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It is a matter of annoyance to me that people say things like "It's not the volts, it's the amps that kill you." Seeing something like:
points out, I think, a great deal of confusion in this matter. Line current is not important; the current through your body is important. Line voltage is important, as it in part determines the current through your body.
I don't really know how to fix this article so it is factual, but doesn't rely too heavily on explanations of Ohm's law, etc. I also don't think it should look like a compromise between the "voltage" and "current camps", since there aren't really two points of view here. Idea? [[User:CyborgTosser| CyborgTosser ( Only half the battle)]] 23:38, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Upon further review, I'm not sure about a lot of the information here. For example, most other sources I find list currents about 10 times here for each of the effects (about 10-15mA for unable to let go of wires, hundreds of mA for fribulation). And to say that the voltages in homes are a deadly combination seems a bit alarmist. I'm going to do some more research before touching this one. [[User:CyborgTosser| CyborgTosser ( Only half the battle)]] 00:01, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Since mains current is AC, though, it cannot cause your muscles to contract. The alternating polarity will cancel out and you won't hang on. A strong DC current can make your muscles contract around the electrical source. Adam850 09:23, 26 January 2005 (UTC)
That's false. AC certainly can cause contraction of muscles. Muscles aren't motors, and the way in which electricity disrupts normal neuromotor control isn't a matter of superposition. -- Blair P. Houghton 04:26, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I removed the dispute notice as no one has edited this article or said anything on the talk page for weeks and weeks. If anyone still has a problem with the facts as presented in this article, take the usual NPOV approach and cite sources to support the sides of the argument as presented by various schools of thought on the matter. — Trilobite (Talk) 19:40, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Hmmm, the main page here is a typical Wikipedia page where figures are quoted and even referenced, but the average reader is left none the wiser as to the truth of the matter.
Here is my layman's understanding of this, written in simplistic terms.
The most basic "unit" of electricity is "charge". Imagine the charge unit is a ball. The dangers associated with this ball are dependent on two things:
1. How hard the ball is.
2. How fast the ball is moving.
By extending this metaphor to an electrical charge unit:
1. The "hardness" of the ball is analogous to the "energy" of the charge unit - it's voltage (V).
2. The "speed" of the ball is analogous to the "flow" of the charge unit - it's current (A).
Now, a very hard ball (ie, high energy charge unit) might do you no harm at all if it moves towards you very very slowly (ie, with very low current)
A very soft ball (ie, a very low energy charge unit) might do you no harm at all even if propelled towards you at high speed (ie, with high current)
So really the dangers associated with our "ball" (charge unit) are a combination of these two factors: "hardness" (voltage/energy) and "speed" (current). Therefore it is the ELECTRICAL POWER of the charge unit that determines it's lethality or otherwise, because:
electrical power (measured in watts) = electrical energy per charge unit(measured in volts) x electrical current (measured in amperes)
Threfore it is not really the level of voltage or current alone that is lethal, but the level of electical POWER ("wattage" if you like) that determines lethality.
That is my layman's take on this. Feel free to disagree and comment. I will not be making changes to the main page. John2o2o2o ( talk) 14:32, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
Isn't it a bit POV to claim that throughout the world 'the Chair' is viewed as 'inhumane'? Isn't it rather the case that it's gruesome and sickening to watch (a rather different point). There is quite a bit of evidence (see Dr Grandin's animal husbandry web site) that an electric current of an amp or two is an efficient way of inducing unconsciousness in a large mammal, provided the current path is through the brain. (There was also at least one 19th century US medic who self-experimented (!) on the level of current sufficient to induce unconsciousness) 80.177.213.144
True (well more or less - though it wasn't the reason we in the UK abolished the penalty many, many years ago) - but in the present context, irrelevant :-) 80.177.213.144
The 100 to 200 mA region for fibrillation agrees with my best recollection (ARRL handbook in days of valves/tubes?), but where's the evidence that such fibrillation 'tears the tissue' and 'destroys the heart' - I though the whole point about fibrillation was that it _could_ be stopped, by a large electric shock, from a defibrillator - though of course time is of the essence, because a heart in fibrillation pumps no blood. Linuxlad 01:55, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
I would like this article to define electrocution as how many amps/volts pass through the heart.
If you're asking how many "amps/volts" it takes to cause death, the answer is... it depends. The number varies with the individual person. LadyPlural ( talk) 22:57, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Breaing in mind we only respond to the current, why is it that hv shocks tend to hurt (sting) more but low voltage ones tend to 'shock' you more(ie take your breath away)?? Or is it just me? Any answers/ sugesstions?-- Light current 02:58, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Could be that the bad shcocks Ive had have been from 240v from left hand to leg (or left hand to right hand) and those are very shocking! They take your breath away. Its also possible that these mains shocks are longer in duration than you might get from a HV capcitor of a few pF. THe HV shocks are probably limited to much less current, and if they do not pass thro the chest, just tend to sting the entrance / exit points. Maybe we need to mention also the max safe amount of stored energy. I think its 2J.-- Light current 18:59, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
I just hooked up an ohm meter to my body and it showed me these results:
Body Area | Impedance |
---|---|
Face | 1.5 Mega Ohm |
Balls | 2.5 Mega Ohm |
Organ (the non-musical kind) |
3.5 Mega Ohm |
Thighs | 3.0 Mega Ohm |
Fingers | 2.5 Mega Ohm |
Soles | 4.5 Mega Ohm |
Feet | 20 Mega Ohm to over 200 Mega Ohm (fluctuates constantly) |
This data is not made up, I really did conduct this experiment just now. According to these numbers and using Ohm's law, how much current would the body be capable of letting through? Also, can someone verify these numbers? Caution: This should only be done by grown ups and NO CHILDREN. Thanks!
There isn't much point in 'verifying' the numbers. Try it again on a different day or using smooth and then rough electrodes or on skin recently washed with soap and then after washing with detergent or with a different test current or varying a multitude of other factors. The numbers will vary. The test with different test current illustrates that the body is not an ohmic material. The most important point is that the source voltage is not a useful guide to the degree of risk. The current that flows is a very rough guide, though the effects vary in an individual over a wide range unless the conditions are very carefully controlled. Controlled conditions are of course not available (except perhaps to an executioner or torturer) so one should treat any voltage over 24 volts as though it is potentially lethal. Electric shock is not the only hazard, even lower voltages can be dangerous if they cause arcing or heating. treesmill 00:55, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Body Area | Impedance (ohm) |
---|---|
Between two fingers after licking them | Ohm meter consistently begins reading at 50K, and continues to rise to 170K (after which I stopped measuring). Meter was still rising when I stopped taking the measurement. |
Between two uninsulated metal objects that I'm holding in wet licked fingers | Ohm meter begins at 130K, and continues to rise to 180K (after which I stopped measuring). Meter was still rising when I stopped taking the measurement. |
Between upper & lower lip after wetting them with my tongue | 25K |
This is very cool. Especially interesting is the 25K Ohm reading between my wet lips. My faith in the veracity of this article is restored. And I really appreciate your input!
