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In 1945 Elbing was taken over by Poland, the native inhabitants were expelled and replaced by Poles. The city was renamed Elblag. After the fall of the Iron Curtain there is a small minority of original Elbinger inhabitants in Elbing/Elblag? today, who are now allowed to speak their native language and use their none-Polish names once again.
What a mess. I have made the following stab at clarifying and NPOVing this paragraph:
1. The "Elbing/Elblag" construction has been resolved to just "Elblag". The sentence containing it refers to post-1945, when the city was no longer named Elbing -- referring to it as so is disingenuous.
2. There's a logical contradiction in the final clause. If the "original Elbinger"s (more on that in a second) were expelled from Poland, the Polish government were obviously not in a position to keep them from speaking German. One or the other could have happened -- I assumed it was the expulsion.
3. "Original Elbinger" is also disingenuous. The city was founded in the 13th century, hence I would imagine all the "original" inhabitants died sometime before 1300 AD. Replaced with "the city's German-speaking inhabitants."
-- Paul Drye
For church records filmed by the LDS Latter Day Saints , Utah for Elbing, Westprussia, Prussia, Germany http://www.familysearch.com
Topic Germany, Preußen, Westpreußen, Elbing - Church records
Titles
Kirchenbuch, 1625-1946 / Evangelische Kirche Sankt Annen Elbing
Kirchenbuch, 1622-1827 / Evangelische Kirche Heiliger Leichnam Elbing
Kirchenbuch, 1626-1831 / Evangelische Kirche Sankt Paulus Elbing
Kirchenbuch, 1577-1816 / Evangelische Kirche Heilige Drei Könige Elbing
Kirchenbuch, 1604-1877 / Evangelische Kirche. Sankt Marien Hauptkirche Elbing
Kirchenbuch, 1642-1881 / Katholische Kirche Sankt Nikolai Elbing
Kirchenbuch, 1744-1942 / Mennoniten Gemeinde Elbing
Kirchenbuch, 1746-1809 / Preußen. Armee. Infanterie Regiment 04
Kirchenbuch, 1746-1868 / Preußen. Armee. Infanterie Regiment 14
Kirchenbuch, 1746-1920 / Evangelische Kirche. Militärgemeinde Elbing
Kirchenbuch, 1871-1945 / Katholisch-Apostolische Gemeinde Elbing
Kirchenbuch, 1840-1925 / Baptisten Gemeinde Elbing
Record of members, 1900-1923 / Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Königsberg Branch (Ostpreußen)
Record of members, 1901-1913 / Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Stolp Branch (Pommern)
Record of members, 1901-1930 / Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Elbing Branch (Westpreußen)
© 2000 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Original Elbinger are some citizens of Elbing, remaining in Eilbing after it was changed to Elblag by Poland . After the Iron Curtain fell, the Germans in Poland have minority right now,
They have been able to restore their German names, The Elbinger German minority have a Elbing
newspaper .
Besides, Poland had to sign a treaty, allowing German language to the Autochtones again. Maps in Europe are in both languages Danzig/Gdanzk Elbing /Elblag etc. user:H.J.
