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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 January 2020 and 15 May 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ngln92. Peer reviewers: Arielthomp21, CourtneyLynn33.
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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): MichaelMalek. Peer reviewers: Adam firlotte.
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Daniel Goleman's book Social Intelligence has a good chapter on this. FreplySpang 01:48, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
How does psychology determine what a "deficiency" is? Is there a set of criteria of behaviors? I looked around a little and couldn't find any cases of the of the word being used in a way that I was sure it was here. Would like more information please. 71.166.6.10 ( talk) 20:22, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
Not making any edit because I'm not confident enough in my point, but the last section really reads like a very biased US-centric political point. Does it really convey any new, useful information? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.97.68.15 ( talk) 11:50, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Does the content on evolution need citations? For example, "most researchers" and "some argue" are vague. In addition, I'm not sure if the discussion of group selection and selfish gene theory are accurate or even relevant. Group selection is defined incorrectly and is not "antiquated and generally rejected". "Modern evolutionary biology" does not unilaterally take the selfish gene approach. The entire paragraph on the selfish gene approach sounds like an original analysis as opposed to a synthesis of existing work, and it does not indicate whether any scholars have actually applied this analysis to the topic of the Dark Triad. I'm going to start by removing these four sentences. If someone can rewrite these to show relevance, and to include citations, they could be added back to the article. Otherwise, the rest of the "In general" paragraph should be removed. Please correct me if I'm out of line--thanks. dz7 ( talk) 04:40, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
In regards to the statement that "agreeableness had nothing to do with the core of the dark triad", I was wondering if this might be toned down a bit as it might be misleading to readers not familiar with statistical concepts. I've been unable to access the paper this is cited from as it is still in press, so I'm not completely sure I understand it. But what it sounds like is that callous manipulative traits are the common core of the dark triad and when this is statistically controlled for, the broader agreeableness trait becomes non-significant as a predictor. What I think might be misleading to some is that as it is currently written, it might give some people the impression that the dark triad is not really related to (dis)agreeableness at all. Previous research has found substantial negative correlations between callous manipulative traits and agreeableness, so there is an important overlap between the narrower traits of the dark triad and the broader agreeableness factor. Perhaps it might be more enlightening to readers to say something to the effect that the overlap between the various dark triad traits is due to a shared core of callousness and manipulation and that this is a more specific predictor than (dis)agreeableness broadly. It might also be clearer to state something like the three members of the dark triad are distinct and separate traits when callousness and manipulation are accounted for, rather than that they are "unrelated" as this might be confusing to lay readers.-- Smcg8374 ( talk) 01:39, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
A new section was recently added about a supposed dark triad in the Chinese zodiac. No reference was provided and a quick google search turned up no mention of this. Therefore, I have deleted this addition as no evidence has been provided to verify that this is a real thing. If it turns out I am wrong, I will apologise, but I can't help but suspect that this may be a hoax.-- Smcg8374 ( talk) 04:41, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
Y'all remember Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, right? I played through that game twice, once making decisions how I personally would make them...morally upright, always generous (i.e. sparing people and giving away money and helping them with their problems). Then I played through it again, aiming to be the darkest Sith lord that had ever walked the galaxy. I killed, stole, spat on people when they asked for help. In the end, my light side character had more money and items than I knew what to do with, and my dark side character was always needing to stretch those last few credits just to survive from mission to mission, illustrating the point about these dark triad-heavy folks who don't plan for the future, want their money now, end up with less in the long run.
