This template does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Archive of merged Anglophone states template discussion page |
This template was nominated for merging with Template:Anglophone states on 9 October 2008. The result of the discussion was merge. |
Text and/or other creative content from Template:Anglophone states was copied or moved into Template:English official language clickable map with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted so long as the latter page exists. |
Singapore should be listed as english as its main language
Bhutan and the Maldives should probably not be listed. -- dab (𒁳) 09:54, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
English is not an official language in Quebec, although it is an official language nationwide in Canada. Turns out, the only bilingual province in Canada is New Brunswick. KriZe ♠♦♣♥ 16:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
For the five-hundred-millionth time... QUEBEC IS NOT A COUNTRY!!! Please make it dark blue with the rest of Canada. Roger ( talk) 15:59, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
Québec is not a country, and language is not a federal jurisdiction. God forbid anyone should get the impression that ALL of Canada is perfectly homogenous.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.203.17.155 ( talk) 18:46, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
Can someone who knows how change the clickable area over the Solomon Islands to not point to New Guinea, as it is a separate country! Thankyou Graeme Bartlett ( talk) 02:38, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
As United States English redirects to American English, I've changed the link to American English. – Marco 79 14:15, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
This template gives a helpful and useful visual representation of the Anglosphere, but perhaps it's description presents the Angloshere in terms which are too linguistically based - ie the Anglosphere seems to be more a matter of socio-cultural values, and politico-legal ideas than language. It does not seem that the Anglosphere is the same thing as the Anglophone world, although there is a lot of overlap. Arcan ( talk) 11:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't South Africa be light blue? While it certainly has a higher percentage of its population as native English speakers than, say, India, that percentage is still minority by a substantial amount. -- Jfruh ( talk) 20:15, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
There is an error in this template. English language is not an official language at all of Quebec. It is spoken by some people (most of the time in Montreal) but is not official (see Charter of the French Language).
“ | French language is the only official language of Quebec. | ” |
— Jimmy Lavoie × Vive le Québec! talk 18:25, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
Is there a reason there is no link to Scottish English while the template links to Mid-Ulster English? The political status of both areas are practically identical, and British English is the written variety in both while being the spoken variety in neither. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk) 11:27, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
The link over Malaysia seems to be to "languages of Uganda"? Singaporean English should be listed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.32.103.197 ( talk) 23:15, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Singapore has a "predominantly English-speaking society". its main language is english [1] 129.100.195.138 ( talk) 22:43, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Denmark, and most likely other nations, English is the predominant second language spoken by a majority of people. It should be added to the map, and in fact the map should be updated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.236.180.8 ( talk) 22:12, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
Note. This request was brought over from
the archived talk page.
—
.`^) Paine Ellsworth
diss`cuss (^`. 12:55, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi, please provide citations for any included countries and not make assumptions which is very misleading and unencyclopedic. -- Bardcom ( talk) 20:10, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
It would be a stretch to have it in dark blue, IMO Nicholas.tan ( talk) 21:09, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
(out). Okay,
that's done, along with a new
sandbox and a new
testcases page. The sky's the limit?
—
.`^) Paine Ellsworth
diss`cuss (^`. 04:02, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
These two statements are not logically mutually exclusive: "Dark blue: Countries and territories where English is spoken natively by a significant population." "Light blue: Countries where English is an official language but not widely spoken."
South Africa is an excellent example of a country where both statements can be argued to be true depending on how one defines some of the key phrases.
The phrase "a significant population" needs a proper numeric definition. I think practically everyone would agree that 50% is "significant", but how many would accept 25% as the cut-off, or how about 10% or even 5%? Deciding on a number will instantly solve many disagreements.
The phrase "widely spoken" is similarly problematic. Does it apply to first language speakers only? If it is taken to include second language speakers the "not mutually exclusive" problem comes up. How many countries even have statistics for second language use? South Africa does not.
There are countries where English is official but have practically zero native speakers. Depending on the numeric definition of "significant" there could also be countries where "English is spoken natively by a significant population" but it is not an official language.
Returning to the example of South Africa - the following statements are all true: English is an official language. English is the native language of only a small minority (under 10%). English is widely understood and used as a second language. So what colour should SA be on the map?
Roger ( talk) 14:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
Fiji is labelled as "not widely spoken". When I was there in the 1980s, everybody on Viti Levu anyway spoke English, shopkeepers, cart vendors, bus drivers, panhandlers. At this point, I don't recall anyone who did not speak English.
Varlaam (
talk) 06:06, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Malaysia is highlighted as light blue on the map, but English is not an Official language here. However it is correctly not listed beneath the map. 194.80.106.135 ( talk) 17:48, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
English is not the official language of the USA. The US doesn't have an official language. 68.41.208.250 ( talk) 04:24, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
English is an official language of Somaliland, can it please be included in the map. Outback the koala ( talk) 20:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
This has been removed here by User:Dodger67 with the explanation that "it's not a UN recognised country" . This is not a valid argument as on wikipedia we do not take sides in international conflict between states and there is a long consensus to list all states on the List of states with limited recognition along with all other states. Given it's status and User:Doger67's objection to this, maybe we can put a footnote in or something? Would that be alright? Outback the koala ( talk) 21:35, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
English is one of the three official languages of Seychelles, so it should be included here in the "Countries and territories where English is an official language, but not the majority language" list.
