremy Treglown treats his complex subject with admirable objectivity"). In any case, Treglown's book provides several sources for the incidents discussed, and these can be corroborated. Here are the secondary sources he mentions:
The New Statesman, Aug. 26, 1983
Sebastian Faulks, The Daily Telegraph, Sep. 18, 1983
files of the Literary Review
He also mentioned interviews with Sir Isaiah Berlin, Robert Gottlieb, Brough Girling, and David Wolton.
Your statement that Dahl's views never made their way into his fiction isn't true; his book Sometime Never reportedly featured a negatively stereotyped Jewish character, and "Madame Rosette" describes its title character as a "filthy old Syrian Jewess." The Literary Review fiasco was not an isolated incident; he not only made the "trait in the Jewish character" remark later, he also accused Jews of being cowards, and falsely claimed hardly any of them served in the British Forces during WWII. Treglown's book claimed he had a history of telling anti-Semitic jokes and engaging in stereotypes. None of this is mentioned in the Wikipedia article, because only the Literary Review incident received wide publicity, but to say he had no pattern of anti-Semitic behavior is simply false.
Your contention that Dahl's explicitly and undeniably anti-Jewish remarks constitute only "very flimsy evidence" of anti-Semitism is absurd. All you're doing is making excuses for them, then hiding under the "notability" criterion as an excuse for removing this material from the article and depriving readers of the opportunity to judge the evidence for themselves. Numerous Wikipedia articles of public figures discuss accusations of anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry, and most of the time these are based on far more ambiguous remarks than what Dahl said. I have bent over backwards to help make the description of these controversies as fair and objective as possible, but they do deserve to be mentioned, because the perception of Dahl as anti-Semitic did affect the public view of him before and after his death. marbeh raglaim ( talk) 05:00, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
There has been an RfC started at Talk:Jerusalem#RFC: Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. A few uninvolved admins watching over and stopping any inanity would be appreciated. nableezy - 21:09, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
As anyone can tell by checking my contribs, I edit a lot of Palestine-related articles, and have for over two years now. Lately, its been confirmed for me that Palestine is treated differently than every other disputed political entity here at Wikipedia. Though there have been incremental improvements over the last couple of months, with the restoration of the article State of Palestine and the creation of Outline of Palestine, serious issues remain.
Currently, there is an issue at the State of Palestine regarding the infobox there, which was added by an IP. Its being reverted out by an editor on the basis that there is no country of Palestine. Having been alerted to the presence of pages on other disputed political entites (like Abkhazia, Northern Cyprus and Somaliland which were cited as examples in an RfC on Jerusalem), I've noticed all of them get better treatment of their sovereignty claims than Palestine. While Palestine is recognized by more than 100 countries, and Northern Cyprus only by one (Turkey), somehow its allowed to include things on its page that Palestine's page can only dream of.
The problem, as I see it, is that editors who oppose the existence of Palestine, are basically given free rein to impose their POV all over Wikipedia. Imagine if a bunch of Georgian nationalists kept arriving at the Abkhazia page to delete the infobox claiming it was not a country, or that it should be redirected elsewhere or deleted. Imagine if Palestinian nationalists blanked the infobox of Israel saying its a state with limited recognition. People would treat them as trolls, not good faith editors. And yet in the case of Palestine, this behaviour by those opposed to its existence is tolerated, and even sometimes encouraged. We are told we have to bow to consensus, instead of having people called out for imposing their POVs when no such imposition is warranted or fair.
I just had to get this out of my system really. I really do hope that people who read this board will begin to take notice of what is going on in the case of Palestine. Tiamut talk 16:34, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Note: This issue affects Provisional IRA campaign 1969–1997 and Provisional Irish Republican Army.
Hi there, I'm following the advice of User:Durova and WP:DR in an effort to help get the Provisional Irish Republican Army out of protection, so that editing can continue. At issue is a sentence recently added to the lead IRA campaign 1969–1997&diff=306487413&oldid=306486375 here. The sentence is:
This resulted in this discussion and something of an edit war, which was put to a stop when User:Nja247 protected the page. As things stand now, it seems that User:O_Fenian is unwilling to engage in discussion about how to reword the sentence for as long as m:The Wrong Version is protected, and there is no consensus to revert to the version of the article without the contentious sentence during the dispute.
Which leaves us at an impasse.
I'd like some assistance to come to the article to help the editors reach consensus, get the new sentence (whatever it might be) in place so that the article can be unlocked. Lot 49a talk 16:36, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
As I have repeated maybe three times now, there is a proposal to replace the current sentence with this:
Mooretwin ( talk) 23:03, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
The question is very simple, how will the removal of information that is incorrect prevent the matter from being discussed? This is not about the wrong version being protected, it's about misleading information being removed pending didcussion. So stop stonewalling! I'm not really frustrated by the situation, I just don't agree with rewarding edit warring. -- Domer48 'fenian' 07:18, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
The sentence should be replaced with the reasonable proposal mentioned above by Mooretwin, its important information which belongs in the introduction, as long as it can be well sourced. I can quite understand why certain editors would not want such information so clearly presented. BritishWatcher ( talk) 08:51, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm not suggesting that the origional version be put back in, I'm simply saying that the incorrect and misleading sentence be taken out. Unlike you, I'm not fine with this misleading information being left in during the discussion. Removing the sentence is not coming down on the side of any version, as both will have then been removed. Your suggestion that by leaving misleading information in will have us all work on an acceptable version as quickly as we can is bizarre. If the sentence was removed, remember, one sentence, a sentence that is incorrect and misleading is removed, there is no need for a {{ POV}}, the article can still remain locked, and we can still work on alternative wording! So once again, what purpose can leaving this sentence in possibly have on the discussion? -- Domer48 'fenian' 21:28, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Please stop with the nonsense! There was no consensus for the edit warring POV IP’s edit, period! You locked the article, and have dug your heels in, claiming that the lock is arbitrary. Arbitrary can also mean uninformed, illogical, and capricious which sums up your attitude and rational quite well. Removing the information which is incorrect and misleading would in no way prevent discussion, and no matter how you try to Wikilawyer your way out of this fact the more pig headed you stance becomes. We have policies on this project such as WP:OR, WP:V and WP:NPOV and on them we have consensus! Most of us also agree that we should never reward edit warring IP’s by having articles locked! But like I said, that is something most of us agree on, but not all obviously. -- Domer48 'fenian' 18:19, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Pointing out your aversion to the use of common sense and after having the issue clearly pointed out to you and then rewarding of this disruption is not considered moaning by rational and reasonable editors. Your pig headedness in my opinion which allows readers to be misled deliberately is just as much an issue with me as the edit summary and edit itself. You’re in a position to replicate this type idiocy, and while we all have to accept that we will have edit warring IP’s, we should not have to accept Admin’s who encourage them! Edit warring to remove correctly sourced information, should never be rewarded! -- Domer48 'fenian' 07:58, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
Hell, I have complain about user named User:Lida Vorig. She puts small contributions but I found she is adding a lot of unrelevant info to Azerbaijani articles by disinforming the people due she is armenian and got negative views about Azerbaijan.
1st case could be in this article http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Huseyn_Arablinski&action=history and writing comment that Seems to fit his personality 2nd case, writing that Shusha is not part of Azerbaijan, despite whole UN and world counts as this city is part of Azerbaijan. It is questioning country's soverigny. See for yourself http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Latif_Karimov&action=history 3rd case, removing the word "Azerbaijani" from categories about Azerbaijani people by disinforming the nation http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Masud_ibn_Davud&diff=prev&oldid=310307129 http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Mahmud_ibn_Sa%27ad&diff=prev&oldid=310306985 4th case, adding again not notable info, saying Eynulla Fatullayev is kidnapped, actually this stuff never happened to him. http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Category:Kidnapped_Azerbaijani_people&diff=prev&oldid=310315717
This user is previously warned by user:CaliforniaAliBaba for adding speedy deletions to Azerbaijani!!
I think there is enough evidence to ban her from editing Azerbaijani articles.-- NovaSkola ( talk) 22:14, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
The article is about a massacre of Poles by Ukrainians during WWII. The article creator appears to be Polish. Most but not all of the editors !voting to delete appear to be Ukrainian. And things seem to be getting heated. Edward321 ( talk) 14:42, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
Albanian nationalism is an article full of highly biased claims like "These ideologies and Greater Albania have proponents that are not only nationalists but criminals[9] and terrorists[10] involved[11] in drug trafficking, Human trafficking and other activities motivated by profit [12].". It is completely fallacious to identify an entire nation as criminals and terrorist. Even if there are references citing such claims (there are not) it is not encyclopedic to make such claims.
It is also misleading to cite Us Gov. listing KLA as a terrorist organisation. What their website actually says about KLA is this: "They established a parallel government funded mainly by the Albanian diaspora. When this movement failed to yield results, an armed resistance emerged in 1997 in the form of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA). The KLA's main goal was to secure the independence of Kosovo."
(state.gov). There is also a different, more neutral POV in
Greek nationalism,
Serbian nationalism and other Balkan states nationalisms that should be also present in
Albanian nationalism.
AnnaFabiano (
talk) 14:31, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
I would like to seek help in resolving all the nastiness going on here. There is alot of POV warring by editors with a history in the subject. I don't want to point out specifics as that would be just a list of personal attacks, however we can clearly see bias here among the editors. Help????? Triplestop x3 14:34, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Dear admin
Kindly remove all sort of pictures relating to Prophet Muhammad PBUH as we muslims do not consider it as an appropriate deed. There has been numerous petitions around internet but nothing has been done. Please review your policy as it is hurting moral and religious values of millions of muslims around the world Regards —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.120.115.192 ( talk • contribs) 06:28, 5 September 2009
Can someone take a look at Separatist movements of Pakistan, I think a certain viewpoint is being presented here. It would be good if some could take a look at this. Thanks Pahari Sahib 08:00, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Not sure this is quite the right board.
There is strong disagreement as to the name of the article currently at Yue Chinese. Several alternatives have been suggested, with some editors adamantly opposed to each one. Perhaps we can get some outside views?
The problem is that the primary meaning of the name "Cantonese", per the OED and other dictionaries, is "of or concerning Canton", with Canton being the city of Guangzhou. Re. language, "Cantonese" means two things: (1) the dialect of Canton and environs, which has spread to Hong Kong and Macau, and (2) the primary branch of Chinese, cladistically a separate language, to which this Canton-ese dialect belongs. This is frequently called "Yue" in the linguistic literature, especially when dab'ing from Canton-ese, and includes dialects such as Taishanese which are often contrasted with Canton-ese. The phrase "Yue Chinese" is taken from Ethnologue, which has long been used as the default source for language information on WP.
In the opinion of myself and several other editors (including at least one Cantonese speaker), the term "Cantonese" is unacceptably ambiguous as the name of the article, since it more frequently means "Canton-ese", and indeed some Yue dialects may not be covered by the name Cantonese even in its broader use. The primary dispute appears to be from some Cantonese speakers, who are adamant that the term "Yue" is unacceptable, because it comes from the Mandarin pronunciation of the lect rather than the Cantonese pronunciation, even though only the Mandarin form is widely seen in English. Many subsequent arguments against this word would appear to be motivated by this objection. There are, however, Taishanese speakers who counter-argue that "Cantonese" is not acceptable, because in their view Taishanese is not a dialect of Cantonese. Others simply find the current title to be awkward. In English, both "Yue" and "Cantonese" are used for this topic; however, we have two articles on WP, one on Cantonese = Canton-ese, currently at Canton dialect, and the one on Cantonese = Yue that is being debated at Yue Chinese. Cantonese is currently a dab page, partially because there's one faction that wants it for Yue, and another that wants it for Canton-ese.
This being a variety of Chinese, both the words 'language' and 'dialect' will be unacceptable to some editors, making the obvious solution of "Cantonese language" vs. "Cantonese dialect" untenable. (There have recently been outraged arguments that Yue is / is not a 'language', even though that is not the current dispute. This problem does not extend to the name Canton dialect, since everyone accepts that as a dialect.)
Yue also has a secondary meaning, of the Yue peoples who populated the region prior to the arrival of the Chinese, and their language. Dab'ing the article from such subjects is also relevant.
I moved the article to its current Ethnologue-based title, which is also the default at WP:Chinese naming conventions (cf Mandarin Chinese, Wu Chinese, etc.), after strenuous objections to its previous location at 'Cantonese'. kwami ( talk) 00:50, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
I've corrected some information in the Muhammad of Ghor article, concerning the ethnic (or race), religion sect, place of death, family relation, etc. There are these 2 users ( User:Adil your who is Pakistani and User:Tajik) who are reverting it back to the totally false version, they claim that my corrections are POVs. How is it a POV if sources such as Encyclopedia Britannica, Columbia University, Nancy Dupree (an American specialist on history who spent over 30 years inside Afghanistan studying the history of that nation) from Kabul University, Encarta, John Walsh from Shinawatra University, and others all mention the same exact thing I've add into the article? Can someone please help settle this and keep eye on the page or protect it from these 2 disruptive users? I'm trying not to break the 3RRs.-- 119.73.6.155 ( talk) 04:55, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Could some additional eyes be turned on Creativity Alliance? It is a White Supremacist organization with an editor who thinks that Wikipedia is the place to present the organization's mission statement, holidays and other information that is not supported by third party sources. Thanks, Abductive ( reasoning) 07:00, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
There is a discussion on the talk page that is rapidly acquiring overtones of national conflict. The edits at issue are probably best summarized in terms of this diff, and there has been a discussion on the talk page to which fresher eyes and opinions would be most welcome. Ray Talk 05:00, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
There is some ongoing, rather heated, discussion about the use of these terms in the Judaism article, which has recently been protected because of this discussion and the accompanying reversions. Any input which might help resolve the situationn is more than welcome. John Carter ( talk) 15:33, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
"Asian fetish"/Asiaphile/Asiaphilia is a neologism that appears to be used to refer to liking Asians and/or Asian things and also applied to primarily white men with a sexual interest in Asian women that appears to be characterized as a form of racist love or sexual objectification or sexual fetish. It has been a controversial article with thirteen talk page archives and five Articles for Deletion discussions, several related AfDs, several 3RR reports and an appearance of unreported further edit warring in the article history, Wikietiquette reports, RfCs, etc. The talk page, 3rr reports, etc. discuss how (I am not sure I can adequately or correctly summarize, but I shall try): (1) the (perceived/actual) interest of some/all white men in Asian women might or might not be racist on the part of those white men (2) the characterization of the (perceived/actual) interest of some/all white men in Asian women may be a racist aspersion cast by some Asian men (3) that the concern about a perceived/actual) interest of some/all white men in Asian women may be a racist suspicion by Asian women, etc. This article could use some new eyes with expert knowledge/mediation/constructive input; I've posted to several places seeking community help. (Other ideas just about where to seek help are also welcome). Article was created 06:51, 20 April 2004 by an IP. There are, last that I checked, 122 watchers and about 400 daily page views on average. Has never reached much of a consensus regarding the subject, content or sources AFAIK. Concerns touch on many points, WP:V, WP:RS, WP:OR, WP:Synthesis, WP:NPOV, WP:NOT#ESSAY, WP:NOTDICTIONARY, WP:WAR, WP:DISRUPT, and probably some others. Posting here because chauvinist and nationalist sentiment may (or may not) be one of the factors preventing consensus, for the reasons identified above. I defer to your judgment as to whether it is appropriate for this noticeboard. Thank you! Шизомби ( talk) 04:05, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
few months ago he/she already had waenings, now and again
Revision history of Demonology:
(cur) (prev) 04:05, 9 January 2010 Ian.thomson (talk | contribs) (21,632 bytes) (Getting rid of redirecting link.) (undo)
(cur) (prev) 03:07, 9 January 2010 Idot (talk | contribs) (21,706 bytes) (now it is not a redidirect!) (undo)
(cur) (prev) 16:31, 8 January 2010 Ian.thomson (talk | contribs) (21,632 bytes) (Removing a link that redirects here.) (undo)
(cur) (prev) 08:55, 8 January 2010 Idot (talk | contribs) m (21,706 bytes) (orpho) (undo)
(cur) (prev) 08:53, 8 January 2010 Idot (talk | contribs) (21,705 bytes) (agree) (undo)
(cur) (prev) 04:46, 7 January 2010 Ian.thomson (talk | contribs) (21,632 bytes) (This article isn't about the demonologist class in some games.) (undo)
(cur) (prev) 03:35, 7 January 2010 Idot (talk | contribs) (21,663 bytes) (Undid revision 336140734 by Gordon Ecker (talk)) (undo)
(cur) (prev) 04:28, 6 January 2010 Gordon Ecker (talk | contribs) m (21,632 bytes) (removing from the character classes category) (undo)
the sitation is following: 1. the Demonologist is a character class in D&D 2. Ian.thomson removes any info abot that fact from Demonology and Demonologist articles which is a kind of vandalizm ( Idot ( talk) 03:35, 10 January 2010 (UTC))
There is an ongoing neutrality dispute. Because only few of us are involved, and because I have a reason to be skeptical regarding their good intentions, I decided to ask the help of third party. I just want the opinion of others on this highly controversial article.-- Mladifilozof ( talk) 00:12, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Recently the article Shusha ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) has suffered from editwarring over proper usage of the word 'Tatar'. The relevant background could be found at Talk:Armenian–Tatar massacres 1905-1907, Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions/Archive 12#Proposed addition and Talk:Shusha#Photo attribution. Since associated RfC turned ineffective, an ultimate solution is highly appreciated now. Brand t] 16:55, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
If the editors at the article talk page can register their agreement (or disagreement) here, I'd appreciate it. A Stop at Willoughby ( talk) 05:14, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
The label most readily used by the Russians to refer to the Caucasian and Central Asian Muslims was Tatar, driving from the Turkic Tatar tribes whom the Russians had encountered centuries earlier. [source: Azeri women in transition: women in Soviet and post-Soviet Azerbaijan by Farideh Heyat, Central Asia Research Forum Series. London and New York: Routledge, 2002. p. 51]
Britannica 1911 edition: The Tatars of the Caucasus seem to be for the most part Azerbaijan Turks mingled with Armenian, Georgian, Lesghian and other blood. But the name is often loosely applied to any Mahommedan Caucasian tribe.
In 1897 'Tatars'-which officially included most Muslim groups... Source: Socialism in Georgian Colors: The European Road to Social Democracy, 1883-1917, by Stephen F. Jones, Harvard University Press (2005) p. 19
So the problem is also in the fact that Tatar did not necessarly mean a Turkic speaking person, but was applied to most Muslims in the region by Russians. Claiming Azeri is retrieving more information from the source than it contains, it amounts to original research. While it's true that probably it was a Turkic speaking person due to the demography, more than raising this fact would be original research.
The discussion was moved to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration/Current Article Issues#Articles related to Palestinian statehood per User:Taprobanus's suggestion. Please make your comments there. DrorK ( talk) 09:20, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
Please take a look at this article with long standind and ongoing dispute between pro-Baltic and pro-Russian editors. Any RFC and mediation procedures proved ineffective (meditation has been rejected by the pro-Baltic side [154]). Currently the page represents Baltic point of view as the only correct with some users argue that Russian sources sould be completely removed because "Russia is underdeveloped authoritarian country" [155] with accusations of extremism and nationalim from both sides.-- Dojarca ( talk) 01:22, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
Editor Galassi is inserting he was significant proponent of the Blood libel against Jews into Vladimir Purishkevich article. Galassi supports this with two refs.