I shall now go back to playing Grand_Theft_Auto_III (man, I love that game!!!).
This is all assuming the body is a simple resistor though. The figures actually make it non-linear with respect to voltage, in the same way as other insulators or semiconductors - see this link which I found off Google. So the impedance at 110V is much less than the impedance at 1.5V, and as a result the effects are going to be more severe than your measurements suggest.
So everyone here is getting dry skin measurement way above 200k, yet, the article calls out 10k. And, with no citations! WTF? Also, the article states as low as 1k. From what I'm hearing in the discussion, you need to pierce the skin. Is there any data on the distribution of resistance across population under controlled conditions?
Update: Saw the ePanorama link. I hadn't even considered contact area (assumed <1cm2). Question for the Australian Standard AS3859-1991, who is going to have 100cm2 of contact area?
Update2: I have heard that current flow through skin causes perspiration. Is this true? Could that explain the changes in resistance (higher current, more perspiration)? The footnotes state that the resistance at low voltage halves in the presence of conductive solutions.
Also, who touched 1000V with a large contact area, and long enough to make a measurement? Eet 1024 ( talk) 00:57, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
The resistance values in the article are ridiculously low every value i've ever taken has been in the megaohms. And consequently so are the claims that 32V can kill you. maybe if you plugged the terminals directly into your veins or something but def not through the skin. I work on electrocution circuits for a security company as a part-time job. The circuits we develop give out 10kV pulses and def won't kill you. The police tasers normally do 30kV - 50kV and have never killed anyone (not in this country anyway).
As for those values taken with wet lips etc you aren't measuring the resistance through your skin your just measuring it through the moisture on the surface of ur skin to another point on the surface. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.211.76.57 ( talk) 10:31, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
I was looking for resistivity of through the skin not over the skin when I came across this page. Firstly the version I saw the had wrong units. (Ohm/cm^2) so I have removed it. But this is not a specific measurement and will depend on how far apart the electrodes were what was the contact area. Need a better reference. I will return to this page if I find something useful —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.1.43.172 ( talk) 14:46, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
I am moving the following edit by 59.93.33.95 from the main article to here:
(The the answer for the question "How we are getting electric shock from independent voltage sources?" such as an unearthed generator unit or LPG ignitor etc are still unexplained)
In theory, to get a shock form an un-earthed (ungrounded) voltage source, you must touch both ends. However high frequency sources, such as a spark generator, will often have enough capacitative coupling to earth to cause a shock. Also a source of charge, such as lightning or a charged high-voltage capacitor, can produce a single-ended shock. Finally, one should never rely on the assumption that a particular generator is un-earthed, but always turn it off or disconnect from it before working on circuits.-- agr 15:24, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
There are also induced currents in conductors, where an electromagnetic field is changing parallel to the line, such as a crossing power line, EMP from lightning or other sources (such as arc welders), or even geomagnetic impulses from a CME striking the Earth's magnetic field. That has caused significant fires, such as from one nuclear test in the former USSR and in telegraphs having their paper catch fire in the later 1800's. All of which is found on Wikipedia. Wzrd1 ( talk) 03:41, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
I don't think that ECT qualifies as a "disputed" therapy. It does have many detractors, but is very widely used and generally accepted by psychiatrists, so far as I can tell. People can read the article on the treatment itself for a full idea of the merits of the debate. If you disagree, feel free to add the qualifier back in, and explain yourself here. Mgcsinc 12:41, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
--try @least 2 places in the U.S that use ECT as a punishment. If you refuse to shower in the brown water that the bad neglected piping system in the building produces ...they zap ya. MPC, better known as Manhattan Psychiatric Cener is the culprit.
Please don't record my IP because they may say i'm crazy for telling the truth and put me in there. But truly, i wonder where the money they get from the state goes?
Thorn2myenemies ( talk) 22:08, 12 April 2010 (UTC)thorn.
The article sub-section heading "Electroconvulsive therapy" is inappropriate for the whole sub-section - I've changed it to "Medical uses", with "Electroconvulsive therapy" as one of these uses.
Bricaniwi (
talk) 08:56, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
"However, death has occurred from supplies as low as 32 volts." Is there a source for this information? Is the 32 volts AC (or DC)? If so, what's the corresponding lethal voltage for DC (or AC)? Calbaer 01:27, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
So what are the typical effects of getting electrocuted from common household appliances (like touching a socket)? Does a person need CPR and go to the hospital, or does he/she just “come to” after a while? QuizQuick 17:56, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Electrocution can also mean just to cause injury by electric shock - look at a dictionary not wikipedia. I've been knocked out by electrocution twice and both times it was quite fast I was concious again a few seconds after hitting the ground. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.211.76.57 ( talk) 10:44, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
I've personally "been lit up" more than a few times, either carelessness, bad insulation of a live circuit, either way, I've had a number of times I have taken significant current. ONE time, I'm QUITE certain, in retrospect, that my heart was stopped for a second or so. It was more a sensation of something missing in sensation (heartbeat). And the circuit designer telling me that I drew over three amps from one arm to the other, with a 27KV, low current source, riding on a 130 volt DC source, which destroyed said power supply. I was confused beyond the norm for getting a 27 KV hit. I was disoriented. I'm very rarely disoriented. Then, I felt that odd sensation disappear with a thump in my chest and general weakness from a rather severe shock (lactic acid excess in the muscles). From my EMT-P training, it seems that my heart was either flat lined or in some form of fibrillation, then an escape beat corrected the pattern for me to discuss it today. :) I've also personally observed it in a patient when a lightning strike hit the covered bleachers at a military rifle range that was occupied by troops awaiting transport away from the electrical storm. One man was down, no pulse. CPR was initiated promptly. An ambulance arrived and we helped hook the patient up to the ECG. CPR was halted for that, due to the location and some other mechanical issues of the scene. As we were observing PEA on the monitor, a massive escape beat occurred and somewhat normal QRS pattern ensued (a few oddities that are consistent with acidosis from prolonged time without circulation). Floored all of us present! Said patient was hospitalized for a day, then released. That said, it's all OR for those cases. And I'd NOT hope that my heart, with its dozens of pacers, could restart itself in an emergency after I was severely shocked. But, the heart IS well documented to be able to restore a normal or as near normal as possible pattern after significant events happen. But then, there's the kid that gets hit in the chest by a baseball. So, we don't take chances. Wzrd1 ( talk) 03:56, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
If an electrified object is dropped into water, how far do the effects extend to? Say an electric wire fell into a stream at one end…how far away would a person in the water have to be to be clear of the danger? QuizQuick 18:08, 15 August 2006 (UTC) anyone?
When I started my electrical apprenticeship I was told one very important thing to do when applying first aid to an electric shock victim.