Also, shouldn't the Pitcairn Islands be in the same list as Norfolk Island? They both have English as an official language and both speak the same English-based creole language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.12.139.151 ( talk) 04:48, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
I moved Belize from the list of "official" English countries to the list of "majority" English countries. Arguably, none of the Caribbean countries where an English based Creole is the majority language should be treated as English majority countries. But drawing the line between Creole and "standard" English can be difficult, and every other Caribbean country with an English based Creole was treated as "majority". I'm not sure how to fix the map color for Belize, and I am not at all opposed to moving all the other countries ( Guyana, Jamaica, various states in the Lesser Antilles) to the "official" list. It might be better to treat Creole majority countries as separate category, however. There are also countries in Melanesia ( Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu, Solomon Islands) where an English based creole is more widely spoken than "standard" English and has official status, but the creole is still not a majority language. Plantdrew ( talk) 20:46, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Both are listed under the map in the Official language section, but are not marked in light blue! best, Sunil060902 ( talk) 21:22, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
This needs a bit of cleanup. I added quite a number of articles to this template, but this template is so complicated that I was barely able to figure out how to do it. In the process I introduced some formating errors and oddities in the code, nothing urgent or too serous, but could someone who's more experienced with templates then I am clean this up please. Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 13:23, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
There are several countries where the most spoken language is an English-based creole and the official language is English. Said creoles are consistently described as separate languages in the literature on the subject. Thus I suggest that these countries be coloured light blue rather than dark blue. Munci ( talk) 04:17, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
Sorry I missed your reply last week. - I have over 18,000 items in my watchlist! I'm done answering point by point, as we're just going in circles. English is spoken in these countries by most of the population, so they are English-speaking, therefore the map is correct, and the color don't need to be changed. They aren't included here solely because they speak an English-based Creole, or Suriname would be blue. (It isn't included, as English isn't a majority language there, TMK, and Dutch is the official language.) If you need sources as to the degree of diglossia present in each country to support the map, that can probably be done, but that's beyond my abilities or desires to attempt. I'll oppose changing the map, but if your want to do it anyway without other editors supporting it, go ahead. I'll take whatever actions per WP policy necessary show it's a non-consensus change and get it reverted. - BilCat ( talk) 21:17, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
This template does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Archive of merged Anglophone states template discussion page |
This template was nominated for merging with Template:Anglophone states on 9 October 2008. The result of the discussion was merge. |
Text and/or other creative content from Template:Anglophone states was copied or moved into Template:English official language clickable map with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted so long as the latter page exists. |
Singapore should be listed as english as its main language
Bhutan and the Maldives should probably not be listed. -- dab (𒁳) 09:54, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
English is not an official language in Quebec, although it is an official language nationwide in Canada. Turns out, the only bilingual province in Canada is New Brunswick. KriZe ♠♦♣♥ 16:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
For the five-hundred-millionth time... QUEBEC IS NOT A COUNTRY!!! Please make it dark blue with the rest of Canada. Roger ( talk) 15:59, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
Québec is not a country, and language is not a federal jurisdiction. God forbid anyone should get the impression that ALL of Canada is perfectly homogenous.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.203.17.155 ( talk) 18:46, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
Can someone who knows how change the clickable area over the Solomon Islands to not point to New Guinea, as it is a separate country! Thankyou Graeme Bartlett ( talk) 02:38, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
As United States English redirects to American English, I've changed the link to American English. – Marco 79 14:15, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
This template gives a helpful and useful visual representation of the Anglosphere, but perhaps it's description presents the Angloshere in terms which are too linguistically based - ie the Anglosphere seems to be more a matter of socio-cultural values, and politico-legal ideas than language. It does not seem that the Anglosphere is the same thing as the Anglophone world, although there is a lot of overlap. Arcan ( talk) 11:07, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't South Africa be light blue? While it certainly has a higher percentage of its population as native English speakers than, say, India, that percentage is still minority by a substantial amount. -- Jfruh ( talk) 20:15, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
There is an error in this template. English language is not an official language at all of Quebec. It is spoken by some people (most of the time in Montreal) but is not official (see Charter of the French Language).
“ | French language is the only official language of Quebec. | ” |
— Jimmy Lavoie × Vive le Québec! talk 18:25, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
Is there a reason there is no link to Scottish English while the template links to Mid-Ulster English? The political status of both areas are practically identical, and British English is the written variety in both while being the spoken variety in neither. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk) 11:27, 18 December 2008 (UTC)
The link over Malaysia seems to be to "languages of Uganda"? Singaporean English should be listed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.32.103.197 ( talk) 23:15, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Singapore has a "predominantly English-speaking society". its main language is english [1] 129.100.195.138 ( talk) 22:43, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
Denmark, and most likely other nations, English is the predominant second language spoken by a majority of people. It should be added to the map, and in fact the map should be updated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.236.180.8 ( talk) 22:12, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
Note. This request was brought over from
the archived talk page.
