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Merge from Social construct theory of ADHD
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
- There was strong consensus in favor of merging Social construct theory of ADHD into Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder controversies. A. C. Santacruz ⁂ Please ping me! 00:15, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
A majority of the content on Social construct theory of ADHD could sit comfortably within the main body of this Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder controversies, with the subsection " Questioning the pathophysiological and genetic basis of ADHD" better fitting ' ADHD as a biological difference' in particular. (See: WP:OVERLAP) Previously, the content of the subsection below the link to the page in question was one misinterpretation of a scientific paper and another unsourced reference to the beliefs of Thomas Szasz. If those particular beliefs are to be included in the transfer I believe it would be best to point out how they have been constested. It might also be useful to include the perhaps outdated beliefs of the late Dr. Richard Saul, which in summary are that symptoms of ADHD are in actuality the result of other psychological issues making treatment via stimulants detrimental, in the merge between the two sections. His concerns function well as a bridge between questioning ADHD's biology and issues surrounding its social construct, and might give more context for the importance of how physiological differences in ADHD patients help establish it as a unique disorder. For a non-opinion source, Dr. Saul has written a book with the same provocative title as the article. I have never merged a page and, due to the subject's complexity, feel it would be best left to someone more experienced. Thank you! — VariousDeliciousCheeses ( talk) 02:37, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
- Support. Basically I think that the theory should just be a section in this article rather than a single standalone piece. @ VariousDeliciousCheeses (great name by the way) wait a month or two and then if there is consensus give the merge a go yourself. I'm happy if you want to ping me to check if our afterwards if you need any help. Cheers Tom (LT) ( talk) 22:54, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
- I have complicated opinions on this one. This article has an incredible degree of overlap with other ADHD articles, and while it has notability, it . So I agree that it should be merged somewhere. The problem is, I despise the controversy article. I think it's a major WP:UNDUE hazard because the list-ish nature of it makes it hard to assess what's due, and the word "controversy" is kinda just bait for POV. The name also implies that ADHD is controversial - and it is - but "the facts" are also very established scientifically. The controversy is all cultural/societal stuff (this will come back later). So I don't love the idea of putting more stuff into that article.
- I do also have an issue with classifying the social construct theory purely as a "controversy" - yes, most of it is controversial, but some parts overlap with genuinely important points, for example, the social model of disability is a major theory, and it does apply to impairments that arise from ADHD. Both articles also would fit far better into the "Society and culture" section from MOS:MED's disorder article sections (described as, "This might include social perceptions, cultural history, stigma, economics, religious aspects, awareness, legal issues, and notable cases" and is distinct from history, described as "Early discoveries, historical figures, and outdated treatments").
- So, here's my actual take on this: merge both into a new article. A new society and culture page (probably something like Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder in society and culture) is created; most of the information in controversy and the entirety of the social construct article go there. A society and culture section is created on the main ADHD article; that replaces the controversy section and part of the society section that's under "Causes". This removes the POV temptation that is the controversies article, allows for a less fragmented coverage of societal issues, and reduces the ridiculous number of overlapping articles we have.
- Also, I'm happy to help with whatever merging is needed :) (please ping me if you respond, I'm pretty bad at checking back on things) -- Xurizuri ( talk) 05:20, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
- Support merge - controversies article itself should be restructured and renamed at some point but I think this first step is straightforward Cas Liber ( talk · contribs) 04:23, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
- Support merge. It smells like a POV-fork. The controversy article has problems, but adding this content into that article would help. I would support a later merge/renaming of the controversy article to ADHD in society and culture. — Shibbolethink ( ♔ ♕) 15:53, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
I came across this article recently and noticed a few things I thought could be worth querying here (e.g. things that sound a bit misleading, things that maybe don't belong ++). However, seeing the discussion on whether to change the whole page to ADHD in society and culture, is it even worth me bringing anything up now, or is it all going to be overhauled anyway?
FWIW I think the proposal to rename is a good idea. A title like "ADHD controversies" does sound a bit "spicy" somehow, in comparison to "ADHD in society and culture". To me the word "controversy" kind of sparks an "ooh what's the dirt" reaction. E.g. imagine an article titled, idk, "Epilepsy controversies" - if you weren't aware of any, there is probably now curiosity to know what they are, or at least confusion over why such an article exists. This is an international platform and you can't *assume* anyone who reads it is already even vaguely aware of ADHD controversy, so an article title like this sort of "legitimises" it further. (Just to clarify, I'm not disagreeing that controversy should be covered.) That's my take at least, hope it makes sense.
