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24 Hours of Le Mans article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on May 27, 2005, May 27, 2008, and May 27, 2009. |
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24 Hours of Le Mans received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
In order to improve the usefullness of the talk page, I have archived the previous talk page here [ [1]]. I only archived material I felt was no longer in date. If you disagree with any of the changes, feel free to make changes of your own. DrMotley ( talk) 14:06, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
Looking at Le Mans cars from the late 1960s, I’m surprised that this wasn’t mentioned as a major influence to the Speed Racer cartoon. 209.54.10.84 ( talk) 16:35, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
The "1982–1993" section reads
But the Innovations/Aerodynamics section does not seem to acknowledge this
It seems to me that if Peugeot reached 406 km/h in 1989 under qualifying or race conditions then the Innovations/Aerodynamics section should reference this instead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by User5910 ( talk • contribs) 20:00, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
From the back of mind mind both the Welter Peugeot and the Sauber C-9 were clocked at 405kph (+/- 3kph). But it was the Welter Peugeot that achieved the speed during the race while the Sauber Mercedes did during qualifying. So officially the speed record goes to Roger Dorchy (driver) and the Welter Racing WM-Peugeot. The Welter car was a very tiny car for reduced drag, it was not only very difficult to drive, but also the air intakes were partially taped over to improve aerodynamics and was retired early into the race with overheating problems. The Sauber Mercedes instead was a proper racecar competing for overall victory, but as it was turbocharged the drivers could increase the power output of the engine in qualifying to maximize speed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.202.141.61 ( talk) 23:34, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
References
This is not mentioned in the article. Fotoguzzi ( talk) 00:42, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
I have added the template for lack of references to the article. For an article of it's size and content there needs to be more than 13 references. Most of the material here is unreferenced, and the referenced material tends to be of a trivial nature. I can see from above that this subject was broached last year, but this needs another look. DrMotley ( talk) 13:59, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
The article mentions "TERS" without a link or explanation. Does anybody know what it is? — SkyLined ( talk) 21:51, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
For the record, the Targa Florio was never run except as a rally. It was run on a closed course, but not as a circuit race, like Le Mans, with all cars starting at once. Krevlornswath of the Deathwok Clan I hate L.A. 02:44, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but shouldn't the objective of the race, i.e. to get the maximum number of laps in 24 hours, be mentioned right at the top? After over half an hour of reading, I finally found this in the section "Classification". A bit long since that's all I wanted to know, don't you think?
Also, I don't think "Classification" is a good title for this section. The idea that being classified as a finisher is the main objective might be inferred by the reader, yet cannot be assumed. A title such as "Race Objective" would be more appropriate.
And more generally, the article seems not very well structured and slightly bloated. A bit too much like telling a story, to my mind. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.184.83 ( talk) 22:33, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
At six paragraphs the introduction before the table of contents is too long. It should be more brief and it may hinder readers' interest and understanding of the topic, as it did for me. Can some capable people trim and enhance the article please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by CyberdyneT850Model101 ( talk • contribs) 14:12, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
Hi, I don't know if this is the right place to mention this problem, but Commons:Category:24 Hours of Le Mans by year needs some attention. Its subcategories (especially the ones of races in the 20th century) contain many files showing objects that don't match with the (Le Mans race) categories they are categorized in. For example the files are showing Le Mans racecars which are not racing in the specific Le Mans races (maybe racing in another race, for exampe this Ferrari Dino 166P that is racing at 1000 km Nürburgring), but due to the categorization it appears as if they do so. This categorization system is causing following problems:
In addition you will also find files showing objects that lack any relation to 24 Hours of Le Mans races. For example they are showing cars that look somehow similar to cars that have participated in the specific Le Mans races, but they have obviously never done it themselves (for exampe this Renault 4CV).
In my opinion Commons:Category:24 Hours of Le Mans by year would be more scientific and make searches for files easier if they contain only files that match with the topics of these categories. Do you see the point and is anybody ready to clean up? -- 217.227.98.52 ( talk) 14:44, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
I would like to suggest renaming the section "Since 2006" to "2006-2013". Not right now, but probably upon the conclusion of the 2013 or 2014 race.