Attention from uninvolved editors needed. DonaldDuck ( talk) 06:32, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I found the above in the articles in need of wikification, but I think it needs an eye casting over its neutrality, especially in regard to the sourcing. Itsmejudith ( talk) 13:37, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
In article Anna (name) user Bookworm857158367 ( talk · contribs) said that name Marianna is in use in Russia. But it is not true. I'm Russian. I've read many books about Russian history and Russian classics literature and i've never heard about any Russian named Marianna. I heard about Americans, Mexicans, even Britons but never Russians. To prove my poont of view i've found few links. On these pages listed all the most popular and even rare names of Russian culture. These links are posted on discussion page Talk:Anna (name). But user Bookworm857158367 ( talk · contribs) cant prove his point of view. He told about Marianne Pistohlkors who lived in Russia but she wasnt Russian - she was Latvian. -- RussianSpy ( talk) 21:41, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
User:Kostja is going around adding the following [156] [157] [158] [159] [160] [161] [162] [163] [164] [165] [166] [167] [168] [169] [170] [171] to the caption of an ethnographic map from the 19th century, on the grounds that it is sourced. Yet upon reading his source, it is quite evident that it doesn't say what he claims, namely that the cartographer A. Synvet. is "pro-Greek". He is clearly misquoting the source. I have already brought this up with the user, but got (predictably) nowhere. Thus, it would be nice to get input from some uninvolved editors to gauge where community consensus lies. Athenean ( talk) 03:55, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
Off course I reinserted it. It's unacceptable to add a reference about a map, in particular that of Stanford's, in being pro-Greek and then to edit warring in the same article for not allowing another reference about Vidal Ladlache's maps for being pro-Bulgarian. And after finally succeeding to remove the pro-Bulgarian ref about Ladlache atlas with pure edit warring tactics, now you come again and by clearly misquoting a source, you are trying to push another characterization for another mapmaker, this time A.Synvet, in the same article while you continue denying to permit such a ref for the V.L. maps. What you really want Kostja? This is a ridiculous situation and nobody can accept it. Can't you understand that? Anyway I agree with Apcbg. It is a matter of time to find a ref characterizing pro-something every single ethnological map of the era. Not to mention what will happen when we will find for the first time two conflicting characterizations for the same map or mapmaker. One in being "pro-something" and another "neutral", which is also a matter of time. Whenever we have different points of view to present in an article about the ethnological situation two-three different maps presenting the respective points of view are by themselves enough. This fashion feeling with pro-something refs the captions Kostja already introduced in some 10 articles is leading to nowhere than continuing conflicts.-- Factuarius ( talk) 11:13, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
It seems most rational people agree that all so called ethnographic maps of the Balkans prepared in the eve of the Russo-Turkish and Balkan Wars by foreign authors (foreign meaning people not representing the Ottoman Government under which these territories situated, and the only able and capable body of conducting any type of meaningful census and population classification) are a simple pretext to illustrate a more favourable ethnic disposition and thus justification for grabbing Ottoman lands in favour of one or other neighbouring Balkan fraction. Having this in mind I find Kostja’s behaviour of going about in dozens of articles and marking certain maps only as pro-Greek and leaving those that are pro-Bulgarian untouched as just a pro-Bulgarian POV pushing. This kind of behaviour achieves nothing and leads only to edit-wars. I find it strange that after being recently banned from Wikipedia Kostja does not seem to have any intention of changing his editing behaviour. Quite funny that e.g., Synvet and Stanford are pro-Greek, but e.g., the maps of Thrace by the linguist Lyubomir Miletich are not POV…the man claims to have single-handedly counted the whole population of Thrace even doe during 1912 Bulgaria had no control over the area and in fact for the next 2 years the territory in question was a stage for a savage war. Since Synvet and Stanford contradict Miletich for the ethnic composition of Thrace and the legend of Bulgarian ethnic domination of the area Kostja in an orderly Bulgarian fashion for historical correction has marked them as pro-Greek lol...keep up the good work Hittit ( talk) 14:50, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
Hello
I would like to ask your opinion about the format that should be used in the lead sections of the articles about localities from Romania with an important Hungarian population
From the Romanian Constitution: http://www.cdep.ro/pls/dic/site.page?den=act2_2&par1=1#t1c0s0a13 "In Romania, the official language is Romanian". Also, According to Local Public Administration Bill (promulgated in 2001): "Where over 20 of the population is of an ethnic minority, all documents of a legal character will be published in the ethnic minorities' mother tongue.".
My opinion is that according to wiki rules Hungarian names should be listed before for example German names, but still in parantheses, in Italics: Romanian_Name ( Hungarian: Hungarian_Name, German: German_Name)
I just want to respect the standard naming policy WP:PLACE, Foreign language names and first sentence usage rule
Sorry if it wasn't a good idea to open this thread here (
Umumu (
talk) 17:05, 25 March 2010 (UTC))
Trakai Voivodeship is a historical, geographical entity (it existed from 1413-1795, first in the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, and after Union of Lublin 1569 still in the Grand Duchy in the federal state of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth as one of the voivodeships of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth). Unfortunately there are no clearly established name in the English literature for the terms related to the administrative division of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth; voivodeships are sometimes reffered to as palatinates or provinces, and geographical names like Trakai are referred to in spellings of various nations once controlling the territory). There are very few English language sources making reference to this entity (a discussion long ago at WikiProject History and Geography of Poland has concluded that voivodeship is the proffered term to palatinate or province, and this has not been challenged). Trakai is a Lithuanian name (the city of Trakai is currently in Lithuania), and Troki is a Polish name variant of the city. Lithuanian was not an official language in the Commonwealth; Polish was (see Polish-Lithuanian_Commonwealth#Languages_of_the_Commonwealth); the historical name in official language of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth - Polish - was województwo trockie). It is likely that the province has been referred to in Ruthenian language (as before the 1697 the official language of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was the Ruthenian language, albeit Polish was increasingly used due to polonization after Union of Lublin in 1569).
A recent discussion and vote about renaming Trakai Voivodeship (not a single source has been found to support this name) to a slightly better referenced Troki Voivodeship (supported by three references in English, all three however written by Polish authors publishing in Engish) has generated a stalemate on talk (with voters relatively clearly divided among national lines). Lithuanian editors prefer Trakai despite no English source supporting this name, Polish editors support Polish name, and the discussion is dominated by the "Poles vs Lithuanians" attitude. The stalemate, if continued, will result in keeping the ORish name Trakai Voivodeship. No side has suggested using the Ruthenian spelling (personally I am not even sure what it would be, and I've found no reference to it in the sources I've read). Input and mediation by neutral editors, who would attempt to mediate between Polish and Lithuanian editors, is requested.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 20:07, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
User:DSuran has been attempting to edit the IPKF article to try to portray it as a predominantly "Sikh" Force, and/or as a sperate entity from the rest of the "Indian" forces in the IPKF, subsequently labeling the Sikh units as Special Forces, and has deleted the Hindi script from the article lead and ifobox. All his edits are factually blatantly wrong, and smacks of Sikh Nationalism, and is moreover very PoV. Can somebody please have a look since I am do not wish to deal with this if I introduce my own biases. rueben_lys ( talk · contribs) 11:44, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
The issue in my opinion is not anything to do with Sri Lanka at all. It is more to do with views on Sikh/Punjabi contribution to the Indian forces etc and can be pushed on to "righting historical wrongs". Have a look at Dsuran's earlier edits. I wrote half the page (if not more) on the IPKF, and the references listed in the bottom are mostly journal articles or reliable websources on the Indian military. DSuran, on the other hand, has only ever edited or made unreferenced edits making generalising and factually wrong content that attempted to portray the IPKF as a "Sikh force", or the Sikh Light Infantry as a force seperate from the Indian Army, and now that it is a "Special Force". His last edit was inclusion of Punjabi text to the name for IPKF (which I think is to redress the seeming bias of having hindi text there).The bias I hope will be self-evident. Also see IPKF history for a previous edit conflict with DSuran to see what I am saying. rueben_lys ( talk · contribs) 16:23, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Content Problem:
The anti-Americanism article labels people as anti-American who don't accept that label for themselves. Typically, it does this to people of cultures who aren't equally represented on Wikipedia. It has a section that consists almost entirely of calling people of other cultures anti-American. There is no way there would be a consensus on any of the
"Regional Attitudes" section if the people being labeled in those sections were equally represented hereon the English Wikipedia. The article labels these cultures explicitly, and also implicitly by discussing aspects of the cultures in the context of anti-Americanism. It also gives undue (exclusive) weight to the position that the term "anti-Americanism" depicts prejudice in a meaningful way; the article itself says the term may be propaganda. At times, it reads like a laundry list of what anybody has ever called anti-American. Examples:
European anti-Americanism well predates the invasion of Iraq and the Bush Administration, with criticisms of American "hegemonism", the coining of the term "hyperpuissance", and the dream of making the EU a "counterbalance" to the United States all flaring up in the '90s. The usual criticisms were also levied, that America was enforcing sanctions against Iraq for oil, and attributing sinister motives to the bombing of the Chinese embassy in Serbia.[53] French anti-americanism predates the founding of the United States with the belief that it was a barbaric land and all who went there also degenerated.[54]
The Middle East region has been a focal point of much anti-American sentiment in the latter decades of the 20th century and the beginning of the 21st, often blamed on specific U.S. policies in the region, particularly its close relationship with Israel and its stance on such matters as Sudan's civil war and Darfur. However, some argue that the real roots lay in government policy as reflected in state-directed media. By this reasoning, America is blamed for failed systems in the Middle East, as a means of re-directing internal dissent outwards, towards what Osama Bin Ladin has called "the far enemy", America, instead of at indigenous regimes.
(Note: the above paragraph is entirely unsourced.)
Cultural anti-Americanism in the Middle East may have its origins with Sayyid Qutb, an influential Egyptian author, who Paul Berman titled "the Philosopher of Islamic Terror".[59] Qutb, the leading intellectual of the Muslim Brotherhood, studied in Greely, Colorado, from 1948-50, and wrote a book, The America I Have Seen based on his impressions. In it he decried everything in American from individual freedom and taste in music to Church socials and haircuts,[60].
(The above leads to an enormous quote from Qutb, followed by more extensive quoting of Paul Hollander explaining how this shows all Middle Easterners are anti-American)
In Latin America, anti-American sentiment has deep roots dating back to the 1830s and the Texas Revolution.[69]Other significant 19th century events which led to a rise in anti-American sentiment were the 1846-1848 Mexican-American War, in which Mexico lost almost half of its territory to the US, the 1855 American intervention in Nicaragua and the Spanish-American War of 1898 - which turned Cuba into a virtual dependency of the United States.[70][71][72]Perceived racist attitudes of the white Anglo-Saxon Protestants of the north towards the populations of South America also caused resentment.[73]In the twentieth century American support for the 1954 coup in Guatemala against Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán, the United States embargo against Cuba, the 1964 Brazilian coup d'état, Operation Condor, the 1973 Chilean coup d'état, the Salvadoran Civil War, the support of the Contras and the refusal to extradite a terrorist, continued to fuel anti-Americanism in the region.[74][75][76]Similarly, U.S. support for dictators such as Augusto Pinochet, Anastasio Somoza, Alfredo Stroessner has influenced regional attitudes.[77]Fidel Castro the revolutionary leader of Cuba has throughout his career tried to co-ordinate long standing South American resentments against the USA through military and propagandist means.[78][79]
Solution: "Anti-American" tends to be a negative term applied by outsiders to others. It suggests prejudice. Furthermore, it tends to be applied by one culture (Americans and their allies) to other cultures (French, Middle Easterners, etc.). As such, it is not neutral for Wikipedia to state or imply what is anti-American and what is not. The term itself has a strong connection to propaganda, as the article itself suggests. So, the article should not consist of a long list of what people have called anti-American (sourced or not). That runs the risk of promoting the propaganda. The mere idea of a "Region Attitudes" section carries the implication that it is appropriate for Wikipedia to be telling readers which cultures are anti-American and which are not. Since the article violates neutrality blatantly, and since there is undue weight problem as well as many particular violations, I think the best approach is to shorten the article. The most potentially neutral part is the discussion of the way the term is used; the rest should be dramatically shortened and/or brought into balance.
Behavior Problem: The other two editors disagree with this analysis and refuse to discuss it. They have disrupted informal mediation, refused formal mediation, refused a truce, argued against arbitration, and explicitly stated an intention not to discuss any of these problems with me. Right now, it's a slow-moving edit war. Life.temp ( talk) 12:25, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Life.temp has been blocked indefinitely by David Gerard as a returning sockpuppet of an indefinitely blocked editor. Durova Charge! 19:29, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
The Persian Gulf, in the Southwest Asian region, is an extension of the Indian Ocean located between Iran and the Arabian Peninsula. It is the most commonly referred-to name by most nation-states and NGO and has been for quite some time. However, an alternative name, Arabian Gulf has also ben present for an equally long time and is in use today by citizens of many Arab nations. This has lef to significant conflict in the RW, as noted by the wiki-article, Persian Gulf naming dispute.
A vehement discussion regarding the inclusion (not replacement) of the alternative name in the Lead has been ongoing and unproductive. Edit-warring has resulted in blocks and warnings, resulting in the article being dispute-locked since March of this year. The locking admin advised that once a consensus was reached, to contact him regarding the unlocking of the article. To date, no one has, as there is no consensus for the addition of the alternative name. MedCab was enlisted to help negotiate a compromise and break the stalemate, without success. The case has been silent since May 8. The proposed working solution:
- The Persian Gulf, in the Southwest Asian region, is an extension of the Arabian Sea located between Iran and the Arabian Peninsula. It is sometimes controversially referred to as the Arabian Gulf by Arab countries or The Gulf, although neither terms are recognized internationally.}}
had not met with any amount of success, though endorsed by both the mediator and the some of the parties.
The dispute is mostly factionalized along cultural and ethnic lines. Editors with a leaning towards excluding the Arabian Gulf alternative name usually tend to be either anti-Arabian or pro-Persian. Editors opting for inclusion are mostly either pro-Arab or anti-Iranian. There is also a small group of editors who are apolitical and still support the inclusion of the alternative name. -
Arcayne
(cast a spell) 19:02, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
- The Persian Gulf, in the Southwest Asian region, is an extension of the Indian Ocean located between Iran and the Arabian Peninsula. It is sometimes controversially referred to as the Arabian Gulf or The Gulf, although neither terms are recognized internationally.
I suggest to move the discussion to the talk page of the article and unless reasonable oposing arguments are found made a pretected edit Alex Bakharev ( talk) 02:50, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
“ | The Persian Gulf, in the Southwest Asian region, is an extension of the Gulf of Oman located between Iran and the Arabian Peninsula. Historically and commonly known as the Persian Gulf, this body of water, for political reasons, is sometimes controversially referred to as the Arabian Gulf by Arab countries or The Gulf, although neither terms are recognized internationally or commonly used in English. | ” |
I have implemented a slightly modified version of the working solution, and unprotected the page. Further discussion can go at Talk:Persian Gulf#Unprotected - compromise. Khoi khoi 05:52, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
The article on Sambalpuri/Kosali, a region in the Orissa state of India, could benefit from a few more neutral eyes. It seems to be the product of a single editor and efforts to improve the English and make the article more encyclopedic are met with wholesale reverts. Every part of the article could use attention, starting with the title. The follow links suggest the primary editor’s motivations: here and here. Aramgar ( talk) 16:56, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
I would appreciate some tips how to deal with that problem. Some users (including me) reverted edits like this one as it appeared to be vandalism, and now disputes flared up like the one mentioned above and User_talk:Jons63/Archive_1#Byzantium (already archieved). I would be grateful for your opinions, → Christian .И 13:40, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
I've got a question about the
Romanian diaspora article - see also the recent
edit history. What exactly defines a diaspora? Specifically, with regard to Ukraine, here is the situation. In the 2001 census there, 150,989 declared as Romanian and 258,619 as Moldovan. However, Romanian sources consider both (self-declared Romanians and self-declared Moldovans) to be Romanians. Examples:
[7] ("Over 400,000 Romanians live in Ukraine.")
[8] ("According to the 2002 census, the Romanian minority in Ukraine numbers 410,000 members.")
[9] ("Over 400,000 ethnic Romanians live in Ukraine according to the 2001 census.")
I'm being stopped from making a note of that, but why not? Sure, they call themselves Moldovans, and we should say that, but Romanians see no difference between the two groups. Surely some solution (a footnote?) can be found.
Biruitorul
Talk 00:15, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Hello. The user HP1740-B denies the existence of a Flemish ethnicity and states that Flemish people are of Dutch ethnicity. He removed all content from Flemish (linguistics) with the edit summary "what it should be", and he's always reverting to his version of Dutch (ethnic group) and Flemish people. I can't find any information stating that a Flemish ethnicity doesn't exist. He always arguments that he has sources (two books; I'm not going to buy a book to see what they say). SPQRobin ( talk) 19:11, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Multiple pro-Palestine editors are working in a coordinated manner to squash this merger. User:Pedrito has even gone as far as to label attempts to merge material into the target article as "slurring Palestinians". I have placed a warning on his page that this is not useful as we discuss this merge but his friend User:Nickhh has stepped up to support him in his tendentious behavior. He is also trying to circumvent local discussion by shopping his opinion on other noticeboards then suggesting that involved editors should not have a say in the discussion at RSN. I'm trying to do my best but when faced with suggestions of racism, it is really difficult to work with these folks. The relevant talk page is: [10] Kyaa the Catlord ( talk) 13:55, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
The Taxila article presently has a pro-pakistani annon editor (several actualy) constantly changing "Ancient India, modern Pakistan" to just "Ancient Pakistan". The editor also removes india from several other spots ont he pages, tags, categories. Several editors have reverted but the perticular editor has the tendency to leave derogitory comments on anyone talk page accusing them of being "islamaphobic and pro western". If someone can assist with this content dispute. Knowledgeum ( talk) 15:42, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Bastianich is an Istrian-born American chef who specializes in Italian cuisine and publicly identifies herself as an Italian. A persistent IP editor is disrupting the article to claim that she is Croatian, despite having any sources to back up this claim. The editor has been at it for months, and I'm getting tired of reverting him. I've tried to discuss this on the talk page but still have not seen any sources about her ethnicity. Note that this is the same editor who has left trolling remarks on the talk page, poking fun at the subject's physical appearance [11]. Can someone step in here?-- The Fat Man Who Never Came Back ( talk) 04:01, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Assistance is required regarding the Arabistan Article. As part of an ongoing ethnic dispute between Arabs and Persians, my attempt to create have an article based on facts has been met with opposition which does not seem too interested in constructive discussion. This also extends to the articles of Khuzestan, Iranian Arabs and Racism in the Middle East. I have already been forced to request Wikiquette intervention with regards to one particularly uncivil editor. Editors which have been involved are User:BehnamFarid, User:CreazySuit and possibly User:Farmanesh as well. MiS-Saath ( talk) 05:32, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
03:55, 4 August 2008 (hist) (diff) Arabistan (Undid revision 229650164 by CreazySuit (talk) this is the last time before i turn to DR. this is NOT a POV fork. the talk is active - join it!) 21:03, 3 August 2008 (hist) (diff) Arabistan (Undid revision 229642268 by CreazySuit (talk) rv well sourced article with disucssion. please join discussion before reverting). I don't think that i have to beg them to talk back to me. MiS-Saath ( talk) 08:51, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
I've taken a quick look at the dispute, and although I must admit I don't fully understand the dispute, and I'm not very well-read on the Arab-Persian political conflict in Khuzestan/Arabistan, I think I can offer at least some help.
First of all, Arabistan should stay a disambiguation page, conforming to the normal style for dab pages. The real locus of the dispute is the article Khūzestān Province, and related articles like Politics of Khūzestān Province, Politics of Khūzestān Province, Origin of the name Khuzestan and Iranian Arabs. Even if improper decisions are being made on that article, it is not appropriate to try and sidestep the issue by adding the information to Arabistan. There is only one geographical area at issue here, and it is properly discussed by the page Khūzestān Province (which is properly named by WP:NAME policy, as it is the official name of the area, and the most common name in English-language sources.) The argument that the page Arabistan should be a page for the word "Arabistan" is a non-starter.
However, there appears to be a very unhealthy atmosphere on the article Khuzestan Province, which may have contributed to the problem of POV forking. All editors must accept that relevant information which is cited to reliable sources cannot be removed simply on the basis that it is false or "propaganda." Edits like this and [12] are not acceptable. User:BehnamFarid appears to be show classic signs of a nationalist problem editor; see User_talk:MiS-Saath#On_the_Khuzestan_Province.
In the broader coverage of Khuzestan/Arabistan across Wikipedia, there seem to be possible issues of neutrality, WP:UNDUE weight, and the avoidance of WP:ORiginal research, including synthesis of sources to advance a position. For example, Origin of the name Khuzestan appears designed to advance the position that Khuzestan is the original, correct name, and Arabistan the new, usurping name. Regardless of whether this is an accurate assessment, we need actual academic sources that say this, not a collection of ancient documents which are claimed to prove this. The interpretation of ancient primary sources is well beyond the remit of Wikipedia editors. There is too much room for error or selectivity, and virtually no editors have the ability to check these sources and WP:Verify the claim. We can only pass on what scholars and academics - ie, secondary sources - have said on the subject. If they have said nothing about the subject, we cannot write any article at all.
