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This article should have a literal translation of actus reus
It does: it is the Latin for "guilty act". David91 03:03, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
I submit that this article may need to be reworked a little to provide a more clear differentiation between actus reus and attendant circumstance. In the United States in particular, some legal scholars analyze the elements of a crime in up to three categories: the actus reus, the mens rea, and the attendant circumstance. Essentially all crimes have at least one actus reus element. As pointed out in the article, most but not all crimes have a mens rea element. Further, some crimes also have an attendant circumstance element -- which is separate from actus reus and mens rea. In my opinion, this actus reus article is conflating actus reus and attendant circumstance to some extent. Famspear 15:57, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
So, to avoid this conflation, you should consider adding an element specific to the United States. David91 04:30, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I have identified "Attendant circumstance" as specific to the U.S. To the best of my limited knowledge, no other state makes this distinction (and, frankly I do not understand it and would like a specific definition and reference to on-line sources so that I can read up on the theory). I also consolidated the results elements because it is relevant to all two/three classes and not just acts. And the second "key element" currently identified is incomprehensible to an English lawyer. Could you please provide a specific example not dependent on a mental element. The current example of driving "dangerously" is clearly mens rea related because the defendant is only culpable because he or she knows that she suffers from diabetes and, not having eaten recently, has an elevated risk of having a hypoglycaemic episode, or that the vehicle has a mechanical defect, or is driving recklessly, all of which would trigger the policy to justify criminalising the behaviour to protect the public. Many thanks in anticipation of your assistance to clarify this for non-U.S. readers. David91 02:30, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Dear David91: I am a tax practitioner. I do not practice criminal law as such, though criminal tax law issues come up occasionally. The way I remember it from law school is roughly as follows:
In so-called Model Penal Code states in the USA, there are usually four possible levels of mens rea, and each statute defining a crime states (or should state) the level of mens rea required for the offense:
Notice that the mens rea element might or might not apply to the “attendant circumstances,” depending on the crime.
In the USA, tax evasion can be an example of the application of the concepts (note: the Federal tax crime statutes are not based on the “Model Penal Code”). Internal Revenue Code section 7201 provides:
Under this statute and related case law, the prosecution must prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, each of the following three elements:
I argue that the attendant circumstance -- the existence of an unpaid tax – is not really part of the “conduct” of the offender – at least not for purposes of this criminal statute. The way I learned it in law school, “conduct” really refers narrowly to physical acts or failures to act. The following example of Mr. “Joe Baker” is illustrative.
In this situation, I argue that the existence or non-existence of the attendant circumstance (non-existence of a tax liability) is separate from and has nothing to do with Joe’s conduct in filling out the forms, signing them, and mailing them. In this sense, I argue that there is no redundancy in talking about "conduct" as being separate from "attendant circumstance." The non-existence of the attendant circumstance -- an actual unpaid, legally owed tax -- was based only on the fact that the income he happened to receive simply was not taxable under the law in question. The nature of the non-existence of the attendant circumstance was fixed by (A) the applicable law, (B) the fact that his only income was a life insurance benefit, and (C) the fact that the tax year had closed (i.e., on December 31, 2005). All the facts making up the attendant circumstances were fixed long before April of 2006, when he began his conduct -- thinking about evading the “tax” and began his “conduct” of preparing, signing and filing the tax return. Yours, Famspear 05:33, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Given a B as not many links included as readablility and detail could be imporved. High importance, cournerstone of criminal law. Bamkin 19:47, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
The following appears:
Commentator Dennis Baker asserts: "Although lawyers find the expression actus reus convenient, it is misleading in one respect. It means not just the criminal act but all the external elements of an offence. Ordinarily, there is a criminal act, which is what makes the term actus reus generally acceptable. But there are crimes without an act, and therefore without an actus reus in the obvious meaning of that term. The expression “conduct” is more satisfactory, because wider; it covers not only an act but an omission, and (by a stretch) a bodily position. The conduct must sometimes take place in legally relevant circumstances. The relevant circumstances might include consent in the case of rape. The act of sexual intercourse becomes a wrongful act only if it is committed in circumstances where the vagina does not consent. Other crimes require the act to produce a legally forbidden consequence. Such crimes are called result crimes. ... All that can truly be said, without exception, is that a crime requires some external state of affairs that can be categorized as criminal. What goes on inside a person’s head is never enough in itself to constitute a crime, even though it might be proved by a confession that is fully believed to be genuine
Clearly a vagina can't consent (since it is a part of the body). This quote is rather long (possibly too long to be defensible in copyright law in England and Wales anyway). I am not sure it is helpful to have such a long quote in this context either. However, I don't have the source to check the "vagina" point. Can someone who does please check that is there or amend. Francis Davey ( talk) 17:03, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
Why is there no table of contents for this talk page? Seraphim System ( talk) 01:22, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
I added a Globalize tag because this concept is not just relevant to United States or English law, but is relevant in jurisdictions around the world. The article should explore how this concept is relevant in other countries, and give relevant explanations and examples, too. This would make for a globally relevant article. There should be examples from all the criminal jurisdictions mentioned in the lead section. The lead section should provide an accessible overview of the topic, so if something is mentioned in the lead section it should be covered in the body of the article, too. - Cameron Dewe ( talk) 01:05, 23 April 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: |