With major regulation changes expected for 2014, I feel it may be a good point in time to create a new section, with "Since 2014"
Gojet-64 ( talk) 08:13, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Some of the major regulation changes include:
Sources: [2] [3] Gojet-64 ( talk) 00:10, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
Someone please remove the link to the Danish soccer player Allan Simonsen - it is not he who died in the 2013 accident. /Mads — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.163.125.242 ( talk) 18:56, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Is it really commonly known as the "Grand Prix of Endurance and Efficiency"? It may have been called such at certain points, it may be commonly known as this in French or some other language, I don't know, but I don't think that is has been called anything commonly in English but the "24 Hours of Le Mans" for the duration of my memory, which is five decades or so. 166.152.32.247 ( talk) 23:15, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Because this is its original name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.196.175.233 ( talk) 16:38, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no move. -- tariqabjotu 03:22, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
24 Hours of Le Mans → Le Mans 24 Hours – Because of WP:COMMONNAME, Petecarney ( talk) 14:29, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
Archived discussion here
Compare the two options at Googlefight Petecarney ( talk) 14:29, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
Gentlemen, I'm astonished by the apparent complete disregard for the principles on which Wikipedia is based - verifiable facts. WP:COMMONNAME indicates how the facts in this matter should be ascertained and that shows 'Le Mans 24 Hours' to be at least 5 times more prevalent than the present name of this article. I think there may be a tendency for some to see the French title '24 heures du Mans' and unconsciously read it as '24 hours of Le Mans'. Checking the facts shows up the error. Excluding dead links, all except one of the references to the article which refer directly to the race, use 'Le Mans 24 Hours' (with or without a final 's') in preference to the current title of this article. References 1,4,6,12,15,16,17,18 have 'Le Mans 24 Hour(s)'. Reference 20 has 'the 24hr Le Mans race'. Reference 7 (referenced 5 times) Uses both forms of the name with 'Le Mans 24 Hours' the most common by a ratio of 2 to 1. The English language version of the ACO official site http://www.lemans.org/en/ has 'LE MANS 24 HOURS' in pole position on the first of the four rotating banners at the top of the page. It is demonstrably true that 'Le Mans 24 Hours' is both the official usage and the overwhelmingly common name in English. So let's adhere to the principles of Wikipedia - that verifiable facts overrule personal opinions and fallible memories. Petecarney ( talk) 13:03, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
Footnote: this seems to be a British v US thing. With a 'Googlefight' weighted using Brit or US keywords, 'Le Mans 24 Hours' shows up as approx one-third of the British results (and - more tellingly - in around 80% of references in mainstream media such as The Times and the Daily Telegraph), but a barely believable 0.0001% of US results.
So the article title should follow the British way, because we're nearer the race venue.
Onanoff (
talk) 15:08, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
(Sorry if I've formatted or added this incorrectly) This section states that the rules for drivers were changed in 1990 to the 14 hour max per driver with 4 hour max periods. The original "Le Mans" movie released in 1971 has a section prior to the start of the race that the announcer states rules changes that include the 14 hour max total time per driver, the max 4 hour period per driver, a mandatory 1 hour rest time for each driver between periods, and the requirement that the start of the race the drivers be in the vehicle with harnesses secured prior to engine start.
I removed the word "unique" from a section heading, because some of the things described in that section are not unique. I was reverted for no reason by a user who makes a habit of doing that. More surprisingly, I was then reverted three more times by people who apparently don't understand the meaning of the word unique. Some of the things in the section are indeed unique to Le Mans; others are not, as their edit summaries even acknowledged, so the word should obviously not be used in the section heading. Either that, or the things that are not unique to Le Mans must be removed. Which shall it be? 200.83.101.225 ( talk) 21:44, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
“Roger Dorchy to set a recorded speed of 405 km/h (252 mph) down the Mulsanne in a publicity stunt”
Whether this was publicity stunt or not is not relevant to the content of the page. Dorchy either set a record or he didn't. His motivations for doing it are largely irrelevant. Flanker235 ( talk) 04:56, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
The current version mixes different varieties of English – for example, “The race is organized” and “specialised racing cars”. English is not an official or majority language in France. Accordingly, the MoS, which calls for consistency within an article, directs – Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Retaining the existing variety – that the article should “use the variety found in the first post-stub revision that introduced an identifiable variety.” The oldest version of the article was not a stub and used “organizers.” Therefore, it seems to me that the article should be made consistent on AE spelling. JamesMLane t c 10:07, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