Editors must also accept that Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, U.S. State Department reports, and reports from United Nations agencies are considered top-grade sources. When they raise concerns about human rights in Khuzestan, they certainly can be cited, and they should be given proportionally large weight. This is not to say that criticism or counter-claims should be ommitted, but I am very concerned to see paragraphs like this:
Contrary to the arguments put forward by human rights groups, Arabic is taught in all public schools throughout the country [13] as a mandatory subject. This despite the fact that 97%-98% of Iranians are not ethnically Arabic speakers. [14]
This is a straightforward original synthesis of sources; two sources which have nothing to do with human rights groups' statements on Iran are being used to "disprove" their statements. If officials of the Iranian government - or any reliable sources - have refuted the claims of human rights groups, both sets of claims should be cited, and framed as a dispute between two groups.
For another example, the demographic composition of Khuzestan is not given anywhere in its article. It is briefly mentioned that the Iranian government does not take censuses there, in the context of an unrelated discussion. However, I find several strong human rights sources placing the Arab population in a clear majority - something like 70%. These estimates should be cited, and not buried in sub-sections either. Even if the demographics of Khuzestan were not a key issue of contention, articles on national sub-divisions generally have a top-level "demographics" section anyway. Such a section should probably exist in this article. Again, if Iran disputes the demographic estimates, their figures should certainly be cited as well.
Again, I don't fully understand either the on-Wiki or the off-Wiki conflict, and nobody should take my statement here as an endorsement of a particular position. However, Wikipedia's content policies are important and should be understood and followed. < eleland/ talk edits> 18:03, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
- The amount of material i've written on wikipedia with relation to iranian subjects is also totally irrelevant. i could be an iranologist, or i could be the village idiot, it doesn't matter - As long as my writing adheres to the rules of wikipedia, in particular with regards to important guidelines in areas of friction such as WP:V and WP:RS, is to stand by itself detached from whoever wrote it. [...] I would be willing to concede if you give me a reasonable historical authority which rejects the existence of such an emirate in the early 20's. I will of course re-insert this information as a debated fact if i manage to find a serious historical authority which asserts the existence of this entity.
- Regarding foreign investments, while Millspaugh and the Iranian government were eager to attract American capital, Great Britain, still the most influential power, was hostile to inroads by others. [...]
- Millspaugh tried to prevent Russo-Iranian agreement on the Caspian fisheries and on tariffs, though his claims on these points went against the 1921 Russian-Iranian Treaty. No agreement on these issues was reached while Millspaugh was present, and Russio-Iranian trade suffered. Millspaugh's failures made him increasingly unpopular, and disagreements with Reza Shah led to Millspaugh's resignation in 1927.
- The British, rebuffed in their attempt to control all Iran, continued to try in the south. They took four years to evacuate their troops there, and considered plans for an autonomous state, including Khuzestan, the main oil province. These plans centred on Shaikh Khaz'al, the powerful Arab tribal chief. The British negotiated with Khaz'al and promised support against the central government. At the end of 1923, Khaz'al formed a group aiming at an independent south Iranian federation and got some Bakhtiari and Luri [both non-Arab] groups to follow him. The government put down the Lurs, but Khaz'al and his allies declared independence. The central government was now too strong for the rebels, however, and Khaz'al was met with the army and forced to surrender in 1924. Soon after this, Reza Khan negotiated with the British, who saw it was in their interest to come to terms with the newly powerful regime. The British henceforth supported Reza Khan. [My italics.]
- With due respect MiS-Saath, you seem nothing else to do in your life but to request arbitrations. Someone with your language skills, your impeccable command of the English language, should not have difficulty finding a gainful occupation in, for instance, some advertising company. Or, am I missing something? Please kindly leave me in peace, and it has not been a pleasure meeting you. --BF 15:44, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
(outdent) Okay, first of all, I'd like to suggest that all editors make a conscious effort to dial back their rhetoric, and to keep things WP:CIVil. Frankly, comments in this matter have long since passed te point where administrators who read them will probably issue blocks. I'd advise that any editors who may have, for example, insinuated that other editors are Jewish disinormation agents should withdraw such comments immediately.
Now to discuss two content issues. First:
Amnesty International writes, "Prior to 1925, although nominally part of Iranian territory, the area functioned for many years effectively as an autonomous emirate known as Arabistan, until Reza Khan reimposed central control by military force. Its name was changed to Khuzestan in 1936." This information was added to the article Khuzestan Province in an appropriate location. In fact, the version without this paragraph leaves a puzzling gap - it states that the area was Arabized and was under the protection of an Arab sheikh, then it jumps ahead to 1980, with Iran defending Khuzestan against Iraq.
Amnesty is a reliable source, and other reliable sources have much the same information. British policy in Persia, 1918-1925, by Houshang Sabahi, pub Routledge discusses the issue in great detail, and confirms the Amnesty account. http://www.american.edu/ted/ice/khuzestan.htm has the same information. But, as is evident from this page and from User talk:MiS-Saath#On the Khuzestan Province, B.F. does not seem to be actually disputing the information itself - rather, he seems to be disputing the moral and political legitimacy of the emirate, and arguing that since the Sheikh was an unlawful rebel, the fact that his emirate was effectively autonomous should be removed.
This type of behavior is what I refer to as a classic sign of a nationalist problem editor, and I am afraid that given the facts I cannot withdraw that remark. Objecting to a straightforward description of history because you personally condemn the historical figure in question is, to be blunt, inane. Mentioning that an autonomous emirate existed is in no way an endorsement of that emirate, or of its leaders. This is obvious.
Second. User:Nepaheshgar objects to several pieces of information on grounds which are clearly indefensible by Wikipedia policy, and in some cases seem to be logically fallacious.
In summary, there appears to be something of a "hornet's nest" atmosphere on these pages, which no doubt explains some of the evident lapses and ommissions. Editors need to realize that this is a global encyclopedia and has a global perspective. It may at times include information which is troubling or offensive to certain nationalist narriatives. While it is sincerely not our intention to offend individuals, Wikipedia is not censored. < eleland/ talk edits> 02:37, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
Solving the naming dispute on Many Greek Town's with a large Slavic speaking population (regardless of ethnicity) which are situated in Central or West Macedonia. What language is usable? Macedonian, Macedonian Slavic, Slavic, Local Slavic, Nothing, Bulgarian, South Slavic even?
*NOTE: This post concerns the Slavic language spoken in Western and Central Greek Macedonia (which is considered as Macedonian or Macedonian slavic), not East Macedonia which is Sometimes considered Bulgarian'
For hundreds of year the Whole region known as Macedonia was part of the Ottoman Empire. When the empire disintegrated many new Balkan States took control of Areas previously controlled by the Ottomans. Most of the Slavic populaiton of Macedonia was considered either Bulgarian or Slav Macedonian, they were the majority population in Macedonia but many large minorities existed (Greeks, Turks, Roma, Aromanians, Albanians). The Greek army took control of the area today known as Greek or Aegean Macedonia after the first Balkan War. They consolidated their rule after World War One. (This is where the Politics Start :) ).
After World War One Many people Bulgarian's left Greek Macedonia and Thrace for Bulgaria as part of population exchanges (in Greece they are referred to as Slavophone Greeks or simply Slavophones), this mainly affected people living in Eastern Macedonia and Thrace, an estimated 50,000 - 70,000 left Greece. Before World War One, Slavs were the majority population in Greek Macedonia while Greeks constituted a Minority. Yet during the years 1913-1926 major demographics changes would take place. Hundreds of thousands of Greeks were resettled from Black Sea, after 1926 Greeks made up the Majority population in greek Macedonia. They are often called Prosfiges or Refugees, while the original Slavic Inhabitants are often refered in greek as Dopii or locals. [27] Although a language primer ( Abecedar) was printed in the local Slavic Dialect (which is now considered Macedonian by most non-Greek linguists) the general policy in the inter-war period was the restriction of the Macedonian language at all levels of society. The use of the Macedonian language was forbidden and people were forced to attend night school. [28] Toponyms and Personal Names were changed from the local slavic to the Greek version, ie. Lerin → Florina, Ovčarani → Meliti. (Note: Greeks refer to the local slavic dialects as a "local idiom with a mixture of Greek, Turkish, Slavonic and Vlach influences)
During the Second World War many Slav Macedonians joined the KKE, soon the Slavic-Macedonian National Liberation Front (SNOF) was established. The Macedonian language was freely taught in Greece, and many macedonian langauge newspapers, schools, theatres and other establishments flourished. The language which was taught was the same language as the language in the Socialist Republic of Macedonia or the Macedonian language. [29] SNOF soon developed into the National Liberation Front (Macedonia), an ethnic macedonian dominated organisation fighting for the Communists. Many of the Slav's who previously identified as Bulgarians began to identify as Slav Macedonians. [30] But the KKE was defeated and tens of thousands of Ethnic Macedonians fled Greece, today they are known as Aegean Macedonians. The 1951 census recorded c.41,000 speakers of Slavic, although this is widely considered a undercount. By 1959 language oaths were introduced in greek villages whereby the villagers claimed to renounce their slavic dialect and speak only Greek. [31] Depite this Slav speakers (regardless of ethnic identity) still made up a large proportion in Florina, Kastoria, Eddessa and the surrounding areas. [32] An estimated 65% of the Florina Prefecture considered themselves Dopii or Locals ( a term synonymous with Slavophone Greeks). An Ethnic Macedonian political party was founded in Florina in the 1990's, it has had most support in that Prefecture with the election of a member to the post of prefecture counselor. Today the estimated number of Slav's (regardless of ethnicity) is between 50,000 to 200,000. [33], [34], [35]. (Note: The Macedonian language is often refered to by scholars as "Macedonian Slavic" or "Slav Macedonian" when the language is in Greece)
Greek POV
Only a few thousands elderly bilinguals speak a local idiom in the border reagions with FYROM. The idiom is a mixture of Slavonic (mainly bulgarian), Greek, Vlach, Albanian and Turkish. The slavic language should not be confused or indentified with the "Makedonski" (Macedonian) spoken in FYROM. Consequently the language used in FYROM although related should not be identified with the idiom spoken in some regions of Greek Macedonia. [36] There is no Slav Macedonian minority in Greece.
Ethnic Macedonian POV
The [slavic] dialects spoken in Greek Macedonia form many of the dialects of the Macedonian language. The macedonian language is widely spoken throughout Greek Macedonia. Some Macedonian activists assert that there is over 1 million Ethnic Macedonians in Greece. [37]
Linguist's Opinions
Peter Trudgill : Greek non-linguists, when they acknowledge the existence of these dialects at all, frequently refer to them by the label Slavika, which has the implication of denying that they have any connection with the languages of the neighboring countries. It seems most sensible, in fact, to refer to the language of the Pomaks as Bulgarian and to that of the Christian Slavonic-speakers in Greek Macedonia as Macedonian. [1]
Roland Schmieger: Apart from certain peripheral areas in the far east of Greek Macedonia, which in our opinion must be considered as part of the Bulgarian linguistic area (the region around Kavala and in the Rhodope Mountains, as well as the eastern part of Drama nomos), the dialects of the Slav minority in Greece belong to Macedonia diasystem. [2]
Most Linguists agree that the Slavic Language spoken in West Macedonian (eg. the Florina/Kastoria region) and Central Macedonia (Pella, Kilkis, Imathia) is Macedonian.
To put it simply. Most Macedonian editors claim that the language spoken in West and Central Macedonia is Macedonian, this veiw is shared by most linguists and scholars although many of them use the term "Macedonian Slavic". Greek users claim it is not Macedonian, but rather Slavic (which even states that the language spoken in Florina is Macedonian} or remove any name other than the Official Greek Name. There have been many revert wars over towns like Florina and Kastoria. I Would like to achieve a wiki-protocol which can be applied on most Wikipedia pages. Input by Neutral Mediators and Administrators would be appreciated in order to achieve a decision on wikipedia, and to mediate between the Macedonian and Greek users.
PS. I have tried to make the intro as neutral as possible. PMK1 ( talk) 08:56, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Skopje has a huge Albanian population do we really need the name of the city in Albanian? At least we do not have to make linguistic research to determine which language they speak. The same goes for Spanish in Los Angeles, Chinese in Kuala Lumpur, Idish in Vitebsk, etc. Usually we provide non-English names of a city in the lead of a city's article if either it is an official language in the city, it was an official language for hundreds years. We do not provide additional names because of minorities living there, it is especially true if the very existence and identity of the minority is disputed. Alex Bakharev ( talk) 09:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
You know, we can just scrap other languages in leads altogether for the Balkans. As this entire episode has shown, it leads nowhere. Balkan Fever 10:34, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
We have the problem that until fairly recently Macedonian (now the official language of the FRYROM) was itself regarded as a dialect of Bulgarian, and the languages are very close. Going by some comments earlier, it may well be the case that in most parts of northern Greece, where a local Slavic dialect is spoken, it is closer to Macedonian than Bulgarian, but there are some areas in the far east of the country where the reverse is true, and it would to some extent be artificial to draw a clear line on the map of Greece. "Slavic" is the least problematic term, nobody disputes that Bulgarian and Macedonian are Slavic. PatGallacher ( talk) 20:00, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
See Slavic dialects of Greece. PatGallacher ( talk) 20:11, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
2008 South Ossetia War is an ongoing conflict between Georgia, Russia, and multiple ethnic groups within the area.
The article has been fighting between those attempting to keep it unbiased and those with a definitely Russian one. For a list of people that have been caught up in this you can go to the 3R section and other places where "edit wars" become visible. Today I opened the page again to see Russian quotes filling the introduction and the only Georgian quote had been erased. This article has become heavily biased.
I am requesting more protection for those that have been attempting to counter the Russian bias. The abilities of the people supporting the Russian bias seem pretty good. And, I as a supporter of the unbiased positions do not have the skill to continue. Thank you for any help. And, I am requesting that editors with more knowledge about bias then myself participate. PlanetCeres ( talk) 23:25, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Within the last few minutes it has been looking better. But, since this problem has been ongoing I will leave this up for now. PlanetCeres ( talk) 00:42, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
I am creating this thread to centralize discussion regarding a nationalist dispute over Azad Kashmir and the alleged POV fork Pakistan occupied Kashmir. I am asking parties to civilly discuss the articles' title & content here. Until a consensus is achieved, both articles will remain under full protection. I will continue to monitor progress here. Thanks, caknuck ° is geared up for football season 05:39, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
UNITED NATIONS
Kashmircloud, what do you mean when you say I "vandalised the summarised intro and removed the obvious location..similar location removal vandalism has not been done by the same user at j and k, aksai chin , northern areas and ajk..why he bullies my edits " do you have evidence for this? I haven't even edited the
Aksai Chin article. Please provide some diffs to back up your claim. All I have done was to redirect the
Pakistan occupied Kashmir article as can be seen
here and
here. After that I just tagged it as being POV and unbalanced and did not actually alter the contents of the article in anyway. I redirected it on these two occasions as it seems pretty clear to me that it is a POV fork and it was I who actually brought the dispute to Caknuck's attention as can be seen
here.
Pahari Sahib 19:51, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
''POK INCLUDES NOT JUST AJK..IT ALSO INCLUDES TRANS KARAKORAM TRACT, GILGIT AND BALTISTAN.. 117.193.33.134 ( talk) 02:28, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
POK is term used exclusively by INDIANS and no other nation of earth pakistan also regards indian administered kashmir as indian occupied kashmir (IOK) if this goes ahead i assure you there will be edit wars for the next decade kashmir cloud is simply stirring up trouble with a heavily pro indian agenda he is indian after all so i propose scrapping POK and the whole article which if you read you can blatantly tell its PRO INDIAN it shows how desperate kashmir cloud is about vandalising. 86.163.154.87 ( talk) 14:49, 31 August 2008 (UTC) +
I must apologize, I had a response for Meco written yesterday, but forgot to press 'save page' before closing the computer. Certainly Kashmir conflict is a better redirect. PoK is not synonymous to Azad Kashmir, as India claims both AJK & FANA as 'PoK'. However, in usage at wikipedia PoK should be used to describe a term applied by Indian govt and Indian media. It should not be used to describe a geographic location. I found several pages linking to the PoK page as if 'PoK' would be a geographic location (see past version of Balti language for example), a pov problem that will take some time to fix. -- Soman ( talk) 07:12, 1 September 2008 (UTC) I think the debate can be summarized in this way: The state of Kashmir and Jammu was divided in 1947, one part under Indian control and one part under Pakistani control. Both governments have lengthy arguments to support their claims to the entire Kashmir/Jammu region, international orgs like UN have simply taken the compromise to see all of the area as disputed. On the Indian-controlled side, a state called Jammu and Kashmir was formed. India claims all of the old princely state as part of its J&K state. Pakistani divided its areas of the old Kashmir-Jammu state into two (as well as trading off some areas to China) Azad Jammu & kashmir and FANA. I'm not sure if Pakistani govt conisders all of the Indian-controlled areas as parts of AJK, but I'd suppose so. Now, the issue is how to deal with this issue. The current option is that we use the formal names for administrations used by the two states; Jammu and Kashmir for the Indian state and Azad Kashmir for the Pakistani administration. Some Indian editors dislike the usage of the name 'Azad Kashmir', since it literally means 'Free Kashmir' (implying that the areas under Indian control would not be 'free'). However, Azad Kashmir (or more correctly Azad Jammu & Kashmir) is a formal name of an existing administration. Some editors might not consider the Democratic Republic of Congo as a democratic state, but that doesn't warrant a move. We could have moves to Jammu and Kashmir (Indian state) and Azad Kashmir (Pakistani state), but I don't really see that as an improvement. -- Soman ( talk) 10:02, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
It is totally nonsense to have two seperate articles on one subject such as azad kashmir a blatantly biased article such as "POK" shouldnt even deserve to be a page on wikipedia what makes it worse is that some nationalists such as Shovon,kashmir cloud and GDibyendu always seem to put a redirection to this pathetic page they also frequently put there foot into pakistani articles i.e azad kashmir and create problems i notice a pattern of abuse. The azad kashmir article barely survives a week without indian interference while the Jammu and kashmir article is based totally on the indian veiw unless indians stop creating biased articles such as "POK" and stop pushing there point of veiw by brute force without no consensus in the first place i will continue to correct your wrong doings thats a promise freind 86.153.130.184 ( talk) 10:40, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
if status quo is not preferable (i can't understand why!), then the easiest way would be to bring all three parts of PoK or pakistani administered " erstwhile J and K kingdom" (so called northern areas, so called ajk and the trans karakoram tract) under one banner under a unified single article on POK..stop using word "azad"..do you know that the independendence of kashmir is not even recognised by their own constitution!!! pity!! see references on POK page ..i came to know a lot on the blindness of wikipedians there (present version throws light upon these facts) ..please use "so called azad j&k" instead of "azad" since pakistan and pok itself does not recognise its independence! ..even the supreme court of pakistan pities the lack of rights in pok territories!!! ajk citizens are implicitly inferior to pakistani citizens according to its constitution where in 5 out of 11 members are pakistan puppet appointees..they need to get a single pok voice out of the remaining to push the pok slavery agenda smoothly(this i learnt from azad k page ironically!!) and pakistan punjab rules that disputed area Kashmircloud ( talk) 21:08, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
Clamp downs are necessary when articles such as POKwith only one pont of veiw i.e Indias is given and since the POk page was only made by editors who show a consistent pestering in azad kashmir and northern area articles relating to pakistan its safe to say there BIASED only deletion of the POK page will do 86.162.67.217 ( talk) 12:41, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
I have requested that an admin lift the protection so that the article can be tagged for AFD. I've given reason for this on the talk page, and as soon as the AFD is under way, I believe that process will put an end to this debacle. __ meco ( talk) 12:43, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
you can just look above and see what problems this POK article created by a single editor kashmir cloud who seems to be 117 ip 86.162.67.217 ( talk) 14:13, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
Resolved
I seem to have
reached an understanding with our IP friend. I hope this puts an end to this small issue made big.
S3000
☎ 09:07, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Hi S3000 just wanted to let you know this talk whole discussion was not about me lol its about the very controversial POK page just letting you know as you seem to be confusing it with me 86.156.211.157 ( talk) 18:30, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pakistan occupied Kashmir __ meco ( talk) 18:41, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
A edit disputive erupted at Muzaffarabad, regarding how to mention Indian claims on the region. This poses a question on how to deal with the Indian and Pakistani claims across various articles.