You should aways tap some of their bare skin with the back of your hand. If they are still electrically live, your hand and arm will contract away from the danger. Blaab 08:30, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
I will go with what I was told by an old industrial electronics tech, kick the SOB clear. DO NOT TOUCH. If you don't have a board or other non-conductive item and MUST, kick them. Once you touch, you're in an embrace that could give you eternity in a way that you'd prefer to avoid. Wzrd1 ( talk) 04:01, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
Apart from severe beatings, electric shock torture is the favourite method of the modern torturer. It leaves few visible signs on the victim's body, yet leaves a lasting impression on their mind. The fact that victims are strapped down, naked, during the torture, does not by it self, explain the sexual overtone to torture by electricity. Rather it is clear that this world's torturers actively seek up the sexual organs when applying the electricity to a victims body. Using the electrode like a substitute penis, the torturer humiliates his victim by penetrating his or her's erotic zones to great effect. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.60.195.137 ( talk • contribs).
Electrical shocks to the "erotic zones" isn't sexual. "Erotic zones" are called that for one reason, LOADED with nerve endings. So, electrical stimulation REALLY lets the victim know that the torturer is interested in whatever said torturer is interested in. NOT an opinion, but the source information is rather classified. There are declassed versions around somewhere, but it's late... Wzrd1 ( talk) 04:05, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
Can electrocution kill you instantly, or do you die slowly?
Um, why is there detailed and intricate description of electrical torture on both this talk page and in the actual article? That is disturbing and fulfills no knowledge except that of the dark thoughts of a sadist. No one wants to know a subjective account of the details of torturing someone with electricity. Remove the subjective account of electrical torture. Write that in your diary instead, and also reflect on how you would feel being the electrocuted one. Most forms of sadism do not utilize empathy as it deeply disturbs them and reveals their own fantasies as evil. Samhebert12 ( talk) 13:44, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
I have been looking through literature for information on the role of the frequency in the lethality of an electric shock. I am doing this as part of some research into what I suspect is an urban myth: that 60Hz is more deadly than 50Hz with all other factors being the same. Can anyone provide some input on this? -- rxnd ( t | € | c ) 14:17, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
It is possible to read through the instructions and never call an ambulance! How? The rescuer is instructed to resuscitate the victom if he has first aid knowledge. If the victom is dead the victom will never be resusciated so the rescuer won't move on to the call the ambulance step. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.119.148 ( talk) 01:10, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
If someone who is reading English Wikipedia about this hasn't seen even ONE show with CPR, they must be that living under a rock guy in a certain insurance commercial. Even a 80+ woman knew it, using a plunger, as she couldn't bend enough to help her husband knew it (a new device has been patented, based upon that). Wzrd1 ( talk) 04:09, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
"It is possible to have a voltage potential between neutral wires and ground in the event of an improperly wired (disconnected) neutral, or if it is part of certain obsolete (and now illegal[citation needed]) switch circuits."
I can give an example from personal experience that is relevant to this text. At the top and bottom of a stairwell, there were lights operated by three way switches such that either light could be operated individually from the top or bottom (two switches in each location). The two lights were on separate breakers. The top light took its hot from the upstairs circuit and the bottom light from the downstairs circuit. The dangerous part was that the top light completed its circuit through the downstairs wiring and the bottom light through the upstairs wiring such that even though the downstairs circuit breaker was turned off and the downstairs light did not illuminate and even tested dead with an multi-meter, live power was present downstairs (presumably through the filament of the upstairs light) when the downstairs light fixture was removed for replacement and I got sparks when I disconnected one of the wirenuts. Instead of running 4 wires up/down the stairwell they needed to run 6 but they took a short cut. To complicate matters, they apparently switched the neutral side of the lights instead of hot (a bad practice that means you can be electrocuted changing a light bulb even though the switch is off). Thus, when I disconnected the neutral? wire nut at the downstairs fixture, the current from the upstairs light had nowhere to go except through the air (or me). Three way switches are prone to unsafe wiring because they often run a significant distance and opposite ends may be in different power domains. Thus it is tempting to save the cost of two extra wires, or because they didn't realize they needed two extra wires until after drywall was installed, to complete part of the circuit through the wrong power domain. I can't tell you what the laws are over time but this was one of several unsafe wiring practices used by the original contractor that built that housing development. The other unsafe practices resulted in many fires. One was the use of aluminum wire with fixtures that were not designed for aluminum. Another was backwiring (aluminum wire, even), and the third was that power to the entire first floor lighting circuit was routed up from the basement circuit breaker panel through an exterior moisture prone outlet (dumb, dumb, dumb). At least some of these practices were legal at the time and at least some of them are illegal now. One should always be aware when working on electrical circuits that bad wiring practices may result in live power where you would not expect it, even where it has previously been tested to be absent. Some of these examples also illustrate that unsafe wiring practices combined together, can be far more unsafe than the practices by themselves. 67.76.175.5 ( talk) 04:58, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
The practice in some areas, mentioned in the main article, of prohibiting electric outlets in bathrooms may prove detrimental to safety. There are a number of small appliances that are commonly used in bathrooms including electric toothbrushes, electric razors, hair dryers, portable heaters, and sometimes ultrasonic denture cleaners, radios, televisions, and telephones (with wall warts). The lack of outlets may result in the use of extension cords to non-GFI protected outlets in other rooms and which may also be more susceptible to moisture (a fire hazard), given their construction and location, than built in outlets. Use of a GFI protected outlet in the bathroom is safer than an extension cord to a non-GFI protected outlet in another room. Thus requiring GFI protected outlets may be safer than prohibiting outlets given that people in developed countries are going to use electrical appliances anyway. Providing a safe location for most of these appliances, such as a shelf with drainage located slightly lower than the wash basin/vanity with some clearance for drips and overflow. that reduces the likelyhood of overturning into a sink or tub would be an additional safety measure. In addition to the electrocution hazard, moisture in bathrooms provides a potential for electrical connections to deteriorate and this hazard is present in the electric lighting and heating fixtures that may be present in a bathroom whether or not outlets are allowed and this problem is exacerbated by heat in light or heating fixtures. The use of portable heaters is a special concern from a fire hazard perspective since they are high current appliances that may accidently be left on and bathroom circuits, or the heater itself, may be adversely affected by moisture, and unlike built in heaters, they may not be designed for use in a moist environment. Augmenting GFI outlets and light fixtures for bathrooms with a thermal cutoff would provide some protection against moisture induced resistive contacts. Designing in a safe location and point of connection for bathroom appliances is safer than forcing the user to improvise. Whitis ( talk) 05:43, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
== By the way, are such statements about electrocution as "...all executions can be considered to be uncivilized and something to be eliminated." and "...executions are executions, and they're all bad." neutral? The article does say "From this point of view", but the article itself takes these points of view. Would it be better as: "merely the subjective impression of witnesses. It makes no difference whether the execution looks grisley or not. The only consideration in an execution is that very rapid and permanent loss of consciousness take place, and the electric chair accomplishes this." ? BlazingKhan ( talk) 23:07, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
The section seems to have a lot of comments that work against each other, or comments that seem to have been added by people with some disagreements. It seems useful for someone who has experience in these areas to go back and clean up some of those sections. 98.212.211.163 ( talk) 02:11, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I altered the format of the article because it didn't appear to make sense, as there was an asterisk in the middle of the text which I was sure was meant to come out as a bullet for a footnote. Then I noticed there was a dangling sentence at the end of the paragraph, which I put in what looks like its proper place. Please check these changes, especially if you were the one who added the text in the first place. Here is the new version of the changes I made:
The source used to make the claim that dry skin has a resistance of 10,000 Ohm (from which point to which?) is this physics 101 course from Arizona State University. Aside from being non-specific (resistance must be measured between specific points on the body, and will vary depending on this), it is also incompatible with what is claimed by most other sources - for example, National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health gives a figure of 100,000 Ohm for resistance between different extremities in this official publication.
