This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Florida template. |
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Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 91 days |
Florida Template‑class | |||||||
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Miami Template‑class | |||||||
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I was looking at the template, and I noticed an obscene amount of CDP's listed here, such as Brandon, Town 'n' Country, and Palm Harbor. Since CDP's are not cities in their own right (they rely on the county for support, such as police, fire, legislation, etc), should they be grouped with the "Largest Cities"? Using {{ Georgia}} for an example, Johns Creek, Georgia wasn't added until it was incorporated in mid-2006, even though it was larger than Marietta. I have to agree with that standpoint, but before I go and completely destroy the template, I want to get a consensus.
On that same note, I was thinking of, instead of a minimum population, why not have only the top 10 or top 20 cities? That way, the list is not only concise, but also not constantly expanding as Florida's cities get larger and larger; if people want to see more, I could create a supplement to the List of cities in Florida that contains population listings as well that we can link to this. Eagles Fan In Tampa 18:58, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Should there be a link to education in Florida in the template? 70.127.186.138 00:52, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
15-Dec-2007: I have confirmed that the Template:Florida has been transcluded into 806 pages, and so adds 806 index-links to each wikilinked word in the nav-box. Every region, county, and major town in Florida has been linked to over 806 articles, providing a total of over 96,000 links:
The 96,000 links are not yet unmanageable, but the problem is growing as more articles are linked by the nav-box Template:Florida. Eventually, solutions must be found to avoid the growing nav-box index crisis, as discussed below. - Wikid77 ( talk) 10:19, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
15-Dec-2007: As the nav-box Template:Florida continues to be expanded with more cities or topics, and transcluded into more articles, the Wikipedia indexing is becoming a so-called "N-squared problem" or more accurately an "NxM (N-by-M) problem": when 2,500 articles use a nav-box having 200 wikilinks, the overall effect generates 500,000 entries into the Wikipedia index-file database: the seemingly small nav-box (with just 200 county names, cities and topics) snowballs into a massive half-million entries in the Wikipedia link-files database.
The problem is encouraged because some people treat nav-box templates as being shared subroutines or common menus, but they are not: in MediaWiki language 1.6, nav-box templates are actually copied as multiple instances for each page when used, rather than implemented as a shared common routine. If just 10 pages use a nav-box linking 150 cities/counties, that's 1,500 index entries, and the current result has become the 96,700+ index entries already created by Template:Florida. Solutions should be sought to avoid the growing nav-box index crisis, as discussed below. - Wikid77 ( talk) 10:19, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
15-Dec-2007: An easy solution is to split a nav-box into multiple smaller nav-boxes, only used on pages most likely to need a nav-box, rather than across several hundred articles. - Wikid77 ( talk)
15-Dec-2007: As a very simple solution to nav-box overlinking, the Template:Texas does not contain box links to the 254 counties in Texas (most of any state); instead, Template:Texas merely links the full-length counties article by "See: List of Texas counties". Although Template:Texas gives a simple solution reducing the nav-box crisis, it has the drawback of linking a very long article to provide county-name links, rather than a short nav-box template of county-names. Instead, I suggest creating a condensed state-counties template for only counties of a state, similar to Template:Florida, but with only box links to county-names, avoiding a full-length article listing descriptions of all counties. Then, that kind of state-counties template (" Template:Florida_counties") would only be transcluded into a few hundred articles about counties, rather than several hundred. Meanwhile, each state-template could be substantially shortened (by using "See: List of Florida counties" to reduce overall wikilinks by 53,000 or so), until a condensed state-counties template has been developed and verified. Long term, the general solution would be multiple smaller templates:
Other templates could be added for future subjects. - Wikid77 ( talk) 19:12, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Horologium. Let's wait for a general consensus on what should be done for templates for all states before making changes here. -- Donald Albury 22:58, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
At least one county in Vermont (sic!) has deleted the state template in all towns and villages and substituted a county template only. So a reader arriving there would have to go up to the county article to get to the Vermont template. I haven't seen anyone commenting on this yet. It does reduce bottom clutter a lot. I doubt they had a "link problem" to start with! :) Student7 ( talk) 04:05, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
16-Dec-2007: It seems possible to pass a new parameter ("no_counties") to a state template to provide an easy way to suppress county-name links. The concept requires more testing, to ensure that county-name links coded in a template only generate index entries when displayed, not simply by being hidden somewhere inside a template. The strategy would be, typically, to hide county names by default (as "no_counties"), but allow county articles to pass parameter "counties""show_counties" to force display (and wiki-indexing) of the county names, only in those county articles, not indexing the other 50,000 times when articles don't need county names linked. When county names are omitted from the box links, users can then view
Template:Florida_counties, as a separate nav-article (generating only 67 county index entries, not 50,000). At that point, Template:Florida_counties would be a user-requested display. Again, the indexing must be confirmed first: I have already confirmed that wikilinks in a "<noinclude>" section of a template are being indexed into the Wikipedia link database.
Wikid77 (
talk) 11:54, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
What is the criteria of "Major hurricanes"? Is it about the hurricanes that made landfall in Florida with C3 intensity or above? If yes, then it should follows List of Florida hurricanes#Florida major hurricanes and remove Dorian as it never made landfall in Florida. 116.49.148.156 ( talk) 02:30, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template. It is worthwhile proposing the suggested change with a post at
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Florida.
