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Untitled

When was she born? The third sentence doesn't make sense.

VeloVol ( talk) 15:20, 25 May 2012 (UTC) reply

schoeler: This article could use some major revising... —Preceding undated comment added 02:24, 2 June 2012 (UTC) reply

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GA Review

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Emily Donelson/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sammielh ( talk · contribs) 16:27, 29 March 2023 (UTC) reply

I will pick up this review. From a first glance, the article looks in good shape but I'll leave my comments below. Sammielh ( talk) 16:27, 29 March 2023 (UTC) reply

Good Article review progress box
Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()
3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Comments

  • "Emily Tennessee Donelson was born on June 1, 1807, in Donelson, Tennessee, to" per MOS:DATECOMMA and MOS:GEOCOMMA.
  • "She first attended a log house school in Nashville" The 'first' feels out of place when the second school isn't mentioned until the second paragraph.
  • Minor point but the text refers to the "Nashville Female Academy" and the infobox refers to the Nashville Female Seminary (redlinked)
  • There is some discrepancy in the article over whether The Hermitage has a capitalised 'The'
  • "They had chosen to marry early" -> "They chose to marry early..." Is there any information about when they were engaged as the text mentions that planning was delayed but there is no information about how long this delay was (months, years, etc).
  • "17-years-old" I don't believe this should be hyphenated (a quick google says it's only hyphenated when modifying the noun i.e. "17-year-old girl")
  • When listing their children's ages, you should use an endash instead of a hyphen (–)
  • I would link White House at its first use, it's currently linked at its second use
  • Is there any detail on when they returned to Tennessee following the 1824 election?
  • "Donelson traveled to Florence, Alabama, in October 1828" per MOS:GEOCOMMA
  • "Jackson had Donelson become the White House hostess" -> "Jackson asked Donelson to become the White House hostess"
  • " grief-stricken for the loss of his wife" -> " grief-stricken by the loss of his wife"
  • "The feud" is repeated in the Petticoat affair section
  • "Donelson's health began to fail in spring of 1836" this feels a bit out of place when the previous section discusses her health worsening
  • "Donelson died on December 19," I would perhaps specify 1836 as this is an important date in the article
  • "The Petticoat affair may have had political ramifications that would shape 19th century politics in the United States" This is a bit of a throwaway line in the legacy and it would be nice to have even one more sentence on what those ramifications were and why it is only specified as "may"
  • "In the 1982 Siena College Research Institute survey asking historians to assess American first ladies, Donelson and several other "acting" first ladies were included"
  • Earwig is clear so there don't appear to be any issues with copyright violations
  • The link on the photo page on Commons is broken, can an archived version be added?
  • I would recommend that American Lion be fully formatted in the citations (not a GA requirement)
  • You can link Jon Meacham and Daniel Feller in the references (optional)

Source spot check

I haven't checked all the references but they seem to generally back up the statements in the article with the exceptions of the below:

  • I cannot see where in Schneider and Schneider that it says she was close to her parents in law
    • I think it's a fair summary of Jackson's deceased wife, Rachel Jackson, had loved Emily Donelson dearly, and the president always called her "my daughter." I edited the article to specify it's talking about them and not his biological parents.
      • Apologies, my confusion was around them not being his biological parents.
  • I don't see where Feller mentions Mary Ann Eastin
  • For "Jackson's wife asked Donelson to go to the White House and fulfill the role of first lady of the United States", the source says only that Rachel asked her to handle the social functions. I don't see where it states that she "took on the role of first lady in its entirety" in the next section either
  • I would also amend "popular in Washington society" to avoid close paraphrasing

I'll put the article on hold but let me know if you'd like me to clarify any of the above. Sammielh ( talk) 16:27, 29 March 2023 (UTC) reply

I believe all comments have been addressed. Thebiguglyalien ( talk) 00:08, 30 March 2023 (UTC) reply
This looks good, a very comprehensive article! I've made a few small grammatical amendments to the article but I'm happy to promote. Congratulations! Sammielh ( talk) 15:20, 31 March 2023 (UTC) reply

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Lightburst ( talk) 01:37, 9 May 2023 (UTC) reply

(
)

Improved to Good Article status by Thebiguglyalien ( talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke ( talk) at 19:49, 5 April 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Emily Donelson; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page. reply

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

Hook eligibility:

  • Cited: No - n
  • Interesting: Yes
QPQ: Done.

