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Constructal law - comes across as pseudo-science pushed by one academic, but perhaps not. The talk page has a couple important questions that should be answered and yet haven't been in nearly a year, which rings alarm bells to me. Also, one of its proponents, an editor "Mr env" User:Mre env seems to be pushing it in many inappropriate places, like the advocates of other pseudo-sciences do, where links to the article are added to likely irrelevant pages. The editor also seems to push flattering references to works by the academic who "discovered" constructal law, Adrian Bejan, making me think there might be some biased relationship between the editor and the academic. Considering the probably dubious nature of the topic and the somewhat insidious way references are being pushed into various topics by someone who might have a conflict of interest, hopefully someone can review this and figure out what to do. 38.65.195.5 ( talk) 00:47, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
Fringe article about a forged document, but the article also seems to be putting forth the idea that the story of Adam and Eve comes from the Hindu religion, eg that "Adimo" can be found in the Rigveda and that " Adimo is a character of a folk tale, which was written by Ramutsariar, about 2,000 of years before Bible". Dougweller ( talk) 21:51, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
Ruggero Santilli ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
This WP:FRINGEBLP survived a deletion discussion last decade, but I'm not sure the guy is all that notable. Do we have independent sources for this article? Can we clear out some of the cruft?
jps ( talk) 22:23, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
Good article nominee, and I'm actually leaning towards passing it, but this is one of those cases where there's so much quackery around the subject that we need to get things right the first time. Could everyone please have a look, make any appropriate tweaks, and tell me if you see any major problems that I might be missing?
Cheers!
Adam Cuerden ( talk) 15:16, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
Is there any non-fringe sources to demonstrate notability for this wheatgrass-eating Bigfoot knock-off? It's also infecting our Akron, Ohio article, cited to something called the "Bigfoot Research Organization." - LuckyLouie ( talk) 21:22, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, I've cleaned it up. No matter that they call them "investigations", I think all can agree that the TV shows are entertainment, and so should be placed in the context of popular culture.- LuckyLouie ( talk) 03:20, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
anyone familiar with
The one has serious autobiography problems, and I havent yet checked out the other, but anything calling itself "Breakthrough" cancer research screams of Fringe medicine. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 14:09, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
A paranormal concept of Michael Thalbourne. All references are either primary/unreliable (from Thalbourne) in parapsychology journals or in fringe paranormal books. I can't find any reliable references for this concept apart from one mention of it in a psychology book [2]. I think a redirect to Thalbourne would be suitable. An entire article to this fringe concept seems unnecessary as there are not enough reliable sources on the subject matter. Goblin Face ( talk) 15:51, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pierre-Marie Robitaille.
Input into this discussion would be appreciated.
jps ( talk) 14:07, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
It's being used as a main source on a whole lot of fringe theory articles but its web presence seems just plain gone. Is this publication still extant? Here's its link: [ [3]] Simonm223 ( talk) 20:05, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Is speciesism [4] [5] too fringe to be put in the "See also" section of Animal husbandry? -- Jeandré, 2014-02-19 t12:18z
This was created in December, 2013. It obviously slipped under the radar. There's some hilarious stuff in there, a lot of original research by the looks of it. Alfred Russel Wallace as a genetic argument for influence on ancient aliens? Goblin Face ( talk) 03:51, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
This is a strange article, no references at all and a quick look and I can't find anything reliable. It says he worked at the University of Gottingen but I can't find any reliable references for this. Only one book reference I can see mentions him [6] Von Daniken lol.. not exactly known for his reliability. He described Fiebag as a secondary school teacher. I think this could meet the criteria of being a quick delete. Goblin Face ( talk) 18:53, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Never heard of this guy before, can't find any reliable references. As it stands the only references that mention him are dubious parapsychology links like Michael Talbot of the "hologram" fame or Raymond Moody. I think afd would be suitable here.
The same thing is happening with this guy Zdeněk Rejdák. It's either self-published sources, unreliable parapsychology journals or fringe writers like Michael Talbot being cited. Goblin Face ( talk) 16:02, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
This is an article related to dowsing but I can't find a single reliable reference for what it is supposed to be. Might be worth redirecting it to this article Earth radiation which I will try to improve. A similar article here Bovis scale. Any thoughts about what to do with these? Goblin Face ( talk) 03:09, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Seems to be a rather unknown psychic. Only references I can find are his own website, paranormal blogs or youtube. Goblin Face ( talk) 16:16, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
A tiny article, needs eyes (and, if possible, expansion!) Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 21:00, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
(add) In fact, after a good hunt around, this topic does not seem to receive any good coverage outside the world of Rosen/bodywork publications (which are currently being used in the article, wrongly IMHO). Even Quackwatch just gives it a passing mention. Wondering if it should be AfD'd. Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 10:31, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
It's vital that wikipedia not report dubious medical claims as if they were true (in-universe explanation) however noting the existence of dubious medical claims falls within the boundaries of WP:FRINGE Simonm223 ( talk) 15:07, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
This device doesn't seem to meet any WP standards of notability and lack serious in depth coverage by reliable sources. Past discussions indicate that the only reason the article exists is due to a single editor's filibustering efforts. LuckyLouie ( talk) 19:44, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
Having difficulty finding any reliable references for this psychic. Goblin Face ( talk) 01:40, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Nothing particularly wrong at the moment, though the article could use some style work, but there's been a low level debate going on over at global warming including links to this article added and removed - so it might be a good idea to keep eyes here unless somebody decides to try and slip something in the back-door. Simonm223 ( talk) 19:00, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
It occurs to me that a lot of this discussion on FTN is going to be hard to find for anyone coming to this article later. Should we move/mirror/transclude this discussion to the talk page over at Global warming pause? 0x0077BE [ talk/ contrib] 15:34, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Should be deleted or redirected. There's no references for this. Any thoughts? Goblin Face ( talk) 16:07, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Having difficulty finding reliable references for this author. He seems to have written some fringe books in the vein of John Keel, but I can't find any book reviews. Goblin Face ( talk) 02:26, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
Editor currently trying to soften language regarding general scientific consensus surrounding Morphic Resonance. Simonm223 ( talk) 17:45, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
People can do what they like on their own personal pages really. I'm not concerned about his accusations of a wikipedia cabal there. I just think that it'd be a good idea to keep an eye on the page itself until he relaxes a little - especially as the article is under a WP:1RR arbitration enforcement and has been an edit war zone in the past. Simonm223 ( talk) 18:08, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
You mean Tom Butler? He's mostly harmless because he knows when to back down when he's losing. He was also warned at WP:ARBPSCI, so further concerns regarding him should be referred to WP:AE. jps ( talk) 18:10, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Both have published some fringe work on NDEs. Having difficulty finding reliable references for their claims. Goblin Face ( talk) 02:29, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
Fringe proponent on the parapsychology talk-page not listening to a word anyone has said, citing the same old pseudoscience etc and ignoring scientific references on the topic. Now claiming people are "strawmanning" in his edit summaries. Seems to be using the talk-page like a forum instead of proposing anything productive. Is it worth just ignoring him? Goblin Face ( talk) 23:44, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Back in August the Jahn article got a huge shot of the fringe theory stuff from the Princeton_Engineering_Anomalies_Research_Lab article. The article is currently effectively a glowing endorsement of his parapsychological work. I was scanning it in light of the renewed interest in parapsychologists I've seen through my watchlist and found out. I'm going to be WP:BOLD and remove a bunch of the NPOV content but if there is anyone else who wants to reinsert something that should be in there (in case I cut too much), or if there is anyone who can find better sources for information please lend a hand. Simonm223 ( talk) 00:41, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
Simon, your cause isn't in the interest of maintaining a neutral point of view. I have plenty of evidence showing that you two aren't approaching this objectively at all. The PEAR article looks fine and neutral. It doesn't need any "touch-ups", unless of course you want to stick in some stuff from Robert Todd Carroll's website that can be refuted quite easily. PhiChiPsiOmega ( talk) 00:56, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
Center_for_Science_in_the_Public_Interest#Of_science - Is this GMO scaremongering, or is it a legitimate complaint? If it's just scaremongering, then surely the title of the section (it's a subheading of "Criticism") is pushing a fringe theory? Adam Cuerden ( talk) 12:56, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
I happened across Diseases from Space, which seems to be a massive (43 kB) uncritical article on a book by Hoyle and Wickramasinghe about their fringe space pathogen hypothesis. The one acknowledgement of criticism is a mention that it was "a highly controversial book when it first came out in 1979" in the lead. I'm unsure what the SOP is for articles on books specifically promoting a certain view, so I'd appreciate it if someone could take a look at it. It's already got a half page {{multiple issues}} box, so in need of cleanup no matter what. Kolbasz ( talk) 13:38, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
This one netted me a user page vandal. Lol! Simonm223 ( talk) 10:11, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
I just added the Fringe Theory Template on the Joel Fuhrman article. With the following comments on the talk page. "...since there is no counter points made to Mr. Fuhrman's claims in the article, specifically about his health equation. He has made many claims that claim he can cure any number of diseases including certain kinds of cancer with diet alone. This article needs a complete rewrite, eventually; the problem is most of the media attention that he has gotten is positive, despite his dubious claims." VViking Talk Edits 13:40, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Are Riki Ott's claims of government coverup, and some of the other toxicity claims in the Corexit article (especially in the criticism section) fringe? A review of the talk page shows that the community there does not consider NOAA, the EPA, and other government agencies as reliable sources because of the alleged coverup. This same group has been heavily involved in the several other articles related to the Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill. Geogene ( talk) 17:47, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
Diffs please. Simonm223 ( talk) 23:53, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
While this is a fringe theory noticeboard, there are some claims being made that, whilst having nothing to do with the topic here, need to be corrected.
Georgette has changed
Georgette also added the bit from NIOSH to the BP oil spill article, in which the government seems to blame the oil workers for not wearing protective gear, however it was not added that workers' jobs were threatened if they did wear masks or respirators.( NYT CNN)
The type of hyper-editingas seen by Georette's contributions in the past week or so, considered alongside the ongoing, multi-billion dollar court case which BP is fighting right now, which is focused specifically on the amount of environmental damage that was done, is troubling to say the least. Also my words are being taken out of context and misused here. I said that we don't necessarily take the words of government officials as RS, and I showed where they did indeed get busted trying to cover up news of the oil plumes at the height of the spill. So to quote an agency (NOAA) who was caught lying, and to say that it should trump Al Jazeera, is certainly going to be challenged. Ideally, there would be more help available at pages like this, when a high value trial is ongoing. The usual editors are pretty burned out at this point, FYI. petrarchan47 t c 01:56, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Geogene response:well, I'm not sure how you messed my name when it's right there in front of you, but I'm a "he".
Now, I'm concerned about these kneejerk accusations of COI: [16], [17], [18], [19], [20], [21], [22], [23], [24], [25], [26], in which Petrarchan47 accuses pretty much anyone that disagrees with her of working for either the NSA or BP, or else insinuates that she and her friends are the only ones there for acceptable reasons. She was kind enough to repeat the accusation above. There's always "a court case", timing is always "suspicious"...I don't know if she is just naturally prone to that sort of thinking, or if she does this to try to run off editors that don't carry her point of view. Regardless, it's tedious, and I'm about ready to take it to the ANI, this is probably the last straw. Geogene ( talk) 02:17, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
I'm getting an impression of "environmental/political activism" vs. "here to build an encyclopedia". Whatever it is, you guys need help. This noticeboard isn't the place for it. Maybe dispute resolution or arbitration, but not here. Thanks. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 02:33, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Only source provided is a paper written by the owner of radhaz.com [27] - a purveyor of fine EmF fear based products. I've asked on talk a few times for contact with the author on notability but they've continued editing this article, and including links to it and RF based spyware on other radiation metering pages without engaging at all. If anyone thinks they can save this one, find some reliable sources for why this device is notable I'd love to see it - because my instinct is that there is a case for notability. But the article author didn't produce a case and I feel this would be better off at AfC. Simonm223 ( talk) 19:53, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Kumari Kandam has been heavily revised recently, and now contains original research, heavy use of someone named K.Appadurai, statements like "is probable" with no source, etc. See the talk page discussion. I must admit I haven't looked at this for a few days. I note for instance a new Satellite image claimed to resemble Mt Meru but with apparently no source. Dougweller ( talk) 19:19, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
This article has got some history, check the talk page. Most editors have agreed it should be redirected but it never was. I suggest a redirect to parapsychology. Goblin Face ( talk) 02:37, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
Redirected to Extrasensory perception. - - MrBill3 ( talk) 09:29, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
WTF is this? I can't see any reliable sources being used, and it looks like woo. WP:AFD? Barney the barney barney ( talk) 14:14, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Enjoy. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 02:10, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Non notable fringe physicist. Can't find any reliable sources. Goblin Face ( talk) 11:36, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
IP is deleting references from the article and deleting any mention that Parnia's work is parapsychology based. He's done this a number of times now. Goblin Face ( talk) 01:03, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Pseudoscience ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
An editor deleted relevant text from Pseudoscience#Demographics section.
