1755 Lisbon earthquake is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Masterful job Muriel! The combination of the historical and geological angles is truly superb. Wikipedia is lucky to have you here! -- Viajero 09:42, 3 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Hi, According to the American Heritage Dictionary (4th ed), tidal wave also means tsunami. Why use a fancy Japanese word when we have a plain English one? -- Viajero 21:00, 29 Oct 2003 (UTC)
To Muriel : ALthough we use the therm tsunami, the correct portuguese word is "maremoto." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.39.1.41 ( talk) 18:06, August 25, 2007 (UTC)
Tidal wave is to Tsunami as Monkey is to Ape. Frequent misuse does not make it right. The Librarian violently attacks anyone who refers to him as a monkey! -- Diamonddavej ( talk) 20:02, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Tidal wave is a term used incorrectly to describe a tsunami. Tidal waves are caused by the tides, tsunamis are created by other seismic activity
such as volcanoes and earthquakes. I think tsunami is also a wave created by a meteor strike but i'm unsure on this. Adam Smith 22/02/2009
The reference to Marquis of Pombal seems ambiguous:
Was he surpressing the Jesuits for hanging people? Or did he also use the earthquake as an excuse to surpress the Jesuits. (I assume the latter). Perhaps this could be disambiguated. Viajero 14:11, 2 Nov 2003 (UTC)
FYI, Susan Nieman treats the Lisbon quake and (on a few pages) Pombal in her Evil In Modern Thought. I have yet to read it, but in an as-yet-unpublished review of this book, Edward T. Oakes, SJ, writes that Pombal "even had a Jesuit preacher of the old Sodom-and-Gomorrah style arrested on trumped-up charges and executed an Enlightenment version of an auto-da-fé! For to his mind, it was precisely the old theological interpretation[namely, that disasters were punishments for the peoples' sins -KJJ] that was preventing the authorities from addressing a natural catastrophe on natural terms." -- KJJ 15:56, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
Tsunamis up to twenty meters in height swept the coast from North Africa to Finland and across the Atlantic to Martinique and Barbados. Finland? Look on a map; that's unreasonable. It should perhaps be Norway? -FredrikM
Wasn't there an auto de fé soon after the earthquake? This may be where the hanging priests allegation was referring to. Will have to look this up - many heretics were burnt, rather than hanged, in a typical auto-de-fé, anyhow. I don't know whether an auto-de-fé was called *specifically* to purge the city of the sins that had brought about divine punishment. Hasdrubal 15:41, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
Yes - I've found numerous references to the same... in fact I surfed to this page accidentally after reading about Auto de Fé and how they were conducted following the earthquake. I have updated the page with a paragraph under the Voltaire section as he makes direct reference to the acts in one of his contemporary writings.
Kinda puts the inane argument about hanging into perspective doesn't it. -- 62.173.76.218 10:59, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
For the individual who "found numerous references to the same" - I would be very interested in your references. The only references I could find were regarding Voltaire’s “Candide.” For your information, "Candide" was a satire - NOT a "report" on the alleged activities of the Catholic Church after the earthquake, as you state in the article. As Edward Peters writes in "Inquisition," (pp. 178-181) “A superficial knowledge of the inquisitions and Voltaire’s willingness to use them for generally satirical purposes is evident in his work until very late in his life…” and “The use of the inquisitions by Voltaire is simply the casual, routine depiction of the satirized 18th Century world, more comic and foolish than deadly. Even the satire of the Inquisition in Candide (1759) reveals no greater knowledge of or concern with the inquisitions than Voltaire’s ordinary reading in personal memoirs, travel literature and history.” Peters goes on to describe the scene in which Pangloss and Candide are arrested by an Inquisition officer because Pangloss seemed to be doubting original sin and free will. “These are positions that Voltaire himself condemned in the thought of Leibniz, and the official of the Inquisition thus serves Voltaire’s own purposes.”
Peters goes on: “One of Voltaire’s sources for the auto de fe appears to have been Dellon’s “Relation de l’inquisition de Goa,” which was published in 1688 and frequently reprinted during the 18th Century. However, the entire chapter is a jewel of Voltairean satire. From the mighty conclusions of the University of Coimbra, the deliberate trivializing of the offenses of the accused, the relentless focusing on the evident visual and ritual absurdity of the auto de fe by depriving it of any meaning other than visual….Voltaire introduces the topic of the Inquisition to comic literature.”
Voltaire hated any kind of religious persecution, and as Peters (and others) write, before 1761, the satirical tool he used to attack attitudes of bigotry and intolerance that he perceived in any human society, religious or non-religious, Christian or non-Christian, Catholic or Protestant, was the “non-specific inquisition.” After 1761, all of that changed. The public outcry over the injustice of Pombal’s treatment of the priest, Gabriel Malagrida, was enormous. A poem by Juan Luc Poggi entitled “The apotheos of Father Malagrida,” and a three act play by de Longchamp entitled “Malagrida,” were only a few works comdemning Pombal’s actions. Voltaire’s voice was one of the loudest. So, while Candide was a satire arising from no particular or specific case, as you seem to think, the “Sermon of Rabbi Akiba,” published about 2 months after Malagrida was killed, was very specific to Malagrida. In it, Voltaire, through the voice of a near-eastern Jew, indicted ALL forms of religious persecution, in particular the execution of Father Malagrida.