Same thing happened in Skyrim. The more I stole, the harder it was to become rich. But give a couple gold coins to a beggar, or buy a guy a drink at the Bee & Barb, and thy cup shall overfloweth. Truth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kjekkaste ( talk • contribs) 04:37, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
This page should not be speedily deleted because it has plenty of academic studies: https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=%22Dark+triad%22&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0CB4QgQMwAGoVChMIsY7-mK3JxwIVA0bbCh0QXgnO. Deleting this article is a 100% ridiculous idea. -- Penbat ( talk) 13:24, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
A description of the dark triad traits is, quite obviously, key information and more important than the other lead content. In fact it's critical to the reader's understanding of the article. Please explain what you mean by abiding by 'English language structure' - I don't think anyone understands what you mean by this. Please also cite the specific part of the manual which suggests the original organization is breaking some rules. The new organization does not flow nearly as well. It, for example, makes much more sense to explain the dark triad before discussing its occasional applications, as is the case, for example, with the Psychopathy article. There were no such complaints until now. Elaboration is appreciated. -- Humorideas ( talk) 23:31, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
This article has largely relevant topics. Perhaps the most distracting thing in the reading is the labeling of "Perspectives" to describe aspects such as the workplace, internet trolls, etc. This seems to be simply a miscellaneous categorization (although it appears to be rooted in the various arenas in which the dark triad may surface), and the target of my most significant recommendation is either relabeling this section or moving these subsections to other places in the article. Tim Kruper ( talk) 21:00, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Here's a link to the article for those knowledgeable to incorporate into the main article, if appropriate. https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-dark-core-of-personality?utm_source=pocket-newtab Phantom in ca ( talk) 20:28, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
There's a passage in the article which reads: "Honesty-Humility has been found to be strongly, negatively correlated to the dark triad traits. Likewise, all three dark triad traits are strongly negatively correlated with Honesty-Humility." – but if X is correlated with Y, Y is also by necessity correlated with X. So the second sentence here seems to me to be nothing more than a restatement of the first? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ergwald ( talk • contribs) 21:08, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
I propose that Dark core of personality and Dark triad be merged to Dark personality (a new page).
Alright. I'm off to set up all the tags. -- Xurizuri ( talk) 09:51, 1 October 2021 (UTC) Pinging editors that I saw as being fairly involved with the articles (anyone else, feel free to do the same): @ Megaman en m:, @ Penbat:, @ Mr. Guye:, @ DukeNukemNinja:, @ Smcg8374:, @ Chris Capoccia:. -- Xurizuri ( talk) 10:29, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
19/10/21:
Psychopathy has been found to correlate with all of the Big Five personality factors: extraversion, agreeableness, conscientiousness, neuroticism and openness.[clarification needed]
22. Vernon, Philip A.; Martin, Rod A.; Schermer, Julie Aitken; MacKie, Ashley (2008). "A behavioral genetic investigation of humor styles and their correlations with the Big-5 personality dimensions". Personality and Individual Differences. 44 (5): 1116–1125. doi:10.1016/j.paid.2007.11.003.
Reference may be incorrect: abstract does not mention psychopathy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peaceandlonglife ( talk • contribs) 11:17, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
02/09/21:
Psychopathy has been found to correlate with all of the Big Five personality factors: extraversion (r = .34), agreeableness (r = −.25), conscientiousness (r = −.24), neuroticism (r = −.34) and openness (r = .24).
23. Vernon, Philip A.; Villani, Vanessa C.; Vickers, Leanne C.; Harris, Julie Aitken (January 2008). " A behavioral genetic investigation of the Dark Triad and the Big 5". Personality and Individual Differences. 44 (2): 445–452. doi:10.1016/j.paid.2007.09.007.
Quotation was selective.
Vernon, Villani, Vickers, Harris & Aitken (2008):
Correlations have ... been reported between the Dark Triad and the Big 5 variables, although results have been inconsistent.
Paulhus and Williams (2002), for example, reported
Lee and Ashton (2005) reported similar correlations but
Jakobwitz and Egan (2006) found no significant correlations between the Dark Triad and either openness or extraversion.
(p 446)
Table 3: Multivariate genetic analyses of the NEO personality scale scores with narcissism, Machiavellianism, and sub-clinical psychopathy.
Sub-clinical psychopathy:
rp = phenotypic (observed) correlation
(p 450)
[We] only found significant (negative) correlations between psychopathy and agreeableness and conscientiousness.
(p 451)
Summary
Out of these four groups:
So, psychopaths tend to be disagreeable and lacking in conscientiousness.
Peaceandlonglife ( talk) 14:39, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
==Wiki Education assignment: Personality Theory== This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 January 2022 and 11 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jmkgkn ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: Clemens2868, Knowledge297, MichloPT.