Goldsztajn (
talk) 09:49, 8 October 2020 (UTC)This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Florida template. |
|
Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 91 days |
Florida Template‑class | |||||||
|
Miami Template‑class | |||||||
|
I was looking at the template, and I noticed an obscene amount of CDP's listed here, such as Brandon, Town 'n' Country, and Palm Harbor. Since CDP's are not cities in their own right (they rely on the county for support, such as police, fire, legislation, etc), should they be grouped with the "Largest Cities"? Using {{ Georgia}} for an example, Johns Creek, Georgia wasn't added until it was incorporated in mid-2006, even though it was larger than Marietta. I have to agree with that standpoint, but before I go and completely destroy the template, I want to get a consensus.
On that same note, I was thinking of, instead of a minimum population, why not have only the top 10 or top 20 cities? That way, the list is not only concise, but also not constantly expanding as Florida's cities get larger and larger; if people want to see more, I could create a supplement to the List of cities in Florida that contains population listings as well that we can link to this. Eagles Fan In Tampa 18:58, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
Should there be a link to education in Florida in the template? 70.127.186.138 00:52, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
15-Dec-2007: I have confirmed that the Template:Florida has been transcluded into 806 pages, and so adds 806 index-links to each wikilinked word in the nav-box. Every region, county, and major town in Florida has been linked to over 806 articles, providing a total of over 96,000 links:
The 96,000 links are not yet unmanageable, but the problem is growing as more articles are linked by the nav-box Template:Florida. Eventually, solutions must be found to avoid the growing nav-box index crisis, as discussed below. - Wikid77 ( talk) 10:19, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
15-Dec-2007: As the nav-box Template:Florida continues to be expanded with more cities or topics, and transcluded into more articles, the Wikipedia indexing is becoming a so-called "N-squared problem" or more accurately an "NxM (N-by-M) problem": when 2,500 articles use a nav-box having 200 wikilinks, the overall effect generates 500,000 entries into the Wikipedia index-file database: the seemingly small nav-box (with just 200 county names, cities and topics) snowballs into a massive half-million entries in the Wikipedia link-files database.
The problem is encouraged because some people treat nav-box templates as being shared subroutines or common menus, but they are not: in MediaWiki language 1.6, nav-box templates are actually copied as multiple instances for each page when used, rather than implemented as a shared common routine. If just 10 pages use a nav-box linking 150 cities/counties, that's 1,500 index entries, and the current result has become the 96,700+ index entries already created by Template:Florida. Solutions should be sought to avoid the growing nav-box index crisis, as discussed below. - Wikid77 ( talk) 10:19, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
15-Dec-2007: An easy solution is to split a nav-box into multiple smaller nav-boxes, only used on pages most likely to need a nav-box, rather than across several hundred articles. - Wikid77 ( talk)
15-Dec-2007: As a very simple solution to nav-box overlinking, the Template:Texas does not contain box links to the 254 counties in Texas (most of any state); instead, Template:Texas merely links the full-length counties article by "See: List of Texas counties". Although Template:Texas gives a simple solution reducing the nav-box crisis, it has the drawback of linking a very long article to provide county-name links, rather than a short nav-box template of county-names. Instead, I suggest creating a condensed state-counties template for only counties of a state, similar to Template:Florida, but with only box links to county-names, avoiding a full-length article listing descriptions of all counties. Then, that kind of state-counties template (" Template:Florida_counties") would only be transcluded into a few hundred articles about counties, rather than several hundred. Meanwhile, each state-template could be substantially shortened (by using "See: List of Florida counties" to reduce overall wikilinks by 53,000 or so), until a condensed state-counties template has been developed and verified. Long term, the general solution would be multiple smaller templates:
Other templates could be added for future subjects. - Wikid77 ( talk) 19:12, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Horologium. Let's wait for a general consensus on what should be done for templates for all states before making changes here. -- Donald Albury 22:58, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
At least one county in Vermont (sic!) has deleted the state template in all towns and villages and substituted a county template only. So a reader arriving there would have to go up to the county article to get to the Vermont template. I haven't seen anyone commenting on this yet. It does reduce bottom clutter a lot. I doubt they had a "link problem" to start with! :) Student7 ( talk) 04:05, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
16-Dec-2007: It seems possible to pass a new parameter ("no_counties") to a state template to provide an easy way to suppress county-name links. The concept requires more testing, to ensure that county-name links coded in a template only generate index entries when displayed, not simply by being hidden somewhere inside a template. The strategy would be, typically, to hide county names by default (as "no_counties"), but allow county articles to pass parameter "counties""show_counties" to force display (and wiki-indexing) of the county names, only in those county articles, not indexing the other 50,000 times when articles don't need county names linked. When county names are omitted from the box links, users can then view
Template:Florida_counties, as a separate nav-article (generating only 67 county index entries, not 50,000). At that point, Template:Florida_counties would be a user-requested display. Again, the indexing must be confirmed first: I have already confirmed that wikilinks in a "<noinclude>" section of a template are being indexed into the Wikipedia link database.
Wikid77 (
talk) 11:54, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
What is the criteria of "Major hurricanes"? Is it about the hurricanes that made landfall in Florida with C3 intensity or above? If yes, then it should follows List of Florida hurricanes#Florida major hurricanes and remove Dorian as it never made landfall in Florida. 116.49.148.156 ( talk) 02:30, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template. It is worthwhile proposing the suggested change with a post at
Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Florida.
Goldsztajn (
talk) 09:49, 8 October 2020 (UTC)