Just for transparency: I am a Wikipedia editing newbie, and I'm diagnosed with ADHD. RapturousRatling ( talk) 17:43, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
- RapturousRatling, suggestions are always welcome! Feel free to make changes as well, but be warned that there's a lot of wikipedia rules that aren't always intuitive, so someone might undo the change. If that happens, just take a breath, read anything that they link to, and ask for clarification on the talk page here if it's still unclear. If you would prefer to stick to the talk page for a while, that's also completely fine.For a bit of context on how renaming/" moving" works, the content of the article remains, the title is changed, and then people edit it to fit the new title if needed. Because it would still be a very similar article, just with a modified tone, a lot of suggestions would still be relevant. -- Xurizuri ( talk) 05:06, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
- @ Xurizuri: OK cool. I think I’ll stick to the talk page for now! Will try get around to posting a list here soon. RapturousRatling ( talk) 12:27, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 August 2022 and 9 December 2022. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
CJG6268 (
article contribs). Peer reviewers:
Openskies789,
Hjk5385.
— Assignment last updated by Openskies789 ( talk) 01:34, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
“Despite the scientifically well-established nature of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder(ADHD), its diagnosis, and its treatment, each of these has been controversial since the 1970s.”
This phrase is framing the controversies as if they are not mainstream, unsupported, contrary to factual evidence from the beginning. It is clear that something can be both “well-established” scientifically and still be highly controversial, so “despite” is misplaced in this sentence. Serious issues with the diagnosis and treatment of ADHD fit within the category of “well-established,” being recognized both by the scientific literature and by professional psychiatrists.
The article would be improved if it showed clearly that controversy surrounding ADHD is based on valid evidence and on the principles of science. 2604:3D09:A17E:8800:C4FD:902D:5780:348E ( talk) 17:17, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
- The article will not be changed just based on your opinion that there is such
valid evidence
. You need WP:RS for that. -- Hob Gadling ( talk) 17:38, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 August 2023 and 10 December 2023. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
CEJ493,
Katherinealmonte,
Nicole.Tirado,
Uzma.siraj,
Uzmasiraj0313,
TaiAve93 (
article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Dkhora ( talk) 19:37, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
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| This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder controversies article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
| Find medical sources: Source guidelines · PubMed · Cochrane · DOAJ · Gale · OpenMD · ScienceDirect · Springer · Trip · Wiley · TWL |
|
Archives:
Index,
1,
2,
3,
4,
5Auto-archiving period: 180 days
|
|
| This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Text has been copied to or from this article; see the list below. The source pages now serve to
provide attribution for the content in the destination pages and must not be deleted as long as the copies exist. For attribution and to access older versions of the copied text, please see the history links below.
|
| This topic contains controversial issues, some of which have reached a consensus for approach and neutrality, and some of which may be disputed. Before making any potentially controversial changes to the article, please carefully read the discussion-page dialogue to see if the issue has been raised before, and ensure that your edit meets all of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Please also ensure you use an accurate and concise edit summary. |
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Merge from Social construct theory of ADHD
- The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
- There was strong consensus in favor of merging Social construct theory of ADHD into Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder controversies. A. C. Santacruz ⁂ Please ping me! 00:15, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
A majority of the content on Social construct theory of ADHD could sit comfortably within the main body of this Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder controversies, with the subsection " Questioning the pathophysiological and genetic basis of ADHD" better fitting ' ADHD as a biological difference' in particular. (See: WP:OVERLAP) Previously, the content of the subsection below the link to the page in question was one misinterpretation of a scientific paper and another unsourced reference to the beliefs of Thomas Szasz. If those particular beliefs are to be included in the transfer I believe it would be best to point out how they have been constested. It might also be useful to include the perhaps outdated beliefs of the late Dr. Richard Saul, which in summary are that symptoms of ADHD are in actuality the result of other psychological issues making treatment via stimulants detrimental, in the merge between the two sections. His concerns function well as a bridge between questioning ADHD's biology and issues surrounding its social construct, and might give more context for the importance of how physiological differences in ADHD patients help establish it as a unique disorder. For a non-opinion source, Dr. Saul has written a book with the same provocative title as the article. I have never merged a page and, due to the subject's complexity, feel it would be best left to someone more experienced. Thank you! — VariousDeliciousCheeses ( talk) 02:37, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
- Support. Basically I think that the theory should just be a section in this article rather than a single standalone piece. @ VariousDeliciousCheeses (great name by the way) wait a month or two and then if there is consensus give the merge a go yourself. I'm happy if you want to ping me to check if our afterwards if you need any help. Cheers Tom (LT) ( talk) 22:54, 1 October 2021 (UTC)
- I have complicated opinions on this one. This article has an incredible degree of overlap with other ADHD articles, and while it has notability, it . So I agree that it should be merged somewhere. The problem is, I despise the controversy article. I think it's a major WP:UNDUE hazard because the list-ish nature of it makes it hard to assess what's due, and the word "controversy" is kinda just bait for POV. The name also implies that ADHD is controversial - and it is - but "the facts" are also very established scientifically. The controversy is all cultural/societal stuff (this will come back later). So I don't love the idea of putting more stuff into that article.
- I do also have an issue with classifying the social construct theory purely as a "controversy" - yes, most of it is controversial, but some parts overlap with genuinely important points, for example, the social model of disability is a major theory, and it does apply to impairments that arise from ADHD. Both articles also would fit far better into the "Society and culture" section from MOS:MED's disorder article sections (described as, "This might include social perceptions, cultural history, stigma, economics, religious aspects, awareness, legal issues, and notable cases" and is distinct from history, described as "Early discoveries, historical figures, and outdated treatments").