If the latter source is to be trusted - and it probably should, as even trivial experimentation with a meter can confirm that dry skin resistance between extremities is usually far above the conservative 100,000 Ohm even for large skin-conductor contact surfaces - then the voltage figures given in the following table for "dry skin" should be multiplied by 10.
Joules is the unit you're looking for. Energy = Power * time, Power = Voltage * current, Voltage = Current * Resistance. We can break this down to E = RI^2*t. As you can see if your theory is correct it'd still be affected largely by current. I disagree with it however as if the current is high enough to hurt you then it hurts you instantly. The pain doesn't build up as you wait. If this was true you could electrocute yourself with a 9v battery given a few minutes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.211.76.57 ( talk) 09:17, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
Im playing here with a a reactor for one fluorescent lamp (220V 36/40W) and a 9V battery, i place the 2 cables on the poles of the battery with my fingers touching them to give me a electric shock and sometimes it gives a stronger shock. Can that be dangerous (kill me)? 189.28.219.198 ( talk) 23:54, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
I've added the how-to template due to, what sounds like, advice throughout the section:
I dispute the contents of this whole page. Being involved with electric shock research for the past 8/9 years having 13 books about electrical Shock injury such as Electrical Stimulation and Electropathology by J. Patrick Reilly and Electrical Trauma: The Pathophysiology, Manifestations and Clinical Management by R.C Lee (who I have met)E.G. Cravalho andJ.F. Burke and I have over 30,000 medical and legal reports about the subject. However I am not able to do all the editing of this page myself as I suffer from brain injury and have poor grammar skills. However I would like to help by giving you my website where you can find a lot of good ideas. http://electricshock.thruhere.net/index.html Shocksurvivor ( talk) 12:09, 9 November 2008 (UTC) Shocksurvivor ( talk) 12:11, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
The article says: "AC tends to cause continuous muscular contractions that make the victim hold on to a live conductor, thereby increasing the risk of deep tissue burns. On the other hand, mains-magnitude DC tends to interfere more with the heart's electrical pacemaker, leading to an increased risk of fibrillation." Well, I'm no expert on this subject, but isn't it the other way around? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.101.16.26 ( talk) 12:15, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
I was shocked very badley while wet and standing in water trying to unplug the dryer I had a drill in my hand it was horrific/ This was last night. So I didn't die, however I am experiencing shocking pain vertigom breathlessness, etc. Now I am getting ringing in my ears. nerve pain and more. Do I go to the er or ride this out. Help! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.117.114.64 ( talk) 23:12, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
needs some
IMO the page should be moved to Electrical injury the more common term. Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 06:28, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
Problems with citation 10 (it is actually missing). Unfortunately it's the most important citation in this article. 79.35.81.160 ( talk) 22:47, 17 December 2010 (UTC) M.
I've moved potentially dangerous unsourced info below. Please find citations for them before reinserting.
1) Current (the higher the current, the more likely it is lethal - current NOT voltage kills dubious )
4) Frequency (maximum lethality unfortunately occurs at 50 to 60 Hz, both DC dubious and higher frequencies are safer than the mains)
DC tends to cause continuous muscular contractions that make the victim hold on to a live conductor, thereby increasing the risk of deep tissue burns. On the other hand, mains-magnitude AC tends to interfere more with the heart's electrical pacemaker, leading to an increased risk of fibrillation. AC at higher frequencies holds a different mixture of hazards, such as RF burns and the possibility of tissue damage with no immediate sensation of pain. A common misconception is that higher frequency AC current tends to run along the skin rather than penetrating and touching vital organs such as the heart due to the skin effect. This is false, as the human body has far too high a resistance for this effect to occur. While there will be severe burn damage at higher frequencies, it is normally not fatal.
- Temporal User ( Talk) 12:31, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
Egh0st ( talk) 07:57, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
Since the data in the current version looks rather incomplete and sometimes plain wrong, I actually did try to dig the reputable article out on skin resistance in various circumstances (different area of contact, dry/wet, AC/DC etc).
In my honest opinion, http://www.vias.org/feee/safety_05.html is the best article. Most other results on google just copypasting various figures like (500,000 to 500 Ohms subject to condition, which is not enough on quantitative side). Data from this one imo should be included in the article.
Egh0st ( talk) 07:53, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
I propose that Electrocution be merged into Electric shock. The Electrocution article is a stub at the moment and the content would better fit in Electric shock and it would be more easily explained. The Electrocution article is a small article and the merging will not cause any problems as far as article size is concerned. CJ Drop me a line! • Contribs 09:23, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Pathophysiology
or what I think should be under the voltage title
I fixed this up a bit. The topic had already been addressed higher in the article. S B H arris 00:21, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
There is absolutely no support for this statement. There is no citation, no news articles on Google, and Guinness does not list him on their website. Whoever posted this got a good laugh for a while, but it should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.118.1.225 ( talk) 01:03, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
A topic which this article doesn't touch on is the lack of painful shock when the body is subjected to electric current of high enough (RF) frequency. This has apparently been experienced by Tesla coil fanatics, who allow the radio frequency streamers from these devices, at hundreds of thousands of volts, to pass through their body without experiencing shocks. Around the turn of the century, there was a whole field of quack medicine called electrotherapy, pioneered by Paul Oudin and Jacques d'Arsonval in which high voltage RF current from Tesla coils was applied to the body for therapeutic purposes ( Thomas Curtis (1916) High Frequency Apparatus, p.6). The lack of pain is well documented in these sources, where it is speculated that alternating current with frequency above about 15 kHz changes direction too rapidly to allow the nerve membrane to depolarize, so it doesn't trigger nerves and muscles. But I can't find anything about this effect in modern sources. Does anyone know about this? -- Chetvorno TALK 21:17, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
This page should be titled Human electric shock and not Electric shock.
I am a wildlife biologist and the page name confused me. All of the material is about humans. 76.126.49.228 ( talk) 07:26, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
The article mentions in passing that electric shocks can propel the victim away from the source of electricity:
"while not delivering enough initial energy to propel the person away from the source"
but never mentions this again, and nor does it explain the mechanism of action of said propulsion. This is an omission which should be rectified.-- greenrd ( talk) 22:03, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Whack! You've been whacked with a wet trout. Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know that you did something silly. |
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It is a matter of annoyance to me that people say things like "It's not the volts, it's the amps that kill you." Seeing something like:
points out, I think, a great deal of confusion in this matter. Line current is not important; the current through your body is important. Line voltage is important, as it in part determines the current through your body.