-- Soman ( talk) 11:03, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Why does Pakistan-administered Kashmir (also called Pakistan occupied Kashmir) link somewhere else? Its the same geographic place. all one needs is to add another history/background section. That is blatantly Indian POV, just the same as saying Indian Occupied Kashmir for J&K. Obviously there should be a part in the article saying what it is referred to as in India (not to mention maps of India within India, and, I imagine, Pakisan maps in Pakistan), but within the land itself, within Muzaffarabad it is called Azad Kashmir, so it's officially called that by the people and institutions there. Now trying to mention some fringe minority to get away with this would be like saying J&K shouldn't be so because the "fringe minority" there think it ought not to be. Lihaas ( talk) 18:08, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
Is anyone actually monitoring this? or is it going to be left to fester? As it stands the Pakistan-administered Kashmir article now has a POV lead section, and the Azad Kashmir article is locked, the latter article was stable until August when there appeared to be a campaign to POV push. Thus far the POV has gone through an AFD, due to canvassing the result was to speedy close it and redirect it. The Pakistan-administered Kashmir is introduced with POV, as it is a disputed area the lead section should be similar to the Jammu and Kashmir article - as I tried to do here, I asked for a third opinion and we got this version which I agreed with (NPOV). However this was reverted by one editor and the issue remains unresovlved Pahari Sahib 13:28, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
I'm involved in a long running dispute with little or no end in sight. I'm using the WWII persecution of the Serbs as an umbrella header, because the conflict encompasses many related articles like Magnum Crimen, Miroslav Filipović, and Ljubo Miloš. In addition there are several sock farms involved, and some of the checkuser results can be seen here and here. Editing relations have almost completely broken down, there's pointed incivility, endless arguments, sock and meat-puppet allegations, and slow moving edit wars. I've considered mediation, but with the number of articles affected, number of editors involved, and the continuous socking, I'm not sure it would do any good. I noticed in the "See also" below that Wikiprojects and at least one experiment have been formed to help editors in contentious areas edit productively. I've let the majority of editors involved in the various discussions know that I'm attempting to start a project to help stabilize editing in the affected areas, though I haven't informed them of this thread, as almost inevitably both sides begin accusations that have spanned many noticeboards, talkpages, and user talkpages. Help is not only appreciated, but necessary. A ni Mate 23:18, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
Anonymous ip editors persist in removing a short section on the Armenian resistance from the article on the Turkish city of Şebinkarahisar. The section has reliable sources and valid wikilinks ( Shabin-Karahisar Resistance, etc.). I have restored it three times but do not wish to be associated with a protracted and sterile revert war with anonymous nationalists. Would other editors please take a look at the passage to see if it is worth defending? Aramgar ( talk) 00:12, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
It's on the verge of becoming a political WP:CIRCUS. Some uninvolved admin should perhaps move off-topic remarks to the AfD's talk page. VG ☎ 16:24, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
At Talk:Żydokomuna#Prominent_individuals, concerns ethnic/cultural issues related to Polish-Jewish history. Comments appreciated, -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 00:22, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
An anonymous editor with a strong Serbian POV 70.80.93.11 ( talk · contribs) is engaging in an edit war on Šar Mountains. The range is located on the border between Kosovo and Macedonia. His edits consist solely of sterile reverts of "Kosovo" to " Serbia" or insisting on the formulation "Kosovo, Serbia", or some such. Several editors have argued in edit summaries that stating that the mountains are located in Kosovo is sufficient geographical precision for the article and implies nothing about Kosovo’s status as a political entity. Nikola Smolenski ( talk · contribs), whom I believe is unaffiliated with the ip, has made similar changes, while several Albanian editors in recent days have sent the article skating around the namespace via a series of undiscussed moves. The article certainly needs more eyes. Is Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Kosovo relevant here? Aramgar ( talk) 22:57, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
In the article, I have re-edited the religion section, because I thought it was biased and only looks at the point of view of secularism or kemalism of the country, therefore I believe that section does not provide a neutral point of view for the readers on Wikipedia, because nothing is mentioned about the conservatism present in Turkey, for example the rise of Islamist-governments and the headscarf controversy - which is banned, but worn by many. I have then added this information about the culture clash between both of these ideologies, with reliable sources and is an important information which should be available in the article based on the impact of Religion in the country.
Furthermore, I have also added the Kemalist ideology to balance between both of these concepts. But in the article it is reverted by two users: User:Turkish Flame and User:Ayça Leovinus (<Part of the 37 Wikipedia sockpuppets of Shuppiluliuma), their reason mainly given: No Islamist ideology allowed on the article, and only favoring secular information, but I have provided two balanced information for the article section, so I believe these two users are reverting my edits due to based on their own ideologies, but not caring about how information is provided for Wikipedia users, and that is what I have done by editing the section, providing a neutral point of view, but however these users are trying to hide these facts and informations, which I think is not a valid reason to revert my edits. Please review this, Thank you!!! My neutral revision : [38] against this: [39]
Many biased reason's against my edit: There is no place for your islamist agenda in wikipedia..., I know that it tickles your Islamist nerves., The top paragraph entirely for religion, the bottom paragraph entirely for secularism., especially when you are the "dedicated Islamist" of Wikipedia?, You are not making a "summary", you are only removing the parts that you dislike due to your Islamic ideology, Mr. Bangladeshi Islamic fanatic in England, why don't you "get a life" and leave Turkey to the Turks - who definitely know their country much better than you do?, Enough - go see a doctor, You are not making a "summary", you are only removing the parts that you dislike due to your Islamic ideology - Note the word Islamist mentioned in these quotes by User:Ayça Leovinus.
My reason's for edits: I have shortened the section because: the section looks cluttered and unorganized; various info moved to subs; reducing article size (not removed secular), Balancing and adding information (ie Kemalism, political situation), fixing info, now clear according to NPOV, good edit (AGF, NPOV), My revision: shortened sentences, and transferred to related articles, adding few relevant political sit., reducing article size (previous cluttered and unorganized) now), re edited section, added more comprehensive populations of Christians and Jews, and fixed Kemalism, with sources, entry referenced, based on NPOV, balanced of view. Conservate and secular present, not only secular, this should not be hidden., NPOV version: providing info based on two sides of point of views, not only one, but two present in society. Secularism/Kemalism, Conservatism/Headscarf - Note no insults given to users, but giving suitable reasons for the edits.
Mohsin ( talk) 13:13, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
I have re-edited it again for a more neutral perspective: [40] Mohsin ( talk) 14:23, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
The Bishopric was created by William of Modena in 1243 as a German Prince-Bishopric that was secularized in 1772, after the date it continued to exist as not a state any more but just a German Bishopric until 1945 when the lands and the bishopric became part of Poland.
now, the thing is that between 1466-1772 it was also part of Poland and first of all there is a controversy between the German and Polish naming versions Ermland vs. Warmia. The result is that there are currently at least 3 articles on WP on the subject Episcopal Duchy of Warmia, Archbishopric of Warmia and finally one about the modern bishopric Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Warmia. There was a long and nice discussion about the problems at Talk:Episcopal Duchy of Warmia (in case anybody can take thier time and get more into it) that unfortunately didn't produce a clear consensus how to go about it. So the mess remains and recently has got worse since a number of IP editors have taken it over, see the edit history of this one [41]. So any help would be appreciated to clean the subject up on WP. thanks!-- Termer ( talk) 06:14, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
An article that you have been involved in editing, Ethnic conflicts in western Poland, has been listed for deletion. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ethnic conflicts in western Poland. Thank you. Do you want to opt out of receiving this notice? Skäpperöd ( talk) 16:51, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
I'll try to make sense of that! The article in question, dealing with the general concept of a Welfare state, has a POV that goes all over the map - but it is especially overburdened by a libertarian/conservative perspective which cites very few references. In trying to counter that viewpoint, others have countered the criticism... so now, the article is a MESS, to put it mildly. It's a battle of sides adding more flame to the fire, instead of snuffing the fire out - so instead of achieving any sort of NPOV, all that the editors are achieving is an increase in the size of the article, and increased confusion to any reader who might genuinely want to learn something from the page.
By "overly American-Flavored" - the majority of the point/counterpoint material is comparative - basically, comparing every OTHER situation in other countries to the United States situation. Not only that, all figures of monetary value are in US dollars - and some figures and graphs are horribly ambiguous, confusing, or downright wrong! I guess it has to be seen to be appreciated.
I thought about doing some editing myself; then, I knew that it would be a mistake to do it on my own - because I live in the United States, for one! Not only that, I do have a pretty strong left-leaning POV when it comes to the material, and so I might not be the best to do it.
In my opinion, there is one major thing that would improve the article; deleting several major sections. It's too long, and like I said, it's longggg because of the back-and-forthness of the material between sides. Thanks to anyone who takes a look at this. Dmodlin71 ( talk) 04:25, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
I wrote in the discussion area for Obama that he is not African American, he had a white mother and a black father, but everyone calls him African American. This is Bias, one sided opinionated nonsense and I am surprised Wikipedia would allow such a racist issue to go on. He is not African American. Why do half African Americans always insist they are full African American? Please just say he has African American Blood for goodness sakes.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.112.222.247 ( talk) 6 July 2008
We usually follow the self-identification of a person. Obama seems to consider himself African-American despite having also the Anglo-Saxon and Arabic heritages. Alex Bakharev ( talk) 13:50, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
There has been some extremely visceral mutual disagreement over whether this article should be in Category:Homophobia or not. The culturally and religiously liberal side says absolutely yes. The culturally and religiously conservative side says absolutely no, and questions the validity of using the word "homophobia" at all. Talk:California Proposition 8 (2008)#Category:Homophobia is where it's being discussed. No one (including myself) seems to have been neutral and detached enough from the issue to offer a possible NPOV that isn't strongly opposed by another editor. I have considered the possibility that for me this is a conflict of interest and I would prefer to excuse myself from the discussion. However, the issue still remains, and someone neutral and detached enough needs to decide whether this category is appropriate for this article, and possibly also to clarify the appropriate criteria and appropriateness of Category:Homophobia itself. - Gilgamesh ( talk) 19:40, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
This 3RR case ended with semi-protection of History of Silesia and Silesian Piasts, due to revert-warring by IP socks. Though socking and edit warring are against policy, it is not clear who is right about the underlying dispute. The warring IP was trying to put a Polish cast on the article, while the other party, LUCPOL, seemed to be removing mentions of Poland and stressing the independent destiny of Silesia. Can't a well-crafted compromise just factually narrate at what periods various parts of Silesia were, or were not in Poland or the various other surrounding countries? Should this be very difficult? Can anyone think how to get a better quality discussion going at Talk:History of Silesia, so that people are critiquing sources instead of exchanging insults? :-) Can anyone think of a polite way to insist on having Talk discussions and edit summaries in English rather than Polish? EdJohnston ( talk) 22:15, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Really? Warmia isn't part of Silesia if you meant that. 84.139.226.24 ( talk) 05:48, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
???? Was Vecrumba talking about Warmia, or not? If he meant Warmia - it's not in Silesia. Whatever you want to express, I don't understand your POV. 84.139.218.5 ( talk) 10:50, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
Vecrumba write: Silesia ...after all, it's named after the Silesians, the Slav tribe that settled in that area.-
Correction: Silesia (Slesia=Schlesien) is named for the Silinger a Vandalic, of the Germanic tribes, who lived in Germania Slavs started moving into Germania after the 6th century and Silesia was conquered by the first duke of the Polans, Mieszko I around 1000 AD, but shortly after lost again. Polish name is Slask. An Observer ( 71.137.197.97 ( talk) 00:43, 15 October 2008 (UTC))
pagus Silensis ( Thietmar of Merseburg), Sleenzane ( Bavarian Geographer)
It is now commonly accepted that the name Silesia (Slask-Śląsk) derives from the name of the Silesian mountain Sleza ( Ślęża) known in German as Zobotenberg. The name of the mountain comes from old West slavic word ślągwa and ślęgnąć which means moisture, humidity etc. It was given to the mountain and the nearby river due to the humidity which was much higer here than anywere else in the region.
Befor the WWII some German nationalists tried to create a new theory as if the name derives from the word Siligi a Vandalic tribe that passed through the region during the Migration Period. It was strongly defended by Karl Mahr in his Bemerkungen zu den Steinbildern am Siling, "Schlesische Blatter", 1940-1941. It is worth mentioning that this and similar "historical works" are nothing more than part of the Nazi propaganda.
Even more obious it is when we see who edited those books. For instance the "Ostgermanen und Nordgermanen", edited in 1940 in Leipzig and Berlin as a third volumin to the "Vorgeschichte der deutschen Stamme" part of which was "Gcrmanische Tat und Kultur auf deutschem Boden" was edited by the "Reichsbund fur deutsche Vorgeschichte" and "Reichsamt f. Vorgeschichte der NSDAP". Authors of those books are nowdays mostly a shamful topic in the German historiography but as I can see some people still use those "arguments" even though they were invented by Nazi Propaganda.
When we look at the name of the province carved on the tomb of Boleslaus the Tall. We can see the name Slezia. It those times the latin name of the province was not yet stable. For instance Thietmar calles it pagus Silensis and in Bavarian Geographer the name of the tribe is Sleenzane. In a Bohemian document from 968 there is province of Slensane. So the name on the tomb could be just one of the Medieval versions that were in use. What is more interesting this name Slezie directly corresponds with the name of the mountain Sleza as well as with the name of the tribe Slensane and therefore could be older and of more Slavic origin than the later latin Silesia. Cheers 213.238.120.27 ( talk) 11:57, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
Please see discussion at Mos(b).-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 20:52, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
I've recently noticed that the Romanians page begins with a redivert 'Not to be confused with Roma people'. Including dabs for other groups that might also be confused with Romanians has resulted in their being reverted, apart from the Roma Dab. I strongly suspect that the singling out of this group is motivated by prejudice rather than any disinterested perceived 'ambiguity'. My attempts to address the issue on the Talk Page, in the face of determined resistance, only produces repeated edit reverts. Is there a policy on the use of such 'disclaimers', and guidelines to determine if this one is appropriate? Any advice greatly appreciated. RashersTierney ( talk) 00:39, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
RashersTierney ( talk) 15:38, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
For anyone interested, the issue is currently being discussed at the appropriate
TalkPage.
RashersTierney (
talk) 15:52, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
There is disagreement at Sveta Gera about whether or not the article should be named Sveta Gera, Trdinov vrh, or something else. Outside views and similar assistance would be appreciated at Talk:Sveta Gera#RfC: Article naming. Thanks! Vassyana ( talk) 09:38, 24 November 2008 (UTC)
There's an ongoing problem there with User:Danh claiming that the hundreds of thousands of Romanian citizens living in Spain and Italy are ... not of Romanian ethnicity. It may be true that not all of them are, but seems a ridiculous to insist on this given the overall ethic composition of Romanian citizens. Danh also claims that those living in Spain and Italy are migrant workers, so they shouldn't be counted as living abroad, even though the census bureaus in these coutries do count them as living there. He's basically pushing his own version of WP:TRUTH, i.e. ethnic Romanians don't live abroad in large numbers. He's also labeling editors that disagree with him as "rudimentary trolls". Pcap ping 14:45, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Already many months I have been involved in the discussion about the ethnic composition of Nagorno-Karabakh ( Artsakh) and of the right bank of the Kura river (Artsakh and Utik) in ancient times. Unfortunatly no consensus was so far reached. I have been trying to use the "dubious" tags in order to avoid edit-warring (espacially with User:Grandmaster). However this did not help long, as they are now removed by a user who even did not react in the relevant talkpage. I therefor want to ask some third-party users to see if they can help us in the following talk pages:
Thank you beforehand.-- Vacio ( talk) 15:41, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Here is a citation from ' The Caucasian Knot' By Levon Chorbajian, Claude Mutafian which could be used as a starting point:
Armenian historians...argue that Caucasian Albanians were absorbed by the Armenians...Azerbaijani historians in stark contrast view Caucasian Albania as the precursor of modern Azerbaijan.
-- Termer ( talk) 19:19, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
Did the suggestion help? And the exact "neutral and reliable third party source" suggested by the guy that should be used would be...? Exactly, -none, that is the reason you haven't solved anything because the suggestion doesn't count on realities. Such sources do not exist simply because there is no King Solomon around among historians who'd be able to be "neutral" enough so that any Gordian Knot could be solved so easily in practice. The only proven way to solve any such disputes on Wikipedia is to list opposing POV-s side by side and in that sense the citation I provided above, it can't get more neutral than that. Please read the WP:NPOV -> WP:YESPOV. 'the neutral point of view is a point of view, not the absence or elimination of viewpoints...The policy requires that where multiple or conflicting perspectives exist within a topic each should be presented fairly...etc. Good luck!-- Termer ( talk) 06:35, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
So what do the "top international experts on the ancient history of the region" say differently from the citation above?-- Termer ( talk) 07:13, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Hummus and Za'atar saw ethnic clashes recently, believe it or not, and now the batttleground is Tabbouleh. It's being asserted that the term "Levantine cuisine" is a racist, offensive colonial slur to divide the grand Arab nation. It's enough to give one indigestion. < eleland/ talk edits> 05:26, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Another round has started up, related to Hummus and Felafel this time. See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Israel_Palestine_Collaboration#Of_all_things_..._Hummus and the article talk pages; there appears to be disagreement over when you cross the line between documenting a verifiable ethnic/cultural conflict over the origins of national cuisines into actually participating in such a conflict. (See for example this al Jazeera English piece on Jerusalem street food, and its reception and critique in the Jerusalem culture guide, a site about local culture from an Israeli-Jewish perspective.) There is also question over the use of the term "Palestine," with some arguing that it is anachronistic and could be confused for the nascent and unrecognized State of Palestine, and others (incl. myself) arguing that it is a natural and normal geographical term and will be understood in context as referring to Palestine (region). More eyeballs welcome. < eleland/ talk edits> 02:37, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
While discussing Anti-Arabism section about Algeria a dispute arose concerning the relvance of information (such quality of life, speaking french, being christian secular) and some unrelated stated sources. I asked for a section rewrite and put a dispute frame to invite more contributors in good faith. I want to apologize for playing the Don't call the kettle black game but I have no options. The user Nabilus_junius has been causing disruptive edits and undoes, including edit warring, racist attacks against a whole race and people (he said in French: ..Il est interessant de voire comment les arabes vivants en europe savent user des failles de la démocratie chrétienne pour imposer leur lois (bien plus loin que ce qu'ils leur est du)..), personal attacks, accusations of Conflicts of Interest, a hostile tone, writing in a language other than English (I think Kabyle + French), misusing Wikipedia policies and guidelines and refusing to reach a consensus on the topic.
You can check the disucssion here Talk:Anti-Arabism#Algeria_section_rewrite, click here for my last edit snapshot. I am waiting for third party opinions and assistance to resolve the dispute as I cannot continue playing the do/undo game forever. Bestofmed ( talk) 17:19, 20 December 2008 (UTC).
A section of this article entitled " European plates and the GB controversy" describes the various country codes found on European-format number plates of vehicles registered in Northern Ireland. This section has been subject to persistent sporadic edit-warring since July 2008, with (suspiciously similar) edits expressing a distinctly non-neutral POV on the status of Northern Ireland being made by Theraven77 ( talk · contribs), 81.158.101.130 ( talk · contribs), 217.42.114.133 ( talk · contribs) and, most recently, 81.158.100.23 ( talk · contribs) and 86.157.227.132 ( talk · contribs). Ironically, all the IP addresses are from BT Broadband customer IP pools. None of these edits are referenced or have edit summaries, and no attempt has been made to engage in debate on the talk page, despite me adding a request for such. They also tend to be badly written with spelling and typographical errors. Letdorf ( talk) 00:57, 23 December 2008 (UTC).