The source is published in BJP. This proposal lost interest because editors did not feel it is a useful reference for the proposed text. The source is relevant to the pseudoscience page and all the proposed text is supported by the published reliable reference.
Proposal 1: Restore text to Pseudoscience#Demographics:
Restore following sourced text: ==> Pseudoscientific examples can be found in practically any country. For example, the ' Keep libel laws out of science' campaign was launched in the UK in June 2009 after the science writer Simon Singh, who alerted the people about the lack of evidence to support chiropractic treatments, was sued for libel by the British Chiropractic Association.
Proposal 2: Restore text to WP:LEAD:
Restore following sourced text: ==> Pseudoscience, superstitions, and quackery are serious matters that are a threat to public health.
Proposal 3: Restore text to Pseudoscience#Health and education implications:
Restore following sourced text: ==> Superstitions, beliefs that are irrational and usually involve cause-and-effect relationships that are not real, are categorized as pseudoscience and quackery. Quackery is a specific type of pseudoscience that alludes medical treatments. As many governmental and skeptical organizations are actively fighting against pseudoscience and related issues, their efforts to make the public aware of the scientific rigor required to make informed choices are not always as effective as anticipated to reduce the impact of pseudoscience.
Here is text from the source that shows the proposal is sourced.
The issue here is not a matter of
WP:V or
WP:RS because Matute is a good source for the article.
WP:NPOV requires that the existing mainstream view is fairly represented. I checked the article history. This
deleted relevant text from the article and this
also deleted text that is related to demographics and to the article.
_-Quack
o
Guru-_ 04:35, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Could use some eyes on it. I've reverted an IP's pov editing there twice. Dougweller ( talk) 21:33, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
The user Hawol has been doing mass edits on this article for a few months. He/she has done some good work but most of the sources which have been added on the NDE (Fenwick, Greyson, Parnia, Lommel) etc all advocate a sort of mind-body dualism or a spiritual interpretation of the NDE, this is not the position held by the scientific consensus. There's now nearly 100 references on the article but less than 10 references in the skeptical section. The same user has also done mass edits to the Transpersonal psychology article. Like above has done some good work but in places deleted some critical references on the topic. I don't know what to suggest here, but the NDE article is completely unbalanced. Goblin Face ( talk) 03:04, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Struggling here to find any reliable sources. I thought a book review might turn up but so far have not been able to find anything. Any help would be appreciated. Goblin Face ( talk) 23:56, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
Not sure what to do here, according to his article he has published a lot of books but the article reads like an advertisement. Says he has been on the TV and has various media appearances but I can't seem to find any reliable sources. Goblin Face ( talk) 16:08, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
Shag Harbour UFO incident (
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It's
up for AfD but there seems to be the minimal amount of newspaper coverage to satisfy notability. My concern is that the article contains huge sections of
WP:OR and fringe conspiracy views given heavy
undue weight.
One especially conspiracy-minded section is sourced entirely to a book called Dark Object: The World's Only Government-Documented UFO Crash co-authored by
Whitley Strieber. -
LuckyLouie (
talk) 19:00, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
A 2011 review of reviews: Ernst, E; et al. (2011). "Acupuncture: Does it alleviate pain and are there serious risks? A review of reviews". Pain. 152 (4): 755–64. doi: 10.1016/j.pain.2010.11.004. PMID 21440191.
A 2013 systematic review: Bergqvist D (2013). "Vascular injuries caused by acupuncture. A systematic review". International Angiology. 32 (1): 1–8. PMID 23435388.
A 2011 systematic review: Ernst E, Zhang J (2011). "Cardiac tamponade caused by acupuncture: a review of the literature". Int J Cardiol. 16 (3): 287–289. doi: 10.1016/j.ijcard.2010.10.016. PMID 21093944.
All above reviews are relevant to the article and obviously meets MEDRS. It is not undueweight because deaths after acupuncture are rare. QuackGuru ( talk) 07:56, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
The current discussion is at Talk:Acupuncture#Removal of reviews. QuackGuru ( talk) 16:58, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
This is a psychic but I can't find any notable or mainstream publications that mention him. The article has been a mess for years. I think afd would be appropriate. Let me know your thoughts. Goblin Face ( talk) 00:04, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
BLP of a Scottish astronomer who expresses fringe theories about alien space probes, matter transfer accidents, and other unconventional opinions. Needs someone familiar with the subject to look it over. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 16:38, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
Related to above. It's up for AfD. Only non-fringe sources are Brian Dunning and an Irish planetarium's blog. Notable? Could be. Then again, maybe not. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 18:14, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
Valentich disappearance (
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There's some insistence on presenting UFOlogists "findings" on an equal footing with DOT findings - cited to fringy sources like "Victorian UFO Research Society" as seen
here (by an editor coincidentally named "vufors"). -
LuckyLouie (
talk) 02:42, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
A little overreaction, I'd say. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 16:37, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Recently cleaned of OR cited to primary sources and reliable sources being misrepresented. Bears watching. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 00:34, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
Has seen some heavy editing of late, especially to the lede. More eyes/views would be helpful. Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 06:28, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
Some people may want to take a look at this. It seems a bit off, especially this section and this addition. -- Calton | Talk 19:04, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
People may wish to weigh in at Talk:Ken_Ham#Editing_the_lead_without_discussion_here_first . -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 23:31, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
The article is currently locked pending consensus. As absurd as it seems consensus needs to be established that WP should assert the age of the Earth as a fact. Intelligent input (not design) might be helpful. - - MrBill3 ( talk) 04:00, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
I see a fringe theory being pushed by a user across a number of articles related to North Korea. North Korea and its governing party are widely considered as hardline communist. North Korea has the most rigid socialist planned economy that is still left in the world.
Now, a user is making a long story in a number of articles asserting that North Korea is not 'actually communist' at all, but rather 'far-right' and 'fascist'. Examples: Juche#.22Socialism_without_Socialism.22, edit warring to remove 'socialism' from the infobox: [31], despite the fact that NK is officially socialist according to its constitution. The whole ideology section on Worker's Party of Korea only reflects the view that this party is not really communist. This is being done by range of selective quotations. The user concerned has cherrypicked two or three sources based on which he's pushing his fringe view in every article connected with North Korea.
I've tried to explain him numerous times the simple fact that most noncommunists consider North Korea as communist. Most communists similarly consider North Korea as communist. You only get 22,000 Google hits, most of those with little substance, when you google 'North Korea ″not communist″. When you Google 'North Korea Communist', you get no less than 17 million hits. What the user is pushing is a minority view within a minority. He has been criticized from both anticommunist (me) and pro-communist perspective ( [32]) for his pet theories, to no avail. Patent case of WP:FRINGE. Lokalkosmopolit ( talk) 12:52, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
I think that the position of Brian Reynolds Myers, that the DPRK is a racist, fascist state, is noteworthy. However, I think the problem is creating a false consensus around the opinions of Myers and people like him by a synthesis of cherrypicked quotations. (I don't think it is just TIAYN who is doing this.) I don't think the issue is just selectivity of sources, but selectivity in quoting those sources. As one example, I checked the citation of Bruce Cumings in the Juche article against his original text (Korea's Place in the Sun). Cumings writes:
and
However, the citation of Cumings focuses on his comments about corporatism and Japanese fascism (from the same passage in the original text, though quoted from another source) and puts them under the heading "Socialism without Socialism". This gives the impression that Cumings agrees with Myers, which is false.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 03:34, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
According to mystic seers, the characteristic blue haze seen in mountain canyons, currently attributed to Mie scattering-theory, is the most dense form of the Aether: the Chemical Ether. - Etheric plane.
The majority of modern physicists, in spite of acknowledging the phenomena known as vacuum energy and the existence of other unsolved problems in physics that are unexplained by current standard theories, continue to maintain that there is no need to imagine that a medium for propagation of electromagnetic waves exists [...] However, there have been a number of physicists in western countries whose research, currently considered fringe and controversial among the mainstream scientific community, shows evidence of the existence of the dynamic aether possessing a fluid crystal-like structure and permeating all space, in an apparent accordance with recent experiments and as formerly outlined by Theosophical and Rosicrucian esoteric schools. - Etheric plane
In contrast to Western secular modernist and post-modern thought, in occult and esoteric cosmology, thoughts and consciousness are not just a byproduct of brain functioning, but have their own objective and universal reality quite independent of the physical. - Mental plane
A teaching prevalent in the West is mathematics, which was greatly added to by Pythagoreanism and Philosophy (Platonism, Neoplatonism), the oldest non-mythic (besides Egyptian) Western wisdom teachings. Math once meant "magic" and is still important in occultism., especially topics farther beyond the earthly. Any mathematician who considers the mental plane's dimensionality equal to or more than the earthly one defines them as "hyperplanes." - Mental plane
...What the fuck? These are stating everything as factual.. they're claiming, explicitly, that science is wrong and they're right... and there's dozens of other articles in the categories these are from...
I'm genuinely horrified that this has been on Wikipedia so long... Adam Cuerden ( talk) 09:29, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
See WP:ANI#MEAT at Vassula Ryden. Dougweller ( talk) 10:44, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
Jabal al-Lawz ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
A fringe claim that this is Mt. Sinai seems to be dominating this page. I think we should remove it entirely, but thought I'd post here to get other opinions. jps ( talk) 11:29, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cosmic consciousness.
Thoughts would be appreciated.
jps ( talk) 11:33, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
Ascended master ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
That's a pretty long article for not very much independent notice. It's hard for me to tell how much is original research and how much is well-documented dogma of the theosophists. Are there any experts in spiritualism that can have a crack at this?
jps ( talk) 12:02, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
Transpersonal psychology ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Seemingly largely overlooked by this board, this article is rather unwieldy. There is evidence in the literature that this fringe field of psychology has adherents, but we desperately need independent sources to corroborate a lot of what appears to me to be soapboxing in the article. Compare to parapsychology which has a lot better neutral treatment.
jps ( talk) 12:06, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
I don't get these articles at all. I realise they're minority religious beliefs, so, you know, just because I don't believe them doesn't mean they're unsuited for Wikipedia, but, at the same time, they don't explain terms, and are a word salad to the uninitiated. Anyone get these? Adam Cuerden ( talk) 07:18, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
I would appreciate outside input on whether we should mention the non-existent medical condition adrenal fatigue on this page, such as in this diff. Discussion on started on the talk page. Thank you. Yobol ( talk) 14:59, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
Chinese spirit possession (
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Seems to blur the line between a cultural concept and supernatural claims. -
LuckyLouie (
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Enfield Monster (
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SpongebobLawyerPants (
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My impression is that this is non notable fringe nonsense, but since I've had some
recent history with this user, I'd appreciate an independent evaluation. -
LuckyLouie (
talk) 18:58, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
I think all the references are unreliable. It looks like a hoax article. QuackGuru ( talk) 18:14, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Finally got around to cleaning out the non RS sources and giving the article a much needed copyedit [36]. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 21:16, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
You'll note I'm not jumping up and down to AfD this one either. However I felt it fit a trend of articles edited by an IP editor who is passionate about cryptids that could probably do with a once over. Cheers.
