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view ·  Frequently asked questions Q1: Why was my edit reverted? A1: Your edit was likely reverted by another editor for failing to adhere to Wikipedia's standards of quality as it applies to biographies of living persons. Edits that are not encyclopedic, neutral in phrasing, or constructive are subject to removal (see: WP:PILLARS). Q2: Andrew Tate goes by xe/xim pronouns. Why doesn't the article use them? A2: Per MOS:GENDERID, articles use the pronouns found in the most recent reliable sources. While self-identification is usually sufficient for pronouns per WP:ABOUTSELF, there is serious doubt among editors that Andrew Tate's claims to prefer xe/xim or she/her pronouns are genuine. The self-identifcation is thus an exceptional claim and not, on its own, a reliable source. As of yet, no independent source refers to Tate using xe/xim or she/her pronouns. Q3: Why isn't Andrew Tate's conversion to Islam mentioned in the article? A3: Andrew Tate's conversion to Islam is mentioned in the article under § Personal life. The "stance" parameter in the infobox does not refer to Tate's religious stance; rather, it refers to his boxing stance during his time as a kickboxer. He fought with an orthodox stance. Q4: Why is Andrew Tate referred to as a misogynist? He is not a misogynist. A4: Andrew Tate's commentary, not Andrew Tate himself, is referred to as misogynistic in accordance with WP:NPOV due to the many reliable sources cited, including The New York Times, The Washington Post, Reuters, and NPR. If you believe this existing consensus should be changed, please start a discussion below and use reliable sources to demonstrate why.

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This article has been viewed enough times in a single year to make it into the Top 50 Report annual list. This happened in 2022 and 2023.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 14 times. The weeks in which this happened: July 10 to 16, 2022 July 17 to 23, 2022 July 24 to 30, 2022 July 31 to August 6, 2022 August 7 to 13, 2022 August 14 to 20, 2022 August 21 to 27, 2022 August 28 to September 3, 2022 December 25 to 31, 2022 January 1 to 7, 2023 January 8 to 14, 2023 January 15 to 21, 2023 March 26 to April 1, 2023 April 2 to 8, 2023

Daily pageviews of this article A graph should have been displayed here but graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at pageviews.wmcloud.org

Andrew Tate in 2023

• ... that social media personality Andrew Tate (pictured) was the third most ' googled' person in 2023? Source: [1]
  • ALT1: ... that one of the most-liked tweets of all time was Greta Thunberg's response to Andrew Tate (pictured) in December 2022? Source: [2]
  • ALT2: ... that counter-terror police have expressed concern over influencer Andrew Tate (pictured), due to an increase in cases related to incel culture? Source: [3]
  • Reviewed:
  • Comment: These is about as neutral as I can think of.

Improved to Good Article status by CommunityNotesContributor ( talk). Self-nominated at 16:19, 10 March 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Andrew Tate; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page. reply

• Not a review, but this article might not be DYK material. (Primarily since our coverage is overwhelmingly negative) Sohom ( talk) 16:24, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Thanks for your input. I've striked out ALT2, given it focuses on the negative. The other two hooks, specifically the first, I'd consider as neutral as they come. The coverage in the article is overwhelming negative due to RS, not due to contributors, with a lot of consideration for using NPOV language and attribution as per BLP policy, as well as including everything positive about Tate, or in defense of him. I'd argue this type of article would come under one of the goals of DYK: highlight the variety of information on Wikipedia, thereby providing an insight into the range of material that Wikipedia covers. If we are not including controversial topics, then we are not achieving this diversity. CommunityNotesContributor ( talk) 17:31, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply

We do feature negative hooks about certain things ( Site isolation had a semi-negative hook, despite having a overwhelmingly positive reception). I'm not insinuating that NPOV was compromised when building the article eithier (in fact the article great considering how freaking controversial the subject is). I'm just unsure if running a negative article about a BLP is the best idea. In any case, I'll defer to a actual reviewer. Sohom ( talk) 20:06, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Again, appreciate the feedback. Just to clarify, we're not still talking about negative hooks are we? The hooks are currently neutral, if not positive. If the argument is along the lines of if Jimmy Savile were promoted to GA, and then nominated as a DYK, and that would be an issue, than I have no complaints. Simple as. CommunityNotesContributor ( talk) 20:59, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply

Exactly, that's my argument. The hooks look good from a neutrality POV (imo). Sohom ( talk) 21:19, 10 March 2024 (UTC) reply