This article still claims that the top class is LMP1, which hasn't been allowed to run (besides non-hybrid "grandfathered" cars) since 2021, and has been replaced by LMH (and LMDh since 2023). The "Cars" section needs to be updated to reflect this. CharlotteGaskell ( talk) 17:32, 10 June 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
24 Hours of Le Mans article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on May 27, 2005, May 27, 2008, and May 27, 2009. |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: |
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
24 Hours of Le Mans received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
In order to improve the usefullness of the talk page, I have archived the previous talk page here [ [1]]. I only archived material I felt was no longer in date. If you disagree with any of the changes, feel free to make changes of your own. DrMotley ( talk) 14:06, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
Looking at Le Mans cars from the late 1960s, I’m surprised that this wasn’t mentioned as a major influence to the Speed Racer cartoon. 209.54.10.84 ( talk) 16:35, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
The "1982–1993" section reads
But the Innovations/Aerodynamics section does not seem to acknowledge this
It seems to me that if Peugeot reached 406 km/h in 1989 under qualifying or race conditions then the Innovations/Aerodynamics section should reference this instead. — Preceding unsigned comment added by User5910 ( talk • contribs) 20:00, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
From the back of mind mind both the Welter Peugeot and the Sauber C-9 were clocked at 405kph (+/- 3kph). But it was the Welter Peugeot that achieved the speed during the race while the Sauber Mercedes did during qualifying. So officially the speed record goes to Roger Dorchy (driver) and the Welter Racing WM-Peugeot. The Welter car was a very tiny car for reduced drag, it was not only very difficult to drive, but also the air intakes were partially taped over to improve aerodynamics and was retired early into the race with overheating problems. The Sauber Mercedes instead was a proper racecar competing for overall victory, but as it was turbocharged the drivers could increase the power output of the engine in qualifying to maximize speed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.202.141.61 ( talk) 23:34, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
References
This is not mentioned in the article. Fotoguzzi ( talk) 00:42, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
I have added the template for lack of references to the article. For an article of it's size and content there needs to be more than 13 references. Most of the material here is unreferenced, and the referenced material tends to be of a trivial nature. I can see from above that this subject was broached last year, but this needs another look. DrMotley ( talk) 13:59, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
The article mentions "TERS" without a link or explanation. Does anybody know what it is? — SkyLined ( talk) 21:51, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
For the record, the Targa Florio was never run except as a rally. It was run on a closed course, but not as a circuit race, like Le Mans, with all cars starting at once. Krevlornswath of the Deathwok Clan I hate L.A. 02:44, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but shouldn't the objective of the race, i.e. to get the maximum number of laps in 24 hours, be mentioned right at the top? After over half an hour of reading, I finally found this in the section "Classification". A bit long since that's all I wanted to know, don't you think?
Also, I don't think "Classification" is a good title for this section. The idea that being classified as a finisher is the main objective might be inferred by the reader, yet cannot be assumed. A title such as "Race Objective" would be more appropriate.
And more generally, the article seems not very well structured and slightly bloated. A bit too much like telling a story, to my mind. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.184.83 ( talk) 22:33, 23 May 2012 (UTC)
At six paragraphs the introduction before the table of contents is too long. It should be more brief and it may hinder readers' interest and understanding of the topic, as it did for me. Can some capable people trim and enhance the article please? — Preceding unsigned comment added by CyberdyneT850Model101 ( talk • contribs) 14:12, 18 June 2012 (UTC)
Hi, I don't know if this is the right place to mention this problem, but Commons:Category:24 Hours of Le Mans by year needs some attention. Its subcategories (especially the ones of races in the 20th century) contain many files showing objects that don't match with the (Le Mans race) categories they are categorized in. For example the files are showing Le Mans racecars which are not racing in the specific Le Mans races (maybe racing in another race, for exampe this Ferrari Dino 166P that is racing at 1000 km Nürburgring), but due to the categorization it appears as if they do so. This categorization system is causing following problems:
In addition you will also find files showing objects that lack any relation to 24 Hours of Le Mans races. For example they are showing cars that look somehow similar to cars that have participated in the specific Le Mans races, but they have obviously never done it themselves (for exampe this Renault 4CV).
In my opinion Commons:Category:24 Hours of Le Mans by year would be more scientific and make searches for files easier if they contain only files that match with the topics of these categories. Do you see the point and is anybody ready to clean up? -- 217.227.98.52 ( talk) 14:44, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
I would like to suggest renaming the section "Since 2006" to "2006-2013". Not right now, but probably upon the conclusion of the 2013 or 2014 race.