Simonm223 (
talk) 17:35, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Loveland frog anyone? Sufficiently sourced? Barney the barney barney ( talk) 09:53, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
Oh, and take a cruise through Infobox mythical creature: what links here sometime. Many of the "Grouping" and "Subgrouping" entries read like fan fiction. Brosno dragon, for example. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 15:05, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
Please note the discussion, at Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard#Dreams from My Real Father, regarding the appropriate wording of the lede for the article Dreams from My Real Father, which discusses a film that claims Barack Obama's biological father was Frank Marshall Davis. -- Arxiloxos ( talk) 23:11, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
I've noticed some troubling POV editing on Aromatherapy by Dr. Cory Schultz. According to Google, this person is an 'E-natropath'. I'm going to have a go at cleaning this up later today. -- Salimfadhley ( talk) 10:04, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
The article has been pretty much whitewashed with nothing indicating where the guys claims sit in response to the mainstream and in fact the "fringe" template has been removed from the talk page!-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 03:04, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
Research on meditation ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
I tried to be bold and redirect this mess to meditation, but there are certain folks sitting on it claiming it is full of important information. Still looks like a mess to me. Help stubbing out for a merge back to where it belongs would be appreciated.
jps ( talk) 11:21, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
We need editors keeping an eye on these. Looks like there is going to be a campaign to have these articles reflect Osmanagic's views, see [37]. Dougweller ( talk) 06:27, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
Article on a fairly obscure fringe topic. Many of the reference links are to paranormal supporting sites. Seems in need of a cleanup. Graham1973 ( talk) 01:51, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
Twelve Holy Days ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Should this article exist? jps ( talk) 12:38, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
Joseph A. Citro (
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Appears to be a non notable author; the only coverage I could find of him was a couple of local stories in the Bangor, Maine newspaper. A walled garden of his various (likely not notable) works exists on Wikipedia:
AfD, or redirect to Bennington Triangle? - LuckyLouie ( talk) 18:53, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
An editor has been at work lately creating & modifying:
Many poorly-sourced links to the same domains. All/some of these probably need attention with an eye (at least) to WP:FRINGE. Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 20:58, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
The article on Trey Gowdy has misleading information when it makes mention of Trey Gowdy's award from a right-wing think tank in re the Affordable Care Act as "government-run" healthcare. I have tried to add a disclaimer that the ACA is not a 'government-run' healthcare system, but the editor of the page removes it by using the excuse that it is a quote. I am trying to bring clarity to the article by stating that there is disagreement as to the ACA being 'government-run'. The editor of this page continues to delete my entries because the misinformation is from a direct quote. I have backed up my entry by citing Factcheck. org.
User Ersby deleting skeptical references on the ganzfeld experiment claiming they are "POV". He's also done the same on the Charles Honorton article, instead re-placing reliable references with parapsychology journals. Goblin Face ( talk) 18:02, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
New article needs help. Removed unreliable sources, but overly credulous prose needs to be checked against existing sources. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 19:53, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
Telephone hypnosis ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Stumbled across this article in the new page feed. It seems to be filled with paranoid conspiracy claims - e.g. "Because telephone hypnosis is sometime undetectable by the patient, one way to detect it is to record your phone calls by using a suction microphone", or the removed "headhunters sometime use the technique of telephone hypnosis on job seekers". Is there a legitimate technique with this name (a cursory PubMed search didn't turn up anything) or is it unsalvageably fringe? Kolbasz ( talk) 23:08, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
My sinister agents tell me that the email campaign by the atroturfing group the ANP Coalition (run by a director of the clinic and his wife) is pressing its email campaign resulting in literally several emails to OTRS. The message is simple:
These claims are all, of course, false. The article is accurate, there is no evidence of paid advocacy outside the fevered imagination of Burzynski's propagandist Eric Merola (a Truther and general conspiracy believer who was art director on Zeitgeist: The Movie, directed by his brother Peter), the article is only semi protected.
Please add the article to your watchlists. Burzynski is trying the same tactics as he did in the 1990s: he's employing lobbyists, using parents of terminal children as cannon fodder to take his special pleading to anyone who will listen, and spinning like mad to try to cover up the long history of ethical violations and the absence of any credible evidence of effect.
It seems that two sources dominate in discussion: USA Today and Wikipedia. Our article is accurate, robustly sourced and comprehensive. They cannot fix USA Today (though they have tried), they will not give up on Wikipedia. Guy ( Help!) 15:03, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
A POV fork of Electromagnetic radiation and health. A product of the sock farm actively spreading electromagnetic radiation paranoia and pushing metering products. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 19:36, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
Everyone see these:
Do we need to change WP:FRINGE to reflect this? Barney the barney barney ( talk) 19:00, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
New editor without a clue about our copyvio policies (I've deleted one article about Man: Whence, How and Whither which was just copyvio) creating new articles. See K.H. Letters to C.W. Leadbeater. Dougweller ( talk) 14:44, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
Something weird going on here. Strikertype ( talk · contribs) turned up whitewashing the article three times claiming Radin wants his article deleted even though the article is well referenced. His last edit summary is threatening legal action. An afd has now been opened. Goblin Face ( talk) 13:14, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
To me, this newly created article looks ripe for deletion, but I'd like more experienced eyes on it. - Roxy the dog ( resonate) 15:37, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
This was previously discussed here and redirected to EMF meter. Now it's back, with two new articles Trifield meter and RF meter that duplicate it in some form. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 16:41, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
Potentially some commercial activity/COI connected to this user. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 15:08, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
IP activity connecting this topic to the various metering devices. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 15:30, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
Propose close: All of these have now been speedy deleted under Banned or Blocked user. Flat Out let's discuss it 23:08, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
Electrosmog (
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Blatant tinfoil-hattery sourced to stuff like
this and connected to a walled garden of
related articles. -
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See also:
Electronic harassment (
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LuckyLouie (
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And:
Dirty electricity (
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Seems to be a number of SPA's active in creating/maintaining a cluster of articles with a slant toward tinfoil-hattery. -
LuckyLouie (
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Faradaytent (
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Emrhealth (
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Hynosisinfo (
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Meterclassification (
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Now at SPI - LuckyLouie ( talk) 21:51, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
Daniel J. Benor ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Nice little advert we have going here. Can someone help make it a little less spammy?
jps ( talk) 23:54, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
CSD A7 tag placed. - - MrBill3 ( talk) 04:05, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
This article, created in 2007 by the same editor as Isogai dynamic therapy (above) has obviously been below the radar in all this time. - Roxy the dog ( resonate) 16:40, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
An editor is making unhelpful edits to the acupuncture article. He is removing images and creating a separate section for only two sentences. None of the edits improved the article. The current discussion is at Talk:Acupuncture#Misplaced text and deletion of images. QuackGuru ( talk) 06:28, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
Background information: There is a non-notable fringe article in mainspace. It barely survived AFD. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/German Acupuncture Trials.
An editor is deleting sourced text without gaining consensus first. See Talk:German acupuncture trials#Proposal. See Talk:German acupuncture trials#Birch came back in.2C deleted again. For non-medical claims the Journal of traditional Chinese medicine is usable according to User:Alexbrn. QuackGuru ( talk) 20:10, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
The sourced text is being deleted but the statements are not fringe. The statements are non-medicals claims. QuackGuru ( talk) 20:37, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
I removed some poorly sourced material from Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) - sourced only to a fringe publication, no discussion in reliable sources, no evidence the author is the expert he's claimed to be (which wouldn't override WP:UNDUE as you'd have to shown him significantly mentioned in reliable sources). Surprise, User:Til Eulenspiegel reverted me crying censorship. Dougweller ( talk) 13:25, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
I've raised the COI edits by this fringe author at WP:COIN#User Louise Goueffic. Dougweller ( talk) 18:04, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
Howdy WP:FRINGE fans. Consistent with my want to create/improve articles for all sorts of bizarre Christian paraphernalia (see Gospel of Jesus' wife and Catacomb saints for example), I have today created an article for the Chalice of Doña Urraca. This particular cup already has an article on the Spanish Wikipedia (has had since 2009) and seemed notable enough to justify the effort. Add to that, late last month some local Spanish historians published a book claiming the chalice was, in fact, the true Holy Grail. The chalice's post-12th century provenance is well-established and extensively documented (it basically hasn't moved for the better part of 800 years). But the Grail claim is new, disputed and possibly a fringe theory. Well-referenced additions and more eyes would be welcome. Stalwart 111 09:47, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
Need eyes on Water fluoridation controversy and Fluoridation by country as a new editor has been making some edits that appear to be slanted against water fluoridation. Thanks! Yobol ( talk) 18:43, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
Probably not, but there's no realistic way he can keep editing his pet topics if he doesn't learn to accept guidance on policy. Guy ( Help!) 08:36, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
Where does this fall in the "legit" scale?
-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 00:36, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
Signature in the Cell ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Help fix this thing.
jps ( talk) 22:57, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
Could some experienced editor(s) have a look & assess claims/notability & suitability for deletion? Article moved from AFC into mainspace (had been previously declined) by an editor, Rcruzmedia, who was later blocked for promo editing & socking. Article claims it is an "body-mind-spirit therapy developed and clinically tested " by an Australian natural therapist, and can have rapid results by freeing up subtle energy blocks..or somesuch bollocks.Sources are offline print media, one of them references a Good Medicine Magazine which is also the name of a legit looking US mag but I do not think they are the same publication as the author of the reference article seems to contribute to Oz-based media on subjects such as chakradancing and also shows up in google searched to Australian Natural Health Magazine (currently offline). regards 94.195.46.224 ( talk) 01:19, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
K.H. Letters to C.W. Leadbeater and Man: whence, how and whither, a record of clairvoyant investigation. Full of plagiarism, perhaps some copyvio but hard to check. Poor articles and pov. Dougweller ( talk) 21:07, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
Doppelgänger ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) A remnant of Wikiproject paranormal, looks like its written by people who wanted to believe. The section "Notable documented doppelgänger experiences" is especially fun. A few possible merge targets. Also up for AfD at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Doppelgänger. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 12:55, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
This seems to be a new frontier in obfuscation.
Help would be appreciated.
jps ( talk) 18:37, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
Sigh. Your argumentative post is almost meaningless in its torturous and counterfactual hairsplitting. The determination of the age of the Earth is a measurement of the age of the Earth -- end of story. Meaningless distinctions between science and engineering in this context are just that. We aren't talking about the age of Hawaii here (which also can be measured). We're talking about the age of the Earth. Much like I'm not talking about the age of your fingernail when I'm talking about the age of you. Do try to keep up. jps ( talk) 01:38, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
I believe that it is time to stop responding to jps. Dealing with someone who thinks that scientific questions are resolved by insults and bullying is boring, and his block log makes it clear that he is ineducable. It is a shame that he decided to bring his circus to the creationism pages, because his tactics are pretty much the same ones used by a certain class of young-earth creationist. The creationism pages need calm, logical editors who stay focused on the science.
For my part I apologize for responding on his level, and have stricken those portions of my comments. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 07:15, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
creationists say X, which is wrong, and do Y, which is wrong. Science says X and Y are wrongis in any way better or "less obfuscated" than a simple statement along the lines of
creationists say X and do Y. Science says X and Y are wrong? This is essentially all this argument boils down to. GDallimore ( Talk) 14:03, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
Creationists believe X. This is in contradiction to the fact of Y.That's the most neutral way to write it. Not everything is a debate. jps ( talk) 14:31, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
creationists say X and do Y. Science says X and Y are wrongis giving WP:UNDUE weight to WP:FRINGE views as if religious nutjobs were equally prepared to discuss science as actual scientists.
Comment from an uninvolved editor All measurements occur within the context of models, and all measurements are at some level hypotheses. However, there's usual a per-domain understanding as to what is commonly known as a "measurement" versus calculation, modeling, or derivation. With the several caveats of ghits very much in mind, here's a few counts from google scholar:
Based on this, I prefer "calculate". Lesser Cartographies ( talk) 20:57, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
Two very bad articles that contained considerable copyvio (hers may still have some). They both need work. I was at first considering combining them but I'm not sure. A better choice might be to rename the Niscence article to Ann Ree Colton Foundation of Niscience, a redirect I first considered, because of sources such as [45] and much more importantly the book Under the Influence by John Goldhammer: [46] "From 1976 to 1990, I was a member of a religious group (the Ann Ree Colton Foundation of Niscience) that combined fundamentalist Christianity, Eastern mysticism, and New Age metaphysics. As a board member, lay minister, and volunteer, I did extensive pastoral counseling and researched the major world religions, philosophy, and psychology. I participated in and organized numerous conclaves, gave hundreds of public talks and conducted a lot of workshops and seminars across the U.S. I became utterly consumed by the Niscience System and its claim to be "the" highest truth and "the" spiritual path for our time." "I found it necessary to terminate my association with the group in 1990 due to their movement toward increasingly rigid and oppressive formats, rituals, and mind-control techniques--away from an emphasis on research and study of different religions and philosophies. By the way, leaving a group where I had invested so much of my life was incredibly difficult! I was feeling suicidal and lost. The organization had deteriorated into a destructive, full-blown religious cult". I've rewritten Niscience a bit, not enough and what I did do could use work. Dougweller ( talk) 16:03, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
A host of sock / meat puppets are appearing attempting to white-wash the fringe Young Earth Creationist claims. Additional eyes welcome. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 21:49, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
Erlendur Haraldsson (
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BLP of an Icelandic academic may be being used to promote fringy claims of reincarnation. I haven't delved too deeply into this article, but at first glance, the sourcing appears over-weighted towards
WP:FRINGE venues and the subject's own writings. The article knits together his attempts at "psychological explanations for children who speak of past-life experiences" published in a couple of mainstream journals with his credulous claims of psychic communications, micro-PK and "reincarnation cases" published in fringe journals such as Journal of the Society for Psychical Research, and Journal of Scientific Exploration as if they are one in the same. -
LuckyLouie (
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I added the BLP Primary tag and a comment on the talk page. The content doesn't belong in WP unless it is considered important in the field, this needs support and discussion in 3rd party independent reliable sources. - - MrBill3 ( talk) 18:46, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
Related article: Indriði Indriðason. Talk page discussion of problems with the article presenting the material too credulously, over-reliance on one source, etc. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 17:14, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
Terrible abuse of military/government power, conspiracy theory, or both? Whatever, the sourcing in the current article is decidedly iffy ... Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 19:01, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
John Hartnett (physicist) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
An interesting case where CV-style promotionalism seems to dominate over the actual notability of the person. Hartnett is not particularly known for his contributions outside of creationism, and yet his credentials are somewhat trumpeted in the lede. Not sure how to handle the situation, though. Help!