Therefore, I am removing your paragraph implying that Candide was some sort of news report on actual happenings after the Lisbon quake, a “reference to the response of the Catholic Church to the earthquake,” In addition, the auto de fe was not a “rite of the Catholic Inquisition in which those convicted of having caused the earthquake through their heresy accepted their sins in a form of public penance.” That statement is completely wrong in point of historical fact. I have spent a great deal of time and effort examining this issue, and it will take more than your simple misunderstanding of Voltaire’s satire to allege, with no proof whatsoever, that the Catholic Church burned anyone at the stake in Lisbon for "having caused the earthquake through their heresy" or, for any other reason! Polycarp7 16:48, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
I was logged in when I made the deletion, but by the time I hit the save button, my session timed out and it doesn’t show my name, only my IP address. polycarp7 10:19 12 April. Polycarp7 02:21, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Where is your source for the allegation that "priests roamed the city hanging people suspected of heresy on sight"? I say it never happened, and that this is a total distortion of what really happened in the aftermath of the tsunami of 1755. Since this allegation has been in the news recently, virtually plaguerized by many writers from CBS News to The Washington Post, it is important that you at least show some respected historical evidence for this allegation. Otherwise, it would seem that this is just another false charge that was leveled against the much maligned Jesuits of the time, and carried over into today.
There is no need to take the Lord's Name. Yes, I disagree vehemently with the allegation, but am asking that the writer cite their source - as it states clearly on the Edit Page: "Please cite your sources so others can check your work." I have been checking into the truth of this allegation, and have others doing so, yet can find nothing at all. It is like trying to prove a negative. I assert, then, that it was simply made up, and never happened. I am not going to change it - I am simply going to leave it for all to read, that the writer cited no source, because no source exists except within the writer's mind.
"Was he surpressing the Jesuits for hanging people? Or did he also use the earthquake as an excuse to surpress the Jesuits. (I assume the latter). Perhaps this could be disambiguated. Viajero 14:11, 2 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Rather than question the truth of this preposterous claim, you answered the question, giving credence to the unattributed allegation, as though it were true. I am still asking for a credible source for this allegation, posted on this site since October of 2003, with no source cited. Theresa (user polycarp7).
FWIW,
About.com has a picture of hangings in the aftermath of the earthquake, with the commentary Signs of crime, disorder, and disease are evident, and criminals are being hanged under the supervision of soldiers and priests. I suspect that the crimes involved were looting and suchlike rather than heresy, however.
Mark
1 03:46, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Since it appears I have been criticized for not changing the 1755 Lisbon article, I will do two things:
I'm a little confused... Although it appears that the original claim that priests went around hanging those who may have angered god appears not to be strongly enough substantiated, the current version of the article makes no mention of the priests who were (according to citation) involved in the executions, and further, it claims that the executions were specifically for looting, a point which I have not seen substantiated in the citations. If indeed the article originally contained a bias, the correct procedure for correcting it is not to insert bias in the other direction. Can someone unburdened by religious affiliation to the issue at hand please comment on this matter based on the historical data? -- Gmaxwell 23:31, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
After the "hanging priests" controversy began, I started looking into this issue — I in fact posted the image of the hanging. The two priests in the image appear to be delivering last rites (one holds a cross, the other, possibly, a prayer book or Bible). I was completely unable to find any support whatsoever for the allegation that priests assigned responsibility or exacted arbitrary vengeance in the wake of the disaster (and believe me, I looked for it!). Though the reference to the 34 hanged looters did not come from me (and I wish it were footnoted, so I could check it out myself), it is in keeping with other observations and accounts, notably from English travellers, who mentioned the construction of gallows to deter looting. You note a bias "in the other direction," and I'm curious what seems biased to you now. I myself feel the article is balanced at this point. Sandover 22:44, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
This article is really superb and if only someone would add some references, it would imho be ready to be a featured article-- XmarkX 14:28, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I've now added a few references, at least ones with which I am familiar and which are reliable. There aren't many easy references for this particular subject. If someone could post a few more links, I am sure readers would be grateful.
This is article is so broad-ranged and wide-shouldered, it's impossible to source everything in it. But it's a delight to read, because it so succinctly combines many different points of view (including the historical, philosophical, religious, scientific and political). Very readable, too; part of it flows like a thriller.
Yes, it was a diamond-in-the-rough when I and a few others began editing on it in late December 2004, after the Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami. It's been nominated before, but I think it's time has come to be actually be a Featured article.
Below are a few souvenirs of some ancient edit wars. Most of what people are arguing about here is now deleted completely. Sandover 05:05, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I removed the following section:
Because the darker skin theory is crap: Portuguese were maryying and having children with the natives from colonies ever since the XIV century - nothing to do with the earthquake. I wonder were is said that portuguese are darker than Spanish - it is certainly not popular thought since colour is not really a thing one thinks about in this part of the world... The idea of making a parallel with the earthquake and the decline of the Portuguese Empire is tempting but incorrect. The Empire was already going down the drain, since the time Portugal and Spain were a Personal Union under the Habsburgs and the Habsburgs were quarrelling with the rest of Europe. Actually the Pombal government was a peak of the empire's fortunes. muriel@pt 10:44, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
This article is terrific! -
Pedro 11:50, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
"Destruction was generalized". Is it English? – Kpalion (talk) 23:08, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Yes it is. English English, in fact. Sandover 01:44, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I don't know enough to have an opinion on the importance of Kant's natural-philosophy explanations of the Lisbon quake on the evolution of seismology -- though it seems reasonable to call them "forerunners" as very early and semi-scientific/non-supernatural explanations. If it helps, my source for this claim was Walter Benjamin's children's-radio broadcast text on the quake. -- Rbellin| Talk 03:27, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
If Walter Benjamin says Kant is a forerunner in seismology, well, I'd go with that. But if Benjamin only talks about the nature of Kant's speculations on gases (which are appropriate in this entry, but only really to set up Kant's fascination with the subject), let's leave the edit as is, and not call him a "forerunner" for this work. I feel it is more accurate for the article to say the science of seismology developed out of observations made by forerunners like the Jesuits, who took notes and made observations on the order of Pombal...that's all very well-established. Sandover 03:37, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
This is Benjamin's passage on Kant and the quake:
I'll leave it up to other editors whether any of this belongs in the article. -- Rbellin| Talk 04:26, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The problem with emphasising Kant's innovation in his approach is that scientific/atomistic accounts of earthquakes date back at least at least to the Epicureans (Kant is known to have read Lucretius, 1st century BC, who offers theories in book 6 of his de rerum natura). Perhaps the significance of Kant's work needs more qualification. 86.180.8.152 ( talk) 15:13, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
For those who are trying to track down the controversy mentioned in the Wikipedia Quarto, here are the two parts of the article by Theresa E. Carpinelli on the issue: Part One, Part Two. JesseW 5 July 2005 22:03 (UTC)
I'm no geologist, but it looks to me like Lisbon is pretty close to the border between the Eurasian and African plates. See Image:Tectonic_plates.png. — Ливай | Ⓣ 01:15, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
Great article! One line in the header I would have liked to see more of, though, is the claim that the quake disrupted Portugal's colonial ambitions. This strikes me as entirely plausible, but I'd like to see a little more explanation of why (disruption of economy? Loss of fleet?) and what stage these colonial ambitions were at; since it's in the header, it would nice to have a bit of follow-up. Again, nice work and a very interesting read... -- Dvyost 23:57, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
The UK government of the time voted some money for the relief of the situation. Did others governments/groups also do so- and were there earlier examples of international disaster relief?