Can I point out that there is no evidence for such a place as Old Prussi Land, in the sense of anythig besides "here lie dragons" on any map? It's just part of some nationalist ideal to give Prussia some proto-national roots, and fits in with Prussian saga literature, which seems to be at least derived, if not downright stolen, from information we have about the Saxons and Friesians before their conversion. If you look at "Old Prussian" the language, it's a Baltic, i.e., SLAVIC language. So even if all of this Old Prussi stuff fits in, it certainly doesn't mesh with a Germanic heritage... JHK
According to most popular theories, Baltic languages are not Slavic language. But of course it has nothing to do with Germanic languages. -- Taw
Ok -- Let me be more specific. Baltic languages and Slavic languages both belong to the Satem stem of Indo-European languages, while the Germanic languages belong to the centum group. As such, Baltic languages aremuch more closely related to Slavic languages (and there is some linguistic argument that they are indeed offshoots, but TAW is correct, accepted theory sees them as two separate sub-groups). My point is that it's totally ridiculous to keep trying to tie the Old Prussians to Germanic roots -- which blows a lot of user:H.J.'s arguments in her "really belongs to Germany, not to Poland/Communist East" entries. JHK
To JHK's totally ridiculous point on language.One only needs to take one look at the different Baltic languages and compare them with Slavic languages.They are completely different, unless you want to say all languages are the same ( the Nostratic Macro family and linguistic Paloeontology ).Northern and Eastern Germans all have Satem pronounciation h=K Ich =ik or ek (ego in Greek). The Satem or as it is nowadays called Indo-Iranian is derived from the ancient Indo-European Armenian-Ashkenazi-Median(Iranian)-Greek-Celtic-Germanic connection , in other words Indo-Europeans coming into Old Europe.And read what it says in the entries, the Baltic language area was once much larger. All along the Baltic Sea to Moscow. Slavs conquered many of there areas starting by 600AD and intensifying after 1000 AD with the greatest territory conquered after 1945 AD.
To Space Cadet,
I don't know what is wrong with Polish names and Polish spelling ?
My reasoning is that if the title of the article is Elblag readers would
like to know how it is properly written in Polish.
Another thing writing Torun (Ger. Thorn) and so on you imply that those
towns are as well Polish as German. They are Polish and they used to be
German, Hanseatic, Free Towns whatever. What do you think ?
I start thinking that it might be good start another article called
Elbing. Perhaps.
If you write Ger. write it in full - this is not paper encyclopedia.
To make things clear I am not a Polish nationalist, far from that.
I just want to give the Polish POV to counteract H.J.
--
Kpjas
It is right, that a seperate history should be written for Elbing. This is exactly, what I had been doning with all the German cities. Then add that since 1945 there is a place called Elblag and start that seperately.
Then people think it is right, that not only the city and country was stolen but now that the history is beeing stolen as well.
So I take all my Elbing history back, that I had input into wiki sofar. The history of Elblag starts in 1945, so write about that. user:H.J.
To JHK , see Old Prussian Language and descriptions of language.H.J.
user:H.J., this needs to stop. You are damaging the project and wasting our time. The city is now Elblag in English. That's what the US and British governments call it. The city's history hasn't changed because the official name has. I have reverted the article, and the Elbing article will be redirected here, as was decided months ago, when Larry worked here. JHK
Could anyone tell me what dialect is that? Kashubian language by any chance? Halibutt 22:40, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)
You mean the name of Elblag in a local Polish dialect. It the dialect of the Polish people living in the vicinity of Elblag, which is usually called Powiśle. The dialect is sometimes called Dialect of Malbork (dialekt malborski) but the natives prefer to call it Dialct of Sztum (dialekt sztumski). It has no direct connection with Cassubian language - Mestwin of Gdansk 01:32, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)
you wrote: "Can I point out that there is no evidence for such a place as Old Prussi Land, in the sense of anythig besides "here lie dragons" on any map? It's just part of some nationalist ideal to give Prussia some proto-national roots, and fits in with Prussian saga literature, which seems to be at least derived, if not downright stolen, from information we have about the Saxons and Friesians before their conversion...."
What exactly are you trying to say here? I agree with your last sentence (which I did not copy above, but I'm not sure what your point about slavic languages and their relation to the polish people now in Elbag...
I replaced some stuff at the beginning as I expanded it a little:
The town of Elbing was founded in 1237 by the
Teutonic Order near the former Truso.
Dave 12:28, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Hello Olessi. I see you are a distinguished editor on central Europe. Thanks for refining some of my changes. I can't say there is anything I want to seriously dispute at the moment. There are a couple of things I would like to mention though. When I first saw the article the introduction was incomprehensible, due to all those strange characters and that list of names. Those things should be in the article for those who take more of an interest in linguistics but it should not take one 20 minutes just to figure out the first sentence. Right at the moment the combination of my edits and yours have resulted in a format that isn't too bad. I notice many editors put such name lists at the end, but as I say, it doesn't look too bad where it is. The section heads serve to prevent confusion.