jps ( talk) 13:52, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Needs a cleanup. The section about the controversy with Randi particularly needs work. Dougweller ( talk) 13:12, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
Carl Sagan once offhandedly used the phrase "atmospheric beast" on an episode of Cosmos to muse about the possibility of life on gas giants like Jupiter. An obscure author named Trevor James Constable had some ideas about creatures living in Earth's atmosphere. Neither of these topics has attracted any in depth coverage by independent and reliable (read: non-UFO, non-Forteana) sources to warrant having their own articles. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 16:39, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
Is Narconon now NPOV and should the POV banner therefore be removed? Talk:Narconon#NPOV? 78.86.131.23 ( talk) 10:38, 8 April 2014 (UTC) Done thanks. Guy ( Help!) 20:38, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
Talk:Deepak Chopra#Chopra Media Representative
This section may be of interest to watchers of this noticeboard.
jps ( talk) 11:40, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
Baraminology ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
I've mentioned this article on this board before, but it really is absolutely atrocious. Much of it reads like Of Pandas and People. Can we try to align it with policies please? Can we try not to allow this kind of soapboxing?
jps ( talk) 14:34, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Is this journal a generally reliable source for altmed topics, or does it fall afoul of WP:FRIND? The specific content I have in mind is in the Traditional Chinese Medicine article: "A 2012 review found curcumin has an important role in treating diabetes" sourced to PMC 3857752 (and since removed by another editor). I note this journal is not always positive toward altmed topics. Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 08:01, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
Isn't this the journal that published that terribly designed pyramid power study? And other assorted studies so fringe as to kill its credibility? Adam Cuerden ( talk) 16:47, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
Quite a few issues ... Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 06:12, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
Creationist cosmologies ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Is this a violation of WP:SYNTH? Should this article be deleted?
jps ( talk) 16:36, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
99.22.189.113 ( talk · contribs · WHOIS) recently added a post to the talk page, claiming "Much of this article is out-of-date with more recent information about Xenu (which, btw, now is spelled Zenu with a backward "z"). It is now known that Xenu is the same being as Satan from the Hebrew scriptures. It won't be easy to verify this, but talk to User:average64 if more info is desired".
User:average64 ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) hasn't edited since 2013, and never the Xenu article. Can this information be verified? -- Auric talk 14:03, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
List of reportedly haunted locations ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) has some very dubious sources, and it is being used as a rationale to add Category:Reportedly haunted locations to locations in the list whose articles do not mention haunting, eg Giza Necropolis, Valley of the Kings and Great Wall of China. I've removed it from the first to and someone removed it from the 3rd but was reverted. Two issues really, one is cleaning up the list, the second adding categories about things that aren't mentioned in the article. Thanks. Dougweller ( talk) 10:47, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
The "haunted location" list articles are essentially an unsupervised dumping ground for rumors and bad sources. My favorite is the entry about stains on a telescope at University of Toledo. No one editor can keep up with the constant cleaning required, but maybe a Wikiproject could take these on? - LuckyLouie ( talk) 13:29, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
More fringe bollocks on imaginary voice-transmission weapons. Another contributor has now created an article entitled ' Voice-to-skull' - note the hyphens. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 17:56, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
Claimed spiritual/biological phenomena associated with near-death experiences. The article is quite a WP:BOMBARDMENT. Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 07:10, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
New Religion author active from the 1950s until his death in 1972. I'm finding some passing references but nothing that could be used as the basis of a biography; perhaps others might do better. Mangoe ( talk) 13:35, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Article using mostly fringe sources. Cannot find any reliable or skeptical/critical coverage of some of the claims. I would recommend an afd for the article or merging some of it into the telepathy article. Any thoughts? Goblin Face ( talk) 16:49, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
User:Spinningspark, insist on adding a fringe theory to
paleoclimatology (to the section of forcings). I previously removed the section because the topic of climate forcings in discussed at
Climate change, and because of the fringe theory, poor referencing (A lot of ISBN's) and false statements. In particular he wants a mention of a proposed connection between climate change and cosmic rays. The theory is from around the year 2000, and there are
31 cites on Google Scholar for the term "Cosmic rays climate". The main studies are made not by climate scientists and didn't went through proper peer-review. One study is no longer online. (The entry Ref link is broken).
I've tried to explain that cosmic rays are not a
climate proxy and that there is no credible link established between cosmic rays and climate change.
On the bottom line, i have nothing against a discussion of this theory, however i don't think it is within the scope of this article to do this.
Prokaryotes (
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Suggestion Improve the section already covering the topic, here. And adding a section @paleoclimatology, based on current content of "Controlling factors", in regards to forcings, and removing the arbitrary sub section time spans, and adding the related forcings (internal/external, which includes celestial drivers) and link to main page @climate change#causes. prokaryotes ( talk) 16:26, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Point of process, in the first diff provided by Spinningspark I thought much of the material had nothing to do with cosmic (comic?) rays. So right off the bat, deleting other stuff with a cosmic ray complaint raises red flags. Suggest Prok. do a new deletion removing just the objectionable cosmic rays material, and then self revert. That would not be edit warring (since he would self revert the demo edit) but it would provide an easy way to communicate the narrow scope of the precise text that is at issue in this thread. NewsAndEventsGuy ( talk) 16:57, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Some discussion at Eurythmy over how medical claims made for it should be included, and on whether/how an OUP published book on Integrative Oncology is usable. More eyes would be welcome. Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 12:28, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
Norway's former prime minister. There is a discussion on the talk page regarding to weather the Prime Minister said anything against Israel or its just a POV, as is stated by @ Huldra: and @ Bjerrebæk:. Me and @ Yambaram: have agreed that at least the JPost article is a legit reason to include such content, besides JPost, there were refs from Arutz Sheva and FrontPage Magazine, so it is not a POV by all means. I would like an uninvolved admin to intervene.-- Mishae ( talk) 19:28, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
Reshuffling of a previously deleted article. Sensational claims with no sources. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 18:40, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
Active edit war with two spa's that don't seem to understand WP:NPOV, consensus, general editing policies and how to count (much less WP:FRINGE and WP:MEDRS. Subject of 3RR noticeboard report. - - MrBill3 ( talk) 08:14, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
Hi folks,
TL;DR: If you're dealing with a newbie editor who has started off in a WP:FRINGE area and is floundering, and if you don't have the time/patience/inclination to shepherd the editor to the point where they're able to make a positive contribution, then I'd be willing to help with a bit of mentoring.
Long version: We get lots of newbie WP:SPAs in WP:FRINGE areas. Most of them aren't able and/or willing to make a useful contribution. A few of them (and it may be a very small minority) might develop into valued editors given a bit of mentoring; more specifically, mentoring that steers them out of WP:FRINGE areas until they have a firmer grasp of WP:RS and how it gets applied. Trying to learn this while one's edits are getting reverted is difficult. Trying to learn this while stewing over a block just doesn't happen. If you're working with a new, enthusiastic editor who is making new-enthusiastic-editor mistakes, and you think that editor might benefit from a third-party explaining what the mistakes are before the situation devolves to edit wars and blocks, I'm happy to assist. I will not be making any edits to the articles under discussion, and will be encouraging the newbie to put off editing those articles until they've gained experience elsewhere.
I expect the success rate to be low (where success is measured as positive, sustained contribution, whether in WP:FRINGE articles, others, or both). That's fine. If the rate is zero, then I'll eventually decide to focus my efforts elsewhere. Suggestions and comments are welcome.
Lesser Cartographies ( talk) 16:29, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Miraculous cures for cancer are mentioned, and the founder claims for AIDS and schizophrenia too. I'm inclined to think at least the entire "Medical studies" section here can be deleted, and some of the other wild claims need mainstream context. This type of yoga does not seem to have got much skeptical coverage though ... Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 13:35, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
Multiple explanations of policy and specific examples have been provided on the talk page. IDHT seems to be happening. A good fringe editor might want to step in and cut the promotional content and statements presented without balance and proper attribution. - - MrBill3 ( talk) 16:01, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia articles seem very keen on the theory that Dhul-Qarnayn refers to Cyrus the Great. It is currently given most weight in Cyrus the Great in the Quran and Dhul-Qarnayn, where at the latter it says, "In modern scholarship the character is identified as Cyrus the Great." And it cites only Volume 4 of Alameh Tehrani's Eschatology in Arabic: [48]. I can only read a machine translation of this, but his argument at times seems to depend on a premise of Quranic inerrantism, which does not seem like it would be afforded much weight within mainstream scholarship. I can't find anyone who cites Tehrani on this issue. When I confer with the mainstream texts in English, they don't even mention this theory, and rather affirm that the identification with Alexander is the standard view: The Blackwell Companion to the Qur'ān says: "Dhū'l-Qarnayn, an epithet usually assigned to Alexander the Great but also attributed to Moses by Muslim as well as Jewish and Christian exegetes." (Wheeler, p. 260). The Brill Encyclopedia of Islam, second edition says "It is generally agreed both by Muslim commentators and modern occidental scholars that D̲h̲u ’l-Ḳarnayn, “the two-horned”, in Sūra XVIII, 83/82-98 is to be identified with Alexander the Great." (Watt, "al-Iskandar"). The third edition says "Dhū al-Qarnayn (usually identified with Alexander the Great)" (Cook, "Gog and Magog"). The Brill Encyclopedia of the Qurʾān says "Traditional and modern scholars have identified the figure the Qurʾān refers to as the Possessor of the Two Horns (Dhū l-Qarnayn, q 18:83, 86, 94) as Alexander the Great (al-Iskandar in Arabic)." (Renard, "Alexander") What's the deal here? Is this a fringe theory being promoted? -- Atethnekos ( Discussion, Contributions) 20:38, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
The article isn't in great shape, but there's one particularly problematic bit; Dulles' supposed ties to Nazi Germany. Frankly I'm inclined to just throw it out, but there does seem to be a source for it and I'm not really familiar with policy in this area. The claims don't seem to have garnered any maintstream attention. Suggestions? -- RaiderAspect ( talk) 06:48, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
A relatively new user, BernardZ, has taken to making a number of sweeping claims based on newly-published research and reports that seem unsupported by any other academic (or otherwise) sources.
The extra commentary added to Sunstone (medieval) with this edit (note additional personal theorising in the edit summary) and to Agriculture with this edit (again with personal theorising) are both based on extracts from recently-published Royal Society papers. Grammatical and WP:MOS errors and personal theories aside, are these strong enough sources to justify the insertion of significant new material into articles?
A half-way-point would be to add the material with an attribution to the publishers, making it clear that it is their theory, it's new and untested and stand-alone by comparison to other academia.
I removed both but was accused of "wikihounding" (having also removed several instances of completely unsourced original research from the same editor). Some extra eyes/advice from FRINGE/N regulars would be appreciated. Stalwart 111 02:24, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
Thinking there's a notability issue here ... Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 04:32, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Fringe article with more stuff added today. I know the editor added copyvio to another article ( Philosophy and Spiritualism of Sri Aurobindo) but I can't tell if the material added to this article is copyvio from [50] as the Internet archive doesn't have an earlier version with the same text, but I suspect it is. Dougweller ( talk) 10:19, 18 April 2014 (UTC)
This page is an archive. Do not edit the contents of this page. Please direct any additional comments to the current main page. |
Constructal law - comes across as pseudo-science pushed by one academic, but perhaps not. The talk page has a couple important questions that should be answered and yet haven't been in nearly a year, which rings alarm bells to me. Also, one of its proponents, an editor "Mr env" User:Mre env seems to be pushing it in many inappropriate places, like the advocates of other pseudo-sciences do, where links to the article are added to likely irrelevant pages. The editor also seems to push flattering references to works by the academic who "discovered" constructal law, Adrian Bejan, making me think there might be some biased relationship between the editor and the academic. Considering the probably dubious nature of the topic and the somewhat insidious way references are being pushed into various topics by someone who might have a conflict of interest, hopefully someone can review this and figure out what to do. 38.65.195.5 ( talk) 00:47, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
Fringe article about a forged document, but the article also seems to be putting forth the idea that the story of Adam and Eve comes from the Hindu religion, eg that "Adimo" can be found in the Rigveda and that " Adimo is a character of a folk tale, which was written by Ramutsariar, about 2,000 of years before Bible". Dougweller ( talk) 21:51, 19 February 2014 (UTC)
Ruggero Santilli ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
This WP:FRINGEBLP survived a deletion discussion last decade, but I'm not sure the guy is all that notable. Do we have independent sources for this article? Can we clear out some of the cruft?
jps ( talk) 22:23, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
Good article nominee, and I'm actually leaning towards passing it, but this is one of those cases where there's so much quackery around the subject that we need to get things right the first time. Could everyone please have a look, make any appropriate tweaks, and tell me if you see any major problems that I might be missing?