There seems to be an edit conflict over the inclusion of the pejorative "Tomb of an Unknown Rapist" name for the Soviet War Memorial (Treptower Park). The monument is a major War World II grave and one of the main international symbols for the victory over Nazism. While every major monument in existence has more or less funny pejorative nickname I do not think the inclusion of such an information satisfies WP:UNDUE. I do not think it is appropriate for the article on this War Memorial and I would not want a race in finding pejoratives for other graves and national icons that would follow inclusion of this informations Alex Bakharev ( talk) 02:09, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
An anonymous ip is constructing an elaborate propaganda piece at Turkish genocide, a disambiguation page. Assistance needed. Aramgar ( talk) 22:55, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
hello, to get you in the context of things, there was an issue between assyrianists and arameanists about the 'assyrian people page' arameanists claim that Syriacs are not assyrians rather arameans, while assyrians claim syriacs are infact assyrians. Long story short, some admins got involved and we compromised that the pages should be one, and that instead of just "Assyrian" they be "Assyrian/Syriac" or "Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac", as seen here: [ [45]], and [ [46]]. This was the norm for a while and everyone was happy. User:The TriZ took liberty of changing all previous "Assyrian" to "Assyrian/Syriac" and everyone was fine with that too. Now the issue is that when I tried to do the exact same thing he did but changing "Syriac" to "Assyrian/Syriac" he undoes my posts ... I ask for explanation, and he asks for sources (mind you he provided no sources for Syriac), then I provide him with sources, and he does want to continue to discuss the issue. He impliments his POV in every page without any sources, and when we try to put the accepted neutral stance of "Assyrian/Syriac" title (Which he agreed upon) he is against it. This is POV at its fullest. The pages I am talking about are: [ [47]], [ [48]], [ [49]], [ [50]], and he recently changed "Assyrian" to "Syriac" just recently on this page [ [51]]. I have asked him as to why he keeps doing this on this talkpage but as you will see he does want to discuss. P.S. his moves threaten the neutral "Assyrian/Syriac" titles implemented by admins, If he continues like this then what is the point of keeping his changes from "Assyrian" to "Assyrian/Syriac"? Malik Danno ( talk) 17:17, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Background:
Pula in Romanian means basically dick. This is accepted in the country, and the page on ro wiki is protected for these obvious reasons. Even the wiki disambig page is getting vandalised by Romanian prankers, but many seem to turn a blind eye to this. As a side-note, I notice that Dick has a similar definition for penis, and is as well protected.
The introduction of the term on Wiktionary was as well controversial, and not permited until an established user added it in a very clear form. Before that, some users were even banned for daring to add this definition there.
Conflict:
I've made an edit on the page, reverting the revertal of an unaware bot of the definition. Before this, I looked in the history and I notice many good-faith edits by Romanians have been reverted as vandalism or diverse reasons. There's no discussion on the talk page and I doubt the undo-happy-trigger-people would take too much time to check it out. I've asked some established users on ro wiki to introduce it themselves, but it seems I'm talking to the walls and noone wants to bother.
What I don't understand is why people from other nationalities, that probably most of the times don't even know or bother to find out about words in other languages, take it upon themselves to revert good-faith edits without a second notice.
I'm requesting some form of introducing and keeping it in that disambig page, as the English slang has one on the dick disambig page, it's only fair enough - it's an "important" word in Romanian slang, mainstream (although I have little idea on the references, but if it was finally accepted on Wiktionary some time ago, I guess they found some, anyway this isn't about making an article about it or its uses, just a short line about the meaning of the word).
I'd like to underline again that the word "Pula" in Romanian language has the same meaning and same wide-spread as "Dick" has in English. -- Anime Addict AA ( talk) 17:25, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
An editor started two threads. Dispute is about whether Rostock was a Polish WWII war aim and if the source, Naimark, has an anti-Polish POV.
Since the discussion has become somehow personal and the sentence in question was outright deleted [52], I guess it would need some neutral input. Skäpperöd ( talk) 14:52, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Sometime might remember this. The issue of naming in the South Tyrol (Italian names versus German ones) is now making its way around the noticeboards as a bitterly-fought issue. For example, it's now being contested at ANI. Does anyone know if Arbcom has ever considered the South Tyrol issue? This seems like an area where restrictions like those of WP:ARBMAC could be useful. There seem to be hundreds of kB of discussion in the archives about the South Tyrol naming dispute, but no clear precedent that you can ask people to abide by. In the Gdansk case, at least there was an answer given, and an accepted procedure for changes. If anyone has pointers on where to look, it would be appreciated. EdJohnston ( talk) 17:37, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
There is a very persistent attempt to insert an excerpt from a 1949 CIA Report that is completely unrelated to the article (on the 1947 resolution) and let alone to the section in which it is inserted. The March 1949 CIA Report does not deal with the UN Partition Resolution and is simply a POV written by anonymous writer whose significance and influence are not clear (but even if it were influential and accurate it has nothing to do with the article). Also the cited paragraph is an extreme POV without justification or relevance. two users insist on inserting it. One of them give arguments that are simply off the wall the other one simply calls preventing the insertion "bad faith". I think that it is high time for an intervention. Mashkin ( talk) 19:08, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
There's a single purpose account attacking any information about Italian people in the article White Brazilian. He has clear "pro-Portuguese" aspirations (in a sentence he writes about his "Portuguese" grandparents, when nobody asked him about it [53] then he starts a discussion to include informations about Portuguese not even listed in his sources [54]) then he started to claim that Portuguese are the majority of White Brazilians, and started to undermine the influence of other peoples.
This user was already blocked 2 times (on the same week) for attacking this same article. [55] Now he's dedicated to undermine the influence of Italians, Germans, Arabs, Spaniards, etc, in Brazil [56] [57]. Notice how he tried to enflate the Portuguese and undermine Italians, Arabs and Germans in this edit [58]. Ethnic persecution? Opinoso ( talk) 21:42, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
I'd be grateful if editors could keep an eye on Thebuddah ( talk · contribs) and his recent contributions to Black Stone. He's repeatedly pasting in an unsourced personal essay which, if I understand Dbachmann correctly, is a fringe Hindu nationalist viewpoint that asserts that the Ka'aba in Mecca was originally a Hindu temple. I've advised the editor about Wikipedia's content policies, but the message doesn't seem to have sunk in yet. -- ChrisO ( talk) 12:42, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
I don't know if this is the right place to present this, but I would like somebody that is more familiar with ethnic issues and neutrality policies to take a look at the Marian Cozma article. Marian Cozma is a Romanian hand ball player that was killed by two Hungarian Romani (Gypsy) individuals in Hungary. This led to strong anti-Romani feelings in both Romania and Hungary. I do not mind that this feelings be represented on Wikipedia, but the article is written in such a way so as to enforce those feelings. I think that most of the people that have contributed to the article just used Marian's death as a pretext to promote xenophoby. I have tried to add some other views to add more balance, but I think that the article is still anti-Romani biased in the way that is written. I would like to ask especially to those that understand the Hungarian language, as many of the sources, as well as an Youtube movie, are in Hungarian, a language that I don't understand. Thank you! Kenshin ( talk) 11:08, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
This Dunmanway Massacre, is a an article about an act of political violence in Ireland in April 1922, in which up to 14 people were killed (11 certainly and three disappeared). At least ten and up to thirteen of those killed were Protestants and this has been cited as a sectarian atrocity by the Irish Republican Army - especially by controversial historian Peter Hart. The current version, which I feel is highly Irish Republican pov, advances the thesis that there was no communal conflict between Catholics and Protestants in the area, that those killed have been identified as informers and that the IRA or its members have not been proved to have been responsible. An alternative version, User:Jdorney/Dunmanway_Massacre the details of which have been deleted from the current article, tries to present details of communal conflict - such as the identifiaction of sections of the Protestant poplation with Loyalist politics and the IRA's prior targetting of them by burning thiers houses. This version also tries to take a more neutral tone regarding the modern interpretations of the event. I would appreciate it if editors could compare and contrast the two to try to reach npov in this article. Thanks. Jdorney ( talk) 15:39, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
Yousaf465 ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) has been on an Anti-India propoganda for sometime now.He began with complaining of too much India bias for FAs on Mainpage at time when there was 59 Indian FAs and 1 Pakistani FA. He is now on a spree to get all images that decipts Pakistan as terrorist hub like [59]. His new interest is to push Anti India POV on State-sponsored terrorism ( history) article. With this edit he removed everything related to Pakistan and replacing with India and Israel. His edits were repeatedly revereted by many users including YellowMonkey. YM blocked him for edit waring and POV push on the article. User:Seicer who is soft on Yousaf , unblocked him ( saying that YM didnt respond back in time) and blocked User:24.28.83.178 who had been also reverting Yousuf's POV additions. A new user Maijinsan ( talk · contribs · count) came up from no-where an adding sock tag to many usernames including the above IP editor... It is evident that he himself is a sock. Seicer semi-protected the article and allowed Yousuf to continue to add Anti-India POV statements referenced to Pak dailies which cannot be considered as reliable . I dont want to " edit war" with him and request for third opinions here.-- Tinu Cherian - 12:09, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
There is small danger that SPA account Bizso ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) will start nationalistic edit warring between Croatian and Hungarian users and because of that I will like to see administration decision about personal union problem.
During edit warring in article Croatia in personal union with Hungary user Bizso is not disputing existence of personal union only validity of document with which union is created [61], but in articles he has started to delete title King of Croatia from rulers of this personal union ? For example I will use article about Ferdinand I Habsburg [62] . I really do not have time for looking on internet for old money or old documents about all articles which he has started to change like I have done for Ferdinand I [63]. On money of Ferdinand I is writen: "Ferdinand, by the grace of God king of Bohemia, Hungary, Dalmatia & Croatia, prince of Spain, archduke of Austria, duke of Burgundy & Silesia, margrave of Moravia".
My point is if user has accepted existence of union then it is not possible to question fact that ruler of 1 country of this union is ruler of second country.
Maybe, maybe there is good faith mistake of user Bizso because for him Lands of St. Stephen=Kingdom of Hungary [64] which are in reality different things. Link for article Lands of St. Stephen before massive rewriting of user Bizso [65].
Can somebody please stop this massive rewriting and edit warring ?-- Rjecina ( talk) 16:11, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
The title of the Hungarian rulers was King of Hungary, and not King of Hungary-Croatia. Croatia was governed by a ban. Please, check it on www.britannica.com All the articles are wrong. Most of the articles were changed in February 2007 by various IP addresses. the King of Hungary was not crowned separately as king of Croatia. He was king of the Croatian people as well as king of the Slovaks and king of the residents of Buda and so on, but these are not mentioned in the articles. Croatia was governed by a ban at that time.-- Bizso ( talk) 11:04, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
Rjecina ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
Croatia was part of Kingdom of Hungary from 1102/1091-1918. It is disputed whether Croatia joined to Hungary by a personal union in 1102, or was conquered by Hungary in 1091.It is not disputed that Croatia was given limited internal autonomy over some of her affairs; sometimes more, sometimes less. The Lands of St Stephen was the official name for Kingdom of Hungary. This is stated in virtually all reliable, verifiable sources and historical maps including Britannica 2009 and Encarta. Rjecina cannot accept this fact owing to his patriotic/nationalistic emotions, thus he alters history at least on Wikipedia. What user Rjecina presents is that Kingdom of Hungary and Kingdom of Croatia were two separate independent kingdoms and the only common between them was the ruler. This is in fact not true. Croatia was ruled by Hungarian kings and a ban was appointed to the administrative district that was Croatia. When he asserts these facts, he furthermore doesn't provide any references, or when he does so, the references he cites in fact support the contrary what he states or refer to entirely different historic periods (Kingdom of Croatia before the Hungarian rule). Hence, in fact he attempts to manipulate the reader hoping that she/he doesn't check the references. See. [66] and [67].
See some example sources, including Encyclopedia Britannica 2009 and Encyclopedia Encarta 2009 that state the academic level viewpoint that Croatia was in fact ruled by Hungary, Britannica 1911 especially stating the Croatia was a province of Hungary. Rjecina cannot accept this, thus he censors Wikipedia and engages into edit wars. See Talk:Croatia_in_personal_union_with_Hungary titled Croatia-Slavonia in the Kingdom of Hungary. but it appears he has removed other users relevant and valuable comments again for I don't know how many times now. [68] [69] and again [70]. He deleted my comments too, removing circa 30 sources including Britannica and Encarta among other English academic sources [71] He is stating the Britannica and Encarta peddle Fringe theories Talk:Kingdom_of_Hungary_in_the_Middle_Ages The problem is that Rjecina cannot discuss nor edit these articles in an objective manner, beause he doesn't acknowledge all competing viewpoints. Although this is fair enough, because everyone is entitled to have an opinion regarding a matter. But Wikipedia should be objective on the other hand, and should not include personal reflections and assertions of the users who edit it, without any references.
He introduces false facts [72], in addition he removes Britannica refernces [73] and doesn't respond on the talk page Talk:Croatia#Questions and also fails to explain himself here when he removed references again Talk:Croatia#User:Rjecina. He cannot accept the validity of Britannica, nor the 1911 edition nor the 2009 edition, just because it says something else that he would like to hear. Hence, as he can't edit britannica or encarta, he changes articles on Wikipedia. see Talk:Triune_Kingdom_of_Croatia,_Slavonia,_and_Dalmatia As a result he removes Britannica 2009 refernces 1st time [74], 2nd time [75], 3rd time [76]. 4th time [77] Now, he removes references from Encyclopedia Encarta. [78]. He calls Academic references "Spam" [79] He deliberately maintains ambiguity and makes disruptive edits here [80], [81], here [82], here again [83], again [84], he sometimes deletes it altogether [85] in addition to the citation needed tags [86]. When I add the other competing academic viewpoint (that he personally supports) to an article to balance it out and include all significant viewpoints, he changes that too! [87] Even the one that he supports, which suggests that he is simply stalking me now.
He maintains ambiguity although article is tagged for in need of Copy-Editing [88] However, he also engages in nationalistic conflicts with other users here Talk:Jasenovac_concentration_camp#Removal_of_images and censors images that hurt his nationalistic feelings regarding history of Croatia and Serbia. [89]He not only deletes talk pages, but also censors articles by removing additional realibly sourced information because he can't take it. He removed sourced information from Encyclopedia of the Holocaust by Shelach [90]
He blanks talk pages that do not suit his personal view. He removed sourced references from talk page. [91] [92]Removed even more sourced references from talk page but left other viewpoint there. He deletes the competing academic level viewpoint and on top that removes references and replaces unreferenced tag and maintains a POV frok [93]. He removes citation needed tags and introduces inaccuracy to suit his views, removes other additional information thus maintains biased sentences [94]
On top of all this, he is constantly accusing me of being a socket puppet of other users that dare to question Rjecina's neutral point of view and of those who also oppose Rjecina's nationalistic POV pushing. He calls me Vandal [95], and my edits disruptive [96] without any basis.
He now has started reverting other users' edits too, because he believes that they are me. [97] [98] [99] [100] [101] [102]
Some quotes:
You are facing with group of people coming from Croatia whose hurt nationalistic pride cannot stand seeing these pictures here. These people want only to destroy this article - if not completely then just as much as they can. This is a consequence of Mr Wales' idea that everybody can contibute knowledge - which makes this and other articles unprotected against malice and ignorance.--71.252.55.101 (talk) 20:10, 14 February 2009 (UTC) Actually that groups of people only refer to Rjecina, as he simply patrols pages.
You deleted the truth. You didn't care about the sources, there were only 11 about the conquer of Croatia, but you deleted it Toroko (talk) 23:02, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Although the status of Croatia in the Kingdom of Hungary is still disputed; according to all sources here: Whether you call it conquer, annexation, addition or union; the important thing is that Hungary had control over Croatia, but gave her some extent of internal autonomy within the Kingdom of Hungary (Lands of St. Stephen) and in this relationship Hungary and Croatia were not equal parties--Bizso (talk) 22:01, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
Related talk pages: Talk:Croatia#lol.2C_funny_-_Union_with_Hungary, Talk:Croatia#Congratulations.21, User:Bizso/Reporting_Rjecina#Discussion_2
Therefore I would like to Request the following: User:Rjecina has shown no sign of being capable of distancing himself from his nationalistic/patriotic emotions with regard to the issue on the Valditiy of Pacta Conventa and historical Croatian-Hungarian relations and history of Croatia-Serbia. Hence, User:Rjecina is unable to positively contribute to Wikipedia in an objective manner, which is required by Wikipedia's Policy on Netral Point of View. He is effectively censoring Wikipedia due to patriotic feelings for his recently independent country. He furthermore deliberatly prevents the improvement of Wikipedian articles with regard to these topics by engaging in edit wars and calling other users vandal and disruptive.
As an admin who has had his own fair share of arguments in this section, including a few arguments with User:Rjecina in particular (includes blocking threats), there is probably a part of me that is sympathetic to this request. However, I am not going anywhere near this. I believe I will never block someone solely based on POV-pushing until I am certain that the people opposing are being reasonable, and frankly I'm not going to be confident of that when the other side is blasting away with demands that people be banned without any discussion of alternatives. Do you people honestly believe that nothing short of a full ban is appropriate? Do you people believe that admins will look at this and go along, or don't you think asking for the most extreme situation might turn some people off? Words of advice: you will never get any admin to help out when you blast a wall of text like this. If you have a specific point about conduct, mention that and that alone (with diffs). If you have a specific point about a specific article, point us to the article, the talk page and again with the diffs. Focus. If your argument is that someone else disagrees with you and disputes you and therefore should be banned, that's not going to fly. And Bizso, get rid of all the reports on Rjecina on your talk page if you want to taken remotely seriously. You are turning even the moderates against you. -- Ricky81682 ( talk) 03:56, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
There is a problem on this caegory page: Category:People from Elbląg. As its name states this is a list of people from Elbląg. The city was from 1466 to 1772, and since 1945 again is, part of Poland. Various names were used for it ( see here). Despite this situation user 71.137.194.48 constantly changes the description of the category to People from the Prussian city of Elbing since 1945 known as Elbląg in Poland.
At first he stated that the name Elbląg was invented in 1945. Even though I proved him wrong he still changes the description in the Category People from Elbląg into People from the Prussian city of Elbing. It is a compleatly different description than the categorys name. What is more we all know that state of Prussia does not exist now in any political form and if we wont to say that it "lies in Prussia" we can only refer to a historical region. In Poland those territories that were once part of that region are refered to as Warmia, Pomorze Gdańskie and Mazury. And the city of Elbląg itself lies in a modern region called Warmian-Masurian Voivodship.
In my opinion there are three solutions:
Could you do something about it? I will of course accept every decisiion made by the Admins. Best Wishes 77.253.65.101 ( talk) 16:10, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Hello, can someone take a look at the malicious and politically motivated editing that has been added to the Syrian Social Nationalist Party article recently. Over the past few days the page has been attacked and remade framing the party as a fascist Nazi spin off. The sources being used are all polemicists with a hostile agenda against the party. It seems probable that the editing is being done by a Jewish pro-Zionist editor and his sockpuppets. I suggest reversing the past weeks edits to around this edit [114] and fully protecting the page from any further changes for a while. What do you think? 94.192.38.247 ( talk) 17:56, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
May I draw your attention to Talk:Expulsion of Germans after World War II#RfC: Polish politicians and army comand call for punishment of Germans for Nazi aggression. Skäpperöd ( talk) 20:58, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
A POV-tag has been placed because the article relies much on German sources and therefore must be biased. I strongly disagree a) that there is such a thing as a "German POV", and b) that articles based on sources primarily written by natives of a certain country are automatically biased. If we place POV tags this way, what happens is that articles dealing with topics primarily researched by natives of a particular country have no way to get rid of that tag, regardless how neutral different POVs of these researchers are presented if even these different POVs exist. Please comment on Talk:Flight and expulsion of Germans from Poland during and after World War II/Archive 2#German POV. Skäpperöd ( talk) 20:58, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
I also find it disturbing that with the POV-tag, a refimprove tag was added to the article, because it is containing paragraphs missing inline refs. It makes the article look "in-credible" in the literary sense, despite sources are given and most of the important stuff has inline citations. Even the FAs could be tagged with that refimprove tag, and articles without sources should obviously enough display their need for sources even without that tag. Skäpperöd ( talk) 20:58, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Edit-warring over which nation invented this dish. I tried to be peacemaker, and got personally attacked because of it, and I don't care enough to put up with the tsuris. THF ( talk) 17:23, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
Nonsense, there has been no edit warring about 'who invented this dish' as stated by THF. His behaviour is subversive and WP:GAME. See the Sfiha talk page. 94.192.38.247 ( talk) 18:02, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
This is an article that seems to be undergoing some minor edit warring. Apparently, both sides have edited and deleted each others edits, all due to POV. Looking at the previous edits, the crux of the matter is the view of Hungarian vs. Slovak POV on the event. CardinalDan ( talk) 21:46, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Having just come across the existence of this noticeboard, it seems relevant to mention here the edit warring going on at this article, with currently rather little discussion on the Talk page of the actual edits being made (instead general discussion about the issue, due to the disagreements being so fundamental). If people here have experience of this sort of thing (I don't), their input may be helpful. Rd232 talk 16:21, 24 March 2009 (UTC)
An editor spent several days attempting to rewrite the existing article on this topic, got shot down by consensus, so s/he set up a new page to explain the history of the conflict as it really happened. Like other nations, the Palestinians have their own proprietary universities and university chairs for this kind of special pleading. Historicist ( talk) 17:19, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
A straw poll is currently ongoing about how the Republic of Macedonia should be described in the article Greece and related articles. The name of the RoM is a controversial issue in Greece and a number of articles relating to Greece use a different terminology from that in operation in the rest of Wikipedia. The straw poll proposes that the terminology should be standardised across Wikipedia. Please leave comments at Talk:Greece#Straw poll on the application of the name "Republic of Macedonia" on the article Greece. -- ChrisO ( talk) 00:07, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
User 92.27.15.246 has been adding "grossly offensive racial comments" on some pages. Please see contribs. Montgomery' 39 ( talk) 19:36, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
New article undergoing an AFD. Article presents broader issues. The word “Judaize” is an old term referring to the attraction of some Christians to Jewish theology and practice. This old term has been put to a new political use in the last couple of decades, almost exclusively by individuals, some with university appointments, who are outspoken opponents of the existence of the State of Israel. Islamization is an old coinage referring to the spread of Islam, both political and religious. There is a large literature on Islamizaton going back centuries and covering most of the world. In many parts fo the world, memories of forcess Islamization still rankle. If we are to go this route, it would be equally useful to have articles on the Islamisation of Constantinople the Islamisation of Budapest the Islamisation of France – we can cover the globe! How would we argue against a Greek nationalist who wanted to wirte on Islamization of Constantinople if we have an article on the Judaization of Jerusalem? Do we really want to go there? This material, after all, could form a short paragraph in a more balanced article on Jerusalem. Historicist ( talk) 20:55, 23 March 2009 (UTC)
Comment The article clearly violates all core Wikipedia policies, the subject is defined by pro Arab, anti Israeli sources and is therefore far from anything that would be close to WP:NPOV or even WP:YESPOV that could describe the dispute instead of geting involved with it. As far as I'm concerned, the article could be also named Rejudaization of Jerusalem considering that historically the city was established by Jews and later taken over by Arabs etc. So this is slippery road that the creators of this article have taken and I'm just amazed that such one sided political propaganda like the article is full of is tolerated on Wikipedia.-- Termer ( talk) 05:49, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
This noticeboard, it seems, is functioning only as a place for frustrated editors to vent their frustration, making a noticeboard of no real interest to me. I will close this discussion, with my original point: the article does not comply with WP policy for descriptive names, and at minimum needs to be moved to a new, and more neutral, name. Malcolm Schosha ( talk) 16:26, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
This article has been plagued with issues in its history. Just recently it was subject to two BLP Noticeboard threads ( [117], [118]), a request for comment ( [119]), an Edit-Warring Noticeboard thread ( [120]), to name a few. It was even brought to arbitration which eventually passed resolutions, although they have had little effect as evidenced by this stale Arbitration Enforcement thread ( [121]).