Second, so you want to call Elbing and Elblag the same city? Now really! Why not call Kaliningrad the same city! Why can't my neighbors here in the states with Germanic names go back to Elbing and visit all their cousins, hey? Let me ask you this. How many of the current citizens of Elblag get together on New year's eve to remember auld lang syne in Elbing?
In any case it seems to me we can go on with this. I can work with you so far, even though my perception is not yours. You can probably look forward to reading me on the other Prussian cities also, as I am interested in Prussia. My interests are more in antiquity but you can't neglect the modern; after all, people live today and not at some other time. Dave 03:38, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
While originally most information contributed to Wikipedia was without references, there definitely is a shift now toward sourcing contributions (see the Notes section of practically all featured articles). While general geographic data might be ok, I still would recommend sourcing it. Historical information (especially regarding the Middle Ages), should always be sourced, in my opinion, even if it is from a different language Wiki. Thanks for the "suggestion" that I might be a partisan editor- it reminds me of User:Lysy's introduction. :)
One thing I would suggest avoid doing is providing too much information here when it could be placed somewhere else. For instance, eventually I want to work on a Prussian Crusade article where the detailed history of the conquest of the Prussians would go, while details about Lübeck rights would be more fitting at Lübeck law than in this article.
Thank you for your enthusiasm for the project and happy editing! Olessi 00:12, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
The Polish external links are interesting and informative I am sure but not too many English-speakers can read them. Can't we just refer them to the Polish Wiki? It contains so much more information for the Polish readers that it seems a shame to make them read English, and the Polish sites aren't much good to the English readers. Dave 03:37, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, that sentence on the Book of Elblag whets the appetite by confusing the reader into a state of puzzlement. Have we any idea what language it is in? I thought the law was the Luebeck Law, according to the article. Anyway how did Prussian law get into Polish common law? And to top it all off I just can't find the Book of Elblag anywhere else besides Wikipedia. Can anyone help inform us non-Poles here? Dave 03:37, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
I think the lead focuses to heavily on the history, not enough on other aspects. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 17:16, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
There is also no reason to italicize former German names of now-Polish localities in the areas given to postwar Poland by the Potsdam Conference. In English, italics usually denote foreign (non-English) words for things or concepts, but not place names. Prior to 1945, Elbląg was officially Elbing, not Elbing, and the German name should not be italicized. Sca ( talk) 17:14, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
I have removed a gratuitous and undocumented reference to the "popularity" of the Nazi Party in Elbing. The Nazis were "popular" in nearly all German cities and towns in then-East Prussia, Danzig and Pomerania during the years just before World War II — mainly because they promised revision of the Versailles Treaty's creation of the Free City of Danzig and what then was commonly known (in Western Europe and the English-speaking world) as the Polish Corridor. Unless some evidence can be shown that the Nazis were particularly or unusually popular in Elbing, this reference is irrelevant, and seemed devised to indirectly blame the residents of old Elbing for what happened to the town in and after 1945. Much larger forces were at play. Sca ( talk) 17:28, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
Some "15th century binoculars" are mentioned. As the telescope only came in in the early 17th century, I am not sure that this is true. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.26.0.42 ( talk) 12:21, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
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The transcription of the Polish name of the city at the beginning of the article is [ˈɛlblɔŋk] (with [k]) but the man in the recording says [ˈɛlblɔŋg] (with [g]). The discrepancy should be resolved in one way or another. S. Valkemirer ( talk) 09:15, 22 September 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Elbląg article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This page is affected by the
Gdańsk (Danzig) Vote. The following rules apply in the case of disputes:
The detailed vote results and the vote itself can be found on Talk:Gdansk/Vote. This vote has ended; please do not vote anymore. Comments and discussions can be added to Talk:Gdansk/Vote/discussion anytime. This template {{ Gdansk-Vote-Notice}} can be added on the talk page of affected articles if necessary. |
In 1945 Elbing was taken over by Poland, the native inhabitants were expelled and replaced by Poles. The city was renamed Elblag. After the fall of the Iron Curtain there is a small minority of original Elbinger inhabitants in Elbing/Elblag? today, who are now allowed to speak their native language and use their none-Polish names once again.