- So, here's my actual take on this: merge both into a new article. A new society and culture page (probably something like Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder in society and culture) is created; most of the information in controversy and the entirety of the social construct article go there. A society and culture section is created on the main ADHD article; that replaces the controversy section and part of the society section that's under "Causes". This removes the POV temptation that is the controversies article, allows for a less fragmented coverage of societal issues, and reduces the ridiculous number of overlapping articles we have.
- Also, I'm happy to help with whatever merging is needed :) (please ping me if you respond, I'm pretty bad at checking back on things) -- Xurizuri ( talk) 05:20, 3 October 2021 (UTC)
- Support merge - controversies article itself should be restructured and renamed at some point but I think this first step is straightforward Cas Liber ( talk · contribs) 04:23, 25 October 2021 (UTC)
- Support merge. It smells like a POV-fork. The controversy article has problems, but adding this content into that article would help. I would support a later merge/renaming of the controversy article to ADHD in society and culture. — Shibbolethink ( ♔ ♕) 15:53, 17 December 2021 (UTC)
I came across this article recently and noticed a few things I thought could be worth querying here (e.g. things that sound a bit misleading, things that maybe don't belong ++). However, seeing the discussion on whether to change the whole page to ADHD in society and culture, is it even worth me bringing anything up now, or is it all going to be overhauled anyway?
FWIW I think the proposal to rename is a good idea. A title like "ADHD controversies" does sound a bit "spicy" somehow, in comparison to "ADHD in society and culture". To me the word "controversy" kind of sparks an "ooh what's the dirt" reaction. E.g. imagine an article titled, idk, "Epilepsy controversies" - if you weren't aware of any, there is probably now curiosity to know what they are, or at least confusion over why such an article exists. This is an international platform and you can't *assume* anyone who reads it is already even vaguely aware of ADHD controversy, so an article title like this sort of "legitimises" it further. (Just to clarify, I'm not disagreeing that controversy should be covered.) That's my take at least, hope it makes sense.
Just for transparency: I am a Wikipedia editing newbie, and I'm diagnosed with ADHD. RapturousRatling ( talk) 17:43, 15 January 2022 (UTC)
- RapturousRatling, suggestions are always welcome! Feel free to make changes as well, but be warned that there's a lot of wikipedia rules that aren't always intuitive, so someone might undo the change. If that happens, just take a breath, read anything that they link to, and ask for clarification on the talk page here if it's still unclear. If you would prefer to stick to the talk page for a while, that's also completely fine.For a bit of context on how renaming/" moving" works, the content of the article remains, the title is changed, and then people edit it to fit the new title if needed. Because it would still be a very similar article, just with a modified tone, a lot of suggestions would still be relevant. -- Xurizuri ( talk) 05:06, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
- @ Xurizuri: OK cool. I think I’ll stick to the talk page for now! Will try get around to posting a list here soon. RapturousRatling ( talk) 12:27, 21 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 August 2022 and 9 December 2022. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
CJG6268 (
article contribs). Peer reviewers:
Openskies789,
Hjk5385.
— Assignment last updated by Openskies789 ( talk) 01:34, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
“Despite the scientifically well-established nature of attention deficit hyperactivity disorder(ADHD), its diagnosis, and its treatment, each of these has been controversial since the 1970s.”
This phrase is framing the controversies as if they are not mainstream, unsupported, contrary to factual evidence from the beginning. It is clear that something can be both “well-established” scientifically and still be highly controversial, so “despite” is misplaced in this sentence. Serious issues with the diagnosis and treatment of ADHD fit within the category of “well-established,” being recognized both by the scientific literature and by professional psychiatrists.
The article would be improved if it showed clearly that controversy surrounding ADHD is based on valid evidence and on the principles of science. 2604:3D09:A17E:8800:C4FD:902D:5780:348E ( talk) 17:17, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
- The article will not be changed just based on your opinion that there is such
valid evidence
. You need WP:RS for that. -- Hob Gadling ( talk) 17:38, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 August 2023 and 10 December 2023. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
CEJ493,
Katherinealmonte,
Nicole.Tirado,
Uzma.siraj,
Uzmasiraj0313,
TaiAve93 (
article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Dkhora ( talk) 19:37, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
- C-Class medicine articles
- Mid-importance medicine articles
- C-Class neurology articles
- Unknown-importance neurology articles
- Neurology task force articles
- C-Class psychiatry articles
- Unknown-importance psychiatry articles
- Psychiatry task force articles
- All WikiProject Medicine articles
- C-Class Alternative medicine articles
- C-Class psychology articles
- Mid-importance psychology articles
- WikiProject Psychology articles
- C-Class Skepticism articles
- Low-importance Skepticism articles
- WikiProject Skepticism articles
- C-Class Disability articles
- WikiProject Disability articles
- C-Class Autism articles
- Unknown-importance Autism articles
- WikiProject Autism articles
- Wikipedia controversial topics