I was never able to find out how long after the earthquake the tsunami struck, but I know it wasn't "several" minutes (as in five or ten minutes after the quake). Was it 30 minutes? 40 minutes? 50 minutes? I just don't know. But it was a decent interval, and that's the origin of the awkward "tens of minutes" phrase. While I know "several minutes after" reads better, it reinforces the false assumption that the tsunami happened almost immediately after the quake. Sandover 19:25, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Excellent article, editors, no wonder it's a Featured Article! I have just passed this article for inclusion in Wikipedia:Version 0.5 as part of the Featured Article review.
While this article is in very good shape, I do notice a few things that could be done to improve it.
Again, keep up the good work! - Runningonbrains 22:46, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Good article, but I find one citation of a book therein that seems to not exist. The Charles B. Brooks book from 1994 titled: "Disaster at Lisbon, The Great Earthquake of 1755" is not found anywhere in my search except for a short listing at Barnes and Noble web site. The publisher was Brooks House, which I also do not find. Sounds like a self published book that only the Library of Congress would have a copy of. And no, I did not find the book listed at Abebooks.com, either. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Handel8 ( talk • contribs).
That is all very nice, but for the rest of us, the book does not exist for all intents and purposes. If the press run of this was very small and has no ISBN, that indicates to me it was purely a vanity publication. A little like you or me writing a book and getting someone local to print a hundred crude copies to be sold at speaking events. If the book is as good as you say, the least the author could do at this point would be to offer it through Amazon as a download, which they do for many books that are out of print. I for one would be interested in the contents of this book. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.29.40.164 ( talk • contribs).
Of a Lisbon population of 275,000, up to 90,000 were killed?!
The total population of Lisbon in 1755 is estimated in about 100 000 habitants. [2]
This numbers came from where?! Need source.
GPC 13:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Only a fool can believe in such numbers. The correct number lies between 10 000 to 15 000. Ponder the numbers carefully.
This error will persist for a long time as it continues to reproduce... The latest reproduction I know is from ENCYCLOPÆDIA BRITANNICA ALMANAC 2008 wich states Magnittude: 8.7 (fair enough) victims: 70 000 (today 10 000 to 15 000 is not "a lot" so I guess people just come out with a number that impresses enough, I don't know. But I know this: it's just a shameless lucky number that they throw in the air. GC —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.240.116.61 ( talk) 21:43, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Read this: They say the estimated 3,000 dead in the grave were victims of the earthquake that devastated Lisbon in 1755, and that this is the first mass grave of its kind ever found in the Portuguese capital ( http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2007-04-28-massgrave_N.htm)
Now think about where to buried 90 000... Don't you think that many mass graves will exist. The more you think about it the more you'll see how ridiculous are those childish numbers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.240.116.61 ( talk) 21:49, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
I'm currently involved in a discusssion at Talk:Basel earthquake over what the article should be called. I argue that based on the literature, and articles like this one, it should be called 1356 Basel earthquake (the original title before it was moved to Basel earthquake). Has there been discussion here on what the name of this featured article should be? Any input over there would be appreciated, as well as any help to expand the article. Thanks. Carcharoth 02:36, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
First, the coma and the point are decimal separators. For easy reading, one must use a space not a coma nor a point. See BIPM or ISO.
About the population of Lisbon in 1755: Taking 60 000 in 1422 and 85 000 in 1528 we get about 176 000. In 1755 the population of Lisbon was about 176 000. The tragedy (earthquake, tsunami and fire) kill about 12 000. (I am searching suitable web references. You shoud do it too. Harvard is a good place to start (they have many original documents about it). It's not easy. As it's not easy to find that the name of Alves dos Reis was in fact Alves Reis because everybody puts "dos". And I mean everybody. And yet...) These are the numbers. All the rest is imagination and blind bets.
To discart the 275 000 as the population number, it is enough to look at the present numbers of cities population. (Not even Porto as that population [3] ) To discart numbers of victims like 90 000 it is enough to have comum sense. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gil Costa ( talk • contribs).
Apparently the author of this famous phrase was D. Pedro de Almeida, Marquês de Alorna!
