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There is a remarkable lack of mention of the number of people massacred at the hands of his government. There is lots of useful sourced info in this page: http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE2.HTM

Some of this info could be added to the KMT page and the History of China page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.104.218.11 ( talk) 19:10, 8 May 2012 (UTC) reply

Blaming Chiang for the deaths of the civilians caught in the floods or in the conscription campaigns or other KMT actions between 1937 and 1945 during the resistance against the Japanese is inaccurate at best or deliberately hypocritical at best. Chiang ordered the levees breeched because Japanese troops had defeated the Chinese forces in the campaigns from Shanghai to Nanjing in 1937 and some means had to be found to keep them from driving into the last areas under KMT rule. Chiang's actions were no different than that of the Dutch when they flooded the lands around their cities in a last-ditch act to stop the Spanish in the Eighty Years War or Louis XIV later. The Belgians did something similar to slow the Germans in 1914-1915. There are other examples in world history. Those people died because of Japanese aggression, just as surely as the innocents at Nanjing in 1937 or the millions of people who were murdered, died from disease or starvation in the areas under Japanese occupation. It is one thing to murder millions of people during the "Great Leap Forward" or the Mao's revolution and blame Chiang for deaths directly related to Japanese operations. 206.39.41.4 ( talk) 19:35, 25 October 2022 (UTC) reply

Rudolph Rummel is a historian with considerable personal political biases, just like Grover Furr. He also denies human-induced climate change, which is a universally accepted truth by modern scientists, and supports NATO interventions globally. I wouldn’t uphold his numbers as a universal truth by citing them on Wikipedia. LeonChrisfield ( talk) 02:45, 5 February 2023 (UTC) reply

Rummel's argument stands apart from the rest of the article. I have not seen other historians calling Chiang a killer for the flood, famine, and conscription. Senorangel ( talk) 00:34, 7 June 2023 (UTC) reply

@ LeonChrisfield: Grover Furr is not a historian. 50.221.225.231 ( talk) 23:36, 28 September 2023 (UTC) reply

‎re: the pondering in the diffs by @ ‎LeonChrisfield et al, now I've got to wondering: how exactly is it debatable? He wanted to be in China, he saw himself as important to China, but he was kicked out of China (as it were) and he was not allowed to return to China. That seems squarely like 'exile' to me, but I suppose the word does feel a bit over-incisive. Remsense 聊 23:13, 9 October 2023 (UTC) reply

I was not the one who reverted the edit. I think you should talk to the person who did about it. LeonChrisfield ( talk) 23:17, 9 October 2023 (UTC) reply

yes, my bad! i was not meaning to challenge anyone per se, I was just curious what people thought but lazily only tagged one person :) Remsense 聊 23:19, 9 October 2023 (UTC) reply

But yes, the word “exiled” is usually used for governments that lost all territories and are on the loose under foreign protections. LeonChrisfield ( talk) 23:18, 9 October 2023 (UTC) reply