Cheers!
Adam Cuerden ( talk) 15:16, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
Is there any non-fringe sources to demonstrate notability for this wheatgrass-eating Bigfoot knock-off? It's also infecting our Akron, Ohio article, cited to something called the "Bigfoot Research Organization." - LuckyLouie ( talk) 21:22, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, I've cleaned it up. No matter that they call them "investigations", I think all can agree that the TV shows are entertainment, and so should be placed in the context of popular culture.- LuckyLouie ( talk) 03:20, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
anyone familiar with
The one has serious autobiography problems, and I havent yet checked out the other, but anything calling itself "Breakthrough" cancer research screams of Fringe medicine. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 14:09, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
A paranormal concept of Michael Thalbourne. All references are either primary/unreliable (from Thalbourne) in parapsychology journals or in fringe paranormal books. I can't find any reliable references for this concept apart from one mention of it in a psychology book [2]. I think a redirect to Thalbourne would be suitable. An entire article to this fringe concept seems unnecessary as there are not enough reliable sources on the subject matter. Goblin Face ( talk) 15:51, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Pierre-Marie Robitaille.
Input into this discussion would be appreciated.
jps ( talk) 14:07, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
It's being used as a main source on a whole lot of fringe theory articles but its web presence seems just plain gone. Is this publication still extant? Here's its link: [ [3]] Simonm223 ( talk) 20:05, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Is speciesism [4] [5] too fringe to be put in the "See also" section of Animal husbandry? -- Jeandré, 2014-02-19 t12:18z
This was created in December, 2013. It obviously slipped under the radar. There's some hilarious stuff in there, a lot of original research by the looks of it. Alfred Russel Wallace as a genetic argument for influence on ancient aliens? Goblin Face ( talk) 03:51, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
This is a strange article, no references at all and a quick look and I can't find anything reliable. It says he worked at the University of Gottingen but I can't find any reliable references for this. Only one book reference I can see mentions him [6] Von Daniken lol.. not exactly known for his reliability. He described Fiebag as a secondary school teacher. I think this could meet the criteria of being a quick delete. Goblin Face ( talk) 18:53, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
Never heard of this guy before, can't find any reliable references. As it stands the only references that mention him are dubious parapsychology links like Michael Talbot of the "hologram" fame or Raymond Moody. I think afd would be suitable here.
The same thing is happening with this guy Zdeněk Rejdák. It's either self-published sources, unreliable parapsychology journals or fringe writers like Michael Talbot being cited. Goblin Face ( talk) 16:02, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
This is an article related to dowsing but I can't find a single reliable reference for what it is supposed to be. Might be worth redirecting it to this article Earth radiation which I will try to improve. A similar article here Bovis scale. Any thoughts about what to do with these? Goblin Face ( talk) 03:09, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Seems to be a rather unknown psychic. Only references I can find are his own website, paranormal blogs or youtube. Goblin Face ( talk) 16:16, 22 February 2014 (UTC)
A tiny article, needs eyes (and, if possible, expansion!) Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 21:00, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
(add) In fact, after a good hunt around, this topic does not seem to receive any good coverage outside the world of Rosen/bodywork publications (which are currently being used in the article, wrongly IMHO). Even Quackwatch just gives it a passing mention. Wondering if it should be AfD'd. Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 10:31, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
It's vital that wikipedia not report dubious medical claims as if they were true (in-universe explanation) however noting the existence of dubious medical claims falls within the boundaries of WP:FRINGE Simonm223 ( talk) 15:07, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
This device doesn't seem to meet any WP standards of notability and lack serious in depth coverage by reliable sources. Past discussions indicate that the only reason the article exists is due to a single editor's filibustering efforts. LuckyLouie ( talk) 19:44, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
Having difficulty finding any reliable references for this psychic. Goblin Face ( talk) 01:40, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Nothing particularly wrong at the moment, though the article could use some style work, but there's been a low level debate going on over at global warming including links to this article added and removed - so it might be a good idea to keep eyes here unless somebody decides to try and slip something in the back-door. Simonm223 ( talk) 19:00, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
It occurs to me that a lot of this discussion on FTN is going to be hard to find for anyone coming to this article later. Should we move/mirror/transclude this discussion to the talk page over at Global warming pause? 0x0077BE [ talk/ contrib] 15:34, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Should be deleted or redirected. There's no references for this. Any thoughts? Goblin Face ( talk) 16:07, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Having difficulty finding reliable references for this author. He seems to have written some fringe books in the vein of John Keel, but I can't find any book reviews. Goblin Face ( talk) 02:26, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
Editor currently trying to soften language regarding general scientific consensus surrounding Morphic Resonance. Simonm223 ( talk) 17:45, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
People can do what they like on their own personal pages really. I'm not concerned about his accusations of a wikipedia cabal there. I just think that it'd be a good idea to keep an eye on the page itself until he relaxes a little - especially as the article is under a WP:1RR arbitration enforcement and has been an edit war zone in the past. Simonm223 ( talk) 18:08, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
You mean Tom Butler? He's mostly harmless because he knows when to back down when he's losing. He was also warned at WP:ARBPSCI, so further concerns regarding him should be referred to WP:AE. jps ( talk) 18:10, 26 February 2014 (UTC)
Both have published some fringe work on NDEs. Having difficulty finding reliable references for their claims. Goblin Face ( talk) 02:29, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
Fringe proponent on the parapsychology talk-page not listening to a word anyone has said, citing the same old pseudoscience etc and ignoring scientific references on the topic. Now claiming people are "strawmanning" in his edit summaries. Seems to be using the talk-page like a forum instead of proposing anything productive. Is it worth just ignoring him? Goblin Face ( talk) 23:44, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Back in August the Jahn article got a huge shot of the fringe theory stuff from the Princeton_Engineering_Anomalies_Research_Lab article. The article is currently effectively a glowing endorsement of his parapsychological work. I was scanning it in light of the renewed interest in parapsychologists I've seen through my watchlist and found out. I'm going to be WP:BOLD and remove a bunch of the NPOV content but if there is anyone else who wants to reinsert something that should be in there (in case I cut too much), or if there is anyone who can find better sources for information please lend a hand. Simonm223 ( talk) 00:41, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
Simon, your cause isn't in the interest of maintaining a neutral point of view. I have plenty of evidence showing that you two aren't approaching this objectively at all. The PEAR article looks fine and neutral. It doesn't need any "touch-ups", unless of course you want to stick in some stuff from Robert Todd Carroll's website that can be refuted quite easily. PhiChiPsiOmega ( talk) 00:56, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
Center_for_Science_in_the_Public_Interest#Of_science - Is this GMO scaremongering, or is it a legitimate complaint? If it's just scaremongering, then surely the title of the section (it's a subheading of "Criticism") is pushing a fringe theory? Adam Cuerden ( talk) 12:56, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
I happened across Diseases from Space, which seems to be a massive (43 kB) uncritical article on a book by Hoyle and Wickramasinghe about their fringe space pathogen hypothesis. The one acknowledgement of criticism is a mention that it was "a highly controversial book when it first came out in 1979" in the lead. I'm unsure what the SOP is for articles on books specifically promoting a certain view, so I'd appreciate it if someone could take a look at it. It's already got a half page {{multiple issues}} box, so in need of cleanup no matter what. Kolbasz ( talk) 13:38, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
This one netted me a user page vandal. Lol! Simonm223 ( talk) 10:11, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
I just added the Fringe Theory Template on the Joel Fuhrman article. With the following comments on the talk page. "...since there is no counter points made to Mr. Fuhrman's claims in the article, specifically about his health equation. He has made many claims that claim he can cure any number of diseases including certain kinds of cancer with diet alone. This article needs a complete rewrite, eventually; the problem is most of the media attention that he has gotten is positive, despite his dubious claims." VViking Talk Edits 13:40, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Are Riki Ott's claims of government coverup, and some of the other toxicity claims in the Corexit article (especially in the criticism section) fringe? A review of the talk page shows that the community there does not consider NOAA, the EPA, and other government agencies as reliable sources because of the alleged coverup. This same group has been heavily involved in the several other articles related to the Deepwater Horizon Oil Spill. Geogene ( talk) 17:47, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
Diffs please. Simonm223 ( talk) 23:53, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
While this is a fringe theory noticeboard, there are some claims being made that, whilst having nothing to do with the topic here, need to be corrected.
Georgette has changed
Georgette also added the bit from NIOSH to the BP oil spill article, in which the government seems to blame the oil workers for not wearing protective gear, however it was not added that workers' jobs were threatened if they did wear masks or respirators.( NYT CNN)
The type of hyper-editingas seen by Georette's contributions in the past week or so, considered alongside the ongoing, multi-billion dollar court case which BP is fighting right now, which is focused specifically on the amount of environmental damage that was done, is troubling to say the least. Also my words are being taken out of context and misused here. I said that we don't necessarily take the words of government officials as RS, and I showed where they did indeed get busted trying to cover up news of the oil plumes at the height of the spill. So to quote an agency (NOAA) who was caught lying, and to say that it should trump Al Jazeera, is certainly going to be challenged. Ideally, there would be more help available at pages like this, when a high value trial is ongoing. The usual editors are pretty burned out at this point, FYI. petrarchan47 t c 01:56, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Geogene response:well, I'm not sure how you messed my name when it's right there in front of you, but I'm a "he".
Now, I'm concerned about these kneejerk accusations of COI: [16], [17], [18], [19], [20], [21], [22], [23], [24], [25], [26], in which Petrarchan47 accuses pretty much anyone that disagrees with her of working for either the NSA or BP, or else insinuates that she and her friends are the only ones there for acceptable reasons. She was kind enough to repeat the accusation above. There's always "a court case", timing is always "suspicious"...I don't know if she is just naturally prone to that sort of thinking, or if she does this to try to run off editors that don't carry her point of view. Regardless, it's tedious, and I'm about ready to take it to the ANI, this is probably the last straw. Geogene ( talk) 02:17, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
I'm getting an impression of "environmental/political activism" vs. "here to build an encyclopedia". Whatever it is, you guys need help. This noticeboard isn't the place for it. Maybe dispute resolution or arbitration, but not here. Thanks. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 02:33, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Only source provided is a paper written by the owner of radhaz.com [27] - a purveyor of fine EmF fear based products. I've asked on talk a few times for contact with the author on notability but they've continued editing this article, and including links to it and RF based spyware on other radiation metering pages without engaging at all. If anyone thinks they can save this one, find some reliable sources for why this device is notable I'd love to see it - because my instinct is that there is a case for notability. But the article author didn't produce a case and I feel this would be better off at AfC. Simonm223 ( talk) 19:53, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Kumari Kandam has been heavily revised recently, and now contains original research, heavy use of someone named K.Appadurai, statements like "is probable" with no source, etc. See the talk page discussion. I must admit I haven't looked at this for a few days. I note for instance a new Satellite image claimed to resemble Mt Meru but with apparently no source. Dougweller ( talk) 19:19, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
This article has got some history, check the talk page. Most editors have agreed it should be redirected but it never was. I suggest a redirect to parapsychology. Goblin Face ( talk) 02:37, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
Redirected to Extrasensory perception. - - MrBill3 ( talk) 09:29, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
WTF is this? I can't see any reliable sources being used, and it looks like woo. WP:AFD? Barney the barney barney ( talk) 14:14, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Enjoy. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 02:10, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Non notable fringe physicist. Can't find any reliable sources. Goblin Face ( talk) 11:36, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
IP is deleting references from the article and deleting any mention that Parnia's work is parapsychology based. He's done this a number of times now. Goblin Face ( talk) 01:03, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Pseudoscience ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
An editor deleted relevant text from Pseudoscience#Demographics section.