Overall: @ Onegreatjoke: This is a fascinating article, thanks for picking this up and nominating it -- really got lost in it. Some minor notes:

  • The hook as it stands isn't exactly in the article. It currently says that, "Due to her sickness, Donelson effectively stopped serving as White House hostess in 1834," which I feel is different than "resigning". The article also doesn't say that this illness specifically is tuberculosis-- she dies from the disease later in 1836, but this is back in 1834. I'd make an ALT that would say "due to illness" or something like that (even though it's slightly less interesting that way).
  • Secondly, I think that this is a prime example of an article that would do well with a picture -- File:Emily Donelson.jpg is public domain and would definitely be suitable (and can likely be reasonably cropped to fit the bill here). Nomader ( talk) 22:18, 5 April 2023 (UTC) reply
@ Nomader: So how about "... that Emily Donelson stopped serving as First Lady of the United States due to the fact that she was going to die from an illness? Onegreatjoke ( talk) 19:05, 16 April 2023 (UTC) reply
@ Onegreatjoke: I'm fine with this ALT. The above hook is approved and is present and cited in the article.
@ Onegreatjoke and Nomader: This may be nitpicky, but I don't think the hook is quite right. She didn't stop serving because she was going to die; she stopped serving due to illness, and then died two years later. Perhaps the hook could be reworded to that effect. Sojourner in the earth ( talk) 19:10, 18 April 2023 (UTC) reply
"... that Emily Donelson stopped serving as First Lady of the United States due to an illness that would later kill her?" Onegreatjoke ( talk) 19:38, 18 April 2023 (UTC) reply
The trouble is, as Nomader said above, the article doesn't say that the illness in question was the same illness that killed her. The hook would literally have to state both facts separately, i.e. "...that Emily Donelson stopped serving as First Lady of the United States due to illness, and died two years later?", but I don't know if that's interesting. Sojourner in the earth ( talk) 20:02, 18 April 2023 (UTC) reply
Sorry I missed that in the ALT that Onegreatjoke proposed after I made a flag of it in my initial review. I feel that it could be interesting if it was just the illness part of it? Some ALTs below (the second is me just throwing out a curveball). Nomader ( talk) 07:11, 19 April 2023 (UTC) reply
  • "... that Emily Donelson stopped serving as First Lady of the United States due to illness?" I think as an ALT it has enough mystery on its own without death here.
  • "... that former First Lady of the United States Emily Donelson died two days before her husband returned to their house?"
You second ALT doesn't really work for me (not enough context), but the first one looks good. If Onegreatjoke is happy with it, I think we can approve between us since it's only a slight change from the original. Sojourner in the earth ( talk) 16:42, 19 April 2023 (UTC) reply
I'm fine with it. Onegreatjoke ( talk) 17:04, 20 April 2023 (UTC) reply
Reaffirming Nomader's tick from earlier, with the ALT as proposed above: "... that Emily Donelson stopped serving as First Lady of the United States due to illness?" Sojourner in the earth ( talk) 20:03, 20 April 2023 (UTC) reply


Wedding festivities

She plans to get married, but festivities are cancelled due to her sister-in-law's death. But nothing is said about a wedding on a later date. Does this mean that they had a sombre wedding with no celebrations? If so, Festivities were canceled would do well to become Post-wedding festivities were canceled. Nyttend ( talk) 22:09, 14 May 2023 (UTC) reply

Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk:Emily_Donelson&oldid=1207009141"
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Untitled

When was she born? The third sentence doesn't make sense.