I don't really know how to fix this article so it is factual, but doesn't rely too heavily on explanations of Ohm's law, etc. I also don't think it should look like a compromise between the "voltage" and "current camps", since there aren't really two points of view here. Idea? [[User:CyborgTosser| CyborgTosser ( Only half the battle)]] 23:38, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Upon further review, I'm not sure about a lot of the information here. For example, most other sources I find list currents about 10 times here for each of the effects (about 10-15mA for unable to let go of wires, hundreds of mA for fribulation). And to say that the voltages in homes are a deadly combination seems a bit alarmist. I'm going to do some more research before touching this one. [[User:CyborgTosser| CyborgTosser ( Only half the battle)]] 00:01, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Since mains current is AC, though, it cannot cause your muscles to contract. The alternating polarity will cancel out and you won't hang on. A strong DC current can make your muscles contract around the electrical source. Adam850 09:23, 26 January 2005 (UTC)
That's false. AC certainly can cause contraction of muscles. Muscles aren't motors, and the way in which electricity disrupts normal neuromotor control isn't a matter of superposition. -- Blair P. Houghton 04:26, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I removed the dispute notice as no one has edited this article or said anything on the talk page for weeks and weeks. If anyone still has a problem with the facts as presented in this article, take the usual NPOV approach and cite sources to support the sides of the argument as presented by various schools of thought on the matter. — Trilobite (Talk) 19:40, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Hmmm, the main page here is a typical Wikipedia page where figures are quoted and even referenced, but the average reader is left none the wiser as to the truth of the matter.
Here is my layman's understanding of this, written in simplistic terms.
The most basic "unit" of electricity is "charge". Imagine the charge unit is a ball. The dangers associated with this ball are dependent on two things:
1. How hard the ball is.
2. How fast the ball is moving.
By extending this metaphor to an electrical charge unit:
1. The "hardness" of the ball is analogous to the "energy" of the charge unit - it's voltage (V).
2. The "speed" of the ball is analogous to the "flow" of the charge unit - it's current (A).
Now, a very hard ball (ie, high energy charge unit) might do you no harm at all if it moves towards you very very slowly (ie, with very low current)
A very soft ball (ie, a very low energy charge unit) might do you no harm at all even if propelled towards you at high speed (ie, with high current)
So really the dangers associated with our "ball" (charge unit) are a combination of these two factors: "hardness" (voltage/energy) and "speed" (current). Therefore it is the ELECTRICAL POWER of the charge unit that determines it's lethality or otherwise, because:
electrical power (measured in watts) = electrical energy per charge unit(measured in volts) x electrical current (measured in amperes)
Threfore it is not really the level of voltage or current alone that is lethal, but the level of electical POWER ("wattage" if you like) that determines lethality.
That is my layman's take on this. Feel free to disagree and comment. I will not be making changes to the main page. John2o2o2o ( talk) 14:32, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
Isn't it a bit POV to claim that throughout the world 'the Chair' is viewed as 'inhumane'? Isn't it rather the case that it's gruesome and sickening to watch (a rather different point). There is quite a bit of evidence (see Dr Grandin's animal husbandry web site) that an electric current of an amp or two is an efficient way of inducing unconsciousness in a large mammal, provided the current path is through the brain. (There was also at least one 19th century US medic who self-experimented (!) on the level of current sufficient to induce unconsciousness) 80.177.213.144
True (well more or less - though it wasn't the reason we in the UK abolished the penalty many, many years ago) - but in the present context, irrelevant :-) 80.177.213.144
The 100 to 200 mA region for fibrillation agrees with my best recollection (ARRL handbook in days of valves/tubes?), but where's the evidence that such fibrillation 'tears the tissue' and 'destroys the heart' - I though the whole point about fibrillation was that it _could_ be stopped, by a large electric shock, from a defibrillator - though of course time is of the essence, because a heart in fibrillation pumps no blood. Linuxlad 01:55, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
I would like this article to define electrocution as how many amps/volts pass through the heart.
If you're asking how many "amps/volts" it takes to cause death, the answer is... it depends. The number varies with the individual person. LadyPlural ( talk) 22:57, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Breaing in mind we only respond to the current, why is it that hv shocks tend to hurt (sting) more but low voltage ones tend to 'shock' you more(ie take your breath away)?? Or is it just me? Any answers/ sugesstions?-- Light current 02:58, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
Could be that the bad shcocks Ive had have been from 240v from left hand to leg (or left hand to right hand) and those are very shocking! They take your breath away. Its also possible that these mains shocks are longer in duration than you might get from a HV capcitor of a few pF. THe HV shocks are probably limited to much less current, and if they do not pass thro the chest, just tend to sting the entrance / exit points. Maybe we need to mention also the max safe amount of stored energy. I think its 2J.-- Light current 18:59, 3 November 2005 (UTC)
I just hooked up an ohm meter to my body and it showed me these results:
Body Area | Impedance |
---|---|
Face | 1.5 Mega Ohm |
Balls | 2.5 Mega Ohm |
Organ (the non-musical kind) |
3.5 Mega Ohm |
Thighs | 3.0 Mega Ohm |
Fingers | 2.5 Mega Ohm |
Soles | 4.5 Mega Ohm |
Feet | 20 Mega Ohm to over 200 Mega Ohm (fluctuates constantly) |
This data is not made up, I really did conduct this experiment just now. According to these numbers and using Ohm's law, how much current would the body be capable of letting through? Also, can someone verify these numbers? Caution: This should only be done by grown ups and NO CHILDREN. Thanks!
There isn't much point in 'verifying' the numbers. Try it again on a different day or using smooth and then rough electrodes or on skin recently washed with soap and then after washing with detergent or with a different test current or varying a multitude of other factors. The numbers will vary. The test with different test current illustrates that the body is not an ohmic material. The most important point is that the source voltage is not a useful guide to the degree of risk. The current that flows is a very rough guide, though the effects vary in an individual over a wide range unless the conditions are very carefully controlled. Controlled conditions are of course not available (except perhaps to an executioner or torturer) so one should treat any voltage over 24 volts as though it is potentially lethal. Electric shock is not the only hazard, even lower voltages can be dangerous if they cause arcing or heating. treesmill 00:55, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Body Area | Impedance (ohm) |
---|---|
Between two fingers after licking them | Ohm meter consistently begins reading at 50K, and continues to rise to 170K (after which I stopped measuring). Meter was still rising when I stopped taking the measurement. |
Between two uninsulated metal objects that I'm holding in wet licked fingers | Ohm meter begins at 130K, and continues to rise to 180K (after which I stopped measuring). Meter was still rising when I stopped taking the measurement. |
Between upper & lower lip after wetting them with my tongue | 25K |
This is very cool. Especially interesting is the 25K Ohm reading between my wet lips. My faith in the veracity of this article is restored. And I really appreciate your input!