Regarding this edit, it appears that the removed section was added and edited by several editors whose usernames suggest a conflict of interest. Since this content doesn't really fit comfortably in Dark triad#Relationship to other personality models, this veers into spamming. Any disinterested editor who has reviewed these sources should feel free to revert, but I would also recommend rephrasing or expanding to make the connection between emotional intelligence and personality theory explicit instead of merely implied. Grayfell ( talk) 02:35, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
Contrary to the merge proposal above, I request to split Dark Triad and Dark Factor of Personality (D-factor). Reasons:
In any case, the D factor does not belong in an article about the dark triad, so the section should be deleted. If anything, a section on the commonalities between these three traits could be added, including a reference to the D factor. But again, the D factor is no theory about the dark triad in particular, so there is no point to dwell at length here.
If the decision instead rather would be do rename the article to "dark" or "aversive personality", then the whole dark triad concept doesn't make much sense, as it is no more than an umbrella term. At the same time, there are many many aversive traits which would need coverage to make this meaningful. So this would essentially require an entire rewrite. 87.141.121.105 ( talk) 11:17, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Subclinical psychopathy: "Subclinical psychopathy refers to individuals who exhibit many of the characteristics of psychopathy, except for some of the more severe antisocial behaviors. This constellation of traits allows the subclinical psychopath to avoid incarceration." It is simply a less severe form of psychopathy.
It does not mean that they are present in the general population as opposed to clinical settings. Clinical psychopathy is also present in the general population before getting caught. In clinical settings, one may be diagnosed as subclinical psychopathy or clinical psychopathy. 2600:6C44:117F:95BE:1D96:C2A3:8180:B587 ( talk) 19:56, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 17 January 2023 and 12 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Isbenn, HowAboutThisName ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: Adwf2, Mkerr30, Ianh7.
— Assignment last updated by Adwf2 ( talk) 04:26, 30 March 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Dark triad article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find medical sources: Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · Trip · Wiley · TWL |
This article was nominated for deletion on 27 August 2015. The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: |
||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Article history: | |||||
|
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
pageviews.wmcloud.org |
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 21 January 2020 and 15 May 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ngln92. Peer reviewers: Arielthomp21, CourtneyLynn33.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 19:48, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): MichaelMalek. Peer reviewers: Adam firlotte.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 19:03, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Daniel Goleman's book Social Intelligence has a good chapter on this. FreplySpang 01:48, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
How does psychology determine what a "deficiency" is? Is there a set of criteria of behaviors? I looked around a little and couldn't find any cases of the of the word being used in a way that I was sure it was here. Would like more information please. 71.166.6.10 ( talk) 20:22, 12 April 2010 (UTC)
Not making any edit because I'm not confident enough in my point, but the last section really reads like a very biased US-centric political point. Does it really convey any new, useful information? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.97.68.15 ( talk) 11:50, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Does the content on evolution need citations? For example, "most researchers" and "some argue" are vague. In addition, I'm not sure if the discussion of group selection and selfish gene theory are accurate or even relevant. Group selection is defined incorrectly and is not "antiquated and generally rejected". "Modern evolutionary biology" does not unilaterally take the selfish gene approach. The entire paragraph on the selfish gene approach sounds like an original analysis as opposed to a synthesis of existing work, and it does not indicate whether any scholars have actually applied this analysis to the topic of the Dark Triad. I'm going to start by removing these four sentences. If someone can rewrite these to show relevance, and to include citations, they could be added back to the article. Otherwise, the rest of the "In general" paragraph should be removed. Please correct me if I'm out of line--thanks. dz7 ( talk) 04:40, 30 May 2012 (UTC)