What a mess. I have made the following stab at clarifying and NPOVing this paragraph:
1. The "Elbing/Elblag" construction has been resolved to just "Elblag". The sentence containing it refers to post-1945, when the city was no longer named Elbing -- referring to it as so is disingenuous.
2. There's a logical contradiction in the final clause. If the "original Elbinger"s (more on that in a second) were expelled from Poland, the Polish government were obviously not in a position to keep them from speaking German. One or the other could have happened -- I assumed it was the expulsion.
3. "Original Elbinger" is also disingenuous. The city was founded in the 13th century, hence I would imagine all the "original" inhabitants died sometime before 1300 AD. Replaced with "the city's German-speaking inhabitants."
-- Paul Drye
For church records filmed by the LDS Latter Day Saints , Utah for Elbing, Westprussia, Prussia, Germany http://www.familysearch.com
Topic Germany, Preußen, Westpreußen, Elbing - Church records
Titles
Kirchenbuch, 1625-1946 / Evangelische Kirche Sankt Annen Elbing
Kirchenbuch, 1622-1827 / Evangelische Kirche Heiliger Leichnam Elbing
Kirchenbuch, 1626-1831 / Evangelische Kirche Sankt Paulus Elbing
Kirchenbuch, 1577-1816 / Evangelische Kirche Heilige Drei Könige Elbing
Kirchenbuch, 1604-1877 / Evangelische Kirche. Sankt Marien Hauptkirche Elbing
Kirchenbuch, 1642-1881 / Katholische Kirche Sankt Nikolai Elbing
Kirchenbuch, 1744-1942 / Mennoniten Gemeinde Elbing
Kirchenbuch, 1746-1809 / Preußen. Armee. Infanterie Regiment 04
Kirchenbuch, 1746-1868 / Preußen. Armee. Infanterie Regiment 14
Kirchenbuch, 1746-1920 / Evangelische Kirche. Militärgemeinde Elbing
Kirchenbuch, 1871-1945 / Katholisch-Apostolische Gemeinde Elbing
Kirchenbuch, 1840-1925 / Baptisten Gemeinde Elbing
Record of members, 1900-1923 / Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Königsberg Branch (Ostpreußen)
Record of members, 1901-1913 / Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Stolp Branch (Pommern)
Record of members, 1901-1930 / Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Elbing Branch (Westpreußen)
© 2000 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Original Elbinger are some citizens of Elbing, remaining in Eilbing after it was changed to Elblag by Poland . After the Iron Curtain fell, the Germans in Poland have minority right now,
They have been able to restore their German names, The Elbinger German minority have a Elbing
newspaper .
Besides, Poland had to sign a treaty, allowing German language to the Autochtones again. Maps in Europe are in both languages Danzig/Gdanzk Elbing /Elblag etc. user:H.J.