I shall now go back to playing Grand_Theft_Auto_III (man, I love that game!!!).
This is all assuming the body is a simple resistor though. The figures actually make it non-linear with respect to voltage, in the same way as other insulators or semiconductors - see this link which I found off Google. So the impedance at 110V is much less than the impedance at 1.5V, and as a result the effects are going to be more severe than your measurements suggest.
So everyone here is getting dry skin measurement way above 200k, yet, the article calls out 10k. And, with no citations! WTF? Also, the article states as low as 1k. From what I'm hearing in the discussion, you need to pierce the skin. Is there any data on the distribution of resistance across population under controlled conditions?
Update: Saw the ePanorama link. I hadn't even considered contact area (assumed <1cm2). Question for the Australian Standard AS3859-1991, who is going to have 100cm2 of contact area?
Update2: I have heard that current flow through skin causes perspiration. Is this true? Could that explain the changes in resistance (higher current, more perspiration)? The footnotes state that the resistance at low voltage halves in the presence of conductive solutions.
Also, who touched 1000V with a large contact area, and long enough to make a measurement? Eet 1024 ( talk) 00:57, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
The resistance values in the article are ridiculously low every value i've ever taken has been in the megaohms. And consequently so are the claims that 32V can kill you. maybe if you plugged the terminals directly into your veins or something but def not through the skin. I work on electrocution circuits for a security company as a part-time job. The circuits we develop give out 10kV pulses and def won't kill you. The police tasers normally do 30kV - 50kV and have never killed anyone (not in this country anyway).
As for those values taken with wet lips etc you aren't measuring the resistance through your skin your just measuring it through the moisture on the surface of ur skin to another point on the surface. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.211.76.57 ( talk) 10:31, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
I was looking for resistivity of through the skin not over the skin when I came across this page. Firstly the version I saw the had wrong units. (Ohm/cm^2) so I have removed it. But this is not a specific measurement and will depend on how far apart the electrodes were what was the contact area. Need a better reference. I will return to this page if I find something useful —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.1.43.172 ( talk) 14:46, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
I am moving the following edit by 59.93.33.95 from the main article to here:
(The the answer for the question "How we are getting electric shock from independent voltage sources?" such as an unearthed generator unit or LPG ignitor etc are still unexplained)
In theory, to get a shock form an un-earthed (ungrounded) voltage source, you must touch both ends. However high frequency sources, such as a spark generator, will often have enough capacitative coupling to earth to cause a shock. Also a source of charge, such as lightning or a charged high-voltage capacitor, can produce a single-ended shock. Finally, one should never rely on the assumption that a particular generator is un-earthed, but always turn it off or disconnect from it before working on circuits.-- agr 15:24, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
There are also induced currents in conductors, where an electromagnetic field is changing parallel to the line, such as a crossing power line, EMP from lightning or other sources (such as arc welders), or even geomagnetic impulses from a CME striking the Earth's magnetic field. That has caused significant fires, such as from one nuclear test in the former USSR and in telegraphs having their paper catch fire in the later 1800's. All of which is found on Wikipedia. Wzrd1 ( talk) 03:41, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
I don't think that ECT qualifies as a "disputed" therapy. It does have many detractors, but is very widely used and generally accepted by psychiatrists, so far as I can tell. People can read the article on the treatment itself for a full idea of the merits of the debate. If you disagree, feel free to add the qualifier back in, and explain yourself here. Mgcsinc 12:41, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
--try @least 2 places in the U.S that use ECT as a punishment. If you refuse to shower in the brown water that the bad neglected piping system in the building produces ...they zap ya. MPC, better known as Manhattan Psychiatric Cener is the culprit.
Please don't record my IP because they may say i'm crazy for telling the truth and put me in there. But truly, i wonder where the money they get from the state goes?
Thorn2myenemies ( talk) 22:08, 12 April 2010 (UTC)thorn.
The article sub-section heading "Electroconvulsive therapy" is inappropriate for the whole sub-section - I've changed it to "Medical uses", with "Electroconvulsive therapy" as one of these uses.
Bricaniwi (
talk) 08:56, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
"However, death has occurred from supplies as low as 32 volts." Is there a source for this information? Is the 32 volts AC (or DC)? If so, what's the corresponding lethal voltage for DC (or AC)? Calbaer 01:27, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
So what are the typical effects of getting electrocuted from common household appliances (like touching a socket)? Does a person need CPR and go to the hospital, or does he/she just “come to” after a while? QuizQuick 17:56, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Electrocution can also mean just to cause injury by electric shock - look at a dictionary not wikipedia. I've been knocked out by electrocution twice and both times it was quite fast I was concious again a few seconds after hitting the ground. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.211.76.57 ( talk) 10:44, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
I've personally "been lit up" more than a few times, either carelessness, bad insulation of a live circuit, either way, I've had a number of times I have taken significant current. ONE time, I'm QUITE certain, in retrospect, that my heart was stopped for a second or so. It was more a sensation of something missing in sensation (heartbeat). And the circuit designer telling me that I drew over three amps from one arm to the other, with a 27KV, low current source, riding on a 130 volt DC source, which destroyed said power supply. I was confused beyond the norm for getting a 27 KV hit. I was disoriented. I'm very rarely disoriented. Then, I felt that odd sensation disappear with a thump in my chest and general weakness from a rather severe shock (lactic acid excess in the muscles). From my EMT-P training, it seems that my heart was either flat lined or in some form of fibrillation, then an escape beat corrected the pattern for me to discuss it today. :) I've also personally observed it in a patient when a lightning strike hit the covered bleachers at a military rifle range that was occupied by troops awaiting transport away from the electrical storm. One man was down, no pulse. CPR was initiated promptly. An ambulance arrived and we helped hook the patient up to the ECG. CPR was halted for that, due to the location and some other mechanical issues of the scene. As we were observing PEA on the monitor, a massive escape beat occurred and somewhat normal QRS pattern ensued (a few oddities that are consistent with acidosis from prolonged time without circulation). Floored all of us present! Said patient was hospitalized for a day, then released. That said, it's all OR for those cases. And I'd NOT hope that my heart, with its dozens of pacers, could restart itself in an emergency after I was severely shocked. But, the heart IS well documented to be able to restore a normal or as near normal as possible pattern after significant events happen. But then, there's the kid that gets hit in the chest by a baseball. So, we don't take chances. Wzrd1 ( talk) 03:56, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
If an electrified object is dropped into water, how far do the effects extend to? Say an electric wire fell into a stream at one end…how far away would a person in the water have to be to be clear of the danger? QuizQuick 18:08, 15 August 2006 (UTC) anyone?
When I started my electrical apprenticeship I was told one very important thing to do when applying first aid to an electric shock victim.