—
.`^) Paine Ellsworth
diss`cuss (^`. 12:55, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi, please provide citations for any included countries and not make assumptions which is very misleading and unencyclopedic. -- Bardcom ( talk) 20:10, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
It would be a stretch to have it in dark blue, IMO Nicholas.tan ( talk) 21:09, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
(out). Okay,
that's done, along with a new
sandbox and a new
testcases page. The sky's the limit?
—
.`^) Paine Ellsworth
diss`cuss (^`. 04:02, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
These two statements are not logically mutually exclusive: "Dark blue: Countries and territories where English is spoken natively by a significant population." "Light blue: Countries where English is an official language but not widely spoken."
South Africa is an excellent example of a country where both statements can be argued to be true depending on how one defines some of the key phrases.
The phrase "a significant population" needs a proper numeric definition. I think practically everyone would agree that 50% is "significant", but how many would accept 25% as the cut-off, or how about 10% or even 5%? Deciding on a number will instantly solve many disagreements.
The phrase "widely spoken" is similarly problematic. Does it apply to first language speakers only? If it is taken to include second language speakers the "not mutually exclusive" problem comes up. How many countries even have statistics for second language use? South Africa does not.
There are countries where English is official but have practically zero native speakers. Depending on the numeric definition of "significant" there could also be countries where "English is spoken natively by a significant population" but it is not an official language.
Returning to the example of South Africa - the following statements are all true: English is an official language. English is the native language of only a small minority (under 10%). English is widely understood and used as a second language. So what colour should SA be on the map?
Roger ( talk) 14:04, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
Fiji is labelled as "not widely spoken". When I was there in the 1980s, everybody on Viti Levu anyway spoke English, shopkeepers, cart vendors, bus drivers, panhandlers. At this point, I don't recall anyone who did not speak English.
Varlaam (
talk) 06:06, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
Malaysia is highlighted as light blue on the map, but English is not an Official language here. However it is correctly not listed beneath the map. 194.80.106.135 ( talk) 17:48, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
English is not the official language of the USA. The US doesn't have an official language. 68.41.208.250 ( talk) 04:24, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
English is an official language of Somaliland, can it please be included in the map. Outback the koala ( talk) 20:40, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
This has been removed here by User:Dodger67 with the explanation that "it's not a UN recognised country" . This is not a valid argument as on wikipedia we do not take sides in international conflict between states and there is a long consensus to list all states on the List of states with limited recognition along with all other states. Given it's status and User:Doger67's objection to this, maybe we can put a footnote in or something? Would that be alright? Outback the koala ( talk) 21:35, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
English is one of the three official languages of Seychelles, so it should be included here in the "Countries and territories where English is an official language, but not the majority language" list.
Also, shouldn't the Pitcairn Islands be in the same list as Norfolk Island? They both have English as an official language and both speak the same English-based creole language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.12.139.151 ( talk) 04:48, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
I moved Belize from the list of "official" English countries to the list of "majority" English countries. Arguably, none of the Caribbean countries where an English based Creole is the majority language should be treated as English majority countries. But drawing the line between Creole and "standard" English can be difficult, and every other Caribbean country with an English based Creole was treated as "majority". I'm not sure how to fix the map color for Belize, and I am not at all opposed to moving all the other countries ( Guyana, Jamaica, various states in the Lesser Antilles) to the "official" list. It might be better to treat Creole majority countries as separate category, however. There are also countries in Melanesia ( Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu, Solomon Islands) where an English based creole is more widely spoken than "standard" English and has official status, but the creole is still not a majority language. Plantdrew ( talk) 20:46, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Both are listed under the map in the Official language section, but are not marked in light blue! best, Sunil060902 ( talk) 21:22, 24 November 2012 (UTC)
This needs a bit of cleanup. I added quite a number of articles to this template, but this template is so complicated that I was barely able to figure out how to do it. In the process I introduced some formating errors and oddities in the code, nothing urgent or too serous, but could someone who's more experienced with templates then I am clean this up please. Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 13:23, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
There are several countries where the most spoken language is an English-based creole and the official language is English. Said creoles are consistently described as separate languages in the literature on the subject. Thus I suggest that these countries be coloured light blue rather than dark blue. Munci ( talk) 04:17, 3 March 2016 (UTC)
Sorry I missed your reply last week. - I have over 18,000 items in my watchlist! I'm done answering point by point, as we're just going in circles. English is spoken in these countries by most of the population, so they are English-speaking, therefore the map is correct, and the color don't need to be changed. They aren't included here solely because they speak an English-based Creole, or Suriname would be blue. (It isn't included, as English isn't a majority language there, TMK, and Dutch is the official language.) If you need sources as to the degree of diglossia present in each country to support the map, that can probably be done, but that's beyond my abilities or desires to attempt. I'll oppose changing the map, but if your want to do it anyway without other editors supporting it, go ahead. I'll take whatever actions per WP policy necessary show it's a non-consensus change and get it reverted. - BilCat ( talk) 21:17, 19 May 2016 (UTC)