The source is published in BJP. This proposal lost interest because editors did not feel it is a useful reference for the proposed text. The source is relevant to the pseudoscience page and all the proposed text is supported by the published reliable reference.
Proposal 1: Restore text to Pseudoscience#Demographics:
Restore following sourced text: ==> Pseudoscientific examples can be found in practically any country. For example, the ' Keep libel laws out of science' campaign was launched in the UK in June 2009 after the science writer Simon Singh, who alerted the people about the lack of evidence to support chiropractic treatments, was sued for libel by the British Chiropractic Association.
Proposal 2: Restore text to WP:LEAD:
Restore following sourced text: ==> Pseudoscience, superstitions, and quackery are serious matters that are a threat to public health.
Proposal 3: Restore text to Pseudoscience#Health and education implications:
Restore following sourced text: ==> Superstitions, beliefs that are irrational and usually involve cause-and-effect relationships that are not real, are categorized as pseudoscience and quackery. Quackery is a specific type of pseudoscience that alludes medical treatments. As many governmental and skeptical organizations are actively fighting against pseudoscience and related issues, their efforts to make the public aware of the scientific rigor required to make informed choices are not always as effective as anticipated to reduce the impact of pseudoscience.
Here is text from the source that shows the proposal is sourced.
The issue here is not a matter of
WP:V or
WP:RS because Matute is a good source for the article.
WP:NPOV requires that the existing mainstream view is fairly represented. I checked the article history. This
deleted relevant text from the article and this
also deleted text that is related to demographics and to the article.
_-Quack
o
Guru-_ 04:35, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
Could use some eyes on it. I've reverted an IP's pov editing there twice. Dougweller ( talk) 21:33, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
The user Hawol has been doing mass edits on this article for a few months. He/she has done some good work but most of the sources which have been added on the NDE (Fenwick, Greyson, Parnia, Lommel) etc all advocate a sort of mind-body dualism or a spiritual interpretation of the NDE, this is not the position held by the scientific consensus. There's now nearly 100 references on the article but less than 10 references in the skeptical section. The same user has also done mass edits to the Transpersonal psychology article. Like above has done some good work but in places deleted some critical references on the topic. I don't know what to suggest here, but the NDE article is completely unbalanced. Goblin Face ( talk) 03:04, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Struggling here to find any reliable sources. I thought a book review might turn up but so far have not been able to find anything. Any help would be appreciated. Goblin Face ( talk) 23:56, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
Not sure what to do here, according to his article he has published a lot of books but the article reads like an advertisement. Says he has been on the TV and has various media appearances but I can't seem to find any reliable sources. Goblin Face ( talk) 16:08, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
Shag Harbour UFO incident (
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It's
up for AfD but there seems to be the minimal amount of newspaper coverage to satisfy notability. My concern is that the article contains huge sections of
WP:OR and fringe conspiracy views given heavy
undue weight.
One especially conspiracy-minded section is sourced entirely to a book called Dark Object: The World's Only Government-Documented UFO Crash co-authored by
Whitley Strieber. -
LuckyLouie (
talk) 19:00, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
A 2011 review of reviews: Ernst, E; et al. (2011). "Acupuncture: Does it alleviate pain and are there serious risks? A review of reviews". Pain. 152 (4): 755–64. doi: 10.1016/j.pain.2010.11.004. PMID 21440191.
A 2013 systematic review: Bergqvist D (2013). "Vascular injuries caused by acupuncture. A systematic review". International Angiology. 32 (1): 1–8. PMID 23435388.
A 2011 systematic review: Ernst E, Zhang J (2011). "Cardiac tamponade caused by acupuncture: a review of the literature". Int J Cardiol. 16 (3): 287–289. doi: 10.1016/j.ijcard.2010.10.016. PMID 21093944.
All above reviews are relevant to the article and obviously meets MEDRS. It is not undueweight because deaths after acupuncture are rare. QuackGuru ( talk) 07:56, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
The current discussion is at Talk:Acupuncture#Removal of reviews. QuackGuru ( talk) 16:58, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
This is a psychic but I can't find any notable or mainstream publications that mention him. The article has been a mess for years. I think afd would be appropriate. Let me know your thoughts. Goblin Face ( talk) 00:04, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
BLP of a Scottish astronomer who expresses fringe theories about alien space probes, matter transfer accidents, and other unconventional opinions. Needs someone familiar with the subject to look it over. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 16:38, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
Related to above. It's up for AfD. Only non-fringe sources are Brian Dunning and an Irish planetarium's blog. Notable? Could be. Then again, maybe not. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 18:14, 12 March 2014 (UTC)
Valentich disappearance (
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There's some insistence on presenting UFOlogists "findings" on an equal footing with DOT findings - cited to fringy sources like "Victorian UFO Research Society" as seen
here (by an editor coincidentally named "vufors"). -
LuckyLouie (
talk) 02:42, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
A little overreaction, I'd say. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 16:37, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Recently cleaned of OR cited to primary sources and reliable sources being misrepresented. Bears watching. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 00:34, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
Has seen some heavy editing of late, especially to the lede. More eyes/views would be helpful. Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 06:28, 11 March 2014 (UTC)
Some people may want to take a look at this. It seems a bit off, especially this section and this addition. -- Calton | Talk 19:04, 13 March 2014 (UTC)
People may wish to weigh in at Talk:Ken_Ham#Editing_the_lead_without_discussion_here_first . -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 23:31, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
The article is currently locked pending consensus. As absurd as it seems consensus needs to be established that WP should assert the age of the Earth as a fact. Intelligent input (not design) might be helpful. - - MrBill3 ( talk) 04:00, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
I see a fringe theory being pushed by a user across a number of articles related to North Korea. North Korea and its governing party are widely considered as hardline communist. North Korea has the most rigid socialist planned economy that is still left in the world.
Now, a user is making a long story in a number of articles asserting that North Korea is not 'actually communist' at all, but rather 'far-right' and 'fascist'. Examples: Juche#.22Socialism_without_Socialism.22, edit warring to remove 'socialism' from the infobox: [31], despite the fact that NK is officially socialist according to its constitution. The whole ideology section on Worker's Party of Korea only reflects the view that this party is not really communist. This is being done by range of selective quotations. The user concerned has cherrypicked two or three sources based on which he's pushing his fringe view in every article connected with North Korea.
I've tried to explain him numerous times the simple fact that most noncommunists consider North Korea as communist. Most communists similarly consider North Korea as communist. You only get 22,000 Google hits, most of those with little substance, when you google 'North Korea ″not communist″. When you Google 'North Korea Communist', you get no less than 17 million hits. What the user is pushing is a minority view within a minority. He has been criticized from both anticommunist (me) and pro-communist perspective ( [32]) for his pet theories, to no avail. Patent case of WP:FRINGE. Lokalkosmopolit ( talk) 12:52, 16 March 2014 (UTC)
I think that the position of Brian Reynolds Myers, that the DPRK is a racist, fascist state, is noteworthy. However, I think the problem is creating a false consensus around the opinions of Myers and people like him by a synthesis of cherrypicked quotations. (I don't think it is just TIAYN who is doing this.) I don't think the issue is just selectivity of sources, but selectivity in quoting those sources. As one example, I checked the citation of Bruce Cumings in the Juche article against his original text (Korea's Place in the Sun). Cumings writes:
and
However, the citation of Cumings focuses on his comments about corporatism and Japanese fascism (from the same passage in the original text, though quoted from another source) and puts them under the heading "Socialism without Socialism". This gives the impression that Cumings agrees with Myers, which is false.-- Jack Upland ( talk) 03:34, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
According to mystic seers, the characteristic blue haze seen in mountain canyons, currently attributed to Mie scattering-theory, is the most dense form of the Aether: the Chemical Ether. - Etheric plane.
The majority of modern physicists, in spite of acknowledging the phenomena known as vacuum energy and the existence of other unsolved problems in physics that are unexplained by current standard theories, continue to maintain that there is no need to imagine that a medium for propagation of electromagnetic waves exists [...] However, there have been a number of physicists in western countries whose research, currently considered fringe and controversial among the mainstream scientific community, shows evidence of the existence of the dynamic aether possessing a fluid crystal-like structure and permeating all space, in an apparent accordance with recent experiments and as formerly outlined by Theosophical and Rosicrucian esoteric schools. - Etheric plane
In contrast to Western secular modernist and post-modern thought, in occult and esoteric cosmology, thoughts and consciousness are not just a byproduct of brain functioning, but have their own objective and universal reality quite independent of the physical. - Mental plane
A teaching prevalent in the West is mathematics, which was greatly added to by Pythagoreanism and Philosophy (Platonism, Neoplatonism), the oldest non-mythic (besides Egyptian) Western wisdom teachings. Math once meant "magic" and is still important in occultism., especially topics farther beyond the earthly. Any mathematician who considers the mental plane's dimensionality equal to or more than the earthly one defines them as "hyperplanes." - Mental plane
...What the fuck? These are stating everything as factual.. they're claiming, explicitly, that science is wrong and they're right... and there's dozens of other articles in the categories these are from...
I'm genuinely horrified that this has been on Wikipedia so long... Adam Cuerden ( talk) 09:29, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
See WP:ANI#MEAT at Vassula Ryden. Dougweller ( talk) 10:44, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
Jabal al-Lawz ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
A fringe claim that this is Mt. Sinai seems to be dominating this page. I think we should remove it entirely, but thought I'd post here to get other opinions. jps ( talk) 11:29, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cosmic consciousness.
Thoughts would be appreciated.
jps ( talk) 11:33, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
Ascended master ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
That's a pretty long article for not very much independent notice. It's hard for me to tell how much is original research and how much is well-documented dogma of the theosophists. Are there any experts in spiritualism that can have a crack at this?
jps ( talk) 12:02, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
Transpersonal psychology ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Seemingly largely overlooked by this board, this article is rather unwieldy. There is evidence in the literature that this fringe field of psychology has adherents, but we desperately need independent sources to corroborate a lot of what appears to me to be soapboxing in the article. Compare to parapsychology which has a lot better neutral treatment.
jps ( talk) 12:06, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
I don't get these articles at all. I realise they're minority religious beliefs, so, you know, just because I don't believe them doesn't mean they're unsuited for Wikipedia, but, at the same time, they don't explain terms, and are a word salad to the uninitiated. Anyone get these? Adam Cuerden ( talk) 07:18, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
I would appreciate outside input on whether we should mention the non-existent medical condition adrenal fatigue on this page, such as in this diff. Discussion on started on the talk page. Thank you. Yobol ( talk) 14:59, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
Chinese spirit possession (
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Seems to blur the line between a cultural concept and supernatural claims. -
LuckyLouie (
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Enfield Monster (
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My impression is that this is non notable fringe nonsense, but since I've had some
recent history with this user, I'd appreciate an independent evaluation. -
LuckyLouie (
talk) 18:58, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
I think all the references are unreliable. It looks like a hoax article. QuackGuru ( talk) 18:14, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Finally got around to cleaning out the non RS sources and giving the article a much needed copyedit [36]. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 21:16, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
You'll note I'm not jumping up and down to AfD this one either. However I felt it fit a trend of articles edited by an IP editor who is passionate about cryptids that could probably do with a once over. Cheers.
Simonm223 (
talk) 17:35, 7 March 2014 (UTC)
Loveland frog anyone? Sufficiently sourced? Barney the barney barney ( talk) 09:53, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
Oh, and take a cruise through Infobox mythical creature: what links here sometime. Many of the "Grouping" and "Subgrouping" entries read like fan fiction. Brosno dragon, for example. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 15:05, 14 March 2014 (UTC)
Please note the discussion, at Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/Noticeboard#Dreams from My Real Father, regarding the appropriate wording of the lede for the article Dreams from My Real Father, which discusses a film that claims Barack Obama's biological father was Frank Marshall Davis. -- Arxiloxos ( talk) 23:11, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
I've noticed some troubling POV editing on Aromatherapy by Dr. Cory Schultz. According to Google, this person is an 'E-natropath'. I'm going to have a go at cleaning this up later today. -- Salimfadhley ( talk) 10:04, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
The article has been pretty much whitewashed with nothing indicating where the guys claims sit in response to the mainstream and in fact the "fringe" template has been removed from the talk page!-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 03:04, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
Research on meditation ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
I tried to be bold and redirect this mess to meditation, but there are certain folks sitting on it claiming it is full of important information. Still looks like a mess to me. Help stubbing out for a merge back to where it belongs would be appreciated.
jps ( talk) 11:21, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
We need editors keeping an eye on these. Looks like there is going to be a campaign to have these articles reflect Osmanagic's views, see [37]. Dougweller ( talk) 06:27, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
Article on a fairly obscure fringe topic. Many of the reference links are to paranormal supporting sites. Seems in need of a cleanup. Graham1973 ( talk) 01:51, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
Twelve Holy Days ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Should this article exist? jps ( talk) 12:38, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
Joseph A. Citro (
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Appears to be a non notable author; the only coverage I could find of him was a couple of local stories in the Bangor, Maine newspaper. A walled garden of his various (likely not notable) works exists on Wikipedia:
AfD, or redirect to Bennington Triangle? - LuckyLouie ( talk) 18:53, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
An editor has been at work lately creating & modifying:
Many poorly-sourced links to the same domains. All/some of these probably need attention with an eye (at least) to WP:FRINGE. Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 20:58, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
The article on Trey Gowdy has misleading information when it makes mention of Trey Gowdy's award from a right-wing think tank in re the Affordable Care Act as "government-run" healthcare. I have tried to add a disclaimer that the ACA is not a 'government-run' healthcare system, but the editor of the page removes it by using the excuse that it is a quote. I am trying to bring clarity to the article by stating that there is disagreement as to the ACA being 'government-run'. The editor of this page continues to delete my entries because the misinformation is from a direct quote. I have backed up my entry by citing Factcheck. org.