There are legitimate BLP and NPOV concerns (weight, direct quoting, weasel wording), but there is also a pattern of tendentious editing such as removing tags, reintroducing heavily-weighted quoting, etc. The article needs fresh eyes, and I'm nearing the end of my rope on this one. ← Spidern → 13:39, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
I renamed Republic of Macedonia to Macedonia earlier to address a long-running dispute over the article name; the policy rationale is at Talk:Macedonia#Article move. Input from editors with an interest in ethnic conflicts would be welcomed. -- ChrisO ( talk) 21:41, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
You did not address a long-running dispute. You just destroyed the delicate balance there was between the two communities and singlehandedly sabotaged all relating articles, which will naturally be attacked after the fanaticism you brought on. You knew perfectly well what would happen and you decided to ignore logic and common sense to create a problematic situation. Well done! GK1973 ( talk) 23:36, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
Although the move is backed up by valid sources, I'm not sure whether that was a good idea, given the existing tensions. It was not a bad thing per se, but it'll definitely draw heat. — Admiral Norton ( talk) 13:09, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone know anything about Kurds, Syrians, and the best reliable sources for writing about them, and want to wade into the waters of this article? It looks like there's an edit-war between two different not-very-neutral versions. - FisherQueen ( talk · contribs) 02:07, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
I'd like to notify editors that there is an RfC here where the request is that the term Hamastan be described, first and foremost, as a pejorative. The issue is whether this meets NPOV standards and is reliably sourced. Outside views would be welcomed. Jaakobou Chalk Talk 22:41, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
it is known to majority that in islam, making pictures of living things is near to be forbidden. it is being told in islam clearly that peoples who make pictures of living things and humans will be punished the most on the day of the judgment. for that reason islamic culture move towards calligraphy etc. In wikipedia when i search for the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, there are some pictures who portray Muhammad peace be upon him. which not only hurt muslims as muslims themselves have never tried to made any sculpture or picture of said personality. nor this practice is being done for any other famous figure related to islam and its history. offcorse not by muslims. i humbly requests wikipedia to delete those pictures. i dont think they are very relevant to the topic also. i found that article complete without them too. ofcorse its not wikipedia by which i or we learn our Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, as we have much more trusted medias to do so. but i came to know about this by facebooks cause. this is no good practice. i really pledge for this issue. to be addressed as soon as possible. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Innocent danger ( talk • contribs) 11:04, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
hello, to get you in the context of things, there was an issue between assyrianists and arameanists about the 'assyrian people page' arameanists claim that Syriacs are not assyrians rather arameans, while assyrians claim syriacs are infact assyrians. Long story short, some admins got involved and we compromised that the pages should be one, and that instead of just "Assyrian" they be "Assyrian/Syriac" or "Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac", as seen here: [ [122]], and [ [123]]. This was the norm for a while and everyone was happy. User:The TriZ took liberty of changing all previous "Assyrian" to "Assyrian/Syriac" and everyone was fine with that too. Now the issue is that when I tried to do the exact same thing he did but changing "Syriac" to "Assyrian/Syriac" he undoes my posts ... I ask for explanation, and he asks for sources (mind you he provided no sources for Syriac), then I provide him with sources, and he does want to continue to discuss the issue. He impliments his POV in every page without any sources, and when we try to put the accepted neutral stance of "Assyrian/Syriac" title (Which he agreed upon) he is against it. This is POV at its fullest. The pages I am talking about are: [ [124]], [ [125]], [ [126]], [ [127]], and he recently changed "Assyrian" to "Syriac" just recently on this page [ [128]]. I have asked him as to why he keeps doing this on this talkpage but as you will see he does want to discuss. P.S. his moves threaten the neutral "Assyrian/Syriac" titles implemented by admins, If he continues like this then what is the point of keeping his changes from "Assyrian" to "Assyrian/Syriac"? Malik Danno ( talk) 17:17, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
There is an edit war with the Piracy in Somalia page. I suggested to the two editors involved that their edits were taking on characteristics of an edit war, and asked them both to take a one week holiday from editing the article... however both insist on having the last word. Both insist that what they are doing is needed for NPOV, and one of them uses [OR] to justify removing anything that he disagrees with. Both are clearly well-intentioned people. It really needs some neutral people to become involved.-- Toddy1 ( talk) 05:17, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
- "Since the Somali government collapsed in 1991, including the coast guard, there have been a lot of questions regarding the motivations and intentions of the so-called "pirates"."
- "However, no efforts from the international community have been conducted on behalf of the people of Somalia to deter and punish multinational corporations for their violation of international law."
- "In terms of territorial sovereignty, there has been a lack of questions regarding the illegal presence of these "victim tankers" off of the coast of Somalia"
- "European ships began dumping millions of barrels of toxic waste into the ocean off the Somali coast."
- "I must stress however, that no government has endorsed this act, and that private companies and individuals acting alone are responsible,"
- Ould-Abdallah said piracy will not prevent waste dumping.
- "The intentions of these pirates are not concerned with protecting their environment," he said.
- "What is ultimately needed is a functioning, effective government that will get its act together and take control of its affairs."
- that piracy will not prevent the dumping of waste, "The intentions of these pirates are not concerned with protecting their environment,", and "What is ultimately needed is a functioning, effective government that will get its act together and take control of its affairs.
- that piracy will not prevent waste dumping: "The intentions of these pirates are not concerned with protecting their environment," and "What is ultimately needed is a functioning, effective government that will get its act together and take control of its affairs.
Horn of Africa is a region with many serious international conflicts and problems. Sadly, the section on 'culture' was in a state of serious neglect until my edits of the last few days. One of the editors seems to think that my edits threaten his nationalist interest, hence he wrote the following comment on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Scoobycentric ... "I constantly find myself caught in the most retarded edit wars on this silly site. Right now brother, there are two I'm involved in. The first I've pretty much got under control and that's on the Piracy in Somalia page. However, the second one could be a major problem. Some Afrocentrist has just targeted the Horn of Africa page, and he's been adding things that don't really jibe with reality and that are too pro-Ethiopia (you know how they're obsessed with Habesha! lol)."
I suspect it is me that 'Middayexpress' is falsely labelling an 'Afrocentrist'. I approached the article with the clear and stated intention of dealing in a neutral way with all of the states and ethnic groups in the region and an absolute hostility to any kind of ethno-centricism - a position I have outlined and defended in the talk page. This is not true of Middayexpress, whose primary interest is Somalia. That is fine, but what is not fine is his belligerent attitude and his absurd removal of a picture of the leading sportsman of the region just because he is Ethiopian. I'd be grateful for some assistance in helping this editor to realise that there are four states in the region, not just the one. Ackees ( talk) 01:28, 26 April 2009 (UTC) Ackees ( talk) 01:29, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
"Some Afrocentrist has just targeted the Horn of Africa page, and he's been adding things that don't really jibe with reality and that are too pro-Ethiopia (you know how they're obsessed with Habesha! lol). I've re-balanced the page, but he'll probably be back soon enough... Nice edits bro. The page was too Ethio-centric, so I tried to add some Somali info to it to balance it out a bit."
I'm going to ignore the WP:HOUNDING by you Ackees. Suspicion of you having a 'agenda' is not without 'warrant' I remember your name from when i visited the E1b1b article's talkpage(only a month ago) when you were edit-warring with several wiki-editors about the image of a Somali politician and how he in your eyes didn't look Somali [129]. Other than stating that the Somali Politician resembled a Greek/Mexican you failed to make your point why he didn't look Somali and resorted to blame it all on the 'White racist Boogeymen'. If anyone is feeling their 'interests are 'threatened' by reliable sources it would be you since you have a clear pre-conceived image of what Somalis are supposed to look like and therefore probably also the Horn of Africa! Your history again on a deleted section of the E1b1b clearly demonstrates that you have an agenda that you are pursuing [130]. There another editor made it clear that 'race' was not an obselete term but was still very much a subject of debate, Middayexpress also made the same point here [131]. The majority Ethnic groups of the Horn of Africa constitute a clear distinct population from the rest of Africa. Wether it's the majority Cushitic/Ethiopic languages that are only found there, the unique Cultural heritage, the classical Horn of African phenotype evolved over thousands of years, or the genetical markers predominant in Horn Africans and which originated in the Horn of Africa. Highlighting this is not 'racism' as Midday has given you plenty of scholars that follow this line of thinking. Your edits on sports page with regards to countries such as Somalia and Djibouti were horrible hence why both me and Middayexpress began balancing it out by adding Somali athletes -- Scoobycentric ( talk) 05:16, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
Dear Scooby,
First you falsely accuse me of WP:HOUNDING - and then immediately admit that after hounding me a month ago on the Haplogroup_E1b1b_(Y-DNA), you faithfully obeyed Middayexpress's command to come and hound me some more on the Horn of Africa page [132]. All 'populations' are distinct from, or are indeed linked to, all others - depending on whatever arbitrary measure one wishes to use. For example, if we were to take the 'far right' as our arbitrary category, then crypto-fascist Euro-Americans pretending to be Somali nationalists are a 'distinct population' from neo-fascist North Italians eager to relive the glories of Il Duce. Nevertheless, both are linked by a common pseudo-scientific anti-rational heritage that remains obsessed with 19th-century myths about 'race', 'racial purity', 'racial difference' etc, etc. However, I'm glad that you, Middayexpress and all decent editors are uniting with the consensus to purge such ideologically-driven nonsense from the scientific pages of Wikipedia. Ackees ( talk) 14:18, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Could a number of more informed fellow admins take a look at this thread (and its sub-threads) over at Occupation of the Baltic states? User:Dojarca who represents what I'll call the current Russian nationalist view of events asked me to take a look at the POV of the article with concerns that it is anti-Russian in tone, which given the topic of the article should not be a huge surprise. My request is for others to weigh in on trying to hash out some more neutral middle ground, either with a page move, or changes to the article. I really haven't made much progress as everyone on the talk page seems to be shouting past me. I also have not made any changes to the article itself. All thoughts are greatly appreciated! Hiberniantears ( talk) 16:40, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
The changes I made yesterday go a long way to bringing the article back to a more NPOV presentation... and I did that without adding or removing a thing. That said, we can probably move the conversation back to the article page since it appears nobody reads this board unless they are monitoring my own contributions. Hiberniantears ( talk) 11:19, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, I'm not particularly familiar with the rules behind WP:CANVASS but do people think User:Kasaalan listing Public reactions to death of Rachel Corrie and the deletion as a cleanup projection and a deletion review (it's actually at AFD) at Portal:Palestine/Opentask could be a issue? Since I was the one who nominated it for deletion, would it be appropriate to list it somewhere at Wikipedia:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration so that everyone collaborating on the topic can review? I consider Rachel Corrie a topic that affects both sides of the dispute but it seems Kasaalan disagrees. An outside view? -- Ricky81682 ( talk) 20:03, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
Look, asking editors that share your viewpoint to come comment on an AfD is a common practice. I disapprove of it though, and wanted to say something to Kasaalan about it but didn't want to come off as rude. BTW, user Ceedjee is more biased towards the Israeli viewpoint as indicated on his userpage and I have seen many pro-Israeli users ask him for his input, so this user may not share Kasalaan's viewpoint. The right course of action in order to avoid escalation, Ricky (I know you to be a reasonable, sensible person), is to ask Kasalaan to refrain from selectively inviting people. If you were not sure on whether Kasaalan's actions were against policy and you are merely seeking advice, you should have made your post more general. Noticeboard isn't a helpdesk. Since we are casting suspicion on voters at the AfD, are you going to comment on Somno's involvement? I don't think Somno in particular is in the place to accuse Kasaalan of policy violations such as "votestacking and meatpuppetry". It is clear on Kasaalan's talk page that s/he had/have a dispute with Kasaalan over another unrelated article. I don't see Somno in the AfD, DRV, editing history. Perhaps s/he is trying to antagonize Kasaalan by voting delete for an article Kasaalan wishes to save? See the bad faith allegations can be thrown from both sides. I don't think they are useful and I hope people would stop making them. - Falastine fee Qalby ( talk) 19:13, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
- Very much appreciated, my motive is letting editors know about the voting beforehand. Since I created a deletion review, yet most of our dedicated page editors not voted, it turned on a contrary base. Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Artistic_Tributes_to_Rachel_CorrieWikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2009_April_16 Most users don't even read before they vote, and on behalf of their political views. So if you please have a look to the articles first. Last revision [1] copy of the article is available for your review.
- "My potential biases about this subject are : * a higher empathy for Jewish culture and history than for Arab or Islamic culture. * a higher empathy for Zionism than for Arab and Palestinian nationalisms. * a categorical rejection of antisemitism; a rejection of any form of racism as a rule and rejection of racism towards Arabs and/or Muslims ie Islamophobia.
Kasaalan, Philip Munger is irrelevant to this discussion - this is about your selective notification of others about an AFD. I have explained copyright violation to you several times, and it's off-topic here. Please feel free to look into my involvement - I tried to clean up a copyright-violating article in February, which unfortunately was created by Kasaalan. I have recently monitored his/her edits to protect the encyclopedia where possible, and I do not care about Rachel Corrie, Israel, Palestine or any of the related topics. I am just tired of Kasaalan's tendentious editing, insults, edit warring, POV pushing and possible votestacking, and I wish this situation were resolved. Somno ( talk) 05:11, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
Also if you were right about "your might-be-canvas-concern" I should have also left invitation for overturn keep voter if I had vote-in-the-bag approach. Why do you think I didn't do that. I posted messages on active project and main page editors, along with public announcements. But I will copy Alansohn's overturn reason from previous deletion review.
Overturn Deep down inside, before I saw the details, my personal political biases on the subject were assuming that this couldn't possibly merit a standalone article; This had to be a blatantly POV fork. In reviewing the article under discussion, I see clear encyclopedic handling of a topic that has received far more media coverage than I ever realized, providing several dozen reliable and verifiable sources to support the material in the article. In looking at the parent article, there is a section on tributes, and a merge would largely overwhelm the parent article. This is exactly what forks are for. The consensus in the AfD was extremely muddled, and while there were calls for a merge, there seems to be no way that the results of the AfD could have been read to support any one result, and least of all merge. I would suggest using a lower case "t" in the second word of the title. Alansohn
Moreover if you really bother to do a search, you can easily see I picked the editors to be noted, from project and main page discussions, not from Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Artistic_Tributes_to_Rachel_Corrie keep voters, if that would be the case, I would also notify alanshon, mgm or yamanam. You make every effort to spread your concerns everywhere systematically, and how do you expect me to discuss it only here. I wanted this case to be discussed, by help of relevant editors, which are active main and project page editors apparently. Some dedicated delete or keep voters won't help the discussion anyway. Kasaalan ( talk) 12:16, 7 May 2009 (UTC) It is not right to discuss a page's existence with only afd watchers, and simply putting a link in the discussion page didn't lead much discussion about the content, but turned out a keep or delete voting. Kasaalan ( talk) 12:20, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
Actually I can go on discussion fully, but after the related admin closed the discussion in 3 days, without letting people fully talk and get the issue over with approach, I am fully frustrated that, even if anyone ban me for my inexperienced yet good-intended public attempts to getting this issue discussed, I couldn't care less. So can the admin tell me what is the worst punishment I will get, if I say I have the worse intention on earth in history, while accusers are angels from heaven. 3 month ban, 6 month ban, article ban, anything but a full account deletion is fine by me, just get this over with. Yet I will never quit from my approach of inclusion instead censorship, creation over deletion, voicing minor voices over major ones, alternative media against mainstream ones, local yet notable artists over famous ones, and the ones that have been killed over the ones who killed them. I can clearly say, all the jurisdical process in wikipedia currently is highly bureucratic, non-productive and most of the case either a waste of time or dependant of the judgement of 1-2 admin most of the cases, so a better review system required. And wikipedia needs a better organisation, simpler, shorter and better guidelines, that can be fully read, understand and applied by every editor and admin, even in highly disputable cases. Bias and prejiduce applies by lots of the users in all the article page discussions that I have been participated over recent months. All the user and article dependent personal approachs to the guidelines are ultimately harmful, and can be considered as the leading threat that keeps wikipedia from reaching to a higher quality with better integrity. Kasaalan ( talk) 01:43, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
New user Mystery.sin ( talk · contribs) is repeatedly removing all references to the historical Armenian community from the article on their alleged hometown. I have warned this user about blanking and removal of content and also left him or her a note regarding their insistence that nobody is interested in historical figures. I don't want to get caught in an edit war and so would appreciate some extra eyes here. Thanks, Kafka Liz ( talk) 11:40, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
PinoyFilAmPride ( talk · contribs) has been dispruptive in this article for the past week. This user has also been distruptive in the talk page article, such as providing personal point of view information and other issues. The user has also removed academic reference in the information article with out providing a valid reason. Please help, investigate and resolve this problem. Thank you. IQfur01 talk 21:50, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
We've recently made some efforts to remove the strong anti-LTTE POV in Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam, but some disagreements with the article persist. At Talk:Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam#Improved Intro, John harvey125 ( talk · contribs) first argued that organizations cannot commit crimes, only individuals of an organization. He has also claimed, much to my chagrin, that since LTTE members have not been convicted of committing murder and assassinations, then we cannot report the parties as being guilty. However, numerous sources have attributed the LTTE to a variety of attacks and assassinations over the last 25 years. I have argued that we are supposed to report what the sources are telling us, but John harvey125 believes that this is defamatory and against real life laws. Could someone please comment on the talk page? Nishkid64 ( Make articles, not wikidrama) 01:56, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
Just wanna point out that everytime LTTE is mentioned in other articles its almost always followed by "they are proscribed as terrorists by 32 countries". this seems pointless and unnecessary and some sort of attempt to circumvent the WP:TERRORIST, I mean you could just about follow every mention of the sri lanka government with "they have been kicked out the UN Human Rights Council for gross human rights violations". I mean you can see how rediculous that is. -- Icemansatriani ( talk) 01:09, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
It would probably be easier to call them "terrorist organization" but that is of course POV, which is why it is attributed in that clumsy way. In most of the articles, the LTTE are mentioned because of their militant activities, which probably warrants the inclusion of some background info. In articles unrelated to war, the so-called terrorist nature of the LTTE probably need not be mentioned, but there do not seem to be that many of them. Internal structure of the LTTE probably would not require the "terrorist 32" info, neither would List of villages founded by the LTTE or similar articles. Jasy jatere ( talk) 08:07, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
GoSL are no angels either, but there is a difference in degree between being kicked out of HR council and being called "terrorist". The latter is much more notable than the former. Jasy jatere ( talk) 08:07, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
There is currently some discussion regarding whether the name "North Cyprus" should be included as an alternate name of Northern Cyprus on the article's talk page, as I have recently been informed on my own talk page. There seems to me in any event to be some justification for the use of the name, as some Google news hits here, google books hits here, and Google Scholar hits here, all clearly use the name "North Cyprus", even if not all of those hits use it necessarily as a proper name. Any reasonable input on the matter on the article's talk page would likely be welcomed. Thank you. John Carter ( talk) 19:45, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
In my view there are some problems at the Cornwall article, although i am the only one who appears to see it and everybody there would like to ignore my concerns. Cornwall is a county of England and has been part of England for 100s of years and this is not disputed by the vast majority of the population of Cornwall. The main problem at the moment is in the introduction where it currently states
My concern is the article is declaring Cornwall a "celtic nation" despite this not being a majority held or mainstream view and without valid neutral 3rd party sources. Now there is no doubt Cornwall has a rich celtic history and that organisations such as Celtic League (political organisation) and Celtic Congress consider Cornwall one of the 6 Celtic Nations, but these are political organisations with a clear interest in promoting a certain point of view. In my opinion the sentence does not even belong in the introduction, but the other editors on the article have refused to even allow an explanation as to WHO describes Cornwall as a Celtic Nation. Without that explanation, this seems grossly misleading and could be offensive to some. There also seems to be a problem at Celtic Nations where i am not the only one who has raised concerns about declaring a place like Cornwall a Celtic Nation, without proper explanation as to who has and what others think about it. At the moment because i am the only editor who seems to have a problem with the wording, it is impossible for me to make the changes with out them being reverted, so i placed some tags on the article but those are also continuing to be removed. Please can someone suggest what i should do next or should i simply leave the article the way it is if i think its misleading the reader? Thank you BritishWatcher ( talk) 09:32, 12 May 2009 (UTC) I have restored my post as the recent change which removed the problem has been undone and the editor responsible said i should see what the admins say here. BritishWatcher ( talk) 11:14, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
The interesting thing about your comments British watcher, is that although you feign objectivity with your calls for 3rd party sources etc etc, you are blatantly using this for your own particular poltical agenda. Your username and Union Flag with motto shout out your Unionist political views, to which you are entitled no doubt- yet render your comments on Cornwall, the Celtic nature of Cornwall and so on, completely and utterly biased and one sided. As a Cornishman, I could tear your argument about Cornwall being part of England to bits. You make assumption after assumption about what is mainstream view or not, based on what may I ask? Where are your facts? I ask myself if you have ever been to Kernow..oops, that's a bit too Celtic, Cornwall?