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A graph should have been displayed here but
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This article should have a literal translation of actus reus
It does: it is the Latin for "guilty act". David91 03:03, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
I submit that this article may need to be reworked a little to provide a more clear differentiation between actus reus and attendant circumstance. In the United States in particular, some legal scholars analyze the elements of a crime in up to three categories: the actus reus, the mens rea, and the attendant circumstance. Essentially all crimes have at least one actus reus element. As pointed out in the article, most but not all crimes have a mens rea element. Further, some crimes also have an attendant circumstance element -- which is separate from actus reus and mens rea. In my opinion, this actus reus article is conflating actus reus and attendant circumstance to some extent. Famspear 15:57, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
So, to avoid this conflation, you should consider adding an element specific to the United States. David91 04:30, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
I have identified "Attendant circumstance" as specific to the U.S. To the best of my limited knowledge, no other state makes this distinction (and, frankly I do not understand it and would like a specific definition and reference to on-line sources so that I can read up on the theory). I also consolidated the results elements because it is relevant to all two/three classes and not just acts. And the second "key element" currently identified is incomprehensible to an English lawyer. Could you please provide a specific example not dependent on a mental element. The current example of driving "dangerously" is clearly mens rea related because the defendant is only culpable because he or she knows that she suffers from diabetes and, not having eaten recently, has an elevated risk of having a hypoglycaemic episode, or that the vehicle has a mechanical defect, or is driving recklessly, all of which would trigger the policy to justify criminalising the behaviour to protect the public. Many thanks in anticipation of your assistance to clarify this for non-U.S. readers. David91 02:30, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Dear David91: I am a tax practitioner. I do not practice criminal law as such, though criminal tax law issues come up occasionally. The way I remember it from law school is roughly as follows:
In so-called Model Penal Code states in the USA, there are usually four possible levels of mens rea, and each statute defining a crime states (or should state) the level of mens rea required for the offense:
Notice that the mens rea element might or might not apply to the “attendant circumstances,” depending on the crime.
In the USA, tax evasion can be an example of the application of the concepts (note: the Federal tax crime statutes are not based on the “Model Penal Code”). Internal Revenue Code section 7201 provides:
Under this statute and related case law, the prosecution must prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, each of the following three elements:
I argue that the attendant circumstance -- the existence of an unpaid tax – is not really part of the “conduct” of the offender – at least not for purposes of this criminal statute. The way I learned it in law school, “conduct” really refers narrowly to physical acts or failures to act. The following example of Mr. “Joe Baker” is illustrative.
In this situation, I argue that the existence or non-existence of the attendant circumstance (non-existence of a tax liability) is separate from and has nothing to do with Joe’s conduct in filling out the forms, signing them, and mailing them. In this sense, I argue that there is no redundancy in talking about "conduct" as being separate from "attendant circumstance." The non-existence of the attendant circumstance -- an actual unpaid, legally owed tax -- was based only on the fact that the income he happened to receive simply was not taxable under the law in question. The nature of the non-existence of the attendant circumstance was fixed by (A) the applicable law, (B) the fact that his only income was a life insurance benefit, and (C) the fact that the tax year had closed (i.e., on December 31, 2005). All the facts making up the attendant circumstances were fixed long before April of 2006, when he began his conduct -- thinking about evading the “tax” and began his “conduct” of preparing, signing and filing the tax return. Yours, Famspear 05:33, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
Given a B as not many links included as readablility and detail could be imporved. High importance, cournerstone of criminal law. Bamkin 19:47, 17 May 2007 (UTC)
The following appears:
Commentator Dennis Baker asserts: "Although lawyers find the expression actus reus convenient, it is misleading in one respect. It means not just the criminal act but all the external elements of an offence. Ordinarily, there is a criminal act, which is what makes the term actus reus generally acceptable. But there are crimes without an act, and therefore without an actus reus in the obvious meaning of that term. The expression “conduct” is more satisfactory, because wider; it covers not only an act but an omission, and (by a stretch) a bodily position. The conduct must sometimes take place in legally relevant circumstances. The relevant circumstances might include consent in the case of rape. The act of sexual intercourse becomes a wrongful act only if it is committed in circumstances where the vagina does not consent. Other crimes require the act to produce a legally forbidden consequence. Such crimes are called result crimes. ... All that can truly be said, without exception, is that a crime requires some external state of affairs that can be categorized as criminal. What goes on inside a person’s head is never enough in itself to constitute a crime, even though it might be proved by a confession that is fully believed to be genuine
Clearly a vagina can't consent (since it is a part of the body). This quote is rather long (possibly too long to be defensible in copyright law in England and Wales anyway). I am not sure it is helpful to have such a long quote in this context either. However, I don't have the source to check the "vagina" point. Can someone who does please check that is there or amend. Francis Davey ( talk) 17:03, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
Why is there no table of contents for this talk page? Seraphim System ( talk) 01:22, 9 April 2017 (UTC)
I added a Globalize tag because this concept is not just relevant to United States or English law, but is relevant in jurisdictions around the world. The article should explore how this concept is relevant in other countries, and give relevant explanations and examples, too. This would make for a globally relevant article. There should be examples from all the criminal jurisdictions mentioned in the lead section. The lead section should provide an accessible overview of the topic, so if something is mentioned in the lead section it should be covered in the body of the article, too. - Cameron Dewe ( talk) 01:05, 23 April 2023 (UTC)