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There are a couple of comments that need to be addressed regarding my corrections and why they need to stop being reversed by the "editors."
1.) One can dispute whether or not the teachings of Hobart Freeman were anointed or not. That depends on whether one was set free by the word of God that was preached there. Did the man preach the word of God? Many seem to think that it was his "opinions" or "his twist of scripture" that he preached. But many have been set free from bondages by the word of God though this man of God. The anointing breaks the yoke of bondage and so the anointing is on the word. Hobart Freeman was just a vessel used by God, just like any other minister of the gospel. Since he preached the word and that is all you get on the tapes, the tapes are anointed. Period.
2.) Another correction that needs to be made is the fact that the article says that some have still held fast to the teaching of Hobart Freeman. Well, since Hobart preached the word, the word is what some have held on to. Those ministers who once were part of Faith Assembly have left and have gone under a word where they are not challenged, or have gone in deception, such as the Laughing Revival, for instance. Some have gone into sin. Some have gone back into their denomonations and their creeds. So yes, they have left the word, so to speak. They are no longer faithful to the word of God. And hence, the need for the change.
3.) Finally, the comment that Hobart Freeman has this cliche stating "What I confess, I possess" was erroneously footnoted (footnote 7) that the comment was mentioned on tape number 115 "Healing in the Atonement." I have listened to the tape twice to hear the comment and no such comment has ever been made on that tape. Please correct this error to reflect the correct reference.
You say that my corrections do not show neutrality (such as the use of the word "anointed" when referring to the tapes. Well, all I can say is that to me, the article does not show neutrality as it was written as it showed the Hobart Freeman was a false teacher and one that was responsible for the deaths of some in his congregation. How do you know that it was his fault for the deaths. How do you know if it wasn't the membership's fault. Read the Tomax site again and you will see that there is more to it that meets the eye. I know a whole lot more than you will ever know about what happened there as I read things from other former members. I don't have all the answers but I do know more than you. So if you want a more neutral article, then stop changing my corrections, please.
Like the other errors that were made, (incorrect book references, comments,) I feel that an outsider like yourself should not think that you are an expert on all matters pertaining to Faith Assembly or Hobart Freeman. If you want to write about an article, your facts must be correct. They have been weighed and found wanting and therefore, this article, as well as this website, is very lacking in authoratative information but is simply surmising just to put a true man of God down. But that is fine. The world and the church have been doing that for years anyway. But God will vindicate His servant and the word that was preached, in spite of the contrary.
Now please make the proper corrections or else this article will be shown incorrect to the editors.
Thank you.
The continued insertion of "anointed" and replacement of the "teachings of Hobart Freeman" with "the Word of God" ARE subjective assertions out of place in an encyclopedia and will continue to be reverted whenever they are made. Any correction of fact or citation will be and has been accepted. Accurate citations for the four points in the healing doctrine are especially wanted. If they aren't forthcoming these points will eventually be deleted as unsubstantiated.
Finally threatening to show this article to the editors is most silly. If you think it really is that inaccurate then don't threaten, do it.
To the recent editor: I was amazed at the quality that you added to the article...the additional sources and corrections will be valuable to future researchers.
BUT...If I may speak frankly, WTF re: the bottom-most edit. Reverting that. I'm sure that we can agree that the POV there is not N.
I was trying to introduce a reasonable form of words that would not offend the fellow who keeps on inserting "annointed" and "word of God" yet be reasonably neutral and evidence-based. However your removal of the edit you refered to proves that I was unsuccessful and that it should be left as is until, or unless, something better can be suggested.
After watching the recent series of edits and the comments on this talk page, I have made some changes to the article as follows:
Three other important points:
I have amended the article re the above, because:
As with my post above, could I please ask that people sign their posts and use edit summaries, as it is much easier to follow the changes that way. Thanks. Euryalus 00:03, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
I have to say that I'm amazed by the amount of work that's been done on the article this past week...202.55.158.136 's meticulous sourcing and Euryalus's encyclopedic eye have (hopefully) given the article a new chance at escaping 'B' status. Thanks for the hard work guys...