14.05.09
At the bottom of the Talk page for this article, a Wiki user makes comments saying that "for their own safety," Jews need to hide their Jewishness. (Apparently, this user pulled something similar on an article about Mila Kunis and the Adyghe people.) I'm new, and I'm wondering how to play this and if anything can be done.( DarkKnight613 ( talk) 19:54, 18 May 2009 (UTC))
This is related to the short thread "Little monkeys" close above. That part of it can be considered resolved. Unfortunately the bad feeling underlying it cannot.
There are multiple disputes among a number of editors, and particularly between two, over White Brazilian, German Brazilian, and so forth. These seem to reflect two points of view, which I think I can describe very simply here but about which I'll remain silent: those interested are free to work them out for themselves, and I'll avoid the risk of being accused of misinterpretation.
I first noticed complaints at WP:AN/I. I was a late arrival to this and noted the tiredness with which people greeted these complaints. At least one of the dismissive comments made on a complaint struck me as fatuous and I took the time to look at what was involved. I was surprised to see that some of the complaints were about apparently clearcut matters; see Template talk:Largest cities of Brazil.
The closest I have been to Brazil is Manhattan and I know very little about Brazil and its history. So I'm uneducated and uninformed, but I hope I'm open minded. I arrived with the intention of being evenhandedly sceptical and firm, and I hope that I am still fair. However, I've gradually come to respect the efforts of one of the two parties in this brouhaha and think I may be on the verge of losing patience with the other. I don't think that this would necessarily be bad. Still, if I did lose patience I'd probably be accused of bias. And so I invite another administrator to take a long look through Talk:White Brazilian and to step in. (Another reason: "RL" is about to take up a lot of my time.) -- Hoary ( talk) 03:49, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Voting or commenting on each segment of the Proposed guidelines in relation to remedy 13.1 of the recently closed West Bank - Judea and Samaria arbitration case. Please comment here on preferred usage in the West Bank/Judea and Samaria area, to determine consensus by July 13th 2009.
The more comments/votes/consensus, the better. We really need to firm up consensus by community input into some of these areas to reduce the drain on admin and editor resources in policing naming disputes. Casliber ( talk · contribs) 14:26, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
See [144] and all contribs. He is putting hoaxes on 2008 attacks on North Indians in Maharashtra even when we warned him. All warnings are gone from his talk. Some more bad eits also ocurred. See history
i hope its the right place ( WP:AIV asks for recent disruption and I don't smell a 3RR violation.) Hometech ( talk) 19:12, 27 May 2009 (UTC)
This article urgently needs an eye. I toned it down a bit, stating at the beginning that the story is an "allegation". I hope I've done it correctly, but I'm not an expert on the former Yugoslavia conflict. It does seem to be a very important issue and our article on it ought to be impeccably in line with NPOV policy. Itsmejudith ( talk) 14:44, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
Is it Ok that almost half of the article is dedicated to "controversies", most of which are not even notable? For instance, allegations in Belorussian media were never officially confirmed, and their reliability is doubted even in Belarus. The Iranian image was never a controversy, because the Iranian government never objected to its inclusion. The only real controversy was the Armenian-Azerbaijani picture scandal, and it received enough coverage. It now seems that the controversy section is being expanded beyond any reasonable limit, as if the speculations in non-notable media are the most important info about one of the top 3 Eurovision 2009 entires. Grand master 12:23, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Following the conclusion of the recent Macedonia Arbcom case, there is now a new centralized discussion at Wikipedia:Centralized discussion/Macedonia, to decide on the final page title for the Macedonia (country) article and to finalize a general guideline on how to refer to the country in other articles. Fresh input will be welcome. Fut.Perf. ☼ 08:51, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
User Ninguém reported that Argentine "love to call Brazilians macaquitos (little monkeys in Spanish).
Systematically using the verbiage "afro-brasileiro" instead of negro is POVed: it is the Point of View that Brazilian culture is not essentially different from North-American culture, and that American usage can be employed in explaining it without further clarification and qualification. In this way, Brazil become a mere intellectual suburb of the United States, a country with no cultural autonomy, or - like our "hermanos" would love to point - a pack of macaquitos, always trying (and failing) to copy the intellectual fads in the metropolis. [145]
I think this is an ethnic issue, since this user is claiming that people from Argentina call people from Brazil of "little monkeys". This type of comments should be allowed to be posted in talk pages of articles. This is a mere disruption and offensive for both Argentine and Brazilians. Opinoso ( talk) 17:46, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
We need a few more eyes (again) on Greater and Lesser Tunbs ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), an article about a minor territorial dispute in the Persian Gulf. Two editors stubbornly revert-war to monopolise the article with the POV of their country, denying even the existence of a dispute (which, needless to say, is abundantly sourced and notable). This is very much a long-term problem and has been going on with interruptions for years. It has reached a point where further discussion seems senseless: these two editors simply do not want this project to be neutral; there is thus no basis for cooperative dispute resolution. Fut.Perf. ☼ 19:55, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
This is a reference to something I've been trying to get changed over the past couple of days but I keep being reverted. The relevant paragraph currently reads:
The city of Jerusalem is of special importance to Jews, Muslims and Christians as it is the home of sites that are pivotal to their religious beliefs, such as the Old City that incorporates the Western Wall and the Temple Mount, the Al-Aqsa Mosque and the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. Other landmarks of religious importance are located in the West Bank, among them the birthplace of Jesus and Rachel's Tomb in Bethlehem, and the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron.
My issue that all the sites mentioned lie in East Jerusalem or the West Bank. Neither of these Occupied Territories are generally regarded as part of Israel and therefore should not be mentioned in this section without qualification. There have been numerous UN motions in both the security council and general assembly on this matter and most Western nations regard the final fate of Jerusalem as a matter to be settled. For this reason, it is my view that the unqualified inclusion of these sites in an article on Israel carries with it an implication that they are in that country and therefore violates WP:NPOV by giveing WP:Undue weight to a nationalist position. My last three edits (one each for 20th, 21st and 22nd of this month) are attempted fixes. I've tried approaches such as describing the Old City as "administered by Israel since the Six Day War" but keep on being reverted with the reverters either stating baldly that the Old City is in Israel, nitpicking about one part of East Jerusalem (Mount Scopus) being already Israeli pre-67, or claiming that the mention of the occupied territories as an issue in another section is sufficient. In all cases the text qualifying the implication that these sites are in Israel has been removed. I don't think the text as it stands is acceptable but the discussion thread I started Talk:Israel#Religious_sites_in_Old_City_are_not_internationally_recognised_as_being_in_Israel has received no response. Therefore I feel the need to escalate to this board.-- Peter cohen ( talk) 16:10, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
Originally, I was going to go to ANI but this issue is big. Mass rape in the Bosnian War has a section that was reinserted even though it was a strong BLP violation: Individuals convicted of war crimes related to mass rape. Even though there is no such thing as "mass rape", there is a list for this neologism. Furthermore, the list is not an attempt at fairness, neutrality, or anything. It is a part of a great claim that Serbs, not individuals but the whole ethnicity, committed "mass rape". Ottava Rima ( talk) 18:29, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
The Centralized discussion set up to decide on a comprehensive naming convention about Macedonia-related naming practices is now inviting comments on a number of competing proposals from the community. Please register your opinions on the RfC subpages 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.
Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:23, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Reporting IP 69.116.12.93 for deleting references to Armenian and Greek ethnic conflict in Turkey in 20th century. Requesting comment and administrator action. Thanks! Jaybird vt ( talk) 01:55, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
This is in regard of the article "List of cities by time of continuous habitation". The location keeps getting changed by diferent parties from Israel to Palestine to Israel/Palestine to "see status of Jerusalem" etc... East Jerusalem is considered by the international community as part of the occupied territories of Palestine and hence the location should indicate such as issue. I believe this needs a resolution.
Yes, I was hoping for some sort of lock on the editting of the location, to change the location to something that's more internationally accepted such as Israel/Palestine or a link to "the status of Palestine". I am not sure if that's doable, but i sure there is a way to make sure that the location doesn't keep getting editted to something that suits the editor's Point of view! -- 02:49, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
This is a notice of a request for arbitration I initiated to try to force a centralised discussion of a roving content dispute. Comments welcome. (I started it at a time that really wasn't the most practical from my own POV so am being a bit slow at issuing notices and deciding who to add as parties, but hopefully will be catching up this week.)-- Peter cohen ( talk) 09:58, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
I think an administrative eye and eprhaps action could be useful regarding recent edits to this section. This edit for example is captioned "rv unRS" and removes material referenced to 13 different sources some of which (Turkish weekly and the Indo-Asian News Service, for example) certainly striek me as reliable.-- Peter cohen ( talk) 22:17, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
There is an edit war currently escalating as regards the composer Aram Khachaturian: he was born on the territory of Georgia in the family with Armenian roots. From yesterday on I spotted more than 10 corrections of the article opening from "Soviet-Georgian" to "Soviet-Armenian". My attempt to [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Aram_Khachaturian#Proposal_of_a_compromise mediate and to elaborate a more neutral wording] was not accepted. Alaudo ( talk) 09:00, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
Over the last several days a major incident has occurred which puts Wikipedia’s neutrality concerning the Israel-Palestine conflict in question and on the line. It deals with the creation of the Anti-Israel lobby in the United States, [147] as well as a non-discussed page move [148], which changes the Israel lobby in the United States to the Pro-Israel lobby in the United States [149]. These major changes are the work of a single editor, using largely biased and one-sided references and great amounts of WP:OR and WP:SYNTH. Because this is growing rapidly, it is beyond what any set of editors can correct, and must be discussed at an admin level and corrected.
The SYNTH, appears to revolved around the assumption that any criticism of the Israeli government/policy equals being “anti-Israeli”. This is not the case generally (though those may exist at the fringe); It is more accurately opposion to particular ideologies within that body politic. Is synonymous with saying that any American or foreigner who disagrees with US government policy is “anti-American”? This is ridiculous on its face.
To do this quickly, there are two quick examples included in the "anti" article I can provide, which will refute some of the new article’s SYNTH. The first is WRMEA, which states on its ‘about’ page, “The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs does not take partisan domestic political positions. As a solution to the Palestinian-Israeli dispute, it endorses U.N. Security Council Resolution 242´s land-for-peace formula, supported by seven successive U.S. presidents. In general, the Washington Report supports Middle East solutions which it judges to be consistent with the charter of the United Nations and traditional American support for human rights, self-determination, and fair play.” [150] This it their official stated position; it is not “anti-Israel”, though may be seen by some as such. That is not NPOV; that is POV’d synth. The second example is the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, which states its position regarding the Middle East as “Encouraging a balanced U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East.” [151] This likewise is not by neutral definition “anti-Israel.” This article must be discussed and should be deleted immediately; it is only one biased side of a very complicated issue. I can see lfew other neutral alternatives.
The undiscussed name-change for the Pro-Israel lobby in the United States, is based on one new reference which notes that particular phrase being “calculated” as the "mildest" opposition. It does not say that the ref is by a columnist that has strong pro-Israeli credentials (it will take me a while to find that RS). I should note that the ref was added by the same editor and has been accepted; I myself improved its grammar and have no argument with the thought. That however, did not mean that it was accepted as neutral and is sufficient to move the page.
This issue is of extreme importance and must be dealt with quickly and effectively. Regards, CasualObserver'48 ( talk) 02:44, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
Please see section in question here ► RATEL ◄ 15:42, 19 July 2009 (UTC)
The article on Roald Dahl has long had a section on his anti-Semitic remarks. It was there before I reached the article; however, I contributed to the section, by looking through the biography of him by literary scholar Jeremy Treglown, which I happened to own, and by finding an interview from shortly before his death where he seemed to admit to having become anti-Semitic.
Every now and then, a user would try to delete or alter the section. Their argument was that his statements were anti-Israel, not anti-Jewish. I disagreed, pointing out that his most notorious remarks were specifically directed at Jews, though they were framed in the context of his views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I've seen many famous people accused of racism or anti-Semitism, and I've rarely seen a more clear-cut case than Dahl. To deny it is ludicrous, effectively denying the ordinary definition of words. It should be noted that the biographer Treglown, while suggesting that Dahl's grievances with Israel (during the Lebanon War in 1982) were justified, still unhesitatingly called Dahl an anti-Semite.
A while back, a user named Ratel came to the page. We argued for a while, but finally reached an agreement on how the section should look. Both of us compromised a little, and I don't think either of us were satisfied with the final product, but we were willing to accept it. Part of the disagreement was over the section's title. It was originally called simply "Antisemitism." Others wanted it to be called "Allegations of Antisemitism," but those of us who think Dahl's remarks were clearly anti-Semitic find the idea of it being a mere "allegation" insulting. For a while, I had the section titled "Antisemitic remarks," to make it clear that the article wasn't casting a judgment on Dahl himself, but simply reporting on what he said. Ratel and I eventually agreed on calling it "Literary Review controversy," because most of what was included in the section sprang from that one incident, though Treglown's biography mentioned other incidents.
Ratel put into the section information about Dahl's views on the Lebanon War, and I agreed to include a quote from a friend of Dahl's who defended him from the antisemitism charge (sort of). It stayed in that form for a while, but recently we've begun arguing again over it, and I feel we're at an impasse. The record of our arguments can be found on the Talk Page to the article on Dahl, and I'm going to invite Ratel to this page, to provide his/her side to the story. marbeh raglaim ( talk) 19:54, 17 July 2009 (UTC)
The links you provide only show that Felicity Dahl did not authorize the biography; they do not say she accused it of being full of lies. The book has been positively reviewed in many credible media outlets ( New York Times: "Mr. Treglown has produced a scrupulously fair-minded and revealing, if hardly affectionately intimate, account"; The Independent: "Jeremy Treglown treats his complex subject with admirable objectivity"). In any case, Treglown's book provides several sources for the incidents discussed, and these can be corroborated. Here are the secondary sources he mentions:
The New Statesman, Aug. 26, 1983
Sebastian Faulks, The Daily Telegraph, Sep. 18, 1983
files of the Literary Review
He also mentioned interviews with Sir Isaiah Berlin, Robert Gottlieb, Brough Girling, and David Wolton.
Your statement that Dahl's views never made their way into his fiction isn't true; his book Sometime Never reportedly featured a negatively stereotyped Jewish character, and "Madame Rosette" describes its title character as a "filthy old Syrian Jewess." The Literary Review fiasco was not an isolated incident; he not only made the "trait in the Jewish character" remark later, he also accused Jews of being cowards, and falsely claimed hardly any of them served in the British Forces during WWII. Treglown's book claimed he had a history of telling anti-Semitic jokes and engaging in stereotypes. None of this is mentioned in the Wikipedia article, because only the Literary Review incident received wide publicity, but to say he had no pattern of anti-Semitic behavior is simply false.
Your contention that Dahl's explicitly and undeniably anti-Jewish remarks constitute only "very flimsy evidence" of anti-Semitism is absurd. All you're doing is making excuses for them, then hiding under the "notability" criterion as an excuse for removing this material from the article and depriving readers of the opportunity to judge the evidence for themselves. Numerous Wikipedia articles of public figures discuss accusations of anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry, and most of the time these are based on far more ambiguous remarks than what Dahl said. I have bent over backwards to help make the description of these controversies as fair and objective as possible, but they do deserve to be mentioned, because the perception of Dahl as anti-Semitic did affect the public view of him before and after his death. marbeh raglaim ( talk) 05:00, 20 July 2009 (UTC)
There has been an RfC started at Talk:Jerusalem#RFC: Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. A few uninvolved admins watching over and stopping any inanity would be appreciated. nableezy - 21:09, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
As anyone can tell by checking my contribs, I edit a lot of Palestine-related articles, and have for over two years now. Lately, its been confirmed for me that Palestine is treated differently than every other disputed political entity here at Wikipedia. Though there have been incremental improvements over the last couple of months, with the restoration of the article State of Palestine and the creation of Outline of Palestine, serious issues remain.
Currently, there is an issue at the State of Palestine regarding the infobox there, which was added by an IP. Its being reverted out by an editor on the basis that there is no country of Palestine. Having been alerted to the presence of pages on other disputed political entites (like Abkhazia, Northern Cyprus and Somaliland which were cited as examples in an RfC on Jerusalem), I've noticed all of them get better treatment of their sovereignty claims than Palestine. While Palestine is recognized by more than 100 countries, and Northern Cyprus only by one (Turkey), somehow its allowed to include things on its page that Palestine's page can only dream of.
The problem, as I see it, is that editors who oppose the existence of Palestine, are basically given free rein to impose their POV all over Wikipedia. Imagine if a bunch of Georgian nationalists kept arriving at the Abkhazia page to delete the infobox claiming it was not a country, or that it should be redirected elsewhere or deleted. Imagine if Palestinian nationalists blanked the infobox of Israel saying its a state with limited recognition. People would treat them as trolls, not good faith editors. And yet in the case of Palestine, this behaviour by those opposed to its existence is tolerated, and even sometimes encouraged. We are told we have to bow to consensus, instead of having people called out for imposing their POVs when no such imposition is warranted or fair.
I just had to get this out of my system really. I really do hope that people who read this board will begin to take notice of what is going on in the case of Palestine. Tiamut talk 16:34, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Note: This issue affects Provisional IRA campaign 1969–1997 and Provisional Irish Republican Army.