VeloVol ( talk) 15:20, 25 May 2012 (UTC) reply

schoeler: This article could use some major revising... —Preceding undated comment added 02:24, 2 June 2012 (UTC) reply

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Emily Donelson. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{ source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:38, 20 September 2017 (UTC) reply

GA Review

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Emily Donelson/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sammielh ( talk · contribs) 16:27, 29 March 2023 (UTC) reply

I will pick up this review. From a first glance, the article looks in good shape but I'll leave my comments below. Sammielh ( talk) 16:27, 29 March 2023 (UTC) reply

Good Article review progress box
Criteria: 1a. prose () 1b. MoS () 2a. ref layout () 2b. cites WP:RS () 2c. no WP:OR () 2d. no WP:CV ()
3a. broadness () 3b. focus () 4. neutral () 5. stable () 6a. free or tagged images () 6b. pics relevant ()
Note: this represents where the article stands relative to the Good Article criteria. Criteria marked are unassessed

Comments

  • "Emily Tennessee Donelson was born on June 1, 1807, in Donelson, Tennessee, to" per MOS:DATECOMMA and MOS:GEOCOMMA.
  • "She first attended a log house school in Nashville" The 'first' feels out of place when the second school isn't mentioned until the second paragraph.
  • Minor point but the text refers to the "Nashville Female Academy" and the infobox refers to the Nashville Female Seminary (redlinked)
  • There is some discrepancy in the article over whether The Hermitage has a capitalised 'The'
  • "They had chosen to marry early" -> "They chose to marry early..." Is there any information about when they were engaged as the text mentions that planning was delayed but there is no information about how long this delay was (months, years, etc).
  • "17-years-old" I don't believe this should be hyphenated (a quick google says it's only hyphenated when modifying the noun i.e. "17-year-old girl")
  • When listing their children's ages, you should use an endash instead of a hyphen (–)
  • I would link White House at its first use, it's currently linked at its second use
  • Is there any detail on when they returned to Tennessee following the 1824 election?
  • "Donelson traveled to Florence, Alabama, in October 1828" per MOS:GEOCOMMA
  • "Jackson had Donelson become the White House hostess" -> "Jackson asked Donelson to become the White House hostess"
  • " grief-stricken for the loss of his wife" -> " grief-stricken by the loss of his wife"
  • "The feud" is repeated in the Petticoat affair section
  • "Donelson's health began to fail in spring of 1836" this feels a bit out of place when the previous section discusses her health worsening
  • "Donelson died on December 19," I would perhaps specify 1836 as this is an important date in the article
  • "The Petticoat affair may have had political ramifications that would shape 19th century politics in the United States" This is a bit of a throwaway line in the legacy and it would be nice to have even one more sentence on what those ramifications were and why it is only specified as "may"
  • "In the 1982 Siena College Research Institute survey asking historians to assess American first ladies, Donelson and several other "acting" first ladies were included"
  • Earwig is clear so there don't appear to be any issues with copyright violations
  • The link on the photo page on Commons is broken, can an archived version be added?
  • I would recommend that American Lion be fully formatted in the citations (not a GA requirement)
  • You can link Jon Meacham and Daniel Feller in the references (optional)

Source spot check

I haven't checked all the references but they seem to generally back up the statements in the article with the exceptions of the below:

  • I cannot see where in Schneider and Schneider that it says she was close to her parents in law
    • I think it's a fair summary of Jackson's deceased wife, Rachel Jackson, had loved Emily Donelson dearly, and the president always called her "my daughter." I edited the article to specify it's talking about them and not his biological parents.
      • Apologies, my confusion was around them not being his biological parents.
  • I don't see where Feller mentions Mary Ann Eastin
  • For "Jackson's wife asked Donelson to go to the White House and fulfill the role of first lady of the United States", the source says only that Rachel asked her to handle the social functions. I don't see where it states that she "took on the role of first lady in its entirety" in the next section either
  • I would also amend "popular in Washington society" to avoid close paraphrasing

I'll put the article on hold but let me know if you'd like me to clarify any of the above. Sammielh ( talk) 16:27, 29 March 2023 (UTC) reply

I believe all comments have been addressed. Thebiguglyalien ( talk) 00:08, 30 March 2023 (UTC) reply
This looks good, a very comprehensive article! I've made a few small grammatical amendments to the article but I'm happy to promote. Congratulations! Sammielh ( talk) 15:20, 31 March 2023 (UTC) reply

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Lightburst ( talk) 01:37, 9 May 2023 (UTC) reply

(
)

Improved to Good Article status by Thebiguglyalien ( talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke ( talk) at 19:49, 5 April 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Emily Donelson; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page. reply

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems

Hook eligibility:

  • Cited: No - n
  • Interesting: Yes
QPQ: Done.