User Ersby deleting skeptical references on the ganzfeld experiment claiming they are "POV". He's also done the same on the Charles Honorton article, instead re-placing reliable references with parapsychology journals. Goblin Face ( talk) 18:02, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
New article needs help. Removed unreliable sources, but overly credulous prose needs to be checked against existing sources. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 19:53, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
Telephone hypnosis ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Stumbled across this article in the new page feed. It seems to be filled with paranoid conspiracy claims - e.g. "Because telephone hypnosis is sometime undetectable by the patient, one way to detect it is to record your phone calls by using a suction microphone", or the removed "headhunters sometime use the technique of telephone hypnosis on job seekers". Is there a legitimate technique with this name (a cursory PubMed search didn't turn up anything) or is it unsalvageably fringe? Kolbasz ( talk) 23:08, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
My sinister agents tell me that the email campaign by the atroturfing group the ANP Coalition (run by a director of the clinic and his wife) is pressing its email campaign resulting in literally several emails to OTRS. The message is simple:
These claims are all, of course, false. The article is accurate, there is no evidence of paid advocacy outside the fevered imagination of Burzynski's propagandist Eric Merola (a Truther and general conspiracy believer who was art director on Zeitgeist: The Movie, directed by his brother Peter), the article is only semi protected.
Please add the article to your watchlists. Burzynski is trying the same tactics as he did in the 1990s: he's employing lobbyists, using parents of terminal children as cannon fodder to take his special pleading to anyone who will listen, and spinning like mad to try to cover up the long history of ethical violations and the absence of any credible evidence of effect.
It seems that two sources dominate in discussion: USA Today and Wikipedia. Our article is accurate, robustly sourced and comprehensive. They cannot fix USA Today (though they have tried), they will not give up on Wikipedia. Guy ( Help!) 15:03, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
A POV fork of Electromagnetic radiation and health. A product of the sock farm actively spreading electromagnetic radiation paranoia and pushing metering products. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 19:36, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
Everyone see these:
Do we need to change WP:FRINGE to reflect this? Barney the barney barney ( talk) 19:00, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
New editor without a clue about our copyvio policies (I've deleted one article about Man: Whence, How and Whither which was just copyvio) creating new articles. See K.H. Letters to C.W. Leadbeater. Dougweller ( talk) 14:44, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
Something weird going on here. Strikertype ( talk · contribs) turned up whitewashing the article three times claiming Radin wants his article deleted even though the article is well referenced. His last edit summary is threatening legal action. An afd has now been opened. Goblin Face ( talk) 13:14, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
To me, this newly created article looks ripe for deletion, but I'd like more experienced eyes on it. - Roxy the dog ( resonate) 15:37, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
This was previously discussed here and redirected to EMF meter. Now it's back, with two new articles Trifield meter and RF meter that duplicate it in some form. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 16:41, 20 March 2014 (UTC)
Potentially some commercial activity/COI connected to this user. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 15:08, 21 March 2014 (UTC)
IP activity connecting this topic to the various metering devices. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 15:30, 22 March 2014 (UTC)
Propose close: All of these have now been speedy deleted under Banned or Blocked user. Flat Out let's discuss it 23:08, 27 March 2014 (UTC)
Electrosmog (
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Blatant tinfoil-hattery sourced to stuff like
this and connected to a walled garden of
related articles. -
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See also:
Electronic harassment (
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LuckyLouie (
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And:
Dirty electricity (
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Seems to be a number of SPA's active in creating/maintaining a cluster of articles with a slant toward tinfoil-hattery. -
LuckyLouie (
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Faradaytent (
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Emrhealth (
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Hynosisinfo (
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Meterclassification (
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Now at SPI - LuckyLouie ( talk) 21:51, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
Daniel J. Benor ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Nice little advert we have going here. Can someone help make it a little less spammy?
jps ( talk) 23:54, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
CSD A7 tag placed. - - MrBill3 ( talk) 04:05, 19 March 2014 (UTC)
This article, created in 2007 by the same editor as Isogai dynamic therapy (above) has obviously been below the radar in all this time. - Roxy the dog ( resonate) 16:40, 28 March 2014 (UTC)
An editor is making unhelpful edits to the acupuncture article. He is removing images and creating a separate section for only two sentences. None of the edits improved the article. The current discussion is at Talk:Acupuncture#Misplaced text and deletion of images. QuackGuru ( talk) 06:28, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
Background information: There is a non-notable fringe article in mainspace. It barely survived AFD. See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/German Acupuncture Trials.
An editor is deleting sourced text without gaining consensus first. See Talk:German acupuncture trials#Proposal. See Talk:German acupuncture trials#Birch came back in.2C deleted again. For non-medical claims the Journal of traditional Chinese medicine is usable according to User:Alexbrn. QuackGuru ( talk) 20:10, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
The sourced text is being deleted but the statements are not fringe. The statements are non-medicals claims. QuackGuru ( talk) 20:37, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
I removed some poorly sourced material from Pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) - sourced only to a fringe publication, no discussion in reliable sources, no evidence the author is the expert he's claimed to be (which wouldn't override WP:UNDUE as you'd have to shown him significantly mentioned in reliable sources). Surprise, User:Til Eulenspiegel reverted me crying censorship. Dougweller ( talk) 13:25, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
I've raised the COI edits by this fringe author at WP:COIN#User Louise Goueffic. Dougweller ( talk) 18:04, 30 March 2014 (UTC)
Howdy WP:FRINGE fans. Consistent with my want to create/improve articles for all sorts of bizarre Christian paraphernalia (see Gospel of Jesus' wife and Catacomb saints for example), I have today created an article for the Chalice of Doña Urraca. This particular cup already has an article on the Spanish Wikipedia (has had since 2009) and seemed notable enough to justify the effort. Add to that, late last month some local Spanish historians published a book claiming the chalice was, in fact, the true Holy Grail. The chalice's post-12th century provenance is well-established and extensively documented (it basically hasn't moved for the better part of 800 years). But the Grail claim is new, disputed and possibly a fringe theory. Well-referenced additions and more eyes would be welcome. Stalwart 111 09:47, 1 April 2014 (UTC)
Need eyes on Water fluoridation controversy and Fluoridation by country as a new editor has been making some edits that appear to be slanted against water fluoridation. Thanks! Yobol ( talk) 18:43, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
Probably not, but there's no realistic way he can keep editing his pet topics if he doesn't learn to accept guidance on policy. Guy ( Help!) 08:36, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
Where does this fall in the "legit" scale?
-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 00:36, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
Signature in the Cell ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Help fix this thing.
jps ( talk) 22:57, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
Could some experienced editor(s) have a look & assess claims/notability & suitability for deletion? Article moved from AFC into mainspace (had been previously declined) by an editor, Rcruzmedia, who was later blocked for promo editing & socking. Article claims it is an "body-mind-spirit therapy developed and clinically tested " by an Australian natural therapist, and can have rapid results by freeing up subtle energy blocks..or somesuch bollocks.Sources are offline print media, one of them references a Good Medicine Magazine which is also the name of a legit looking US mag but I do not think they are the same publication as the author of the reference article seems to contribute to Oz-based media on subjects such as chakradancing and also shows up in google searched to Australian Natural Health Magazine (currently offline). regards 94.195.46.224 ( talk) 01:19, 29 March 2014 (UTC)
K.H. Letters to C.W. Leadbeater and Man: whence, how and whither, a record of clairvoyant investigation. Full of plagiarism, perhaps some copyvio but hard to check. Poor articles and pov. Dougweller ( talk) 21:07, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
Doppelgänger ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) A remnant of Wikiproject paranormal, looks like its written by people who wanted to believe. The section "Notable documented doppelgänger experiences" is especially fun. A few possible merge targets. Also up for AfD at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Doppelgänger. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 12:55, 2 April 2014 (UTC)
This seems to be a new frontier in obfuscation.
Help would be appreciated.
jps ( talk) 18:37, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
Sigh. Your argumentative post is almost meaningless in its torturous and counterfactual hairsplitting. The determination of the age of the Earth is a measurement of the age of the Earth -- end of story. Meaningless distinctions between science and engineering in this context are just that. We aren't talking about the age of Hawaii here (which also can be measured). We're talking about the age of the Earth. Much like I'm not talking about the age of your fingernail when I'm talking about the age of you. Do try to keep up. jps ( talk) 01:38, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
I believe that it is time to stop responding to jps. Dealing with someone who thinks that scientific questions are resolved by insults and bullying is boring, and his block log makes it clear that he is ineducable. It is a shame that he decided to bring his circus to the creationism pages, because his tactics are pretty much the same ones used by a certain class of young-earth creationist. The creationism pages need calm, logical editors who stay focused on the science.
For my part I apologize for responding on his level, and have stricken those portions of my comments. -- Guy Macon ( talk) 07:15, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
creationists say X, which is wrong, and do Y, which is wrong. Science says X and Y are wrongis in any way better or "less obfuscated" than a simple statement along the lines of
creationists say X and do Y. Science says X and Y are wrong? This is essentially all this argument boils down to. GDallimore ( Talk) 14:03, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
Creationists believe X. This is in contradiction to the fact of Y.That's the most neutral way to write it. Not everything is a debate. jps ( talk) 14:31, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
creationists say X and do Y. Science says X and Y are wrongis giving WP:UNDUE weight to WP:FRINGE views as if religious nutjobs were equally prepared to discuss science as actual scientists.
Comment from an uninvolved editor All measurements occur within the context of models, and all measurements are at some level hypotheses. However, there's usual a per-domain understanding as to what is commonly known as a "measurement" versus calculation, modeling, or derivation. With the several caveats of ghits very much in mind, here's a few counts from google scholar:
Based on this, I prefer "calculate". Lesser Cartographies ( talk) 20:57, 5 April 2014 (UTC)
Two very bad articles that contained considerable copyvio (hers may still have some). They both need work. I was at first considering combining them but I'm not sure. A better choice might be to rename the Niscence article to Ann Ree Colton Foundation of Niscience, a redirect I first considered, because of sources such as [45] and much more importantly the book Under the Influence by John Goldhammer: [46] "From 1976 to 1990, I was a member of a religious group (the Ann Ree Colton Foundation of Niscience) that combined fundamentalist Christianity, Eastern mysticism, and New Age metaphysics. As a board member, lay minister, and volunteer, I did extensive pastoral counseling and researched the major world religions, philosophy, and psychology. I participated in and organized numerous conclaves, gave hundreds of public talks and conducted a lot of workshops and seminars across the U.S. I became utterly consumed by the Niscience System and its claim to be "the" highest truth and "the" spiritual path for our time." "I found it necessary to terminate my association with the group in 1990 due to their movement toward increasingly rigid and oppressive formats, rituals, and mind-control techniques--away from an emphasis on research and study of different religions and philosophies. By the way, leaving a group where I had invested so much of my life was incredibly difficult! I was feeling suicidal and lost. The organization had deteriorated into a destructive, full-blown religious cult". I've rewritten Niscience a bit, not enough and what I did do could use work. Dougweller ( talk) 16:03, 24 March 2014 (UTC)
A host of sock / meat puppets are appearing attempting to white-wash the fringe Young Earth Creationist claims. Additional eyes welcome. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 21:49, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
Erlendur Haraldsson (
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BLP of an Icelandic academic may be being used to promote fringy claims of reincarnation. I haven't delved too deeply into this article, but at first glance, the sourcing appears over-weighted towards
WP:FRINGE venues and the subject's own writings. The article knits together his attempts at "psychological explanations for children who speak of past-life experiences" published in a couple of mainstream journals with his credulous claims of psychic communications, micro-PK and "reincarnation cases" published in fringe journals such as Journal of the Society for Psychical Research, and Journal of Scientific Exploration as if they are one in the same. -
LuckyLouie (
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I added the BLP Primary tag and a comment on the talk page. The content doesn't belong in WP unless it is considered important in the field, this needs support and discussion in 3rd party independent reliable sources. - - MrBill3 ( talk) 18:46, 7 April 2014 (UTC)
Related article: Indriði Indriðason. Talk page discussion of problems with the article presenting the material too credulously, over-reliance on one source, etc. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 17:14, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
Terrible abuse of military/government power, conspiracy theory, or both? Whatever, the sourcing in the current article is decidedly iffy ... Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 19:01, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
John Hartnett (physicist) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
An interesting case where CV-style promotionalism seems to dominate over the actual notability of the person. Hartnett is not particularly known for his contributions outside of creationism, and yet his credentials are somewhat trumpeted in the lede. Not sure how to handle the situation, though. Help!