CommunityNotesContributor: I could do with you if I ever decide to GA Tate's Big Brother housemate Marco Pierre White Jr and try him on again here. I would just like to bring your attention to the bit of WP:DYKHOOK that says "Hooks that unduly focus on negative aspects of living persons should be avoided", emphasis mine. I see no reason why a rightfully negative article should not be promoted with a negative hook; we should not be providing WP:FALSEBALANCE. Out of interest, is there a reason you don't mention his appearance on Ultimate Traveller?-- Laun chba ller 10:29, 24 March 2024 (UTC) reply

@ CommunityNotesContributor: Please respond to the above. Z1720 ( talk) 02:08, 1 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Probably because there doesn't appear to be a reliable source with coverage, all I could find was one line from Independent (via Yahoo) documenting this [4]. The show itself doesn't appear to be notable, based on the lack of Wikipedia page, though this minor detail could be added to BB section for example. CommunityNotesContributor ( talk) 13:09, 4 April 2024 (UTC) reply

That's a shame. I saw that the non-RS Rolling Stone mentioned that he flounced out of it with an eye infection, and wondered if there was a hook in it. Full review needed.-- Laun chba ller 13:17, 4 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Article passed a GA review and was nominated in the proper time frame. Hooks are neutral. Both hooks are verified to the cited sources and are of usable length. Article is in compliance with all wiki policies as one would expect from a GA article. There was some discussion on the DYK talk page in the transgender topic thread about the use of the image being not desirable. Based on those comments, I would say that we should pass on this pic given the distaste expressed by several editors who regularly contribute at DYK for featuring this particular article in the most prominent spot. I personally prefer Alt 1, but I leave it up to the promoter on which of the two hooks they prefer to promote. This one is ready to go. 4meter4 ( talk) 02:24, 10 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Ok let's go with ATL1 then with no image. Do you have a link to the discussion elsewhere? I didn't see it, as there are no issues raised with the picture on this template. CommunityNotesContributor ( talk) 11:35, 10 April 2024 (UTC) reply

It's a very brief subthread of Wikipedia talk:Did you know#Do we have to keep doing this?; lucid Launchballer says this could swallow a wider hearing. Pinging Viriditas.-- Laun chba ller 11:46, 10 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Thanks for sharing. I don't think we should be making decisions on DYK templates based on obscured opinions made elsewhere, that sets a dangerous precedent and lacks transparency. The comment "although ALT1 takes him down a couple of pegs, so I'd be very happy for that to run" does raise an important point of NPOV in these hooks, and therefore I change my option to ATL0. Otherwise waiting for objection to use of picture that remains non-existent on this talk page. On a side note, it's a shame that there appears to be a "fear" of raising awareness over what I would broadly consider a "toxic influence" to young males. Notably the UK education system thought turning a blind eye to Tate's influence was also the solution, [5] but along with Australia, [6] have done a complete u-turn, [7] realising that ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away, and instead worsened the problem. [8]. Lessons could be learnt here... CommunityNotesContributor ( talk) 14:34, 10 April 2024 (UTC) reply

That conversation was enough to make me uncomfortable in endorsing the pic. I stick by what I said. Alt1 is a perfectly good hook, and the original one is also fine. Either one could be promoted. I find the Alt1 hook better simply because it's more eye catching in my opinion and would make me want to read the article more so than the other hook. To me its more hooky for lack of a better word. 4meter4 ( talk) 14:46, 10 April 2024 (UTC) reply

OK, no issues with either hook being chosen, take your pick. The argument for it being a better hook I support, especially since it also links to Greta which is another GA, but not because it's considered a convenient POV. I think there needs to be a broader discussion over raising issues with DKY nominations outside of their templates though, either here or on the main talk page, as the implications over precedents being set and transparency remain concerning. CommunityNotesContributor ( talk) 14:53, 10 April 2024 (UTC) reply

I should have pinged, my apologies. (Side note, shouldn't it be 'December 2022' response?)-- Laun chba ller 14:57, 10 April 2024 (UTC) reply

OK thanks, let's leave it at that then, since this isn't being defended. I think "that one of the most-liked tweets of all time was ... in December 2022?" otherwise remains accurate, as this is the date when it became one of the most-liked tweets. CommunityNotesContributor ( talk) 15:08, 10 April 2024 (UTC) reply