You should aways tap some of their bare skin with the back of your hand. If they are still electrically live, your hand and arm will contract away from the danger. Blaab 08:30, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
I will go with what I was told by an old industrial electronics tech, kick the SOB clear. DO NOT TOUCH. If you don't have a board or other non-conductive item and MUST, kick them. Once you touch, you're in an embrace that could give you eternity in a way that you'd prefer to avoid. Wzrd1 ( talk) 04:01, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
Apart from severe beatings, electric shock torture is the favourite method of the modern torturer. It leaves few visible signs on the victim's body, yet leaves a lasting impression on their mind. The fact that victims are strapped down, naked, during the torture, does not by it self, explain the sexual overtone to torture by electricity. Rather it is clear that this world's torturers actively seek up the sexual organs when applying the electricity to a victims body. Using the electrode like a substitute penis, the torturer humiliates his victim by penetrating his or her's erotic zones to great effect. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.60.195.137 ( talk • contribs).
Electrical shocks to the "erotic zones" isn't sexual. "Erotic zones" are called that for one reason, LOADED with nerve endings. So, electrical stimulation REALLY lets the victim know that the torturer is interested in whatever said torturer is interested in. NOT an opinion, but the source information is rather classified. There are declassed versions around somewhere, but it's late... Wzrd1 ( talk) 04:05, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
Can electrocution kill you instantly, or do you die slowly?
Um, why is there detailed and intricate description of electrical torture on both this talk page and in the actual article? That is disturbing and fulfills no knowledge except that of the dark thoughts of a sadist. No one wants to know a subjective account of the details of torturing someone with electricity. Remove the subjective account of electrical torture. Write that in your diary instead, and also reflect on how you would feel being the electrocuted one. Most forms of sadism do not utilize empathy as it deeply disturbs them and reveals their own fantasies as evil. Samhebert12 ( talk) 13:44, 21 May 2019 (UTC)
I have been looking through literature for information on the role of the frequency in the lethality of an electric shock. I am doing this as part of some research into what I suspect is an urban myth: that 60Hz is more deadly than 50Hz with all other factors being the same. Can anyone provide some input on this? -- rxnd ( t | € | c ) 14:17, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
It is possible to read through the instructions and never call an ambulance! How? The rescuer is instructed to resuscitate the victom if he has first aid knowledge. If the victom is dead the victom will never be resusciated so the rescuer won't move on to the call the ambulance step. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.194.119.148 ( talk) 01:10, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
If someone who is reading English Wikipedia about this hasn't seen even ONE show with CPR, they must be that living under a rock guy in a certain insurance commercial. Even a 80+ woman knew it, using a plunger, as she couldn't bend enough to help her husband knew it (a new device has been patented, based upon that). Wzrd1 ( talk) 04:09, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
"It is possible to have a voltage potential between neutral wires and ground in the event of an improperly wired (disconnected) neutral, or if it is part of certain obsolete (and now illegal[citation needed]) switch circuits."
I can give an example from personal experience that is relevant to this text. At the top and bottom of a stairwell, there were lights operated by three way switches such that either light could be operated individually from the top or bottom (two switches in each location). The two lights were on separate breakers. The top light took its hot from the upstairs circuit and the bottom light from the downstairs circuit. The dangerous part was that the top light completed its circuit through the downstairs wiring and the bottom light through the upstairs wiring such that even though the downstairs circuit breaker was turned off and the downstairs light did not illuminate and even tested dead with an multi-meter, live power was present downstairs (presumably through the filament of the upstairs light) when the downstairs light fixture was removed for replacement and I got sparks when I disconnected one of the wirenuts. Instead of running 4 wires up/down the stairwell they needed to run 6 but they took a short cut. To complicate matters, they apparently switched the neutral side of the lights instead of hot (a bad practice that means you can be electrocuted changing a light bulb even though the switch is off). Thus, when I disconnected the neutral? wire nut at the downstairs fixture, the current from the upstairs light had nowhere to go except through the air (or me). Three way switches are prone to unsafe wiring because they often run a significant distance and opposite ends may be in different power domains. Thus it is tempting to save the cost of two extra wires, or because they didn't realize they needed two extra wires until after drywall was installed, to complete part of the circuit through the wrong power domain. I can't tell you what the laws are over time but this was one of several unsafe wiring practices used by the original contractor that built that housing development. The other unsafe practices resulted in many fires. One was the use of aluminum wire with fixtures that were not designed for aluminum. Another was backwiring (aluminum wire, even), and the third was that power to the entire first floor lighting circuit was routed up from the basement circuit breaker panel through an exterior moisture prone outlet (dumb, dumb, dumb). At least some of these practices were legal at the time and at least some of them are illegal now. One should always be aware when working on electrical circuits that bad wiring practices may result in live power where you would not expect it, even where it has previously been tested to be absent. Some of these examples also illustrate that unsafe wiring practices combined together, can be far more unsafe than the practices by themselves. 67.76.175.5 ( talk) 04:58, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
The practice in some areas, mentioned in the main article, of prohibiting electric outlets in bathrooms may prove detrimental to safety. There are a number of small appliances that are commonly used in bathrooms including electric toothbrushes, electric razors, hair dryers, portable heaters, and sometimes ultrasonic denture cleaners, radios, televisions, and telephones (with wall warts). The lack of outlets may result in the use of extension cords to non-GFI protected outlets in other rooms and which may also be more susceptible to moisture (a fire hazard), given their construction and location, than built in outlets. Use of a GFI protected outlet in the bathroom is safer than an extension cord to a non-GFI protected outlet in another room. Thus requiring GFI protected outlets may be safer than prohibiting outlets given that people in developed countries are going to use electrical appliances anyway. Providing a safe location for most of these appliances, such as a shelf with drainage located slightly lower than the wash basin/vanity with some clearance for drips and overflow. that reduces the likelyhood of overturning into a sink or tub would be an additional safety measure. In addition to the electrocution hazard, moisture in bathrooms provides a potential for electrical connections to deteriorate and this hazard is present in the electric lighting and heating fixtures that may be present in a bathroom whether or not outlets are allowed and this problem is exacerbated by heat in light or heating fixtures. The use of portable heaters is a special concern from a fire hazard perspective since they are high current appliances that may accidently be left on and bathroom circuits, or the heater itself, may be adversely affected by moisture, and unlike built in heaters, they may not be designed for use in a moist environment. Augmenting GFI outlets and light fixtures for bathrooms with a thermal cutoff would provide some protection against moisture induced resistive contacts. Designing in a safe location and point of connection for bathroom appliances is safer than forcing the user to improvise. Whitis ( talk) 05:43, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
== By the way, are such statements about electrocution as "...all executions can be considered to be uncivilized and something to be eliminated." and "...executions are executions, and they're all bad." neutral? The article does say "From this point of view", but the article itself takes these points of view. Would it be better as: "merely the subjective impression of witnesses. It makes no difference whether the execution looks grisley or not. The only consideration in an execution is that very rapid and permanent loss of consciousness take place, and the electric chair accomplishes this." ? BlazingKhan ( talk) 23:07, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
The section seems to have a lot of comments that work against each other, or comments that seem to have been added by people with some disagreements. It seems useful for someone who has experience in these areas to go back and clean up some of those sections. 98.212.211.163 ( talk) 02:11, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
I altered the format of the article because it didn't appear to make sense, as there was an asterisk in the middle of the text which I was sure was meant to come out as a bullet for a footnote. Then I noticed there was a dangling sentence at the end of the paragraph, which I put in what looks like its proper place. Please check these changes, especially if you were the one who added the text in the first place. Here is the new version of the changes I made:
The source used to make the claim that dry skin has a resistance of 10,000 Ohm (from which point to which?) is this physics 101 course from Arizona State University. Aside from being non-specific (resistance must be measured between specific points on the body, and will vary depending on this), it is also incompatible with what is claimed by most other sources - for example, National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health gives a figure of 100,000 Ohm for resistance between different extremities in this official publication.