7 Avisos, decretos reais e providências
Na sequência do terramoto o governo português tomou de imediato uma série de medidas com vista a minorar os inúmeros problemas surgidos, cujo pragmatismo está bem evidenciado na célebre afirmação: 'enterrar os mortos, cuidar dos vivos e fechar os portos', proferida por D. Pedro de Almeida, Marquês de Alorna, mas com frequência atribuída ao Secretario de Estado dos Negócios Estrangeiros e da Guerra, Sebastião José de Carvalho e Melo, futuro Marquês de Pombal.
The entry on The Book of the Damned claims a perhaps supernatural disappearance of several hundred people from a shelter, found in 2006. It appears to be a reference to this [4], however the story is a rather more straightforward discovery of a mass grave. Can anyone shed any light? MartinSFSA ( talk) 13:30, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Intro states ' Geologists today estimate the Lisbon earthquake approached magnitude 9 on the Richter scale...'. Should there be a reference for this? Especially as the page on the Richter magnitude scale says the effective limit of measurement is about 6.8. 84.203.76.74 ( talk) 22:04, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
A group of researchers associated with the University of Évora has been developing for the past 5 years a virtual recreation of Lisbon just before the 1755 earthquake (a project of virtual archeology), with several links to further documentation related to the architecture and culture of Baroque Lisbon, as well as pointers to more research done around the earthquake which is not mentioned in this Wiki page. This link has featured on this page on the past, but due to successive revisions, it was deleted.
I'll leave it here on the discussion page as a proposal for inclusion: http://lisbon-pre-1755-earthquake.org/
-- Gwyneth Llewelyn ( talk) 19:03, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Interestingly, at least one paragraph of this article appears practically verbatim in a published book: The Illustrated History of Natural Disasters By Jan Kozák, Vladimir Cermák: http://books.google.com/books?id=JUcX4-WFxOYC&pg=PA132 (starting from "[Many of] of Lisbon's buildings were destroyed, including famous palaces and libraries, as well as most examples of Portugal's distinctive 16th-century Manueline architecture ...). However, the book is dated 2010, while this paragraph has been in the article since 2005, and has been gradually edited over time - while the text in the book corresponds to its current (2010) version. So most likely it is the book authors who have copied the text from here. -- Vmenkov ( talk) 04:45, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
-- JeffGBot ( talk) 21:58, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
In the infobox, why is the epicenter said to be Lisbon, when in fact it was over 200 miles away from that city? João Sousa ( talk) 09:29, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
The in popular culture section, I mean really, do we need it? Dbrodbeck ( talk) 23:22, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
This reddit thread discusses the offending sentence. On July 26, 2012, an anonymous user added the sentence "Most philosophers rejected that on the grounds that the Alfama, Lisbon's red-light district, suffered only minor damage." in the "Effect on society and philosophy" section, referring to claims of divine origins of the earthquake. The redditor Tychocelchuuu and I were unable to find any references to this claim, except for articles that use this wikipedia page as a source. I suspect then that this claim was manufactured by the anonymous commentator, and I will thus remove it. My apologies for not doing this 7 months ago when I discovered the error - I hope not too many others have been spreading this claim! Treating phimosis ( talk) 01:15, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
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In the second paragraph of "Earthquake and tsunami" it claims that a third of the population of Cadiz was killed. In the Spanish version of the same article it states that Cadiz was mostly protected by its walls, and mentions only 15 victims. Neither article is cited, but with this discrepancy, I feel claiming a third of the population was killed could be misleading. But other regions of the Andalusian coast, like Ayamonte, did suffer substantial population casualties.
79.155.193.99 ( talk) 08:44, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
@ Getsnoopy: please show which Oxford-English-speaking nation you think the 1755 Lisbon earthquake has strong ties with, or revert your change of English variety, which I believe contravenes MOS:RETAIN. -- DeFacto ( talk). 17:51, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
perhaps you could restore the status-quo version of the articleDone. I think you've misunderstood what MOS:TIES is referring to. The strong ties are established with nations, as @ Carlstak correctly pointed out. The EU is not a nation, but a set of nations. It's true that the 1755 earthquake does not have strong ties to the EU; Lisbon and all events which have happened in it have always had a direct connection with Portugal, not the EU. It's Portugal that has strong ties with the EU, and thus qualifies for strong ties under MOS:TIES. Getsnoopy ( talk) 05:37, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
@ Getsnoopy: yes, but the topic of this article is not related to any of the EU institutions. If it was, there would be no argument, as it would align with the example of " Institutions of the European Union" given in MOS:TIES. If we used your latest interpretation when following MOS:TIES, we would end up with every single article about every single topic related to every single country in the EU being considered to have "strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation" - which would clearly be nonsense. If that was the intention of MOS:TIES, it would surely say so explicitly. As we are not making any progress here, and you are offering increasingly more novel interpretations of MOS:TIES, perhaps this discussion should now be continued there. -- DeFacto ( talk). 06:57, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
MOS:RETAIN clearly applies here. Portugal is not an English-speaking nation, and WP:TIES therefore has no relevance in this case. Doremo ( talk) 14:40, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
"Portuguese towns in northern Africa were also affected by the earthquake, such as Ceuta and Mazagon"
Ceuta was already Spanish at the time of the earthquake. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.6.1.214 ( talk) 21:04, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