WP:DYKHOOKBLP ALT1 does not work, it is about a tweet from a third party and it is very depreciating and body shaming. We should not feature a "someone tweeted something embarrassing about someone else's penis" hook. Bruxton ( talk) 14:54, 11 April 2024 (UTC) reply

I think the slang the kids use might be confusing you... The tweet was about their energy, not their penis (although there are humorous implication no penis is required to have big dick energy or small dick energy) Horse Eye's Back ( talk) 15:37, 11 April 2024 (UTC) reply

@ Bruxton: see this article in The Independent [9]: "But don’t be fooled into thinking you actually need to have a large penis to have BDE - you don’t need to have one at all." Horse Eye's Back ( talk) 15:41, 11 April 2024 (UTC) reply

• With due apologies to the promoter, there is still some concerns over at WT:DYK if the article should have even been promoted yet. As such, the hook's been pulled from prep for now until a consensus either way forms. Narutolovehinata5 ( talk · contributions) 10:44, 14 April 2024 (UTC) reply

No problem, that was probably for the best. There's inherently an issue with DYKs when a negative hook can't be used for an article that's about an inherently negative person, even when NPOV is being respected. For example let's never raise awareness about Hitler or the holocaust because it's negative, let's focus on DKYs about rainbows and puppies instead. CommunityNotesContributor ( talk) 11:04, 14 April 2024 (UTC) reply

ALT3: ...that social media influencer Andrew Tate described himself as "absolutely a misogynist"?

for ALT3. Valereee ( talk) 23:37, 15 April 2024 (UTC) reply

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

2001:8F8:1D1B:5F48:859F:4B2D:6D3E:68A4 (
talk) 04:22, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
reply

Add Miroslav Cingel wiki It’s his second last loss

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. '''[[ User:CanonNi]]''' ( talk| contribs) 04:32, 8 April 2024 (UTC) reply

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

AliM7mdd (
talk) 04:23, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
reply

Add Miroslav Cingel wiki

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. '''[[ User:CanonNi]]''' ( talk| contribs) 04:32, 8 April 2024 (UTC) reply

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

AliM7mdd (
talk) 07:58, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
reply

M

Add Scott Gibson and Miroslav Cingel wiki in his fight record their wiki is available Miroslav Cingel Scott Gibson(Kickboxer)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Do you have a reliable source for information about the fights? PianoDan ( talk) 18:31, 12 April 2024 (UTC) reply

I'm concerned we're putting too much weight on relatively minor aspects of his life, and not enough on what he receives the vast majority of his coverage in reliable sources for - his views, the criticism he has faced, and the charges he is facing.

As a start, I think:

1. We should remove "businessman, and former professional kickboxer" from his list of roles. They receive minimal coverage in reliable sources, and providing them here gives them WP:UNDUE weight
2. We should remove his number of followers and his google popularity; again, these receive minimal coverage in reliable sources and including them is WP:UNDUE
3. We should remove the number of subscribers
4. We should move his self-description as a "misogynistic and sexist" to the first paragraph; it is one of the the most significant aspects about him per coverage in reliable sources.
5. We should merge the third and fifth sentences of the second paragraph, to say After his kickboxing career, Tate and his brother, Tristan, began operating a webcam model business, followed by selling online courses that have been alleged to teach violence against women and coerce women into sex work - I don't think the details of his courses, or the number of subscribers they have gained, are WP:DUE.

BilledMammal ( talk) 11:20, 12 April 2024 (UTC) reply

In response to these points, that aren't only based on MOS:LEAD, but also other sub-guidelines (recent discussion over OPEN can be found here):

1. MOS:FIRSTBIO (first sentence), for example, 4. One, or possibly more, noteworthy positions, activities, or roles that the person is mainly known for, avoiding subjective or contentious terms. 5. The main reason the person is notable (key accomplishment, record, etc.) Note the first sentence, unlike the lead, isn't about what is DUE, but instead basic information.

2. This is about the MOS:OPENPARABIO that follows the structure of MOS:OPEN: provide context, establish notability and explain why the person is notable, and reflect the balance of reliable sources.. His following on X (while banned on nearly every other social media platform), is therefore notable. It's the context related to what is due (social media influence). There are otherwise multiple sources that have referenced Tate's X following in recent months, they are simply not included as don't add anything to the article.

3. This comes back to context of opening paragraph, whereby subscriber count is relevant context given Tate is a social media influence.