If the latter source is to be trusted - and it probably should, as even trivial experimentation with a meter can confirm that dry skin resistance between extremities is usually far above the conservative 100,000 Ohm even for large skin-conductor contact surfaces - then the voltage figures given in the following table for "dry skin" should be multiplied by 10.
Joules is the unit you're looking for. Energy = Power * time, Power = Voltage * current, Voltage = Current * Resistance. We can break this down to E = RI^2*t. As you can see if your theory is correct it'd still be affected largely by current. I disagree with it however as if the current is high enough to hurt you then it hurts you instantly. The pain doesn't build up as you wait. If this was true you could electrocute yourself with a 9v battery given a few minutes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.211.76.57 ( talk) 09:17, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
Im playing here with a a reactor for one fluorescent lamp (220V 36/40W) and a 9V battery, i place the 2 cables on the poles of the battery with my fingers touching them to give me a electric shock and sometimes it gives a stronger shock. Can that be dangerous (kill me)? 189.28.219.198 ( talk) 23:54, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
I've added the how-to template due to, what sounds like, advice throughout the section:
I dispute the contents of this whole page. Being involved with electric shock research for the past 8/9 years having 13 books about electrical Shock injury such as Electrical Stimulation and Electropathology by J. Patrick Reilly and Electrical Trauma: The Pathophysiology, Manifestations and Clinical Management by R.C Lee (who I have met)E.G. Cravalho andJ.F. Burke and I have over 30,000 medical and legal reports about the subject. However I am not able to do all the editing of this page myself as I suffer from brain injury and have poor grammar skills. However I would like to help by giving you my website where you can find a lot of good ideas. http://electricshock.thruhere.net/index.html Shocksurvivor ( talk) 12:09, 9 November 2008 (UTC) Shocksurvivor ( talk) 12:11, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
The article says: "AC tends to cause continuous muscular contractions that make the victim hold on to a live conductor, thereby increasing the risk of deep tissue burns. On the other hand, mains-magnitude DC tends to interfere more with the heart's electrical pacemaker, leading to an increased risk of fibrillation." Well, I'm no expert on this subject, but isn't it the other way around? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.101.16.26 ( talk) 12:15, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
I was shocked very badley while wet and standing in water trying to unplug the dryer I had a drill in my hand it was horrific/ This was last night. So I didn't die, however I am experiencing shocking pain vertigom breathlessness, etc. Now I am getting ringing in my ears. nerve pain and more. Do I go to the er or ride this out. Help! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.117.114.64 ( talk) 23:12, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
needs some
IMO the page should be moved to Electrical injury the more common term. Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 06:28, 7 August 2010 (UTC)
Problems with citation 10 (it is actually missing). Unfortunately it's the most important citation in this article. 79.35.81.160 ( talk) 22:47, 17 December 2010 (UTC) M.
I've moved potentially dangerous unsourced info below. Please find citations for them before reinserting.
1) Current (the higher the current, the more likely it is lethal - current NOT voltage kills dubious )
4) Frequency (maximum lethality unfortunately occurs at 50 to 60 Hz, both DC dubious and higher frequencies are safer than the mains)
DC tends to cause continuous muscular contractions that make the victim hold on to a live conductor, thereby increasing the risk of deep tissue burns. On the other hand, mains-magnitude AC tends to interfere more with the heart's electrical pacemaker, leading to an increased risk of fibrillation. AC at higher frequencies holds a different mixture of hazards, such as RF burns and the possibility of tissue damage with no immediate sensation of pain. A common misconception is that higher frequency AC current tends to run along the skin rather than penetrating and touching vital organs such as the heart due to the skin effect. This is false, as the human body has far too high a resistance for this effect to occur. While there will be severe burn damage at higher frequencies, it is normally not fatal.
- Temporal User ( Talk) 12:31, 19 January 2011 (UTC)
Egh0st ( talk) 07:57, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
Since the data in the current version looks rather incomplete and sometimes plain wrong, I actually did try to dig the reputable article out on skin resistance in various circumstances (different area of contact, dry/wet, AC/DC etc).
In my honest opinion, http://www.vias.org/feee/safety_05.html is the best article. Most other results on google just copypasting various figures like (500,000 to 500 Ohms subject to condition, which is not enough on quantitative side). Data from this one imo should be included in the article.
Egh0st ( talk) 07:53, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
I propose that Electrocution be merged into Electric shock. The Electrocution article is a stub at the moment and the content would better fit in Electric shock and it would be more easily explained. The Electrocution article is a small article and the merging will not cause any problems as far as article size is concerned. CJ Drop me a line! • Contribs 09:23, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Pathophysiology
or what I think should be under the voltage title
I fixed this up a bit. The topic had already been addressed higher in the article. S B H arris 00:21, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
There is absolutely no support for this statement. There is no citation, no news articles on Google, and Guinness does not list him on their website. Whoever posted this got a good laugh for a while, but it should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.118.1.225 ( talk) 01:03, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
A topic which this article doesn't touch on is the lack of painful shock when the body is subjected to electric current of high enough (RF) frequency. This has apparently been experienced by Tesla coil fanatics, who allow the radio frequency streamers from these devices, at hundreds of thousands of volts, to pass through their body without experiencing shocks. Around the turn of the century, there was a whole field of quack medicine called electrotherapy, pioneered by Paul Oudin and Jacques d'Arsonval in which high voltage RF current from Tesla coils was applied to the body for therapeutic purposes ( Thomas Curtis (1916) High Frequency Apparatus, p.6). The lack of pain is well documented in these sources, where it is speculated that alternating current with frequency above about 15 kHz changes direction too rapidly to allow the nerve membrane to depolarize, so it doesn't trigger nerves and muscles. But I can't find anything about this effect in modern sources. Does anyone know about this? -- Chetvorno TALK 21:17, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
This page should be titled Human electric shock and not Electric shock.
I am a wildlife biologist and the page name confused me. All of the material is about humans. 76.126.49.228 ( talk) 07:26, 29 June 2014 (UTC)
The article mentions in passing that electric shocks can propel the victim away from the source of electricity:
"while not delivering enough initial energy to propel the person away from the source"
but never mentions this again, and nor does it explain the mechanism of action of said propulsion. This is an omission which should be rectified.-- greenrd ( talk) 22:03, 27 December 2014 (UTC)
Whack! You've been whacked with a wet trout. Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know that you did something silly. |
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