Overall: @ Onegreatjoke: This is a fascinating article, thanks for picking this up and nominating it -- really got lost in it. Some minor notes:

  • The hook as it stands isn't exactly in the article. It currently says that, "Due to her sickness, Donelson effectively stopped serving as White House hostess in 1834," which I feel is different than "resigning". The article also doesn't say that this illness specifically is tuberculosis-- she dies from the disease later in 1836, but this is back in 1834. I'd make an ALT that would say "due to illness" or something like that (even though it's slightly less interesting that way).
  • Secondly, I think that this is a prime example of an article that would do well with a picture -- File:Emily Donelson.jpg is public domain and would definitely be suitable (and can likely be reasonably cropped to fit the bill here). Nomader ( talk) 22:18, 5 April 2023 (UTC) reply
@ Nomader: So how about "... that Emily Donelson stopped serving as First Lady of the United States due to the fact that she was going to die from an illness? Onegreatjoke ( talk) 19:05, 16 April 2023 (UTC) reply
@ Onegreatjoke: I'm fine with this ALT. The above hook is approved and is present and cited in the article.
@ Onegreatjoke and Nomader: This may be nitpicky, but I don't think the hook is quite right. She didn't stop serving because she was going to die; she stopped serving due to illness, and then died two years later. Perhaps the hook could be reworded to that effect. Sojourner in the earth ( talk) 19:10, 18 April 2023 (UTC) reply
"... that Emily Donelson stopped serving as First Lady of the United States due to an illness that would later kill her?" Onegreatjoke ( talk) 19:38, 18 April 2023 (UTC) reply
The trouble is, as Nomader said above, the article doesn't say that the illness in question was the same illness that killed her. The hook would literally have to state both facts separately, i.e. "...that Emily Donelson stopped serving as First Lady of the United States due to illness, and died two years later?", but I don't know if that's interesting. Sojourner in the earth ( talk) 20:02, 18 April 2023 (UTC) reply
Sorry I missed that in the ALT that Onegreatjoke proposed after I made a flag of it in my initial review. I feel that it could be interesting if it was just the illness part of it? Some ALTs below (the second is me just throwing out a curveball). Nomader ( talk) 07:11, 19 April 2023 (UTC) reply
  • "... that Emily Donelson stopped serving as First Lady of the United States due to illness?" I think as an ALT it has enough mystery on its own without death here.
  • "... that former First Lady of the United States Emily Donelson died two days before her husband returned to their house?"
You second ALT doesn't really work for me (not enough context), but the first one looks good. If Onegreatjoke is happy with it, I think we can approve between us since it's only a slight change from the original. Sojourner in the earth ( talk) 16:42, 19 April 2023 (UTC) reply
I'm fine with it. Onegreatjoke ( talk) 17:04, 20 April 2023 (UTC) reply
Reaffirming Nomader's tick from earlier, with the ALT as proposed above: "... that Emily Donelson stopped serving as First Lady of the United States due to illness?" Sojourner in the earth ( talk) 20:03, 20 April 2023 (UTC) reply


Wedding festivities

She plans to get married, but festivities are cancelled due to her sister-in-law's death. But nothing is said about a wedding on a later date. Does this mean that they had a sombre wedding with no celebrations? If so, Festivities were canceled would do well to become Post-wedding festivities were canceled. Nyttend ( talk) 22:09, 14 May 2023 (UTC) reply

Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk:Emily_Donelson&oldid=1207009141"

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