Can I point out that there is no evidence for such a place as Old Prussi Land, in the sense of anythig besides "here lie dragons" on any map? It's just part of some nationalist ideal to give Prussia some proto-national roots, and fits in with Prussian saga literature, which seems to be at least derived, if not downright stolen, from information we have about the Saxons and Friesians before their conversion. If you look at "Old Prussian" the language, it's a Baltic, i.e., SLAVIC language. So even if all of this Old Prussi stuff fits in, it certainly doesn't mesh with a Germanic heritage... JHK
According to most popular theories, Baltic languages are not Slavic language. But of course it has nothing to do with Germanic languages. -- Taw
Ok -- Let me be more specific. Baltic languages and Slavic languages both belong to the Satem stem of Indo-European languages, while the Germanic languages belong to the centum group. As such, Baltic languages aremuch more closely related to Slavic languages (and there is some linguistic argument that they are indeed offshoots, but TAW is correct, accepted theory sees them as two separate sub-groups). My point is that it's totally ridiculous to keep trying to tie the Old Prussians to Germanic roots -- which blows a lot of user:H.J.'s arguments in her "really belongs to Germany, not to Poland/Communist East" entries. JHK
To JHK's totally ridiculous point on language.One only needs to take one look at the different Baltic languages and compare them with Slavic languages.They are completely different, unless you want to say all languages are the same ( the Nostratic Macro family and linguistic Paloeontology ).Northern and Eastern Germans all have Satem pronounciation h=K Ich =ik or ek (ego in Greek). The Satem or as it is nowadays called Indo-Iranian is derived from the ancient Indo-European Armenian-Ashkenazi-Median(Iranian)-Greek-Celtic-Germanic connection , in other words Indo-Europeans coming into Old Europe.And read what it says in the entries, the Baltic language area was once much larger. All along the Baltic Sea to Moscow. Slavs conquered many of there areas starting by 600AD and intensifying after 1000 AD with the greatest territory conquered after 1945 AD.
To Space Cadet,
I don't know what is wrong with Polish names and Polish spelling ?
My reasoning is that if the title of the article is Elblag readers would
like to know how it is properly written in Polish.
Another thing writing Torun (Ger. Thorn) and so on you imply that those
towns are as well Polish as German. They are Polish and they used to be
German, Hanseatic, Free Towns whatever. What do you think ?
I start thinking that it might be good start another article called
Elbing. Perhaps.
If you write Ger. write it in full - this is not paper encyclopedia.
To make things clear I am not a Polish nationalist, far from that.
I just want to give the Polish POV to counteract H.J.
--
Kpjas
It is right, that a seperate history should be written for Elbing. This is exactly, what I had been doning with all the German cities. Then add that since 1945 there is a place called Elblag and start that seperately.
Then people think it is right, that not only the city and country was stolen but now that the history is beeing stolen as well.
So I take all my Elbing history back, that I had input into wiki sofar. The history of Elblag starts in 1945, so write about that. user:H.J.
To JHK , see Old Prussian Language and descriptions of language.H.J.
user:H.J., this needs to stop. You are damaging the project and wasting our time. The city is now Elblag in English. That's what the US and British governments call it. The city's history hasn't changed because the official name has. I have reverted the article, and the Elbing article will be redirected here, as was decided months ago, when Larry worked here. JHK
Could anyone tell me what dialect is that? Kashubian language by any chance? Halibutt 22:40, 18 Mar 2004 (UTC)
You mean the name of Elblag in a local Polish dialect. It the dialect of the Polish people living in the vicinity of Elblag, which is usually called Powiśle. The dialect is sometimes called Dialect of Malbork (dialekt malborski) but the natives prefer to call it Dialct of Sztum (dialekt sztumski). It has no direct connection with Cassubian language - Mestwin of Gdansk 01:32, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)
you wrote: "Can I point out that there is no evidence for such a place as Old Prussi Land, in the sense of anythig besides "here lie dragons" on any map? It's just part of some nationalist ideal to give Prussia some proto-national roots, and fits in with Prussian saga literature, which seems to be at least derived, if not downright stolen, from information we have about the Saxons and Friesians before their conversion...."
What exactly are you trying to say here? I agree with your last sentence (which I did not copy above, but I'm not sure what your point about slavic languages and their relation to the polish people now in Elbag...
I replaced some stuff at the beginning as I expanded it a little:
The town of Elbing was founded in 1237 by the
Teutonic Order near the former Truso.