In regards to the statement that "agreeableness had nothing to do with the core of the dark triad", I was wondering if this might be toned down a bit as it might be misleading to readers not familiar with statistical concepts. I've been unable to access the paper this is cited from as it is still in press, so I'm not completely sure I understand it. But what it sounds like is that callous manipulative traits are the common core of the dark triad and when this is statistically controlled for, the broader agreeableness trait becomes non-significant as a predictor. What I think might be misleading to some is that as it is currently written, it might give some people the impression that the dark triad is not really related to (dis)agreeableness at all. Previous research has found substantial negative correlations between callous manipulative traits and agreeableness, so there is an important overlap between the narrower traits of the dark triad and the broader agreeableness factor. Perhaps it might be more enlightening to readers to say something to the effect that the overlap between the various dark triad traits is due to a shared core of callousness and manipulation and that this is a more specific predictor than (dis)agreeableness broadly. It might also be clearer to state something like the three members of the dark triad are distinct and separate traits when callousness and manipulation are accounted for, rather than that they are "unrelated" as this might be confusing to lay readers.-- Smcg8374 ( talk) 01:39, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
A new section was recently added about a supposed dark triad in the Chinese zodiac. No reference was provided and a quick google search turned up no mention of this. Therefore, I have deleted this addition as no evidence has been provided to verify that this is a real thing. If it turns out I am wrong, I will apologise, but I can't help but suspect that this may be a hoax.-- Smcg8374 ( talk) 04:41, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
Y'all remember Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, right? I played through that game twice, once making decisions how I personally would make them...morally upright, always generous (i.e. sparing people and giving away money and helping them with their problems). Then I played through it again, aiming to be the darkest Sith lord that had ever walked the galaxy. I killed, stole, spat on people when they asked for help. In the end, my light side character had more money and items than I knew what to do with, and my dark side character was always needing to stretch those last few credits just to survive from mission to mission, illustrating the point about these dark triad-heavy folks who don't plan for the future, want their money now, end up with less in the long run.
Same thing happened in Skyrim. The more I stole, the harder it was to become rich. But give a couple gold coins to a beggar, or buy a guy a drink at the Bee & Barb, and thy cup shall overfloweth. Truth. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kjekkaste ( talk • contribs) 04:37, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
This page should not be speedily deleted because it has plenty of academic studies: https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=%22Dark+triad%22&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart&sa=X&ved=0CB4QgQMwAGoVChMIsY7-mK3JxwIVA0bbCh0QXgnO. Deleting this article is a 100% ridiculous idea. -- Penbat ( talk) 13:24, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
A description of the dark triad traits is, quite obviously, key information and more important than the other lead content. In fact it's critical to the reader's understanding of the article. Please explain what you mean by abiding by 'English language structure' - I don't think anyone understands what you mean by this. Please also cite the specific part of the manual which suggests the original organization is breaking some rules. The new organization does not flow nearly as well. It, for example, makes much more sense to explain the dark triad before discussing its occasional applications, as is the case, for example, with the Psychopathy article. There were no such complaints until now. Elaboration is appreciated. -- Humorideas ( talk) 23:31, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
This article has largely relevant topics. Perhaps the most distracting thing in the reading is the labeling of "Perspectives" to describe aspects such as the workplace, internet trolls, etc. This seems to be simply a miscellaneous categorization (although it appears to be rooted in the various arenas in which the dark triad may surface), and the target of my most significant recommendation is either relabeling this section or moving these subsections to other places in the article. Tim Kruper ( talk) 21:00, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Here's a link to the article for those knowledgeable to incorporate into the main article, if appropriate. https://getpocket.com/explore/item/the-dark-core-of-personality?utm_source=pocket-newtab Phantom in ca ( talk) 20:28, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
There's a passage in the article which reads: "Honesty-Humility has been found to be strongly, negatively correlated to the dark triad traits. Likewise, all three dark triad traits are strongly negatively correlated with Honesty-Humility." – but if X is correlated with Y, Y is also by necessity correlated with X. So the second sentence here seems to me to be nothing more than a restatement of the first? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ergwald ( talk • contribs) 21:08, 25 March 2021 (UTC)
I propose that Dark core of personality and Dark triad be merged to Dark personality (a new page).