jps ( talk) 13:52, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Needs a cleanup. The section about the controversy with Randi particularly needs work. Dougweller ( talk) 13:12, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
Carl Sagan once offhandedly used the phrase "atmospheric beast" on an episode of Cosmos to muse about the possibility of life on gas giants like Jupiter. An obscure author named Trevor James Constable had some ideas about creatures living in Earth's atmosphere. Neither of these topics has attracted any in depth coverage by independent and reliable (read: non-UFO, non-Forteana) sources to warrant having their own articles. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 16:39, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
Is Narconon now NPOV and should the POV banner therefore be removed? Talk:Narconon#NPOV? 78.86.131.23 ( talk) 10:38, 8 April 2014 (UTC) Done thanks. Guy ( Help!) 20:38, 9 April 2014 (UTC)
Talk:Deepak Chopra#Chopra Media Representative
This section may be of interest to watchers of this noticeboard.
jps ( talk) 11:40, 10 April 2014 (UTC)
Baraminology ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
I've mentioned this article on this board before, but it really is absolutely atrocious. Much of it reads like Of Pandas and People. Can we try to align it with policies please? Can we try not to allow this kind of soapboxing?
jps ( talk) 14:34, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
Is this journal a generally reliable source for altmed topics, or does it fall afoul of WP:FRIND? The specific content I have in mind is in the Traditional Chinese Medicine article: "A 2012 review found curcumin has an important role in treating diabetes" sourced to PMC 3857752 (and since removed by another editor). I note this journal is not always positive toward altmed topics. Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 08:01, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
Isn't this the journal that published that terribly designed pyramid power study? And other assorted studies so fringe as to kill its credibility? Adam Cuerden ( talk) 16:47, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
Quite a few issues ... Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 06:12, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
Creationist cosmologies ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
Is this a violation of WP:SYNTH? Should this article be deleted?
jps ( talk) 16:36, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
99.22.189.113 ( talk · contribs · WHOIS) recently added a post to the talk page, claiming "Much of this article is out-of-date with more recent information about Xenu (which, btw, now is spelled Zenu with a backward "z"). It is now known that Xenu is the same being as Satan from the Hebrew scriptures. It won't be easy to verify this, but talk to User:average64 if more info is desired".
User:average64 ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) hasn't edited since 2013, and never the Xenu article. Can this information be verified? -- Auric talk 14:03, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
List of reportedly haunted locations ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) has some very dubious sources, and it is being used as a rationale to add Category:Reportedly haunted locations to locations in the list whose articles do not mention haunting, eg Giza Necropolis, Valley of the Kings and Great Wall of China. I've removed it from the first to and someone removed it from the 3rd but was reverted. Two issues really, one is cleaning up the list, the second adding categories about things that aren't mentioned in the article. Thanks. Dougweller ( talk) 10:47, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
The "haunted location" list articles are essentially an unsupervised dumping ground for rumors and bad sources. My favorite is the entry about stains on a telescope at University of Toledo. No one editor can keep up with the constant cleaning required, but maybe a Wikiproject could take these on? - LuckyLouie ( talk) 13:29, 3 April 2014 (UTC)
More fringe bollocks on imaginary voice-transmission weapons. Another contributor has now created an article entitled ' Voice-to-skull' - note the hyphens. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 17:56, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
Claimed spiritual/biological phenomena associated with near-death experiences. The article is quite a WP:BOMBARDMENT. Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 07:10, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
New Religion author active from the 1950s until his death in 1972. I'm finding some passing references but nothing that could be used as the basis of a biography; perhaps others might do better. Mangoe ( talk) 13:35, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Article using mostly fringe sources. Cannot find any reliable or skeptical/critical coverage of some of the claims. I would recommend an afd for the article or merging some of it into the telepathy article. Any thoughts? Goblin Face ( talk) 16:49, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
User:Spinningspark, insist on adding a fringe theory to
paleoclimatology (to the section of forcings). I previously removed the section because the topic of climate forcings in discussed at
Climate change, and because of the fringe theory, poor referencing (A lot of ISBN's) and false statements. In particular he wants a mention of a proposed connection between climate change and cosmic rays. The theory is from around the year 2000, and there are
31 cites on Google Scholar for the term "Cosmic rays climate". The main studies are made not by climate scientists and didn't went through proper peer-review. One study is no longer online. (The entry Ref link is broken).
I've tried to explain that cosmic rays are not a
climate proxy and that there is no credible link established between cosmic rays and climate change.
On the bottom line, i have nothing against a discussion of this theory, however i don't think it is within the scope of this article to do this.
Prokaryotes (
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Suggestion Improve the section already covering the topic, here. And adding a section @paleoclimatology, based on current content of "Controlling factors", in regards to forcings, and removing the arbitrary sub section time spans, and adding the related forcings (internal/external, which includes celestial drivers) and link to main page @climate change#causes. prokaryotes ( talk) 16:26, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Point of process, in the first diff provided by Spinningspark I thought much of the material had nothing to do with cosmic (comic?) rays. So right off the bat, deleting other stuff with a cosmic ray complaint raises red flags. Suggest Prok. do a new deletion removing just the objectionable cosmic rays material, and then self revert. That would not be edit warring (since he would self revert the demo edit) but it would provide an easy way to communicate the narrow scope of the precise text that is at issue in this thread. NewsAndEventsGuy ( talk) 16:57, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Some discussion at Eurythmy over how medical claims made for it should be included, and on whether/how an OUP published book on Integrative Oncology is usable. More eyes would be welcome. Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 12:28, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
Norway's former prime minister. There is a discussion on the talk page regarding to weather the Prime Minister said anything against Israel or its just a POV, as is stated by @ Huldra: and @ Bjerrebæk:. Me and @ Yambaram: have agreed that at least the JPost article is a legit reason to include such content, besides JPost, there were refs from Arutz Sheva and FrontPage Magazine, so it is not a POV by all means. I would like an uninvolved admin to intervene.-- Mishae ( talk) 19:28, 13 April 2014 (UTC)
Reshuffling of a previously deleted article. Sensational claims with no sources. - LuckyLouie ( talk) 18:40, 15 April 2014 (UTC)
Active edit war with two spa's that don't seem to understand WP:NPOV, consensus, general editing policies and how to count (much less WP:FRINGE and WP:MEDRS. Subject of 3RR noticeboard report. - - MrBill3 ( talk) 08:14, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
Hi folks,
TL;DR: If you're dealing with a newbie editor who has started off in a WP:FRINGE area and is floundering, and if you don't have the time/patience/inclination to shepherd the editor to the point where they're able to make a positive contribution, then I'd be willing to help with a bit of mentoring.
Long version: We get lots of newbie WP:SPAs in WP:FRINGE areas. Most of them aren't able and/or willing to make a useful contribution. A few of them (and it may be a very small minority) might develop into valued editors given a bit of mentoring; more specifically, mentoring that steers them out of WP:FRINGE areas until they have a firmer grasp of WP:RS and how it gets applied. Trying to learn this while one's edits are getting reverted is difficult. Trying to learn this while stewing over a block just doesn't happen. If you're working with a new, enthusiastic editor who is making new-enthusiastic-editor mistakes, and you think that editor might benefit from a third-party explaining what the mistakes are before the situation devolves to edit wars and blocks, I'm happy to assist. I will not be making any edits to the articles under discussion, and will be encouraging the newbie to put off editing those articles until they've gained experience elsewhere.
I expect the success rate to be low (where success is measured as positive, sustained contribution, whether in WP:FRINGE articles, others, or both). That's fine. If the rate is zero, then I'll eventually decide to focus my efforts elsewhere. Suggestions and comments are welcome.
Lesser Cartographies ( talk) 16:29, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
Miraculous cures for cancer are mentioned, and the founder claims for AIDS and schizophrenia too. I'm inclined to think at least the entire "Medical studies" section here can be deleted, and some of the other wild claims need mainstream context. This type of yoga does not seem to have got much skeptical coverage though ... Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 13:35, 31 March 2014 (UTC)
Multiple explanations of policy and specific examples have been provided on the talk page. IDHT seems to be happening. A good fringe editor might want to step in and cut the promotional content and statements presented without balance and proper attribution. - - MrBill3 ( talk) 16:01, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia articles seem very keen on the theory that Dhul-Qarnayn refers to Cyrus the Great. It is currently given most weight in Cyrus the Great in the Quran and Dhul-Qarnayn, where at the latter it says, "In modern scholarship the character is identified as Cyrus the Great." And it cites only Volume 4 of Alameh Tehrani's Eschatology in Arabic: [48]. I can only read a machine translation of this, but his argument at times seems to depend on a premise of Quranic inerrantism, which does not seem like it would be afforded much weight within mainstream scholarship. I can't find anyone who cites Tehrani on this issue. When I confer with the mainstream texts in English, they don't even mention this theory, and rather affirm that the identification with Alexander is the standard view: The Blackwell Companion to the Qur'ān says: "Dhū'l-Qarnayn, an epithet usually assigned to Alexander the Great but also attributed to Moses by Muslim as well as Jewish and Christian exegetes." (Wheeler, p. 260). The Brill Encyclopedia of Islam, second edition says "It is generally agreed both by Muslim commentators and modern occidental scholars that D̲h̲u ’l-Ḳarnayn, “the two-horned”, in Sūra XVIII, 83/82-98 is to be identified with Alexander the Great." (Watt, "al-Iskandar"). The third edition says "Dhū al-Qarnayn (usually identified with Alexander the Great)" (Cook, "Gog and Magog"). The Brill Encyclopedia of the Qurʾān says "Traditional and modern scholars have identified the figure the Qurʾān refers to as the Possessor of the Two Horns (Dhū l-Qarnayn, q 18:83, 86, 94) as Alexander the Great (al-Iskandar in Arabic)." (Renard, "Alexander") What's the deal here? Is this a fringe theory being promoted? -- Atethnekos ( Discussion, Contributions) 20:38, 16 April 2014 (UTC)
The article isn't in great shape, but there's one particularly problematic bit; Dulles' supposed ties to Nazi Germany. Frankly I'm inclined to just throw it out, but there does seem to be a source for it and I'm not really familiar with policy in this area. The claims don't seem to have garnered any maintstream attention. Suggestions? -- RaiderAspect ( talk) 06:48, 17 April 2014 (UTC)
A relatively new user, BernardZ, has taken to making a number of sweeping claims based on newly-published research and reports that seem unsupported by any other academic (or otherwise) sources.
The extra commentary added to Sunstone (medieval) with this edit (note additional personal theorising in the edit summary) and to Agriculture with this edit (again with personal theorising) are both based on extracts from recently-published Royal Society papers. Grammatical and WP:MOS errors and personal theories aside, are these strong enough sources to justify the insertion of significant new material into articles?
A half-way-point would be to add the material with an attribution to the publishers, making it clear that it is their theory, it's new and untested and stand-alone by comparison to other academia.
I removed both but was accused of "wikihounding" (having also removed several instances of completely unsourced original research from the same editor). Some extra eyes/advice from FRINGE/N regulars would be appreciated. Stalwart 111 02:24, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
Thinking there's a notability issue here ... Alexbrn talk| contribs| COI 04:32, 19 April 2014 (UTC)
Fringe article with more stuff added today. I know the editor added copyvio to another article ( Philosophy and Spiritualism of Sri Aurobindo) but I can't tell if the material added to this article is copyvio from [50] as the Internet archive doesn't have an earlier version with the same text, but I suspect it is. Dougweller ( talk) 10:19, 18 April 2014 (UTC)