4. His self-description as "misogynistic and sexist" was made on a podcast in 2021 (see the body). The fact that many RS have regurgitated this does not make it more due in my opinion, as he's only expressed this once. Being dubbed as the "king of toxic masculinity" should be considered "enough" for the opening paragraph. Taking one statement Tate has made and amplifying it doesn't make sense to me.

5. This I can understand, it could better summarise the lead, and with a growing third paragraph there is logic to refinement. However given the online courses are clearly due, the context related to these (ie subscriber figures) should be considered so as well (even if referenced by less RS). The main issue would be removing the "neutral" aspects over his courses (the data) and leaving only the "negatives". The BBC coverage of The War Room I wouldn't consider due necessarily without the neutral information preceding it for example.

Overall this article has to tread carefully in to respect WP:NPOV, as while the majority of RS is overwhelming negative towards Tate (as reflected in the body), aspects that show Tate in a "good light" should also be referenced, if anything to give credibility to the negativity. I don't think anyone could read the lead and think that it paints a positive picture of Tate, which is an accurate reflection of the RS in the body. I'm therefore not in agreement in making the lead more negative than it already is. I consider it to have already been pushed to it's limits here.

On a personal note: my main issue is with suggestions to whitewash Tate's influence in society, especially within schools and towards young males. His influence is substantial as referenced in the lead, hence it is very clearly due to provide context of notability as per opening paragraph. Pretending like this isn't the case, or that he's "no big deal", or ignoring his substantial and growing following, is an insult to numerous survivors of sexual violence and harassment, by perpetrators influenced by the likes of Tate. Downplaying this is like giving him a pass and excusing him of his influence, which he does not deserve. CommunityNotesContributor ( talk) 16:09, 12 April 2024 (UTC) reply

1. I think my proposal aligns with this; the only noteworthy position he holds is social media personality.

2. I don't think we need to present these figures in the lede to accommodate that; we can say he has a "worldwide profile", "major internet presence", or similar - I think this will be better aligned with both the sources and with our guidelines on the lede. Further, it will present this information without glorifying it.

3. Similar to #2

4. I would think we should remove "king of toxic masculinity" and replace it with the self-description of being misogynistic and sexist - the former has received less attention than the latter, and I am concerned that we are giving undue weight to the grandiose image he is trying to present.

5. The online courses are due in the general, but I don't think they are in the specific - and I also think they are excessive detail for the lede.

BilledMammal ( talk) 16:56, 12 April 2024 (UTC) reply

1. He is widely referenced as a former kickboxing champion in RS, which remains noteworthy. Businessmen can be considered a stretch, but there are RS that confirm this, and his whole "online ventures" which are well documented easily put him in this category on it's own merit. For reference I previously suggested changing the first sentence to simply social media personality, but it was reverted, mainly because it unnecessarily shortens the first sentence, without anything NPOV that can duely replace it.

2/3. Can we find some RS referencing this? I've only come across number of followers referenced in recent months, rather than specifically how notable those numbers are. For example, 10m isn't really that many compared to actual celebrities, so need to avoid MOS:PUFFERY here. While the numbers could be considered too specific detail for the lead (not arguing against that), contextualising it isn't straightforward, there's no obvious category here. Also if anything "he became prominent as an internet celebrity promoting a masculine, luxurious lifestyle" in the second paragraph covers this I think. I otherwise don't see how simply providing the figures without commentary is glorifying anything, these are just the facts, and is better than puffery imo.

4. "king of toxic masculinity" is well referenced, probably as much as his self-description. The latter has flip flopped between the end of first paragraph and the second. You could move it back up and see how long it takes to get reverted over NPOV concerns again, or see if others will engage in discussion here, or both. The relevance being the label is one he has been given, his opinion is one of many. I don't see how this label paints in him a good light, as he doesn't identify as being toxic. It's otherwise pretty accurate.

5. I still think this is about balance. There is detail over his courses in the lead as there is detail over his criminal investigation. Removing the former would make the latter somewhat undue, both of which are well documented by RS.

I'll be honest I'm pretty tired of discussions and changes over the lead in recent months. I'd prefer just to continue updating the article; splitting reception into reception & surveys, and work on building a "response" section with recent information over training and courses in UK & Australian schools to combat Tate's views, as his influence continues to grow and so do the problems in education systems. CommunityNotesContributor ( talk) 10:48, 14 April 2024 (UTC) reply