The 3rd para of section 'Earthquake and tsunami' states that "Shocks from the earthquake were felt throughout Europe as far as Finland and North Africa". I think 'North Africa' is a silly thing to say, given that the epicentre was virtually on the coast of North Africa. Whereas if the quake was felt in, say, Sudan, that would give a better feel for its range. Does anyone know from where this passage comes and/or to what it specifically refers? -- DoubleGrazing ( talk) 13:48, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
1755 Lisbon earthquake is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on July 16, 2005. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Masterful job Muriel! The combination of the historical and geological angles is truly superb. Wikipedia is lucky to have you here! -- Viajero 09:42, 3 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Hi, According to the American Heritage Dictionary (4th ed), tidal wave also means tsunami. Why use a fancy Japanese word when we have a plain English one? -- Viajero 21:00, 29 Oct 2003 (UTC)
To Muriel : ALthough we use the therm tsunami, the correct portuguese word is "maremoto." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.39.1.41 ( talk) 18:06, August 25, 2007 (UTC)
Tidal wave is to Tsunami as Monkey is to Ape. Frequent misuse does not make it right. The Librarian violently attacks anyone who refers to him as a monkey! -- Diamonddavej ( talk) 20:02, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Tidal wave is a term used incorrectly to describe a tsunami. Tidal waves are caused by the tides, tsunamis are created by other seismic activity
such as volcanoes and earthquakes. I think tsunami is also a wave created by a meteor strike but i'm unsure on this. Adam Smith 22/02/2009
The reference to Marquis of Pombal seems ambiguous:
Was he surpressing the Jesuits for hanging people? Or did he also use the earthquake as an excuse to surpress the Jesuits. (I assume the latter). Perhaps this could be disambiguated. Viajero 14:11, 2 Nov 2003 (UTC)
FYI, Susan Nieman treats the Lisbon quake and (on a few pages) Pombal in her Evil In Modern Thought. I have yet to read it, but in an as-yet-unpublished review of this book, Edward T. Oakes, SJ, writes that Pombal "even had a Jesuit preacher of the old Sodom-and-Gomorrah style arrested on trumped-up charges and executed an Enlightenment version of an auto-da-fé! For to his mind, it was precisely the old theological interpretation[namely, that disasters were punishments for the peoples' sins -KJJ] that was preventing the authorities from addressing a natural catastrophe on natural terms." -- KJJ 15:56, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
Tsunamis up to twenty meters in height swept the coast from North Africa to Finland and across the Atlantic to Martinique and Barbados. Finland? Look on a map; that's unreasonable. It should perhaps be Norway? -FredrikM
Wasn't there an auto de fé soon after the earthquake? This may be where the hanging priests allegation was referring to. Will have to look this up - many heretics were burnt, rather than hanged, in a typical auto-de-fé, anyhow. I don't know whether an auto-de-fé was called *specifically* to purge the city of the sins that had brought about divine punishment. Hasdrubal 15:41, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
Yes - I've found numerous references to the same... in fact I surfed to this page accidentally after reading about Auto de Fé and how they were conducted following the earthquake. I have updated the page with a paragraph under the Voltaire section as he makes direct reference to the acts in one of his contemporary writings.
Kinda puts the inane argument about hanging into perspective doesn't it. -- 62.173.76.218 10:59, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
For the individual who "found numerous references to the same" - I would be very interested in your references. The only references I could find were regarding Voltaire’s “Candide.” For your information, "Candide" was a satire - NOT a "report" on the alleged activities of the Catholic Church after the earthquake, as you state in the article. As Edward Peters writes in "Inquisition," (pp. 178-181) “A superficial knowledge of the inquisitions and Voltaire’s willingness to use them for generally satirical purposes is evident in his work until very late in his life…” and “The use of the inquisitions by Voltaire is simply the casual, routine depiction of the satirized 18th Century world, more comic and foolish than deadly. Even the satire of the Inquisition in Candide (1759) reveals no greater knowledge of or concern with the inquisitions than Voltaire’s ordinary reading in personal memoirs, travel literature and history.” Peters goes on to describe the scene in which Pangloss and Candide are arrested by an Inquisition officer because Pangloss seemed to be doubting original sin and free will. “These are positions that Voltaire himself condemned in the thought of Leibniz, and the official of the Inquisition thus serves Voltaire’s own purposes.”
Peters goes on: “One of Voltaire’s sources for the auto de fe appears to have been Dellon’s “Relation de l’inquisition de Goa,” which was published in 1688 and frequently reprinted during the 18th Century. However, the entire chapter is a jewel of Voltairean satire. From the mighty conclusions of the University of Coimbra, the deliberate trivializing of the offenses of the accused, the relentless focusing on the evident visual and ritual absurdity of the auto de fe by depriving it of any meaning other than visual….Voltaire introduces the topic of the Inquisition to comic literature.”
Voltaire hated any kind of religious persecution, and as Peters (and others) write, before 1761, the satirical tool he used to attack attitudes of bigotry and intolerance that he perceived in any human society, religious or non-religious, Christian or non-Christian, Catholic or Protestant, was the “non-specific inquisition.” After 1761, all of that changed. The public outcry over the injustice of Pombal’s treatment of the priest, Gabriel Malagrida, was enormous. A poem by Juan Luc Poggi entitled “The apotheos of Father Malagrida,” and a three act play by de Longchamp entitled “Malagrida,” were only a few works comdemning Pombal’s actions. Voltaire’s voice was one of the loudest. So, while Candide was a satire arising from no particular or specific case, as you seem to think, the “Sermon of Rabbi Akiba,” published about 2 months after Malagrida was killed, was very specific to Malagrida. In it, Voltaire, through the voice of a near-eastern Jew, indicted ALL forms of religious persecution, in particular the execution of Father Malagrida.