With major regulation changes expected for 2014, I feel it may be a good point in time to create a new section, with "Since 2014"
Gojet-64 ( talk) 08:13, 17 January 2013 (UTC)
Some of the major regulation changes include:
Sources: [2] [3] Gojet-64 ( talk) 00:10, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
Someone please remove the link to the Danish soccer player Allan Simonsen - it is not he who died in the 2013 accident. /Mads — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.163.125.242 ( talk) 18:56, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Is it really commonly known as the "Grand Prix of Endurance and Efficiency"? It may have been called such at certain points, it may be commonly known as this in French or some other language, I don't know, but I don't think that is has been called anything commonly in English but the "24 Hours of Le Mans" for the duration of my memory, which is five decades or so. 166.152.32.247 ( talk) 23:15, 22 June 2013 (UTC)
Because this is its original name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.196.175.233 ( talk) 16:38, 30 July 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no move. -- tariqabjotu 03:22, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
24 Hours of Le Mans → Le Mans 24 Hours – Because of WP:COMMONNAME, Petecarney ( talk) 14:29, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
Archived discussion here
Compare the two options at Googlefight Petecarney ( talk) 14:29, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
Gentlemen, I'm astonished by the apparent complete disregard for the principles on which Wikipedia is based - verifiable facts. WP:COMMONNAME indicates how the facts in this matter should be ascertained and that shows 'Le Mans 24 Hours' to be at least 5 times more prevalent than the present name of this article. I think there may be a tendency for some to see the French title '24 heures du Mans' and unconsciously read it as '24 hours of Le Mans'. Checking the facts shows up the error. Excluding dead links, all except one of the references to the article which refer directly to the race, use 'Le Mans 24 Hours' (with or without a final 's') in preference to the current title of this article. References 1,4,6,12,15,16,17,18 have 'Le Mans 24 Hour(s)'. Reference 20 has 'the 24hr Le Mans race'. Reference 7 (referenced 5 times) Uses both forms of the name with 'Le Mans 24 Hours' the most common by a ratio of 2 to 1. The English language version of the ACO official site http://www.lemans.org/en/ has 'LE MANS 24 HOURS' in pole position on the first of the four rotating banners at the top of the page. It is demonstrably true that 'Le Mans 24 Hours' is both the official usage and the overwhelmingly common name in English. So let's adhere to the principles of Wikipedia - that verifiable facts overrule personal opinions and fallible memories. Petecarney ( talk) 13:03, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
Footnote: this seems to be a British v US thing. With a 'Googlefight' weighted using Brit or US keywords, 'Le Mans 24 Hours' shows up as approx one-third of the British results (and - more tellingly - in around 80% of references in mainstream media such as The Times and the Daily Telegraph), but a barely believable 0.0001% of US results.
So the article title should follow the British way, because we're nearer the race venue.
Onanoff (
talk) 15:08, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
(Sorry if I've formatted or added this incorrectly) This section states that the rules for drivers were changed in 1990 to the 14 hour max per driver with 4 hour max periods. The original "Le Mans" movie released in 1971 has a section prior to the start of the race that the announcer states rules changes that include the 14 hour max total time per driver, the max 4 hour period per driver, a mandatory 1 hour rest time for each driver between periods, and the requirement that the start of the race the drivers be in the vehicle with harnesses secured prior to engine start.
I removed the word "unique" from a section heading, because some of the things described in that section are not unique. I was reverted for no reason by a user who makes a habit of doing that. More surprisingly, I was then reverted three more times by people who apparently don't understand the meaning of the word unique. Some of the things in the section are indeed unique to Le Mans; others are not, as their edit summaries even acknowledged, so the word should obviously not be used in the section heading. Either that, or the things that are not unique to Le Mans must be removed. Which shall it be? 200.83.101.225 ( talk) 21:44, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
“Roger Dorchy to set a recorded speed of 405 km/h (252 mph) down the Mulsanne in a publicity stunt”
Whether this was publicity stunt or not is not relevant to the content of the page. Dorchy either set a record or he didn't. His motivations for doing it are largely irrelevant. Flanker235 ( talk) 04:56, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
The current version mixes different varieties of English – for example, “The race is organized” and “specialised racing cars”. English is not an official or majority language in France. Accordingly, the MoS, which calls for consistency within an article, directs – Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Retaining the existing variety – that the article should “use the variety found in the first post-stub revision that introduced an identifiable variety.” The oldest version of the article was not a stub and used “organizers.” Therefore, it seems to me that the article should be made consistent on AE spelling. JamesMLane t c 10:07, 17 May 2020 (UTC)
This article still claims that the top class is LMP1, which hasn't been allowed to run (besides non-hybrid "grandfathered" cars) since 2021, and has been replaced by LMH (and LMDh since 2023). The "Cars" section needs to be updated to reflect this. CharlotteGaskell ( talk) 17:32, 10 June 2023 (UTC)