72.86.96.17 22:00-ish, 30 July 2007 (EDT)
Additional photos of Hobart Freeman are available from the article [ Freeman: Mystic, Monk or Minister] by John J. Davis, Times-Union Warsaw IN 1983. However I am not sure whether their usage is acceptable to Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.55.158.136 ( talk) 03:27, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
An anonymous IP has removed a number of references to an individual from this talk page. This is probably appropriate as they appear to have been personal attacks.
However they also removed a warning not to edit other people's posts, following an earlier modification of a comment so that it said the opposite of what its author intended. I have restored this warning, as no individual is named in it and editing other's posts in this manner is vandalism. Euryalus 01:37, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
An anon IP recently made three changes to the article. After some consideration I have removed two of them as follows:
Any comments welcome. However please do not simply reinsert the removed material without discussion. Euryalus ( talk) 10:18, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Image:HobartFreeman.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 22:57, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Done 202.55.158.136 ( talk) —Preceding comment was added at 13:00, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Links broken - I couldn't figure out how to edit them so I will leave it to you tehnophiles. The last line under Publications about the books to read on line should be http://faithmandp.com/ The first link under Sources should be removed as Faith Assembly has no direct contact with Faith Ministries any longer The second link under sources should be http://faithmandp.com/ Hardbones ( talk) 19:02, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
Well I tried to edit them and it didn't work. I guess I should have left it to someone more qualified. Maybe someone can fix my edit. Hardbones ( talk) 19:10, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
I restored the links to the 2 discussion forums. I don't see a problem with having a link to forums that discuss Hobart Freeman and issues relating to his life and ministry. If you have a problem with that the proper thing to do is put your reasons here so they can be discussed —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hardbones ( talk • contribs) 00:43, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
There are a couple of comments that need to be addressed regarding my corrections and why they need to stop being reversed by the "editors."
1.) One can dispute whether or not the teachings of Hobart Freeman were anointed or not. That depends on whether one was set free by the word of God that was preached there. Did the man preach the word of God? Many seem to think that it was his "opinions" or "his twist of scripture" that he preached. But many have been set free from bondages by the word of God though this man of God. The anointing breaks the yoke of bondage and so the anointing is on the word. Hobart Freeman was just a vessel used by God, just like any other minister of the gospel. Since he preached the word and that is all you get on the tapes, the tapes are anointed. Period.
2.) Another correction that needs to be made is the fact that the article says that some have still held fast to the teaching of Hobart Freeman. Well, since Hobart preached the word, the word is what some have held on to. Those ministers who once were part of Faith Assembly have left and have gone under a word where they are not challenged, or have gone in deception, such as the Laughing Revival, for instance. Some have gone into sin. Some have gone back into their denomonations and their creeds. So yes, they have left the word, so to speak. They are no longer faithful to the word of God. And hence, the need for the change.
3.) Finally, the comment that Hobart Freeman has this cliche stating "What I confess, I possess" was erroneously footnoted (footnote 7) that the comment was mentioned on tape number 115 "Healing in the Atonement." I have listened to the tape twice to hear the comment and no such comment has ever been made on that tape. Please correct this error to reflect the correct reference.
You say that my corrections do not show neutrality (such as the use of the word "anointed" when referring to the tapes. Well, all I can say is that to me, the article does not show neutrality as it was written as it showed the Hobart Freeman was a false teacher and one that was responsible for the deaths of some in his congregation. How do you know that it was his fault for the deaths. How do you know if it wasn't the membership's fault. Read the Tomax site again and you will see that there is more to it that meets the eye. I know a whole lot more than you will ever know about what happened there as I read things from other former members. I don't have all the answers but I do know more than you. So if you want a more neutral article, then stop changing my corrections, please.