Alright. I'm off to set up all the tags. -- Xurizuri ( talk) 09:51, 1 October 2021 (UTC) Pinging editors that I saw as being fairly involved with the articles (anyone else, feel free to do the same): @ Megaman en m:, @ Penbat:, @ Mr. Guye:, @ DukeNukemNinja:, @ Smcg8374:, @ Chris Capoccia:. -- Xurizuri ( talk) 10:29, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
19/10/21:
Psychopathy has been found to correlate with all of the Big Five personality factors: extraversion, agreeableness, conscientiousness, neuroticism and openness.[clarification needed]
22. Vernon, Philip A.; Martin, Rod A.; Schermer, Julie Aitken; MacKie, Ashley (2008). "A behavioral genetic investigation of humor styles and their correlations with the Big-5 personality dimensions". Personality and Individual Differences. 44 (5): 1116–1125. doi:10.1016/j.paid.2007.11.003.
Reference may be incorrect: abstract does not mention psychopathy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Peaceandlonglife ( talk • contribs) 11:17, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
02/09/21:
Psychopathy has been found to correlate with all of the Big Five personality factors: extraversion (r = .34), agreeableness (r = −.25), conscientiousness (r = −.24), neuroticism (r = −.34) and openness (r = .24).
23. Vernon, Philip A.; Villani, Vanessa C.; Vickers, Leanne C.; Harris, Julie Aitken (January 2008). " A behavioral genetic investigation of the Dark Triad and the Big 5". Personality and Individual Differences. 44 (2): 445–452. doi:10.1016/j.paid.2007.09.007.
Quotation was selective.
Vernon, Villani, Vickers, Harris & Aitken (2008):
Correlations have ... been reported between the Dark Triad and the Big 5 variables, although results have been inconsistent.
Paulhus and Williams (2002), for example, reported
Lee and Ashton (2005) reported similar correlations but
Jakobwitz and Egan (2006) found no significant correlations between the Dark Triad and either openness or extraversion.
(p 446)
Table 3: Multivariate genetic analyses of the NEO personality scale scores with narcissism, Machiavellianism, and sub-clinical psychopathy.
Sub-clinical psychopathy:
rp = phenotypic (observed) correlation
(p 450)
[We] only found significant (negative) correlations between psychopathy and agreeableness and conscientiousness.
(p 451)
Summary
Out of these four groups:
So, psychopaths tend to be disagreeable and lacking in conscientiousness.
Peaceandlonglife ( talk) 14:39, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
==Wiki Education assignment: Personality Theory== This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 January 2022 and 11 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jmkgkn ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: Clemens2868, Knowledge297, MichloPT.
Regarding this edit, it appears that the removed section was added and edited by several editors whose usernames suggest a conflict of interest. Since this content doesn't really fit comfortably in Dark triad#Relationship to other personality models, this veers into spamming. Any disinterested editor who has reviewed these sources should feel free to revert, but I would also recommend rephrasing or expanding to make the connection between emotional intelligence and personality theory explicit instead of merely implied. Grayfell ( talk) 02:35, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
Contrary to the merge proposal above, I request to split Dark Triad and Dark Factor of Personality (D-factor). Reasons:
In any case, the D factor does not belong in an article about the dark triad, so the section should be deleted. If anything, a section on the commonalities between these three traits could be added, including a reference to the D factor. But again, the D factor is no theory about the dark triad in particular, so there is no point to dwell at length here.
If the decision instead rather would be do rename the article to "dark" or "aversive personality", then the whole dark triad concept doesn't make much sense, as it is no more than an umbrella term. At the same time, there are many many aversive traits which would need coverage to make this meaningful. So this would essentially require an entire rewrite. 87.141.121.105 ( talk) 11:17, 21 August 2022 (UTC)
Subclinical psychopathy: "Subclinical psychopathy refers to individuals who exhibit many of the characteristics of psychopathy, except for some of the more severe antisocial behaviors. This constellation of traits allows the subclinical psychopath to avoid incarceration." It is simply a less severe form of psychopathy.
It does not mean that they are present in the general population as opposed to clinical settings. Clinical psychopathy is also present in the general population before getting caught. In clinical settings, one may be diagnosed as subclinical psychopathy or clinical psychopathy. 2600:6C44:117F:95BE:1D96:C2A3:8180:B587 ( talk) 19:56, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 17 January 2023 and 12 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Isbenn, HowAboutThisName ( article contribs). Peer reviewers: Adwf2, Mkerr30, Ianh7.
— Assignment last updated by Adwf2 ( talk) 04:26, 30 March 2023 (UTC)