Hi there, I'm following the advice of User:Durova and WP:DR in an effort to help get the Provisional Irish Republican Army out of protection, so that editing can continue. At issue is a sentence recently added to the lead IRA campaign 1969–1997&diff=306487413&oldid=306486375 here. The sentence is:
This resulted in this discussion and something of an edit war, which was put to a stop when User:Nja247 protected the page. As things stand now, it seems that User:O_Fenian is unwilling to engage in discussion about how to reword the sentence for as long as m:The Wrong Version is protected, and there is no consensus to revert to the version of the article without the contentious sentence during the dispute.
Which leaves us at an impasse.
I'd like some assistance to come to the article to help the editors reach consensus, get the new sentence (whatever it might be) in place so that the article can be unlocked. Lot 49a talk 16:36, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
As I have repeated maybe three times now, there is a proposal to replace the current sentence with this:
Mooretwin ( talk) 23:03, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
The question is very simple, how will the removal of information that is incorrect prevent the matter from being discussed? This is not about the wrong version being protected, it's about misleading information being removed pending didcussion. So stop stonewalling! I'm not really frustrated by the situation, I just don't agree with rewarding edit warring. -- Domer48 'fenian' 07:18, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
The sentence should be replaced with the reasonable proposal mentioned above by Mooretwin, its important information which belongs in the introduction, as long as it can be well sourced. I can quite understand why certain editors would not want such information so clearly presented. BritishWatcher ( talk) 08:51, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm not suggesting that the origional version be put back in, I'm simply saying that the incorrect and misleading sentence be taken out. Unlike you, I'm not fine with this misleading information being left in during the discussion. Removing the sentence is not coming down on the side of any version, as both will have then been removed. Your suggestion that by leaving misleading information in will have us all work on an acceptable version as quickly as we can is bizarre. If the sentence was removed, remember, one sentence, a sentence that is incorrect and misleading is removed, there is no need for a {{ POV}}, the article can still remain locked, and we can still work on alternative wording! So once again, what purpose can leaving this sentence in possibly have on the discussion? -- Domer48 'fenian' 21:28, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Please stop with the nonsense! There was no consensus for the edit warring POV IP’s edit, period! You locked the article, and have dug your heels in, claiming that the lock is arbitrary. Arbitrary can also mean uninformed, illogical, and capricious which sums up your attitude and rational quite well. Removing the information which is incorrect and misleading would in no way prevent discussion, and no matter how you try to Wikilawyer your way out of this fact the more pig headed you stance becomes. We have policies on this project such as WP:OR, WP:V and WP:NPOV and on them we have consensus! Most of us also agree that we should never reward edit warring IP’s by having articles locked! But like I said, that is something most of us agree on, but not all obviously. -- Domer48 'fenian' 18:19, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Pointing out your aversion to the use of common sense and after having the issue clearly pointed out to you and then rewarding of this disruption is not considered moaning by rational and reasonable editors. Your pig headedness in my opinion which allows readers to be misled deliberately is just as much an issue with me as the edit summary and edit itself. You’re in a position to replicate this type idiocy, and while we all have to accept that we will have edit warring IP’s, we should not have to accept Admin’s who encourage them! Edit warring to remove correctly sourced information, should never be rewarded! -- Domer48 'fenian' 07:58, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
Hell, I have complain about user named User:Lida Vorig. She puts small contributions but I found she is adding a lot of unrelevant info to Azerbaijani articles by disinforming the people due she is armenian and got negative views about Azerbaijan.
1st case could be in this article http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Huseyn_Arablinski&action=history and writing comment that Seems to fit his personality 2nd case, writing that Shusha is not part of Azerbaijan, despite whole UN and world counts as this city is part of Azerbaijan. It is questioning country's soverigny. See for yourself http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Latif_Karimov&action=history 3rd case, removing the word "Azerbaijani" from categories about Azerbaijani people by disinforming the nation http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Masud_ibn_Davud&diff=prev&oldid=310307129 http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Mahmud_ibn_Sa%27ad&diff=prev&oldid=310306985 4th case, adding again not notable info, saying Eynulla Fatullayev is kidnapped, actually this stuff never happened to him. http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Category:Kidnapped_Azerbaijani_people&diff=prev&oldid=310315717
This user is previously warned by user:CaliforniaAliBaba for adding speedy deletions to Azerbaijani!!
I think there is enough evidence to ban her from editing Azerbaijani articles.-- NovaSkola ( talk) 22:14, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
The article is about a massacre of Poles by Ukrainians during WWII. The article creator appears to be Polish. Most but not all of the editors !voting to delete appear to be Ukrainian. And things seem to be getting heated. Edward321 ( talk) 14:42, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
Albanian nationalism is an article full of highly biased claims like "These ideologies and Greater Albania have proponents that are not only nationalists but criminals[9] and terrorists[10] involved[11] in drug trafficking, Human trafficking and other activities motivated by profit [12].". It is completely fallacious to identify an entire nation as criminals and terrorist. Even if there are references citing such claims (there are not) it is not encyclopedic to make such claims.
It is also misleading to cite Us Gov. listing KLA as a terrorist organisation. What their website actually says about KLA is this: "They established a parallel government funded mainly by the Albanian diaspora. When this movement failed to yield results, an armed resistance emerged in 1997 in the form of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA). The KLA's main goal was to secure the independence of Kosovo."
(state.gov). There is also a different, more neutral POV in
Greek nationalism,
Serbian nationalism and other Balkan states nationalisms that should be also present in
Albanian nationalism.
AnnaFabiano (
talk) 14:31, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
I would like to seek help in resolving all the nastiness going on here. There is alot of POV warring by editors with a history in the subject. I don't want to point out specifics as that would be just a list of personal attacks, however we can clearly see bias here among the editors. Help????? Triplestop x3 14:34, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Dear admin
Kindly remove all sort of pictures relating to Prophet Muhammad PBUH as we muslims do not consider it as an appropriate deed. There has been numerous petitions around internet but nothing has been done. Please review your policy as it is hurting moral and religious values of millions of muslims around the world Regards —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.120.115.192 ( talk • contribs) 06:28, 5 September 2009
Can someone take a look at Separatist movements of Pakistan, I think a certain viewpoint is being presented here. It would be good if some could take a look at this. Thanks Pahari Sahib 08:00, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Not sure this is quite the right board.
There is strong disagreement as to the name of the article currently at Yue Chinese. Several alternatives have been suggested, with some editors adamantly opposed to each one. Perhaps we can get some outside views?
The problem is that the primary meaning of the name "Cantonese", per the OED and other dictionaries, is "of or concerning Canton", with Canton being the city of Guangzhou. Re. language, "Cantonese" means two things: (1) the dialect of Canton and environs, which has spread to Hong Kong and Macau, and (2) the primary branch of Chinese, cladistically a separate language, to which this Canton-ese dialect belongs. This is frequently called "Yue" in the linguistic literature, especially when dab'ing from Canton-ese, and includes dialects such as Taishanese which are often contrasted with Canton-ese. The phrase "Yue Chinese" is taken from Ethnologue, which has long been used as the default source for language information on WP.
In the opinion of myself and several other editors (including at least one Cantonese speaker), the term "Cantonese" is unacceptably ambiguous as the name of the article, since it more frequently means "Canton-ese", and indeed some Yue dialects may not be covered by the name Cantonese even in its broader use. The primary dispute appears to be from some Cantonese speakers, who are adamant that the term "Yue" is unacceptable, because it comes from the Mandarin pronunciation of the lect rather than the Cantonese pronunciation, even though only the Mandarin form is widely seen in English. Many subsequent arguments against this word would appear to be motivated by this objection. There are, however, Taishanese speakers who counter-argue that "Cantonese" is not acceptable, because in their view Taishanese is not a dialect of Cantonese. Others simply find the current title to be awkward. In English, both "Yue" and "Cantonese" are used for this topic; however, we have two articles on WP, one on Cantonese = Canton-ese, currently at Canton dialect, and the one on Cantonese = Yue that is being debated at Yue Chinese. Cantonese is currently a dab page, partially because there's one faction that wants it for Yue, and another that wants it for Canton-ese.
This being a variety of Chinese, both the words 'language' and 'dialect' will be unacceptable to some editors, making the obvious solution of "Cantonese language" vs. "Cantonese dialect" untenable. (There have recently been outraged arguments that Yue is / is not a 'language', even though that is not the current dispute. This problem does not extend to the name Canton dialect, since everyone accepts that as a dialect.)
Yue also has a secondary meaning, of the Yue peoples who populated the region prior to the arrival of the Chinese, and their language. Dab'ing the article from such subjects is also relevant.
I moved the article to its current Ethnologue-based title, which is also the default at WP:Chinese naming conventions (cf Mandarin Chinese, Wu Chinese, etc.), after strenuous objections to its previous location at 'Cantonese'. kwami ( talk) 00:50, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
I've corrected some information in the Muhammad of Ghor article, concerning the ethnic (or race), religion sect, place of death, family relation, etc. There are these 2 users ( User:Adil your who is Pakistani and User:Tajik) who are reverting it back to the totally false version, they claim that my corrections are POVs. How is it a POV if sources such as Encyclopedia Britannica, Columbia University, Nancy Dupree (an American specialist on history who spent over 30 years inside Afghanistan studying the history of that nation) from Kabul University, Encarta, John Walsh from Shinawatra University, and others all mention the same exact thing I've add into the article? Can someone please help settle this and keep eye on the page or protect it from these 2 disruptive users? I'm trying not to break the 3RRs.-- 119.73.6.155 ( talk) 04:55, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Could some additional eyes be turned on Creativity Alliance? It is a White Supremacist organization with an editor who thinks that Wikipedia is the place to present the organization's mission statement, holidays and other information that is not supported by third party sources. Thanks, Abductive ( reasoning) 07:00, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
There is a discussion on the talk page that is rapidly acquiring overtones of national conflict. The edits at issue are probably best summarized in terms of this diff, and there has been a discussion on the talk page to which fresher eyes and opinions would be most welcome. Ray Talk 05:00, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
There is some ongoing, rather heated, discussion about the use of these terms in the Judaism article, which has recently been protected because of this discussion and the accompanying reversions. Any input which might help resolve the situationn is more than welcome. John Carter ( talk) 15:33, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
"Asian fetish"/Asiaphile/Asiaphilia is a neologism that appears to be used to refer to liking Asians and/or Asian things and also applied to primarily white men with a sexual interest in Asian women that appears to be characterized as a form of racist love or sexual objectification or sexual fetish. It has been a controversial article with thirteen talk page archives and five Articles for Deletion discussions, several related AfDs, several 3RR reports and an appearance of unreported further edit warring in the article history, Wikietiquette reports, RfCs, etc. The talk page, 3rr reports, etc. discuss how (I am not sure I can adequately or correctly summarize, but I shall try): (1) the (perceived/actual) interest of some/all white men in Asian women might or might not be racist on the part of those white men (2) the characterization of the (perceived/actual) interest of some/all white men in Asian women may be a racist aspersion cast by some Asian men (3) that the concern about a perceived/actual) interest of some/all white men in Asian women may be a racist suspicion by Asian women, etc. This article could use some new eyes with expert knowledge/mediation/constructive input; I've posted to several places seeking community help. (Other ideas just about where to seek help are also welcome). Article was created 06:51, 20 April 2004 by an IP. There are, last that I checked, 122 watchers and about 400 daily page views on average. Has never reached much of a consensus regarding the subject, content or sources AFAIK. Concerns touch on many points, WP:V, WP:RS, WP:OR, WP:Synthesis, WP:NPOV, WP:NOT#ESSAY, WP:NOTDICTIONARY, WP:WAR, WP:DISRUPT, and probably some others. Posting here because chauvinist and nationalist sentiment may (or may not) be one of the factors preventing consensus, for the reasons identified above. I defer to your judgment as to whether it is appropriate for this noticeboard. Thank you! Шизомби ( talk) 04:05, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
few months ago he/she already had waenings, now and again
Revision history of Demonology:
(cur) (prev) 04:05, 9 January 2010 Ian.thomson (talk | contribs) (21,632 bytes) (Getting rid of redirecting link.) (undo)
(cur) (prev) 03:07, 9 January 2010 Idot (talk | contribs) (21,706 bytes) (now it is not a redidirect!) (undo)
(cur) (prev) 16:31, 8 January 2010 Ian.thomson (talk | contribs) (21,632 bytes) (Removing a link that redirects here.) (undo)
(cur) (prev) 08:55, 8 January 2010 Idot (talk | contribs) m (21,706 bytes) (orpho) (undo)
(cur) (prev) 08:53, 8 January 2010 Idot (talk | contribs) (21,705 bytes) (agree) (undo)
(cur) (prev) 04:46, 7 January 2010 Ian.thomson (talk | contribs) (21,632 bytes) (This article isn't about the demonologist class in some games.) (undo)
(cur) (prev) 03:35, 7 January 2010 Idot (talk | contribs) (21,663 bytes) (Undid revision 336140734 by Gordon Ecker (talk)) (undo)
(cur) (prev) 04:28, 6 January 2010 Gordon Ecker (talk | contribs) m (21,632 bytes) (removing from the character classes category) (undo)
the sitation is following: 1. the Demonologist is a character class in D&D 2. Ian.thomson removes any info abot that fact from Demonology and Demonologist articles which is a kind of vandalizm ( Idot ( talk) 03:35, 10 January 2010 (UTC))
There is an ongoing neutrality dispute. Because only few of us are involved, and because I have a reason to be skeptical regarding their good intentions, I decided to ask the help of third party. I just want the opinion of others on this highly controversial article.-- Mladifilozof ( talk) 00:12, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
Recently the article Shusha ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) has suffered from editwarring over proper usage of the word 'Tatar'. The relevant background could be found at Talk:Armenian–Tatar massacres 1905-1907, Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions/Archive 12#Proposed addition and Talk:Shusha#Photo attribution. Since associated RfC turned ineffective, an ultimate solution is highly appreciated now. Brand t] 16:55, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
If the editors at the article talk page can register their agreement (or disagreement) here, I'd appreciate it. A Stop at Willoughby ( talk) 05:14, 27 January 2010 (UTC)
The label most readily used by the Russians to refer to the Caucasian and Central Asian Muslims was Tatar, driving from the Turkic Tatar tribes whom the Russians had encountered centuries earlier. [source: Azeri women in transition: women in Soviet and post-Soviet Azerbaijan by Farideh Heyat, Central Asia Research Forum Series. London and New York: Routledge, 2002. p. 51]
Britannica 1911 edition: The Tatars of the Caucasus seem to be for the most part Azerbaijan Turks mingled with Armenian, Georgian, Lesghian and other blood. But the name is often loosely applied to any Mahommedan Caucasian tribe.
In 1897 'Tatars'-which officially included most Muslim groups... Source: Socialism in Georgian Colors: The European Road to Social Democracy, 1883-1917, by Stephen F. Jones, Harvard University Press (2005) p. 19
So the problem is also in the fact that Tatar did not necessarly mean a Turkic speaking person, but was applied to most Muslims in the region by Russians. Claiming Azeri is retrieving more information from the source than it contains, it amounts to original research. While it's true that probably it was a Turkic speaking person due to the demography, more than raising this fact would be original research.
The discussion was moved to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration/Current Article Issues#Articles related to Palestinian statehood per User:Taprobanus's suggestion. Please make your comments there. DrorK ( talk) 09:20, 12 February 2010 (UTC)
Please take a look at this article with long standind and ongoing dispute between pro-Baltic and pro-Russian editors. Any RFC and mediation procedures proved ineffective (meditation has been rejected by the pro-Baltic side [154]). Currently the page represents Baltic point of view as the only correct with some users argue that Russian sources sould be completely removed because "Russia is underdeveloped authoritarian country" [155] with accusations of extremism and nationalim from both sides.-- Dojarca ( talk) 01:22, 15 February 2010 (UTC)
Editor Galassi is inserting he was significant proponent of the Blood libel against Jews into Vladimir Purishkevich article. Galassi supports this with two refs.
Attention from uninvolved editors needed. DonaldDuck ( talk) 06:32, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
I found the above in the articles in need of wikification, but I think it needs an eye casting over its neutrality, especially in regard to the sourcing. Itsmejudith ( talk) 13:37, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
In article Anna (name) user Bookworm857158367 ( talk · contribs) said that name Marianna is in use in Russia. But it is not true. I'm Russian. I've read many books about Russian history and Russian classics literature and i've never heard about any Russian named Marianna. I heard about Americans, Mexicans, even Britons but never Russians. To prove my poont of view i've found few links. On these pages listed all the most popular and even rare names of Russian culture. These links are posted on discussion page Talk:Anna (name). But user Bookworm857158367 ( talk · contribs) cant prove his point of view. He told about Marianne Pistohlkors who lived in Russia but she wasnt Russian - she was Latvian. -- RussianSpy ( talk) 21:41, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
User:Kostja is going around adding the following [156] [157] [158] [159] [160] [161] [162] [163] [164] [165] [166] [167] [168] [169] [170] [171] to the caption of an ethnographic map from the 19th century, on the grounds that it is sourced. Yet upon reading his source, it is quite evident that it doesn't say what he claims, namely that the cartographer A. Synvet. is "pro-Greek". He is clearly misquoting the source. I have already brought this up with the user, but got (predictably) nowhere. Thus, it would be nice to get input from some uninvolved editors to gauge where community consensus lies. Athenean ( talk) 03:55, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
Off course I reinserted it. It's unacceptable to add a reference about a map, in particular that of Stanford's, in being pro-Greek and then to edit warring in the same article for not allowing another reference about Vidal Ladlache's maps for being pro-Bulgarian. And after finally succeeding to remove the pro-Bulgarian ref about Ladlache atlas with pure edit warring tactics, now you come again and by clearly misquoting a source, you are trying to push another characterization for another mapmaker, this time A.Synvet, in the same article while you continue denying to permit such a ref for the V.L. maps. What you really want Kostja? This is a ridiculous situation and nobody can accept it. Can't you understand that? Anyway I agree with Apcbg. It is a matter of time to find a ref characterizing pro-something every single ethnological map of the era. Not to mention what will happen when we will find for the first time two conflicting characterizations for the same map or mapmaker. One in being "pro-something" and another "neutral", which is also a matter of time. Whenever we have different points of view to present in an article about the ethnological situation two-three different maps presenting the respective points of view are by themselves enough. This fashion feeling with pro-something refs the captions Kostja already introduced in some 10 articles is leading to nowhere than continuing conflicts.-- Factuarius ( talk) 11:13, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
It seems most rational people agree that all so called ethnographic maps of the Balkans prepared in the eve of the Russo-Turkish and Balkan Wars by foreign authors (foreign meaning people not representing the Ottoman Government under which these territories situated, and the only able and capable body of conducting any type of meaningful census and population classification) are a simple pretext to illustrate a more favourable ethnic disposition and thus justification for grabbing Ottoman lands in favour of one or other neighbouring Balkan fraction. Having this in mind I find Kostja’s behaviour of going about in dozens of articles and marking certain maps only as pro-Greek and leaving those that are pro-Bulgarian untouched as just a pro-Bulgarian POV pushing. This kind of behaviour achieves nothing and leads only to edit-wars. I find it strange that after being recently banned from Wikipedia Kostja does not seem to have any intention of changing his editing behaviour. Quite funny that e.g., Synvet and Stanford are pro-Greek, but e.g., the maps of Thrace by the linguist Lyubomir Miletich are not POV…the man claims to have single-handedly counted the whole population of Thrace even doe during 1912 Bulgaria had no control over the area and in fact for the next 2 years the territory in question was a stage for a savage war. Since Synvet and Stanford contradict Miletich for the ethnic composition of Thrace and the legend of Bulgarian ethnic domination of the area Kostja in an orderly Bulgarian fashion for historical correction has marked them as pro-Greek lol...keep up the good work Hittit ( talk) 14:50, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
Hello
I would like to ask your opinion about the format that should be used in the lead sections of the articles about localities from Romania with an important Hungarian population
From the Romanian Constitution: http://www.cdep.ro/pls/dic/site.page?den=act2_2&par1=1#t1c0s0a13 "In Romania, the official language is Romanian". Also, According to Local Public Administration Bill (promulgated in 2001): "Where over 20 of the population is of an ethnic minority, all documents of a legal character will be published in the ethnic minorities' mother tongue.".
My opinion is that according to wiki rules Hungarian names should be listed before for example German names, but still in parantheses, in Italics: Romanian_Name ( Hungarian: Hungarian_Name, German: German_Name)
I just want to respect the standard naming policy WP:PLACE, Foreign language names and first sentence usage rule
Sorry if it wasn't a good idea to open this thread here (
Umumu (
talk) 17:05, 25 March 2010 (UTC))