Therefore, I am removing your paragraph implying that Candide was some sort of news report on actual happenings after the Lisbon quake, a “reference to the response of the Catholic Church to the earthquake,” In addition, the auto de fe was not a “rite of the Catholic Inquisition in which those convicted of having caused the earthquake through their heresy accepted their sins in a form of public penance.” That statement is completely wrong in point of historical fact. I have spent a great deal of time and effort examining this issue, and it will take more than your simple misunderstanding of Voltaire’s satire to allege, with no proof whatsoever, that the Catholic Church burned anyone at the stake in Lisbon for "having caused the earthquake through their heresy" or, for any other reason! Polycarp7 16:48, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
I was logged in when I made the deletion, but by the time I hit the save button, my session timed out and it doesn’t show my name, only my IP address. polycarp7 10:19 12 April. Polycarp7 02:21, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Where is your source for the allegation that "priests roamed the city hanging people suspected of heresy on sight"? I say it never happened, and that this is a total distortion of what really happened in the aftermath of the tsunami of 1755. Since this allegation has been in the news recently, virtually plaguerized by many writers from CBS News to The Washington Post, it is important that you at least show some respected historical evidence for this allegation. Otherwise, it would seem that this is just another false charge that was leveled against the much maligned Jesuits of the time, and carried over into today.
There is no need to take the Lord's Name. Yes, I disagree vehemently with the allegation, but am asking that the writer cite their source - as it states clearly on the Edit Page: "Please cite your sources so others can check your work." I have been checking into the truth of this allegation, and have others doing so, yet can find nothing at all. It is like trying to prove a negative. I assert, then, that it was simply made up, and never happened. I am not going to change it - I am simply going to leave it for all to read, that the writer cited no source, because no source exists except within the writer's mind.
"Was he surpressing the Jesuits for hanging people? Or did he also use the earthquake as an excuse to surpress the Jesuits. (I assume the latter). Perhaps this could be disambiguated. Viajero 14:11, 2 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Rather than question the truth of this preposterous claim, you answered the question, giving credence to the unattributed allegation, as though it were true. I am still asking for a credible source for this allegation, posted on this site since October of 2003, with no source cited. Theresa (user polycarp7).
FWIW,
About.com has a picture of hangings in the aftermath of the earthquake, with the commentary Signs of crime, disorder, and disease are evident, and criminals are being hanged under the supervision of soldiers and priests. I suspect that the crimes involved were looting and suchlike rather than heresy, however.
Mark
1 03:46, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Since it appears I have been criticized for not changing the 1755 Lisbon article, I will do two things:
I'm a little confused... Although it appears that the original claim that priests went around hanging those who may have angered god appears not to be strongly enough substantiated, the current version of the article makes no mention of the priests who were (according to citation) involved in the executions, and further, it claims that the executions were specifically for looting, a point which I have not seen substantiated in the citations. If indeed the article originally contained a bias, the correct procedure for correcting it is not to insert bias in the other direction. Can someone unburdened by religious affiliation to the issue at hand please comment on this matter based on the historical data? -- Gmaxwell 23:31, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
After the "hanging priests" controversy began, I started looking into this issue — I in fact posted the image of the hanging. The two priests in the image appear to be delivering last rites (one holds a cross, the other, possibly, a prayer book or Bible). I was completely unable to find any support whatsoever for the allegation that priests assigned responsibility or exacted arbitrary vengeance in the wake of the disaster (and believe me, I looked for it!). Though the reference to the 34 hanged looters did not come from me (and I wish it were footnoted, so I could check it out myself), it is in keeping with other observations and accounts, notably from English travellers, who mentioned the construction of gallows to deter looting. You note a bias "in the other direction," and I'm curious what seems biased to you now. I myself feel the article is balanced at this point. Sandover 22:44, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)
This article is really superb and if only someone would add some references, it would imho be ready to be a featured article-- XmarkX 14:28, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I've now added a few references, at least ones with which I am familiar and which are reliable. There aren't many easy references for this particular subject. If someone could post a few more links, I am sure readers would be grateful.
This is article is so broad-ranged and wide-shouldered, it's impossible to source everything in it. But it's a delight to read, because it so succinctly combines many different points of view (including the historical, philosophical, religious, scientific and political). Very readable, too; part of it flows like a thriller.
Yes, it was a diamond-in-the-rough when I and a few others began editing on it in late December 2004, after the Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami. It's been nominated before, but I think it's time has come to be actually be a Featured article.
Below are a few souvenirs of some ancient edit wars. Most of what people are arguing about here is now deleted completely. Sandover 05:05, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I removed the following section:
Because the darker skin theory is crap: Portuguese were maryying and having children with the natives from colonies ever since the XIV century - nothing to do with the earthquake. I wonder were is said that portuguese are darker than Spanish - it is certainly not popular thought since colour is not really a thing one thinks about in this part of the world... The idea of making a parallel with the earthquake and the decline of the Portuguese Empire is tempting but incorrect. The Empire was already going down the drain, since the time Portugal and Spain were a Personal Union under the Habsburgs and the Habsburgs were quarrelling with the rest of Europe. Actually the Pombal government was a peak of the empire's fortunes. muriel@pt 10:44, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)
This article is terrific! -
Pedro 11:50, 5 May 2005 (UTC)
"Destruction was generalized". Is it English? – Kpalion (talk) 23:08, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Yes it is. English English, in fact. Sandover 01:44, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I don't know enough to have an opinion on the importance of Kant's natural-philosophy explanations of the Lisbon quake on the evolution of seismology -- though it seems reasonable to call them "forerunners" as very early and semi-scientific/non-supernatural explanations. If it helps, my source for this claim was Walter Benjamin's children's-radio broadcast text on the quake. -- Rbellin| Talk 03:27, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
If Walter Benjamin says Kant is a forerunner in seismology, well, I'd go with that. But if Benjamin only talks about the nature of Kant's speculations on gases (which are appropriate in this entry, but only really to set up Kant's fascination with the subject), let's leave the edit as is, and not call him a "forerunner" for this work. I feel it is more accurate for the article to say the science of seismology developed out of observations made by forerunners like the Jesuits, who took notes and made observations on the order of Pombal...that's all very well-established. Sandover 03:37, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
This is Benjamin's passage on Kant and the quake:
I'll leave it up to other editors whether any of this belongs in the article. -- Rbellin| Talk 04:26, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The problem with emphasising Kant's innovation in his approach is that scientific/atomistic accounts of earthquakes date back at least at least to the Epicureans (Kant is known to have read Lucretius, 1st century BC, who offers theories in book 6 of his de rerum natura). Perhaps the significance of Kant's work needs more qualification. 86.180.8.152 ( talk) 15:13, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
For those who are trying to track down the controversy mentioned in the Wikipedia Quarto, here are the two parts of the article by Theresa E. Carpinelli on the issue: Part One, Part Two. JesseW 5 July 2005 22:03 (UTC)
I'm no geologist, but it looks to me like Lisbon is pretty close to the border between the Eurasian and African plates. See Image:Tectonic_plates.png. — Ливай | Ⓣ 01:15, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
Great article! One line in the header I would have liked to see more of, though, is the claim that the quake disrupted Portugal's colonial ambitions. This strikes me as entirely plausible, but I'd like to see a little more explanation of why (disruption of economy? Loss of fleet?) and what stage these colonial ambitions were at; since it's in the header, it would nice to have a bit of follow-up. Again, nice work and a very interesting read... -- Dvyost 23:57, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
The UK government of the time voted some money for the relief of the situation. Did others governments/groups also do so- and were there earlier examples of international disaster relief?
