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Zebulon Vance was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||
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Current status: Former good article nominee |
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Regarding the move of this page, Zeb Vance (46%), Z. B. Vance (46%), and Zebulon B. Vance (13%) are the only iterations of Vance's name that constitute over 5% of references to him on newspapers.com. Per WP:INITS, a written-out name is preferable to simply initials if the written-out version is used by RS. Star Garnet ( talk) 22:14, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Move to Zebulon Vance. Participants in this discussion agree the previous move was not supported by any prior measurement of page consensus. Further, this brief discussion seems to indicate the subject's middle name is superfluous for disambiguation purposes; this simpler article title best meets both CONCISE and COMMONNAME. BusterD ( talk) 13:55, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
Zeb Vance → Zebulon Baird Vance – Under discussion is the restoration of this article to its former name. The article was moved to Vance's nickname of "Zeb" without prior discussion and based on data from historical newspapers which traditionally shortened names to save space. Zebulon is the name used in his publications, his obituary in the New York Times, on numerous monuments, and in places and institutions named after him. Modern historians refer to him as Zebulan, as does the State of North Carolina which manages his birthplace as an historic site. Rublamb ( talk) 22:51, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
Again this ridiculous newspeak aiming to somehow show extra righteousness. The family didn't 'enslave people', they bought slaves. Whoever first violently captured the individuals or their ancestors and started treating them as slaves was the one who enslaved them. That was most likely some African chieftain from a rival tribe. 'Enslaving people' would mean something like raiding people's homes and abducting them (or, in many pre-modern jurisdictions, legally acquiring ownership of their persons in compensation for forfeited loans given to them). That's not what the Vances did. It is not the case that every person who acquires an already enslaved person 'enslaves them' again. I am talking about the established distinctions and definitions that have been used for millennia, since the times of Antiquity and the Middle Ages, when enslaving people was standard practice in Europe and the Near East (quite irrespective of the victims' race), and people did feel the need for clear language to refer to it. But no, this has to be ignored. 'I'm so brave, radical and controversial as to oppose slavery! You others may technically oppose slavery, too, but I really oppose slavery, in the right way, including by using non-standard and confusing definitions of words!' Reminds me of how the word 'rape', which used to mean having sex with a person clearly against their will, by using force, is now increasingly used solely based on the age of the person or the degree of power the other person had over them. 62.73.69.121 ( talk) 18:05, 2 January 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Zebulon Vance article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
Zebulon Vance was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Former good article nominee |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Regarding the move of this page, Zeb Vance (46%), Z. B. Vance (46%), and Zebulon B. Vance (13%) are the only iterations of Vance's name that constitute over 5% of references to him on newspapers.com. Per WP:INITS, a written-out name is preferable to simply initials if the written-out version is used by RS. Star Garnet ( talk) 22:14, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Move to Zebulon Vance. Participants in this discussion agree the previous move was not supported by any prior measurement of page consensus. Further, this brief discussion seems to indicate the subject's middle name is superfluous for disambiguation purposes; this simpler article title best meets both CONCISE and COMMONNAME. BusterD ( talk) 13:55, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
Zeb Vance → Zebulon Baird Vance – Under discussion is the restoration of this article to its former name. The article was moved to Vance's nickname of "Zeb" without prior discussion and based on data from historical newspapers which traditionally shortened names to save space. Zebulon is the name used in his publications, his obituary in the New York Times, on numerous monuments, and in places and institutions named after him. Modern historians refer to him as Zebulan, as does the State of North Carolina which manages his birthplace as an historic site. Rublamb ( talk) 22:51, 1 July 2023 (UTC)
Again this ridiculous newspeak aiming to somehow show extra righteousness. The family didn't 'enslave people', they bought slaves. Whoever first violently captured the individuals or their ancestors and started treating them as slaves was the one who enslaved them. That was most likely some African chieftain from a rival tribe. 'Enslaving people' would mean something like raiding people's homes and abducting them (or, in many pre-modern jurisdictions, legally acquiring ownership of their persons in compensation for forfeited loans given to them). That's not what the Vances did. It is not the case that every person who acquires an already enslaved person 'enslaves them' again. I am talking about the established distinctions and definitions that have been used for millennia, since the times of Antiquity and the Middle Ages, when enslaving people was standard practice in Europe and the Near East (quite irrespective of the victims' race), and people did feel the need for clear language to refer to it. But no, this has to be ignored. 'I'm so brave, radical and controversial as to oppose slavery! You others may technically oppose slavery, too, but I really oppose slavery, in the right way, including by using non-standard and confusing definitions of words!' Reminds me of how the word 'rape', which used to mean having sex with a person clearly against their will, by using force, is now increasingly used solely based on the age of the person or the degree of power the other person had over them. 62.73.69.121 ( talk) 18:05, 2 January 2024 (UTC)