Like the other errors that were made, (incorrect book references, comments,) I feel that an outsider like yourself should not think that you are an expert on all matters pertaining to Faith Assembly or Hobart Freeman. If you want to write about an article, your facts must be correct. They have been weighed and found wanting and therefore, this article, as well as this website, is very lacking in authoratative information but is simply surmising just to put a true man of God down. But that is fine. The world and the church have been doing that for years anyway. But God will vindicate His servant and the word that was preached, in spite of the contrary.
Now please make the proper corrections or else this article will be shown incorrect to the editors.
Thank you.
The continued insertion of "anointed" and replacement of the "teachings of Hobart Freeman" with "the Word of God" ARE subjective assertions out of place in an encyclopedia and will continue to be reverted whenever they are made. Any correction of fact or citation will be and has been accepted. Accurate citations for the four points in the healing doctrine are especially wanted. If they aren't forthcoming these points will eventually be deleted as unsubstantiated.
Finally threatening to show this article to the editors is most silly. If you think it really is that inaccurate then don't threaten, do it.
To the recent editor: I was amazed at the quality that you added to the article...the additional sources and corrections will be valuable to future researchers.
BUT...If I may speak frankly, WTF re: the bottom-most edit. Reverting that. I'm sure that we can agree that the POV there is not N.
I was trying to introduce a reasonable form of words that would not offend the fellow who keeps on inserting "annointed" and "word of God" yet be reasonably neutral and evidence-based. However your removal of the edit you refered to proves that I was unsuccessful and that it should be left as is until, or unless, something better can be suggested.
After watching the recent series of edits and the comments on this talk page, I have made some changes to the article as follows:
Three other important points:
I have amended the article re the above, because:
As with my post above, could I please ask that people sign their posts and use edit summaries, as it is much easier to follow the changes that way. Thanks. Euryalus 00:03, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
I have to say that I'm amazed by the amount of work that's been done on the article this past week...202.55.158.136 's meticulous sourcing and Euryalus's encyclopedic eye have (hopefully) given the article a new chance at escaping 'B' status. Thanks for the hard work guys...
72.86.96.17 22:00-ish, 30 July 2007 (EDT)
Additional photos of Hobart Freeman are available from the article [ Freeman: Mystic, Monk or Minister] by John J. Davis, Times-Union Warsaw IN 1983. However I am not sure whether their usage is acceptable to Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.55.158.136 ( talk) 03:27, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
An anonymous IP has removed a number of references to an individual from this talk page. This is probably appropriate as they appear to have been personal attacks.
However they also removed a warning not to edit other people's posts, following an earlier modification of a comment so that it said the opposite of what its author intended. I have restored this warning, as no individual is named in it and editing other's posts in this manner is vandalism. Euryalus 01:37, 2 August 2007 (UTC)
An anon IP recently made three changes to the article. After some consideration I have removed two of them as follows:
Any comments welcome. However please do not simply reinsert the removed material without discussion. Euryalus ( talk) 10:18, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Image:HobartFreeman.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot ( talk) 22:57, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Done 202.55.158.136 ( talk) —Preceding comment was added at 13:00, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
Links broken - I couldn't figure out how to edit them so I will leave it to you tehnophiles. The last line under Publications about the books to read on line should be http://faithmandp.com/ The first link under Sources should be removed as Faith Assembly has no direct contact with Faith Ministries any longer The second link under sources should be http://faithmandp.com/ Hardbones ( talk) 19:02, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
Well I tried to edit them and it didn't work. I guess I should have left it to someone more qualified. Maybe someone can fix my edit. Hardbones ( talk) 19:10, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
I restored the links to the 2 discussion forums. I don't see a problem with having a link to forums that discuss Hobart Freeman and issues relating to his life and ministry. If you have a problem with that the proper thing to do is put your reasons here so they can be discussed —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hardbones ( talk • contribs) 00:43, 10 January 2010 (UTC)