I was never able to find out how long after the earthquake the tsunami struck, but I know it wasn't "several" minutes (as in five or ten minutes after the quake). Was it 30 minutes? 40 minutes? 50 minutes? I just don't know. But it was a decent interval, and that's the origin of the awkward "tens of minutes" phrase. While I know "several minutes after" reads better, it reinforces the false assumption that the tsunami happened almost immediately after the quake. Sandover 19:25, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
Excellent article, editors, no wonder it's a Featured Article! I have just passed this article for inclusion in Wikipedia:Version 0.5 as part of the Featured Article review.
While this article is in very good shape, I do notice a few things that could be done to improve it.
Again, keep up the good work! - Runningonbrains 22:46, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Good article, but I find one citation of a book therein that seems to not exist. The Charles B. Brooks book from 1994 titled: "Disaster at Lisbon, The Great Earthquake of 1755" is not found anywhere in my search except for a short listing at Barnes and Noble web site. The publisher was Brooks House, which I also do not find. Sounds like a self published book that only the Library of Congress would have a copy of. And no, I did not find the book listed at Abebooks.com, either. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Handel8 ( talk • contribs).
That is all very nice, but for the rest of us, the book does not exist for all intents and purposes. If the press run of this was very small and has no ISBN, that indicates to me it was purely a vanity publication. A little like you or me writing a book and getting someone local to print a hundred crude copies to be sold at speaking events. If the book is as good as you say, the least the author could do at this point would be to offer it through Amazon as a download, which they do for many books that are out of print. I for one would be interested in the contents of this book. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.29.40.164 ( talk • contribs).
Of a Lisbon population of 275,000, up to 90,000 were killed?!
The total population of Lisbon in 1755 is estimated in about 100 000 habitants. [2]
This numbers came from where?! Need source.
GPC 13:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Only a fool can believe in such numbers. The correct number lies between 10 000 to 15 000. Ponder the numbers carefully.
This error will persist for a long time as it continues to reproduce... The latest reproduction I know is from ENCYCLOPÆDIA BRITANNICA ALMANAC 2008 wich states Magnittude: 8.7 (fair enough) victims: 70 000 (today 10 000 to 15 000 is not "a lot" so I guess people just come out with a number that impresses enough, I don't know. But I know this: it's just a shameless lucky number that they throw in the air. GC —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.240.116.61 ( talk) 21:43, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Read this: They say the estimated 3,000 dead in the grave were victims of the earthquake that devastated Lisbon in 1755, and that this is the first mass grave of its kind ever found in the Portuguese capital ( http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2007-04-28-massgrave_N.htm)
Now think about where to buried 90 000... Don't you think that many mass graves will exist. The more you think about it the more you'll see how ridiculous are those childish numbers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.240.116.61 ( talk) 21:49, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
I'm currently involved in a discusssion at Talk:Basel earthquake over what the article should be called. I argue that based on the literature, and articles like this one, it should be called 1356 Basel earthquake (the original title before it was moved to Basel earthquake). Has there been discussion here on what the name of this featured article should be? Any input over there would be appreciated, as well as any help to expand the article. Thanks. Carcharoth 02:36, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
First, the coma and the point are decimal separators. For easy reading, one must use a space not a coma nor a point. See BIPM or ISO.
About the population of Lisbon in 1755: Taking 60 000 in 1422 and 85 000 in 1528 we get about 176 000. In 1755 the population of Lisbon was about 176 000. The tragedy (earthquake, tsunami and fire) kill about 12 000. (I am searching suitable web references. You shoud do it too. Harvard is a good place to start (they have many original documents about it). It's not easy. As it's not easy to find that the name of Alves dos Reis was in fact Alves Reis because everybody puts "dos". And I mean everybody. And yet...) These are the numbers. All the rest is imagination and blind bets.
To discart the 275 000 as the population number, it is enough to look at the present numbers of cities population. (Not even Porto as that population [3] ) To discart numbers of victims like 90 000 it is enough to have comum sense. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gil Costa ( talk • contribs).
Apparently the author of this famous phrase was D. Pedro de Almeida, Marquês de Alorna!