Dave 12:28, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Hello Olessi. I see you are a distinguished editor on central Europe. Thanks for refining some of my changes. I can't say there is anything I want to seriously dispute at the moment. There are a couple of things I would like to mention though. When I first saw the article the introduction was incomprehensible, due to all those strange characters and that list of names. Those things should be in the article for those who take more of an interest in linguistics but it should not take one 20 minutes just to figure out the first sentence. Right at the moment the combination of my edits and yours have resulted in a format that isn't too bad. I notice many editors put such name lists at the end, but as I say, it doesn't look too bad where it is. The section heads serve to prevent confusion.
Second, so you want to call Elbing and Elblag the same city? Now really! Why not call Kaliningrad the same city! Why can't my neighbors here in the states with Germanic names go back to Elbing and visit all their cousins, hey? Let me ask you this. How many of the current citizens of Elblag get together on New year's eve to remember auld lang syne in Elbing?
In any case it seems to me we can go on with this. I can work with you so far, even though my perception is not yours. You can probably look forward to reading me on the other Prussian cities also, as I am interested in Prussia. My interests are more in antiquity but you can't neglect the modern; after all, people live today and not at some other time. Dave 03:38, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
While originally most information contributed to Wikipedia was without references, there definitely is a shift now toward sourcing contributions (see the Notes section of practically all featured articles). While general geographic data might be ok, I still would recommend sourcing it. Historical information (especially regarding the Middle Ages), should always be sourced, in my opinion, even if it is from a different language Wiki. Thanks for the "suggestion" that I might be a partisan editor- it reminds me of User:Lysy's introduction. :)
One thing I would suggest avoid doing is providing too much information here when it could be placed somewhere else. For instance, eventually I want to work on a Prussian Crusade article where the detailed history of the conquest of the Prussians would go, while details about Lübeck rights would be more fitting at Lübeck law than in this article.
Thank you for your enthusiasm for the project and happy editing! Olessi 00:12, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
The Polish external links are interesting and informative I am sure but not too many English-speakers can read them. Can't we just refer them to the Polish Wiki? It contains so much more information for the Polish readers that it seems a shame to make them read English, and the Polish sites aren't much good to the English readers. Dave 03:37, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Well, that sentence on the Book of Elblag whets the appetite by confusing the reader into a state of puzzlement. Have we any idea what language it is in? I thought the law was the Luebeck Law, according to the article. Anyway how did Prussian law get into Polish common law? And to top it all off I just can't find the Book of Elblag anywhere else besides Wikipedia. Can anyone help inform us non-Poles here? Dave 03:37, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
I think the lead focuses to heavily on the history, not enough on other aspects. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 17:16, 9 June 2011 (UTC)
There is also no reason to italicize former German names of now-Polish localities in the areas given to postwar Poland by the Potsdam Conference. In English, italics usually denote foreign (non-English) words for things or concepts, but not place names. Prior to 1945, Elbląg was officially Elbing, not Elbing, and the German name should not be italicized. Sca ( talk) 17:14, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
I have removed a gratuitous and undocumented reference to the "popularity" of the Nazi Party in Elbing. The Nazis were "popular" in nearly all German cities and towns in then-East Prussia, Danzig and Pomerania during the years just before World War II — mainly because they promised revision of the Versailles Treaty's creation of the Free City of Danzig and what then was commonly known (in Western Europe and the English-speaking world) as the Polish Corridor. Unless some evidence can be shown that the Nazis were particularly or unusually popular in Elbing, this reference is irrelevant, and seemed devised to indirectly blame the residents of old Elbing for what happened to the town in and after 1945. Much larger forces were at play. Sca ( talk) 17:28, 18 March 2013 (UTC)
Some "15th century binoculars" are mentioned. As the telescope only came in in the early 17th century, I am not sure that this is true. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.26.0.42 ( talk) 12:21, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Elbląg. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.seminarium.elblag.opoka.org.pl/When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
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(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:43, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
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(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:37, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
The transcription of the Polish name of the city at the beginning of the article is [ˈɛlblɔŋk] (with [k]) but the man in the recording says [ˈɛlblɔŋg] (with [g]). The discrepancy should be resolved in one way or another. S. Valkemirer ( talk) 09:15, 22 September 2021 (UTC)