7 Avisos, decretos reais e providências
Na sequência do terramoto o governo português tomou de imediato uma série de medidas com vista a minorar os inúmeros problemas surgidos, cujo pragmatismo está bem evidenciado na célebre afirmação: 'enterrar os mortos, cuidar dos vivos e fechar os portos', proferida por D. Pedro de Almeida, Marquês de Alorna, mas com frequência atribuída ao Secretario de Estado dos Negócios Estrangeiros e da Guerra, Sebastião José de Carvalho e Melo, futuro Marquês de Pombal.
The entry on The Book of the Damned claims a perhaps supernatural disappearance of several hundred people from a shelter, found in 2006. It appears to be a reference to this [4], however the story is a rather more straightforward discovery of a mass grave. Can anyone shed any light? MartinSFSA ( talk) 13:30, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Intro states ' Geologists today estimate the Lisbon earthquake approached magnitude 9 on the Richter scale...'. Should there be a reference for this? Especially as the page on the Richter magnitude scale says the effective limit of measurement is about 6.8. 84.203.76.74 ( talk) 22:04, 11 October 2009 (UTC)
A group of researchers associated with the University of Évora has been developing for the past 5 years a virtual recreation of Lisbon just before the 1755 earthquake (a project of virtual archeology), with several links to further documentation related to the architecture and culture of Baroque Lisbon, as well as pointers to more research done around the earthquake which is not mentioned in this Wiki page. This link has featured on this page on the past, but due to successive revisions, it was deleted.
I'll leave it here on the discussion page as a proposal for inclusion: http://lisbon-pre-1755-earthquake.org/
-- Gwyneth Llewelyn ( talk) 19:03, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
Interestingly, at least one paragraph of this article appears practically verbatim in a published book: The Illustrated History of Natural Disasters By Jan Kozák, Vladimir Cermák: http://books.google.com/books?id=JUcX4-WFxOYC&pg=PA132 (starting from "[Many of] of Lisbon's buildings were destroyed, including famous palaces and libraries, as well as most examples of Portugal's distinctive 16th-century Manueline architecture ...). However, the book is dated 2010, while this paragraph has been in the article since 2005, and has been gradually edited over time - while the text in the book corresponds to its current (2010) version. So most likely it is the book authors who have copied the text from here. -- Vmenkov ( talk) 04:45, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
-- JeffGBot ( talk) 21:58, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
In the infobox, why is the epicenter said to be Lisbon, when in fact it was over 200 miles away from that city? João Sousa ( talk) 09:29, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
The in popular culture section, I mean really, do we need it? Dbrodbeck ( talk) 23:22, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
This reddit thread discusses the offending sentence. On July 26, 2012, an anonymous user added the sentence "Most philosophers rejected that on the grounds that the Alfama, Lisbon's red-light district, suffered only minor damage." in the "Effect on society and philosophy" section, referring to claims of divine origins of the earthquake. The redditor Tychocelchuuu and I were unable to find any references to this claim, except for articles that use this wikipedia page as a source. I suspect then that this claim was manufactured by the anonymous commentator, and I will thus remove it. My apologies for not doing this 7 months ago when I discovered the error - I hope not too many others have been spreading this claim! Treating phimosis ( talk) 01:15, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
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In the second paragraph of "Earthquake and tsunami" it claims that a third of the population of Cadiz was killed. In the Spanish version of the same article it states that Cadiz was mostly protected by its walls, and mentions only 15 victims. Neither article is cited, but with this discrepancy, I feel claiming a third of the population was killed could be misleading. But other regions of the Andalusian coast, like Ayamonte, did suffer substantial population casualties.
79.155.193.99 ( talk) 08:44, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
@ Getsnoopy: please show which Oxford-English-speaking nation you think the 1755 Lisbon earthquake has strong ties with, or revert your change of English variety, which I believe contravenes MOS:RETAIN. -- DeFacto ( talk). 17:51, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
perhaps you could restore the status-quo version of the articleDone. I think you've misunderstood what MOS:TIES is referring to. The strong ties are established with nations, as @ Carlstak correctly pointed out. The EU is not a nation, but a set of nations. It's true that the 1755 earthquake does not have strong ties to the EU; Lisbon and all events which have happened in it have always had a direct connection with Portugal, not the EU. It's Portugal that has strong ties with the EU, and thus qualifies for strong ties under MOS:TIES. Getsnoopy ( talk) 05:37, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
@ Getsnoopy: yes, but the topic of this article is not related to any of the EU institutions. If it was, there would be no argument, as it would align with the example of " Institutions of the European Union" given in MOS:TIES. If we used your latest interpretation when following MOS:TIES, we would end up with every single article about every single topic related to every single country in the EU being considered to have "strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation" - which would clearly be nonsense. If that was the intention of MOS:TIES, it would surely say so explicitly. As we are not making any progress here, and you are offering increasingly more novel interpretations of MOS:TIES, perhaps this discussion should now be continued there. -- DeFacto ( talk). 06:57, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
MOS:RETAIN clearly applies here. Portugal is not an English-speaking nation, and WP:TIES therefore has no relevance in this case. Doremo ( talk) 14:40, 1 May 2020 (UTC)
"Portuguese towns in northern Africa were also affected by the earthquake, such as Ceuta and Mazagon"
Ceuta was already Spanish at the time of the earthquake. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.6.1.214 ( talk) 21:04, 24 May 2020 (UTC)
The 3rd para of section 'Earthquake and tsunami' states that "Shocks from the earthquake were felt throughout Europe as far as Finland and North Africa". I think 'North Africa' is a silly thing to say, given that the epicentre was virtually on the coast of North Africa. Whereas if the quake was felt in, say, Sudan, that would give a better feel for its range. Does anyone know from where this passage comes and/or to what it specifically refers? -- DoubleGrazing ( talk) 13:48, 31 May 2020 (UTC)